Knicks · This is turning into the worst off season ever for the knicks (page 3)
reub wrote:Melo is going to have a terrific year so if we don't give him away for scraps we're going to be a decent team. We're never going to be able to tank with the core that we have.
that's my point, we will not be a 20 win team with the talent we have, so why even fathom a tank job
knicks1248 wrote:reub wrote:Melo is going to have a terrific year so if we don't give him away for scraps we're going to be a decent team. We're never going to be able to tank with the core that we have.that's my point, we will not be a 20 win team with the talent we have, so why even fathom a tank job
I can't believe I'm actually hoping for Rondo. Or even better Teodosic.
#toogoodtotank
That, and Signing Chris Bosh for 20mil a year.
Teodosic makes it interesting but I'd say that if we want a guy to show Frank the ropes, the NBA ropes, a euro, even a great one is not the way we might want to go.
Wish Pablo had decided to come back. He has the contrast of both sides of the style of ball and the cultural aspects. Even Rubio, but kind of sucks to pay a guy to replace you.
knicks1248 wrote:reub wrote:Melo is going to have a terrific year so if we don't give him away for scraps we're going to be a decent team. We're never going to be able to tank with the core that we have.that's my point, we will not be a 20 win team with the talent we have, so why even fathom a tank job
The issue is that you can't attract top FAs to a perennial lottery team without badly overpaying. You have to gradually build a strong team first. There's nothing Mills or anyone else could do right to get very good FAs on reasonable deals. Even Knicks1248 if he was GM couldn't pull that off right now. There's no shortcut.
Bonn1997 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:reub wrote:Melo is going to have a terrific year so if we don't give him away for scraps we're going to be a decent team. We're never going to be able to tank with the core that we have.that's my point, we will not be a 20 win team with the talent we have, so why even fathom a tank job
The issue is that you can't attract top FAs to a perennial lottery team without badly overpaying. You have to gradually build a strong team first. There's nothing Mills or anyone else could do right to get very good FAs on reasonable deals. Even Knicks1248 if he was GM couldn't pull that off right now. There's no shortcut.
To some degree your right, but as you can see the window is 3 yrs, rebuild, retool, or potential contender, that's how many yrs before you start all over.
We don't have multiple 1st round picks in any of the next 3 drafts like the kings had, or other lottery teams. so when you say your building through the draft with only 1 pick every yr, it doesn't make a ounce of sense, because that pick can easily be a dud
unfortunately the deals that have been handed out to the likes of Hill/Teague/collinson are reasonable considering the cap. Some of us were saying melo's contract would be avg by his 4th yr.
I would have at least seek out a sign and trade for guys like Haywood//Paul G types.. to accelerate a rebuild even if it cost me a future pick or 2, at least I know what im getting
when you look at all this all stars bouncing from the team that drafted them for a better shot at a title, it's really narrow minded to think your draft picks are going to re-sign with you after yrs of losing.
the knicks are offering 1 yr contracts, that's why the haven't been able to attract anyone
knicks1248 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:reub wrote:Melo is going to have a terrific year so if we don't give him away for scraps we're going to be a decent team. We're never going to be able to tank with the core that we have.that's my point, we will not be a 20 win team with the talent we have, so why even fathom a tank job
The issue is that you can't attract top FAs to a perennial lottery team without badly overpaying. You have to gradually build a strong team first. There's nothing Mills or anyone else could do right to get very good FAs on reasonable deals. Even Knicks1248 if he was GM couldn't pull that off right now. There's no shortcut.To some degree your right, but as you can see the window is 3 yrs, rebuild, retool, or potential contender, that's how many yrs before you start all over.
We don't have multiple 1st round picks in any of the next 3 drafts like the kings had, or other lottery teams. so when you say your building through the draft with only 1 pick every yr, it doesn't make a ounce of sense, because that pick can easily be a dud
unfortunately the deals that have been handed out to the likes of Hill/Teague/collinson are reasonable considering the cap. Some of us were saying melo's contract would be avg by his 4th yr.
I would have at least seek out a sign and trade for guys like Haywood//Paul G types.. to accelerate a rebuild even if it cost me a future pick or 2, at least I know what im getting
when you look at all this all stars bouncing from the team that drafted them for a better shot at a title, it's really narrow minded to think your draft picks are going to re-sign with you after yrs of losing.
the knicks are offering 1 yr contracts, that's why the haven't been able to attract anyone
Thing is we have to find out just how good the young talent we have actually is. There's no getting around the fact that this team is not a prime FA destination at this stage. The Knicks have to develop from within and look to add relatively young talent in free agency and via trade. Only if this team can grow into a winner will it become a viable Top FA destination.
The process isn't Tanking! The process is development and collecting the right kind of players.
