Off Topic · Off Topic: six months later, do people who voted for Trump still support this guy? (page 12)

Forget the rest of the article. Just read what Trump and Turnbull say.

Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

Why not just look at what happened when Bush was POTUS? Of course Dems would not be satisfied. However the rules of engagement were different. Were there mass protests? When we never found the WMDs we went to war over did Bush blast the media and call them liars and fake news?

Of course liberals were against him. The difference is despite some bad moves by GW, and his sometimes country bumkin demeanor Bush was not a national embarrassment.

Right now all GOP legislation and agendas are all straight up anti environment, pro wealth and pro corporation. Those 3 all go hand in hand. If EPA restrictions are costing you money and those pesky pollution controls are hurting your bottom line, than the GOP is the party for you.

Policy is policy. GOP puts the money with the companies. That puts the money with the rich. That puts the environment at risk. They are anti social programs. Yes.. the programs that generally benefit minorities. Yes, those programs. You will get more military spending. You will get lower taxes. This is the pattern we see.

Make no mistake. Dems are bad also. To protect the environment they piss money away on poorly conceived green energy programs. They dump money into anything and everything. The long resting members of the party are terrible. Washington is a swamp... No doubt. Politicans are terrible in the country right now. But to answer your question Rookie.. from a political standpoint no liberal is going to be happy with Pence. However he will act presidential and not embarrass us. That would be start. He would be infinitely more qualified as well, and probably have a basic understanding of what goverment does and how it works. Things Trumps lacks

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

Why not just look at what happened when Bush was POTUS? Of course Dems would not be satisfied. However the rules of engagement were different. Were there mass protests? When we never found the WMDs we went to war over did Bush blast the media and call them liars and fake news?

Of course liberals were against him. The difference is despite some bad moves by GW, and his sometimes country bumkin demeanor Bush was not a national embarrassment.

Right now all GOP legislation and agendas are all straight up anti environment, pro wealth and pro corporation. Those 3 all go hand in hand. If EPA restrictions are costing you money and those pesky pollution controls are hurting your bottom line, than the GOP is the party for you.

Policy is policy. GOP puts the money with the companies. That puts the money with the rich. That puts the environment at risk. They are anti social programs. Yes.. the programs that generally benefit minorities. Yes, those programs. You will get more military spending. You will get lower taxes. This is the pattern we see.

Make no mistake. Dems are bad also. To protect the environment they piss money away on poorly conceived green energy programs. They dump money into anything and everything. The long resting members of the party are terrible. Washington is a swamp... No doubt. Politicans are terrible in the country right now. But to answer your question Rookie.. from a political standpoint no liberal is going to be happy with Pence. However he will act presidential and not embarrass us. That would be start. He would be infinitely more qualified as well, and probably have a basic understanding of what goverment does and how it works. Things Trumps lacks

Totally agree. Don't even get me started on the army corp of engineers and pork barrel spending. It is a swamp and everyone knows it. Draining the swamp was good salesmanship, it resonates with people, especially when they are strugling to just get by every month.

To just focus in one one point, manufacturing jobs, you will see the devastation around the country where smaller towns that depended on these industries are now devastated. Then you have to ask yourself, where did these manufacturing plants go and why did they go there when skilled labor is plentiful right here.

Trade agreements, cheaper labor, lesser enviromental restrictions, competitive balance. All things at the core of Trumps agenda that every other politician was afraid to take head on. Problem with Trump is he is such a clown and a circus sideshow that the message is lost. He has zero diplomatic finesse.

Where I live is a microcosm of this country. It puts things in a different perspective then if you live in NY, CT or NJ

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

That's a pretty ridiculous statement. Of course liberals will not be satisfied if a conservative is in office. That works vice versa too so I don't get your point? And if a nut job republican is in the chair like Pence (who implies that he supports conversion therapy and thinks it's fine for businesses to discriminate against gays on religious grounds}, yes there would be a freak out. Just like if Bernie Sanders were president conservatives would freak out.

In fact, I think Pence is worst than Trump. Trump is a lunatic who behaves like one. On the other hand, Pence is a lunatic wrapped in a smooth, ah-shucks mid-western package who can easily fool people into thinking he's reasonable. He's probably more radical than Trump.

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

Why not just look at what happened when Bush was POTUS? Of course Dems would not be satisfied. However the rules of engagement were different. Were there mass protests? When we never found the WMDs we went to war over did Bush blast the media and call them liars and fake news?

Of course liberals were against him. The difference is despite some bad moves by GW, and his sometimes country bumkin demeanor Bush was not a national embarrassment.

