I wouldn't mind the Knicks going after Bazz Muhammad at a similar price. His defense sucks but he is young and could make a nice reclamation project.
For $5 million a year, the Knicks should have resigned him. That is cheap enough that he was worth it. Plus we could have traded Lee and saved cap space. But I do agree that Dotson looks like he is ready for 10 minutes a game and we resigned Ron Baker, which I still think was a bad idea unless Baker's shot has improved. Give Baker and Dotson on the roster either lee or holiday had to go and I guess it was easier to let holiday walk.
SocraticBallin22 wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:With the way Dotson has played, I am ok with this.
Dotson is younger, more upside at this point in their careers.
I liked Holiday, but he's not really a 3 and his best position is 2. With Lee and Dotson, I don't think we really needed Holiday.I really think with some work, Dotson can fill a 15 to 20 minute role for the team next year.
Good 3 point shot.
Above average athleticism for defense and some slashes to basket.
Would play well in a high tempo offense.
I like Dotson, too, as a prospect, and believe he's an NBA player, but to think he can match Holiday's production last year is wrong. He's still raw, can't really handle the ball at all--needs to work on skills. Holiday was a two way player who was our instant offense off the bench. I'm going to miss him and his production and professionalism will not be easily replaced.
I liked Holiday, and the money he got from the Bulls was not outrageous.
Kind of wish we had been able to move Lee on draft day and kept Holiday.
Wonder if not signing him was really influenced by Dotson and what they've seen from him in practice and the games?
I don't think he's a game changer, I'm quite happy keeping the cap space for future salary dumps
Remember we were all disappointed when Derrick Williams and Langston Galloway didn't resign? I like Holiday but he won't have a major impact on the franchise either way next season. Good luck to him.
Between this deal and ndour I think Knicks are trying to scrounge as much as they can for Hill
I would be fine w that. As a general matter I'm skeptical about FAs but I think hill plays the right way and would be a good mentor for Frank.
How does Langston Galloway get 21 mm And Holiday9?
Disappointing. Specially for the price. Makes no sense as he was exactly what the organization claims they are looking for. Two way young pro player who was gaining confidence, experienced, showed consistency, played well in pressure spots and career was on an incline. Smh
how can anyone be disappointed that we did not keep Holiday? He did what, exactly? Help us win 33 games? He is 28 and finally had a decent year because he was on a pathetic team that had to get points from somewhere?
He occupies a roster spot and if anyone thinks he can be part of the long term solution of this team, then I guess that's a difference of opinion.
... as if there's no room on a team for Dotson and Holiday.
in anycase, im not gonna sweat this. Holiday is good.
He's 28. Don't players usually stop improving at that age?
The question is not about if he is useful. The question is that his contract is very reasonable and we could have traded him for something. His brother is at NO, I am positive that he would want the team to trade for him when the time is right later.
Not every player has to be useful for us to resign him, right? I think Knicks missed the shot here.
Chandler wrote:Between this deal and ndour I think Knicks are trying to scrounge as much as they can for HillI would be fine w that. As a general matter I'm skeptical about FAs but I think hill plays the right way and would be a good mentor for Frank.
Honestly, I would rather have Rondo with Collison second. Hill is constantly hurt and approaching that age. Rondo's game perfectly suits what the Knicks would need, while his attitude in rebuilding situations earnestly sucks. I know Rondo is 31 but his game translates well into lasting another 3-4 years or so of being solid. Idk. I dont think there is a perfect PG candidate out there in FA, and the guys who might fit well like Knight, Bledsoe, the swing PGs who Jeff likes so much for his system are only available via trade.
mlby1215 wrote: The question is not about if he is useful. The question is that his contract is very reasonable and we could have traded him for something. His brother is at NO, I am positive that he would want the team to trade for him when the time is right later. Not every player has to be useful for us to resign him, right? I think Knicks missed the shot here.
If a team really wanted him they could've just signed him without giving up anything. So I'm not understanding the sign him for trade purposes theory.