Nalod wrote:I can't think of a worse mentor for frank than Rondo. That would make it "The worst season EVER"......
That, and Signing Chris Bosh for 20mil a year.Teodosic makes it interesting but I'd say that if we want a guy to show Frank the ropes, the NBA ropes, a euro, even a great one is not the way we might want to go.
Wish Pablo had decided to come back. He has the contrast of both sides of the style of ball and the cultural aspects. Even Rubio, but kind of sucks to pay a guy to replace you.
I was talking about this with my friend over beers and fireworks last night. Denver seems like they have too much talent on that roster and one piece that seems expendable is Jameer Nelson. I think we could get him for next to nothing, his contract runs through next year at 4.5 mil and he would be a perfect mentor for a young point guard. After his contract runs out in two years, you take the training wheels off and turn Ntilikina loose on the league!
knicks1248 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:reub wrote:Melo is going to have a terrific year so if we don't give him away for scraps we're going to be a decent team. We're never going to be able to tank with the core that we have.that's my point, we will not be a 20 win team with the talent we have, so why even fathom a tank job
The issue is that you can't attract top FAs to a perennial lottery team without badly overpaying. You have to gradually build a strong team first. There's nothing Mills or anyone else could do right to get very good FAs on reasonable deals. Even Knicks1248 if he was GM couldn't pull that off right now. There's no shortcut.To some degree your right, but as you can see the window is 3 yrs, rebuild, retool, or potential contender, that's how many yrs before you start all over.
We don't have multiple 1st round picks in any of the next 3 drafts like the kings had, or other lottery teams. so when you say your building through the draft with only 1 pick every yr, it doesn't make a ounce of sense, because that pick can easily be a dud
unfortunately the deals that have been handed out to the likes of Hill/Teague/collinson are reasonable considering the cap. Some of us were saying melo's contract would be avg by his 4th yr.
I would have at least seek out a sign and trade for guys like Haywood//Paul G types.. to accelerate a rebuild even if it cost me a future pick or 2, at least I know what im getting
when you look at all this all stars bouncing from the team that drafted them for a better shot at a title, it's really narrow minded to think your draft picks are going to re-sign with you after yrs of losing.
the knicks are offering 1 yr contracts, that's why the haven't been able to attract anyone
Sign and trade with what? Easy to throw out these concepts but we a bit thin on tradable talent, cap space, and no abundance of picks.
Why?
We did stupid kind of shyt your always expounding the team to do. Starphuched into giving a pick for Bargnani to preserve some thin momentum after 54 win season. When your core includes Tyson, Shump and JR your screwed. Blame phil for not getting enough in return but I doubt thats a solid concept because of who and how they played the game. JR was a clown, shump a locker room clown, Tyson disgruntled...>>Blah blah.
Your talkning that we should be making trades with assets we don't have. Rebuilding with an empty cupboard is not easy. Nets at least cleaned out the contracts while they tread water, but they are a last place team so lets not look to them as any great rebuild. They are crawling from the wreckage the right way. We will too.
It will suck. Knowing this does not make it easier.
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://mobile.twitter.com/Al_Iannazzone/status/882714371276886017/actions
Click here to view the Tweet
knicks1248 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:reub wrote:Melo is going to have a terrific year so if we don't give him away for scraps we're going to be a decent team. We're never going to be able to tank with the core that we have.that's my point, we will not be a 20 win team with the talent we have, so why even fathom a tank job
The issue is that you can't attract top FAs to a perennial lottery team without badly overpaying. You have to gradually build a strong team first. There's nothing Mills or anyone else could do right to get very good FAs on reasonable deals. Even Knicks1248 if he was GM couldn't pull that off right now. There's no shortcut.To some degree your right, but as you can see the window is 3 yrs, rebuild, retool, or potential contender, that's how many yrs before you start all over.
We don't have multiple 1st round picks in any of the next 3 drafts like the kings had, or other lottery teams. so when you say your building through the draft with only 1 pick every yr, it doesn't make a ounce of sense, because that pick can easily be a dudunfortunately the deals that have been handed out to the likes of Hill/Teague/collinson are reasonable considering the cap. Some of us were saying melo's contract would be avg by his 4th yr.
I would have at least seek out a sign and trade for guys like Haywood//Paul G types.. to accelerate a rebuild even if it cost me a future pick or 2, at least I know what im getting
when you look at all this all stars bouncing from the team that drafted them for a better shot at a title, it's really narrow minded to think your draft picks are going to re-sign with you after yrs of losing.
the knicks are offering 1 yr contracts, that's why the haven't been able to attract anyone
Cap space can be used to take back bad contracts and get picks. Vets can be traded for picks. Give Mills more than five minutes. George is decent but overrated and probably going to be overpaid soon. He'll be a 10 year vet in his 30s by the time the team is good anyway. The timing wouldn't make sense with the rest of our core. Hayward? How would you have convinced him to come here over Boston?!