Right now all GOP legislation and agendas are all straight up anti environment, pro wealth and pro corporation. Those 3 all go hand in hand. If EPA restrictions are costing you money and those pesky pollution controls are hurting your bottom line, than the GOP is the party for you.

Policy is policy. GOP puts the money with the companies. That puts the money with the rich. That puts the environment at risk. They are anti social programs. Yes.. the programs that generally benefit minorities. Yes, those programs. You will get more military spending. You will get lower taxes. This is the pattern we see.

Make no mistake. Dems are bad also. To protect the environment they piss money away on poorly conceived green energy programs. They dump money into anything and everything. The long resting members of the party are terrible. Washington is a swamp... No doubt. Politicans are terrible in the country right now. But to answer your question Rookie.. from a political standpoint no liberal is going to be happy with Pence. However he will act presidential and not embarrass us. That would be start. He would be infinitely more qualified as well, and probably have a basic understanding of what goverment does and how it works. Things Trumps lacks

Totally agree. Don't even get me started on the army corp of engineers and pork barrel spending. It is a swamp and everyone knows it. Draining the swamp was good salesmanship, it resonates with people, especially when they are strugling to just get by every month.

To just focus in one one point, manufacturing jobs, you will see the devastation around the country where smaller towns that depended on these industries are now devastated. Then you have to ask yourself, where did these manufacturing plants go and why did they go there when skilled labor is plentiful right here.

Trade agreements, cheaper labor, lesser enviromental restrictions, competitive balance. All things at the core of Trumps agenda that every other politician was afraid to take head on. Problem with Trump is he is such a clown and a circus sideshow that the message is lost. He has zero diplomatic finesse.

Where I live is a microcosm of this country. It puts things in a different perspective then if you live in NY, CT or NJ

Here's the problem - what's the cost of lessening environmental restrictions? The damage we're doing environmentally is real and eventually a heavy price will be paid. Money can't be the bottom line for everything we do. We're already letting corporations poison our society with the horrible foods on our shelves. The tobacco industry keeps chugging along. We continue to drag our feet transitioning away from fossil fuels. I mean, I certainly feel for people lost their jobs due to environmental restrictions to certain industries, but we can't continue letting corporations destroy our society for the sake of making more money. At some point we gotta realize there are some things more important than making as much money as possible at the expense of killing people and ruining the environment.

Welpee wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

That's a pretty ridiculous statement. Of course liberals will not be satisfied if a conservative is in office. That works vice versa too so I don't get your point? And if a nut job republican is in the chair like Pence (who implies that he supports conversion therapy and thinks it's fine for businesses to discriminate against gays on religious grounds}, yes there would be a freak out. Just like if Bernie Sanders were president conservatives would freak out.

In fact, I think Pence is worst than Trump. Trump is a lunatic who behaves like one. On the other hand, Pence is a lunatic wrapped in a smooth, ah-shucks mid-western package who can easily fool people into thinking he's reasonable. He's probably more radical than Trump.

It's called Church doctrine. The Catholic Church has been around for a very long time. Southerners, Midwesterners, lots of people actually, have religion in their lives. Doesn't make them nut jobs. Maybe take the separation of church and state route instead of criticizing religious groups that have different ideology then your own would be a better tact for you to take to have a reasonable discussion.

In NYC, there is a coffee shop and bank/ATM on every corner. Around here, there is a church on every corner. Another difference is community and people looking after one another. NYC is more dog eat dog. You can have it, I don't miss it.

Rookie wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

That's a pretty ridiculous statement. Of course liberals will not be satisfied if a conservative is in office. That works vice versa too so I don't get your point? And if a nut job republican is in the chair like Pence (who implies that he supports conversion therapy and thinks it's fine for businesses to discriminate against gays on religious grounds}, yes there would be a freak out. Just like if Bernie Sanders were president conservatives would freak out.

In fact, I think Pence is worst than Trump. Trump is a lunatic who behaves like one. On the other hand, Pence is a lunatic wrapped in a smooth, ah-shucks mid-western package who can easily fool people into thinking he's reasonable. He's probably more radical than Trump.

It's called Church doctrine. The Catholic Church has been around for a very long time. Southerners have religion. Doesn't make them nut jobs. Maybe take the separation of church and state route instead of criticizing religious groups that have different ideology then your own would be a better tact for you to take to have a reasonable discussion.