Welpee wrote:mlby1215 wrote: The question is not about if he is useful. The question is that his contract is very reasonable and we could have traded him for something. His brother is at NO, I am positive that he would want the team to trade for him when the time is right later. Not every player has to be useful for us to resign him, right? I think Knicks missed the shot here.
If a team really wanted him they could've just signed him without giving up anything. So I'm not understanding the sign him for trade purposes theory.
A team like the Pelicans are crunched for money and have nothing more than the mid-level exception to fill out 8 or so roster spots. It stands to reason that if we approached them with a sign and trade opportunity for Justin-which he'd be interested in since his brother is there- they could have offloaded a useless contract and a 2nd round pick for him, to preserve their exception while also adding a rotation player.
Take Quincy Pondexter for example. He's an expiring contract, roughly being paid what Justin will this upcoming season and has not played in 2 years. It stands to reason that his career is likely over but remains with the team due to the fact that his contract is fully guaranteed. Why couldn't we take him and two 2nd round picks from the Pelicans? It hardly impacts our cap space and we wouldn't need to sign anyone this offseason anyway. Little moves like that ultimately pay big dividends but the Knicks never make them. And it is why when the opportunity does present itself to trade for a player, we're always having to surrender our own future assets since we did not have the foresight to collect them from other teams, much like the Sixers and Celtics have.
yellowboy90 wrote:I would've kept holiday at that price and traded Lee out west.
Of course because you have common sense. I don't have any confidence this franchise can get anything right. They have no vision at all. Is Holiday that much of a drop off from Lee? No if he is one at all but you save cap space and protect yourself from Lee getting injured, and at his age he would become another immovable contract.
franco12 wrote:how can anyone be disappointed that we did not keep Holiday? He did what, exactly? Help us win 33 games? He is 28 and finally had a decent year because he was on a pathetic team that had to get points from somewhere?He occupies a roster spot and if anyone thinks he can be part of the long term solution of this team, then I guess that's a difference of opinion.
It's not a matter of keeping him. It's a matter of using him to get other assets that we couldbuse to build this team. What makes the Knicks a poorly run organization are the moves they don't make as much as the moves that they do. Time and time again, we either develop a cheap, useful asset and time and time again, we simply let them walk for nothing in return.
Look at Jeremy Lin. Look at Landry Fields. Look at Chris Copeland. Ecetera. We all knew heading into the offseason that we were not going to keep those guys and did not have the cap flexibility to add anyone of consequence via free agency, so why not flip them for a contract that ran a year longer and a 2nd round pick? We've got bookoo money and could easily eat that expense to build a cache of those assets. Individually, they might not be much but when you start combining them they could produce real difference makers (presuming you don't hit on actually drafting a player). Case and point, Courtney Lee was traded for four 2nd rounder picks from MEM to CHA back in 2015. He might not light up a stat sheet bit he can be a starter in this league if you have all the right pieces.
So just a little forward thinking from the Knicks would be nice. You never know, when all this comes together, we might be in the market for a Courtney Lee but might be too capped out to get him. Being able to make little moves like that without sacrifice homegrown assets ultimately can make the difference between winning and losing a game in the playoffs.
Jmpasq wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I would've kept holiday at that price and traded Lee out west.
Of course because you have common sense. I don't have any confidence this franchise can get anything right. They have no vision at all. Is Holiday that much of a drop off from Lee? No if he is one at all but you save cap space and protect yourself from Lee getting injured, and at his age he would become another immovable contract.
Yes, yes he is
Just when you thought the Lopez trade couldn't look any worse
Rookie wrote:Just when you thought the Lopez trade couldn't look any worse
So he traded lopez and Grant (2 solid players) for 2 one yr rentals, and used the extra cap space to sign NOAH..Your absolutely right..My god, we are soo loss
knicks1248 wrote:Rookie wrote:Just when you thought the Lopez trade couldn't look any worse
So he traded lopez and Grant (2 solid players) for 2 one yr rentals, and used the extra cap space to sign NOAH..Your absolutely right..My god, we are soo loss
I hated the moves at the time. Awful, and Phil should have not gotten the last two years- not only was he a bad FO exec, he was a thief!
I think they are expecting to give Dotson good mins next season as well as Baker mins at the 2G spot.
