Knicks · Melo rumors heating up? (page 45)
fitzfarm wrote:How come the knicks won't try this
That's the trade to make... I mentioned same in a different thread.
TLover wrote:fitzfarm wrote:How come the knicks won't try thisThat's the trade to make... I mentioned same in a different thread.
I'm wondering if they already proposed this trade or a similar one with Noah.....And it simply killed the deal. Noah is harder to move than Anderson.....If I'm Houston, why would I do this deal?
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Y’know I’m really glad Melo is so “at peace” these days. Soccer dad, AAU, whatever. He’s all just a Melo breeze, as he sports the optic of accepting his medal of extreme greatness while moving a tourney away from bad bad NY to Baltimore, his “real home”.
How impressively un-butt hurt is Melo!
But there’s only one problem, I can see through that charade. All I could hear was “serenity now! serenity now!”
Okay Melo owes nothing to the Knicks. But NBA karma should really come out of hiding for him.
WTF am I talking about? Melo riding pine is what I’m talking about. It would be a historically me-first guy getting what he actually deserves. If it ever happens, he’ll be so effing “at peace” with it that it’ll make your head spin. All while milking the victim card of course.
Too bad it’ll never happen, but I can dream.
blkexec wrote:TLover wrote:fitzfarm wrote:How come the knicks won't try thisThat's the trade to make... I mentioned same in a different thread.
I'm wondering if they already proposed this trade or a similar one with Noah.....And it simply killed the deal. Noah is harder to move than Anderson.....If I'm Houston, why would I do this deal?
The same reason they gave Lin the poison pill deal, they want melo. We should be testing how far they will go to get him.. I know Noah is a hard sell but if they really want melo they gotta pay the Noah price !
fitzfarm wrote:blkexec wrote:TLover wrote:fitzfarm wrote:How come the knicks won't try thisThat's the trade to make... I mentioned same in a different thread.
I'm wondering if they already proposed this trade or a similar one with Noah.....And it simply killed the deal. Noah is harder to move than Anderson.....If I'm Houston, why would I do this deal?
The same reason they gave Lin the poison pill deal, they want melo. We should be testing how far they will go to get him.. I know Noah is a hard sell but if they really want melo they gotta pay the Noah price !
The Rockets have Chris Paul's Bird Rights, but he can feasibly walk after this year. Capela and Ariza, IIRC, are expiring. The Rockets are ALL IN this year. Melo is not a seamless fit.
Adding Melo, but losing Ariza, Gordon, Capela, etc is like going one step forward and four steps back. Noah is likely to need serious shelf time as he's injury prone now. Moving Capela and taking in Noah cap locks the Rockets and means they will operate with basically zero rim protection (Nene cannot sustain starter minutes)
A) The Rockets can't push if they are gutted for a player who is a luxury ( Having Melo is an interesting possible addition, by himself though, he cannot outweigh the loss of the players listed)
B) Melo will not waive his NTC to go to a gutted team
C) The Rockets have been upfront all along. Ryan Anderson, some Non Guaranteed Contracts and some protected picks , and that's it.
They want Melo if he's a bargain price.
They don't want him if he's not.
The Rockets have already established they are not going to go far to "get him" The trade market for Melo is ONE TEAM. That's it.
Taking in Noah in a trade cap locks the Rockets for three years. How are they going to convince Chris Paul to stay when the team is locked out from getting help by virtue of the worst long term contract in the entire league?
The only reason teams are circling around Melo now is they believe they can get him dirt cheap. That's it.
If the Knicks want the "Iron Price" for Melo, the Rockets will just roll with Ryan Anderson and see if other trades develop as the season progresses.
Do not understand folks rationale here. I don't see how this trade helps the Rockets in any way. They get worse, older, more injury prone and cap locked.
Melo is MORE VALUABLE THAN RYAN ANDERSON. That's it. He's not and will never be more valuable than volume minutes and team cohesion sacrificed to squeeze all the team's short term and long term options away.
TripleThreat wrote:fitzfarm wrote:blkexec wrote:TLover wrote:fitzfarm wrote:How come the knicks won't try thisThat's the trade to make... I mentioned same in a different thread.
I'm wondering if they already proposed this trade or a similar one with Noah.....And it simply killed the deal. Noah is harder to move than Anderson.....If I'm Houston, why would I do this deal?
The same reason they gave Lin the poison pill deal, they want melo. We should be testing how far they will go to get him.. I know Noah is a hard sell but if they really want melo they gotta pay the Noah price !
The Rockets have Chris Paul's Bird Rights, but he can feasibly walk after this year. Capela and Ariza, IIRC, are expiring. The Rockets are ALL IN this year. Melo is not a seamless fit.Adding Melo, but losing Ariza, Gordon, Capela, etc is like going one step forward and four steps back. Noah is likely to need serious shelf time as he's injury prone now. Moving Capela and taking in Noah cap locks the Rockets and means they will operate with basically zero rim protection (Nene cannot sustain starter minutes)
A) The Rockets can't push if they are gutted for a player who is a luxury ( Having Melo is an interesting possible addition, by himself though, he cannot outweigh the loss of the players listed)
B) Melo will not waive his NTC to go to a gutted team
C) The Rockets have been upfront all along. Ryan Anderson, some Non Guaranteed Contracts and some protected picks , and that's it.