Well, I'm going to stay away from the religion discussion but for centuries people have used and misinterpreted religious doctrine to justify condemning people different than themselves. In 2017 if people took those same thoughts and arguments towards gays and applied them to African-American we would view them as nut jobs.

Welpee wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

That's a pretty ridiculous statement. Of course liberals will not be satisfied if a conservative is in office. That works vice versa too so I don't get your point? And if a nut job republican is in the chair like Pence (who implies that he supports conversion therapy and thinks it's fine for businesses to discriminate against gays on religious grounds}, yes there would be a freak out. Just like if Bernie Sanders were president conservatives would freak out.

In fact, I think Pence is worst than Trump. Trump is a lunatic who behaves like one. On the other hand, Pence is a lunatic wrapped in a smooth, ah-shucks mid-western package who can easily fool people into thinking he's reasonable. He's probably more radical than Trump.

It's called Church doctrine. The Catholic Church has been around for a very long time. Southerners have religion. Doesn't make them nut jobs. Maybe take the separation of church and state route instead of criticizing religious groups that have different ideology then your own would be a better tact for you to take to have a reasonable discussion.

Well, I'm going to stay away from the religion discussion but for centuries people have used and misinterpreted religious doctrine to justify condemning people different than themselves. In 2017 if people took those same thoughts and arguments towards gays and applied them to African-American we would view them as nut jobs.

I think corruption of power is relevant to the discussion. If fact, it is the root of the problems we all face. Most people will ignore it until it affects them personally.

markvmc wrote:Forget the rest of the article. Just read what Trump and Turnbull say.

He's trying to get a point across to this clown, without sounding like an arrogant tool. He's asking obvious questions, because the answers provided are dumb as shit.

Trump goes out of his way to remind him what he ran on and how this "favor" will be perceived among his supporters.

Let's just honor another deal that doesn't benefit the US... Australia president wants to save face with his people, by dumping this stuff in our lap. All because they arrived via boat- wtf.

I fully support push-back on accepting another 1200+ refugees that have been detained in another country.

Rookie wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

That's a pretty ridiculous statement. Of course liberals will not be satisfied if a conservative is in office. That works vice versa too so I don't get your point? And if a nut job republican is in the chair like Pence (who implies that he supports conversion therapy and thinks it's fine for businesses to discriminate against gays on religious grounds}, yes there would be a freak out. Just like if Bernie Sanders were president conservatives would freak out.

In fact, I think Pence is worst than Trump. Trump is a lunatic who behaves like one. On the other hand, Pence is a lunatic wrapped in a smooth, ah-shucks mid-western package who can easily fool people into thinking he's reasonable. He's probably more radical than Trump.

It's called Church doctrine. The Catholic Church has been around for a very long time. Southerners, Midwesterners, lots of people actually, have religion in their lives. Doesn't make them nut jobs. Maybe take the separation of church and state route instead of criticizing religious groups that have different ideology then your own would be a better tact for you to take to have a reasonable discussion.

In NYC, there is a coffee shop and bank/ATM on every corner. Around here, there is a church on every corner. Another difference is community and people looking after one another. NYC is more dog eat dog. You can have it, I don't miss it.

Here's the problem with this.

One of the greatest threats to our way of life is due to religious doctrine. Now the point isn't to say more fundamentalist Christianity Is the same as Islamic extremism. It is not and again that isn't the point. But, to expect other people to accept and respect behavior they finally morally repugnant as "Well it's just their religion and there's a lot of them and they've been around for a long time so it must be a-okay" is not a reasonable expectation.

Me, I don't care if someone discriminates against a gay man because of church doctrine or because they just really don't like gay people. I care about the person being discriminated against. One does not sit better with me than the other. I find both justifications ridiculous.

You don't get to use "church doctrine" as a moral and legal 'get out of jail free' card.

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

Why not just look at what happened when Bush was POTUS? Of course Dems would not be satisfied. However the rules of engagement were different. Were there mass protests? When we never found the WMDs we went to war over did Bush blast the media and call them liars and fake news?

Of course liberals were against him. The difference is despite some bad moves by GW, and his sometimes country bumkin demeanor Bush was not a national embarrassment.

Right now all GOP legislation and agendas are all straight up anti environment, pro wealth and pro corporation. Those 3 all go hand in hand. If EPA restrictions are costing you money and those pesky pollution controls are hurting your bottom line, than the GOP is the party for you.

Policy is policy. GOP puts the money with the companies. That puts the money with the rich. That puts the environment at risk. They are anti social programs. Yes.. the programs that generally benefit minorities. Yes, those programs. You will get more military spending. You will get lower taxes. This is the pattern we see.