You're right the team needs to be on a good, winning trajectory by the time KP and Willy are FAs, but there is no short-cut to that.
reub wrote:If we sign Rondo we can salvage this ridiculous free agency season. Melo is going to have a terrific year post-Philand Rondo will make everyone better around him. Add in Frank and Dotson, plus an improving KP, Willy and Baker and we can make the playoffs and continue on our way to greatness.
No, Trade Melo to someone in the East, they'll give us some serious picks. As it is Lebron is like thanks yall for the clear path to the Finals. At least with Melo, Cavs competitor might get to Conf Finals.
Cartman718 wrote:reub wrote:If we sign Rondo we can salvage this ridiculous free agency season. Melo is going to have a terrific year post-Philand Rondo will make everyone better around him. Add in Frank and Dotson, plus an improving KP, Willy and Baker and we can make the playoffs and continue on our way to greatness.No, Trade Melo to someone in the East, they'll give us some serious picks.
Who?
Third tier players are getting max contracts! You only pay max money to first tier players or if you already have a championship caliber team then you can overspend.
ex... How could we even consider paying Jrue Holiday that much money? He is a third tier player at best.
You tighten the purse strings and find the most bang for your buck reqardless of your needs, to build assets and possible trading chips for future trades. We are not gonna be competitive for at least two years so why try to overpay for positions that we need filled? Play our rookies get great cheap contracts for role players or rookies/2-3 years players and let them play. I don't get why people wanna trade O'Quinn so badly hes a halfway decent player who hustles on a great contract. If we can get a decent pick for Lee I'm all for it or even picking up horrible two year contracts for high draft picks in return but only for two years and nothing after that.
Knicks wants to win but no FA wants to sign here because they don't like here and/or they have no confidence.
Tanking teams would keep a solid player, such as Holiday, in a cheap contract then later trade him to his another brother Jrue, for example.
Indeed, tanking is good for Knicks but it is bad for Mills. It will be on his record as GM. One day people would use something like "LOL, this Mills went 80-166 too!! He sucked!" to against him. So why would he want to care about the long-term benefit of Knicks? He has no reason to do that.
mlby1215 wrote:If they really want to tank, they should have already traded Lee.I think they are trying to trade Lee. The urgency for that may have lessened with Holiday leaving. I don't think they were chasing free agents this year. Reports are they are telling agents that they want young guys willing to sign short deals.Knicks wants to win but no FA wants to sign here because they don't like here and/or they have no confidence.
Tanking teams would keep a solid player, such as Holiday, in a cheap contract then later trade him to his another brother Jrue, for example.
Indeed, tanking is good for Knicks but it is bad for Mills. It will be on his record as GM. One day people would use something like "LOL, this Mills went 80-166 too!! He sucked!" to against him. So why would he want to care about the long-term benefit of Knicks? He has no reason to do that.
CrushAlot wrote:mlby1215 wrote:If they really want to tank, they should have already traded Lee.I think they are trying to trade Lee. The urgency for that may have lessened with Holiday leaving. I don't think they were chasing free agents this year. Reports are they are telling agents that they want young guys willing to sign short deals.Knicks wants to win but no FA wants to sign here because they don't like here and/or they have no confidence.
Tanking teams would keep a solid player, such as Holiday, in a cheap contract then later trade him to his another brother Jrue, for example.
Indeed, tanking is good for Knicks but it is bad for Mills. It will be on his record as GM. One day people would use something like "LOL, this Mills went 80-166 too!! He sucked!" to against him. So why would he want to care about the long-term benefit of Knicks? He has no reason to do that.
smackeddog wrote:Worst off season ever? Think that one where we landed Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley's contracts were infinitely worse! The one where we traded ewing for cap hell was pretty brutal too. Oh and the one where we traded Cambuslang and a are stoudamire in their primes for McDyess. And the one where we traded 2 unprotected firsts (turned into Noah and Aldridge) for eddy curry and signed Jerome James to the max MLESo far this is a great offseason. No long deals for players who arent moving the needle. Setting up for long looks at young players. We have some vets that will play valuable roles (defense) if they stay in Lee, Noah and possibly KOQ. We can see what KP looks like as the primary scorer. We can see how Baker looks in a free offense with Hornecek to put what he wants in place. We can see if Kuz takes a step forward, or if Dotson or another young guy steps forward and turns into a player. We can keep cap space and use it to add assets when some team gets desperate and we should have a great pick next year and a very flexible roster.
So far Knicks are doing everything a smart franchise would do.