They want Melo if he's a bargain price.
They don't want him if he's not.
The Rockets have already established they are not going to go far to "get him" The trade market for Melo is ONE TEAM. That's it.
Taking in Noah in a trade cap locks the Rockets for three years. How are they going to convince Chris Paul to stay when the team is locked out from getting help by virtue of the worst long term contract in the entire league?
The only reason teams are circling around Melo now is they believe they can get him dirt cheap. That's it.
If the Knicks want the "Iron Price" for Melo, the Rockets will just roll with Ryan Anderson and see if other trades develop as the season progresses.
Do not understand folks rationale here. I don't see how this trade helps the Rockets in any way. They get worse, older, more injury prone and cap locked.
Melo is MORE VALUABLE THAN RYAN ANDERSON. That's it. He's not and will never be more valuable than volume minutes and team cohesion sacrificed to squeeze all the team's short term and long term options away.
Most people forget price when analyzing value and someone will regurgitate a bunch of worthless anecdotal accomplishments or a bunch of stats minus the context of salaries "to prove" Melo is a lot better than RA. Teams making trades look at production and contract and how both "fit" into their situation. Melo's current trade VALUE is slightly better than RA and his contract for the Rockets and slightly worse than Austin Rivers and his contract for the Clippers. To that's about it.
blkexec wrote:TLover wrote:fitzfarm wrote:How come the knicks won't try thisThat's the trade to make... I mentioned same in a different thread.
I'm wondering if they already proposed this trade or a similar one with Noah.....And it simply killed the deal. Noah is harder to move than Anderson.....If I'm Houston, why would I do this deal?
I don't think they'd give up their entire starting frontcourt just to get Melo. I also really don't want Gordon. I'd rather take a gamble that Noah might stay healthy.
PJ got the wheels turning and teams started thinking what Melo could do for them.
Now that PJ is gone (although his Zen spirit could still be floating around the garden)Scott Perry could very well make the decision not to trade Melo.
The Knicks should either trade him for an offer including Noah (especially if we're getting back Anderson) or keep him.
Knicks should not have to be forced into anything.
We have a core 4 of KP, Hernangomez, Hardaway, & Ntilikina. If your 5th player in that group is one of the NBAs greater scorers in Carmelo Anthony then you might as well roll with it.
Ideally the starters with Melo on the team would be:
Pg: Ntilikina
Sg: Hardaway Jr.
Sf: Lee
Pf: Melo
C: KP
Frank & Courtney give us perimeter D (hopefully Timmy does too) while KP blocks everything in site. Melo has the ability to get 10 boards a game which he would need to do with this starting unit.
His contract sucks, but if he was able to stay healthy next season, I think we'll quickly change our tune on him. Then we can always stretch his contract after next season.
But he has value to me, because he's a good defensive player, great rebounder and I think he would fit what the team is trying to do, which is be a defensive team that can challenges shots, moves their feet, works hard. He may be old, past his prime, but he is a veteran I think will be a good influence on the team,
Crazy, but I still take Noah's bad contract over Anderson's.
Noah will be a better influence on Porzingis and Willy longterm than Anderson ever would. He knows defense at a high level. He can help the two young bigs on how to become better defenders. Noah was never a super strong big explosive athlete. He's been able to use his length and high motor to become a one time defensive star.
Question is where Melo wants to go. Or not.
LInk to todays POST article:
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/outerlink....
For what its worth, Playing with Drue Holiday and Anthony Davis is appealing. PLaying with Boogie Cousins and Rondo is not.
These are guys that are not exactly wound too tight.
I like the knicks and Melo are at least publically at peace with the situation. Knicks don't want to make a bad trade and Melo wants to play with Chris Paul.
There is just so much Rockets can do before they have to give up pieces that make the trade at best a lateral. NOt that Melo is not worth trading for, but to give up depth and role players necessary to contend makes it not worth while. Ryan Anderson at 20 million is a stretch 4. We got that covered already.
With Phil gone there seems to be less personality discord surrounding the youth movement. Knicks want to develop the yoot, and Melo wants to score points. With the public shaming more geared to get melo to open up to more teams by phil now a thing in the past, "The handwriting on the wall" has less emotional elements attached to it but the fact is Knicks can pay melo, but if melo wants his legacy to grow then he has to move on.
Wiz are locked up, Baltimore has no franchise, and boston has Haywood now so there are few geographical choices for Melo.
We are only as knowledgeable as the media reports us. Knicks according to the article are not sacrificing a thing to make the playoffs and thus really have not gaping holes to fill.
This team without Melo can grow organically and have a good draft position next summer.
TLover wrote:When Phil Jackson was here he set the tone to trade Melo.Ive been thinking about that line up. I think Melo is here to start. I think teams know the Knicks are in a waiting period and resigned to starting the year with Melo on the roster and this is the right play.