Make no mistake. Dems are bad also. To protect the environment they piss money away on poorly conceived green energy programs. They dump money into anything and everything. The long resting members of the party are terrible. Washington is a swamp... No doubt. Politicans are terrible in the country right now. But to answer your question Rookie.. from a political standpoint no liberal is going to be happy with Pence. However he will act presidential and not embarrass us. That would be start. He would be infinitely more qualified as well, and probably have a basic understanding of what goverment does and how it works. Things Trumps lacks

Totally agree. Don't even get me started on the army corp of engineers and pork barrel spending. It is a swamp and everyone knows it. Draining the swamp was good salesmanship, it resonates with people, especially when they are strugling to just get by every month.

To just focus in one one point, manufacturing jobs, you will see the devastation around the country where smaller towns that depended on these industries are now devastated. Then you have to ask yourself, where did these manufacturing plants go and why did they go there when skilled labor is plentiful right here.

Trade agreements, cheaper labor, lesser enviromental restrictions, competitive balance. All things at the core of Trumps agenda that every other politician was afraid to take head on. Problem with Trump is he is such a clown and a circus sideshow that the message is lost. He has zero diplomatic finesse.

Where I live is a microcosm of this country. It puts things in a different perspective then if you live in NY, CT or NJ

Well here is where I disagree with... on the jobs point. The job numbers have been growing for many years. Obama had very strong job numbers. The problem is wage growth. These devastated industries you talk about... there is such a thing as times change. Yes there will collateral damage. There always is. Do we bring back blockbuster and palmer video stores to bring back the lost jobs from those devastated industries? Of course not.. but we do it for dying industries. Bernie Sanders was a bit exreme in this but we need to invest in real education. We are sorely behind. The country isnt hurting from losing coal and auto jobs. Its losing from KEEPING those jobs. If you want to make America great educate those job up.

Does it bother you? The struggle to keep these jobs that pay $35-50k a year, meanwhile all the REAL money goes to big companies. Those companies then take valuable REAL career jobs like everything in IT, and bring in cheaper labor on visas from India and Eastern former Soviet block countries. Now these guys make $80-$100k for jobs that would otherwise pay $125-$150k for a US citizen. Now I have no hate for that labor group. My experience is they are good hard working people and I call many long time friends. Its an eye opening aspect of the labor force IMO, and the politicians will NEVER push back on that because its money right out of the pockets of their biggest donors. The swamp runs deep and with many twists and turns.

Bottom line is regardless of recent job growth under Barak and now Trump, wage growth is stagnant and the $ is weak. Those are bad. That means the new jobs being created are low level. Not the stuff "GREAT" is build on. It also means that the value of stocks goes up, commodities go up, property values go up... everyone with STUFF is happy. Lots of of those just below middle class jobs to keep people buying cars, going to walmart, living paycheck to paycheck, racking in overdraft fees and ensuring their kids follow in similar footsteps because college is for people with money.

This is the democrat in me. We need to offer better to EVERYONE. That is what makes America great again. A smarter workforce, not one that ensures there is a ditch to dig for everyone.

I dont have all the answers, but I do know most people dont understand the question. Its big and has to be chipped away at. I know more jobs in coal and looser restrictions and regulations on what corporations and banks can do isnt the answer. That I know

Knickoftime wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

That's a pretty ridiculous statement. Of course liberals will not be satisfied if a conservative is in office. That works vice versa too so I don't get your point? And if a nut job republican is in the chair like Pence (who implies that he supports conversion therapy and thinks it's fine for businesses to discriminate against gays on religious grounds}, yes there would be a freak out. Just like if Bernie Sanders were president conservatives would freak out.

In fact, I think Pence is worst than Trump. Trump is a lunatic who behaves like one. On the other hand, Pence is a lunatic wrapped in a smooth, ah-shucks mid-western package who can easily fool people into thinking he's reasonable. He's probably more radical than Trump.

It's called Church doctrine. The Catholic Church has been around for a very long time. Southerners, Midwesterners, lots of people actually, have religion in their lives. Doesn't make them nut jobs. Maybe take the separation of church and state route instead of criticizing religious groups that have different ideology then your own would be a better tact for you to take to have a reasonable discussion.

In NYC, there is a coffee shop and bank/ATM on every corner. Around here, there is a church on every corner. Another difference is community and people looking after one another. NYC is more dog eat dog. You can have it, I don't miss it.

Here's the problem with this.