PJ got the wheels turning and teams started thinking what Melo could do for them.Now that PJ is gone (although his Zen spirit could still be floating around the garden)Scott Perry could very well make the decision not to trade Melo.
The Knicks should either trade him for an offer including Noah (especially if we're getting back Anderson) or keep him.Knicks should not have to be forced into anything.
We have a core 4 of KP, Hernangomez, Hardaway, & Ntilikina. If your 5th player in that group is one of the NBAs greater scorers in Carmelo Anthony then you might as well roll with it.
Ideally the starters with Melo on the team would be:
Pg: Ntilikina
Sg: Hardaway Jr.
Sf: Lee
Pf: Melo
C: KPFrank & Courtney give us perimeter D (hopefully Timmy does too) while KP blocks everything in site. Melo has the ability to get 10 boards a game which he would need to do with this starting unit.
I dont think you can start Melo at the 4 and KP at the 5. Its not really fair to bring Lee off the bench but we just signed THjr and he's the future and Lee is not. Lee is still a core rotation guy I would look to get 30mpg.
With Noah suspened the first month I would give the nod to KOQ, assuming he picks up where he left off last year.
We would look like this:
PG Sessions
SG THjr
SF Melo
PF KP
C KOQ (eventually Noah)
Bench: Lee, Ntilikina, Willy, Dotson
Based on talent/fit/future that would be my 9 to start.
I like Frank/Willy running the P&R in the 2nd unit with some defensive guys around them. I think Noah comes back gets minutes. Much of last season's collapse was from losing Noah. The days of him playing 35mpg and being the anchor in the middle are done, but for 20mpg he can be very important.
If we don't want KP banging around as a rim protecter, how is Melo going to if he at the 4?
I get his rebounding is good at the 4.
If Noah is healthy, he is playing and willy his back up. If Noah is not, Willy I think will start.
KOQ not out of the question and might be a good idea!
If Melo is here and not bought out, best case is he is told to stay home, else he comes off the bench.
meloshouldgo wrote:KP/Willy/Noah need to start at 4/5Noah has played 75 games the past two years. Hamstring, shoulder, peds... hopefully he is back but the guy is going to play spot minutes if he is able to stay on the court. Have to hope he is a bit more effective.
If Melo is here and not bought out, best case is he is told to stay home, else he comes off the bench.
CrushAlot wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:KP/Willy/Noah need to start at 4/5Noah has played 75 games the past two years. Hamstring, shoulder, peds... hopefully he is back but the guy is going to play spot minutes if he is able to stay on the court. Have to hope he is a bit more effective.
If Melo is here and not bought out, best case is he is told to stay home, else he comes off the bench.
one can hope that as he is now over 30 he looks at his whole regimen of diet and core strength without PED's or what ever he is suspended for
to sustain on court performance. He is just two years removed from really good play but as a high motor player relying on super athletic gifts he has to adjust. We have been treated to his summer vacation yacht pics in the past but not working out Youtubes so we won't know until he takes the court and stays on it, or hobbles off.
meloshouldgo wrote:KP/Willy/Noah need to start at 4/5
If Melo is here and not bought out, best case is he is told to stay home, else he comes off the bench.
Dude you have a better chance of getting a camp invite before any of what your saying happens.
If melo is still here, he will take his normally shots, he will play is normal minutes, and his role wont change much, and if we start out winning, expect him here for the duration.
The New York Knicks and Houston Rockets have returned to the negotiation table on a deal centered upon Carmelo Anthony. The two teams are seeking a third party to help facilitate a trade.Anthony will only waive his no-trade clause for the Rockets and refuses to expand his list.
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/24...
[quoteThe Knicks have become willing again to make an Anthony deal before the start of training camp in September, especially after Anthony made it clear that the franchise's hopes of getting him to embrace a return to the team -- after months of ex-president Phil Jackson's pushing for Anthony to waive his no-trade -- are fruitless.
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The Knicks paused trade talks involving Anthony shortly after the hiring of Perry in mid-July, but were unable to convince Anthony to reconsider his desire to be traded away -- or add more teams to his wish list, league sources said.
Anthony had an earlier interest in waiving his no-trade for Cleveland, but that desire waned with Paul's arrival in Houston and the upheaval surrounding Kyrie Irving and LeBron James' futures with the Cavaliers.
ESPN's Ian Begley contributed to this report.]
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20306075/knicks-rockets-re-engage-carmelo-anthony-trade-talks
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knicks1248 wrote:For 2 months this has been going on, even before the draft and FA started. Is this a ploy to make melos camp feel like they haven't given up? What exactly has changed from 2 wks ago now that every team in the league is capped out.No real info but I wonder if Perry wanted to put a stop to it when he first got hired because it was such a bad deal for the Knicks. Maybe after talking to Melo he knows that the rift that was created can't be mended and he is going to try to make the best of a bad situation that he inherited. Interesting that on the same day that Woj is reporting that talks have started again, Berman has an article talking about how the Knicks position is stronger than it appears with Melo.