One of the greatest threats to our way of life is due to religious doctrine. Now the point isn't to say more fundamentalist Christianity Is the same as Islamic extremism. It is not and again that isn't the point. But, to expect other people to accept and respect behavior they finally morally repugnant as "Well it's just their religion and there's a lot of them and they've been around for a long time so it must be a-okay" is not a reasonable expectation.

Me, I don't care if someone discriminates against a gay man because of church doctrine or because they just really don't like gay people. I care about the person being discriminated against. One does not sit better with me than the other. I find both justifications ridiculous.

You don't get to use "church doctrine" as a moral and legal 'get out of jail free' card.

How is this a threat to your (or our) way of life? Also, who is expecting you to accept any behavior that conflicts with what 'you' believe in. As far as the moral get out of jail free card. You are forcing others to accept your morals, how is that OK? If someone is not comfortable using a rest room with a person of the opposite sex that is 'cross dressed', now they are morally to blame for feeling uncomfortable? If someone feels that it is wrong and expresses that opinion do they not have the same right to freedom of speech even if their opinion offends your moral senses?

Rookie wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

That's a pretty ridiculous statement. Of course liberals will not be satisfied if a conservative is in office. That works vice versa too so I don't get your point? And if a nut job republican is in the chair like Pence (who implies that he supports conversion therapy and thinks it's fine for businesses to discriminate against gays on religious grounds}, yes there would be a freak out. Just like if Bernie Sanders were president conservatives would freak out.

In fact, I think Pence is worst than Trump. Trump is a lunatic who behaves like one. On the other hand, Pence is a lunatic wrapped in a smooth, ah-shucks mid-western package who can easily fool people into thinking he's reasonable. He's probably more radical than Trump.

It's called Church doctrine. The Catholic Church has been around for a very long time. Southerners, Midwesterners, lots of people actually, have religion in their lives. Doesn't make them nut jobs. Maybe take the separation of church and state route instead of criticizing religious groups that have different ideology then your own would be a better tact for you to take to have a reasonable discussion.

In NYC, there is a coffee shop and bank/ATM on every corner. Around here, there is a church on every corner. Another difference is community and people looking after one another. NYC is more dog eat dog. You can have it, I don't miss it.

Here's the problem with this.

One of the greatest threats to our way of life is due to religious doctrine. Now the point isn't to say more fundamentalist Christianity Is the same as Islamic extremism. It is not and again that isn't the point. But, to expect other people to accept and respect behavior they finally morally repugnant as "Well it's just their religion and there's a lot of them and they've been around for a long time so it must be a-okay" is not a reasonable expectation.

Me, I don't care if someone discriminates against a gay man because of church doctrine or because they just really don't like gay people. I care about the person being discriminated against. One does not sit better with me than the other. I find both justifications ridiculous.

You don't get to use "church doctrine" as a moral and legal 'get out of jail free' card.

How is this a threat to your (or our) way of life? Also, who is expecting you to accept any behavior that conflicts with what 'you' believe in. As far as the moral get out of jail free card. You are forcing others to accept your morals, how is that OK? If someone is not comfortable using a rest room with a person of the opposite sex that is 'cross dressed', now they are morally to blame for feeling uncomfortable? If someone feels that it is wrong and expresses that opinion do they not have the same right to freedom of speech even if their opinion offends your moral senses?

the law doesnt protect you from feeling uncomfortable. It does protect against discrimination. At least it supposed to.

Can you see the difference between
"this makes me uncomfortable"
and
"I can, but you can't"

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

Why not just look at what happened when Bush was POTUS? Of course Dems would not be satisfied. However the rules of engagement were different. Were there mass protests? When we never found the WMDs we went to war over did Bush blast the media and call them liars and fake news?

Of course liberals were against him. The difference is despite some bad moves by GW, and his sometimes country bumkin demeanor Bush was not a national embarrassment.

Right now all GOP legislation and agendas are all straight up anti environment, pro wealth and pro corporation. Those 3 all go hand in hand. If EPA restrictions are costing you money and those pesky pollution controls are hurting your bottom line, than the GOP is the party for you.

Policy is policy. GOP puts the money with the companies. That puts the money with the rich. That puts the environment at risk. They are anti social programs. Yes.. the programs that generally benefit minorities. Yes, those programs. You will get more military spending. You will get lower taxes. This is the pattern we see.

Make no mistake. Dems are bad also. To protect the environment they piss money away on poorly conceived green energy programs. They dump money into anything and everything. The long resting members of the party are terrible. Washington is a swamp... No doubt. Politicans are terrible in the country right now. But to answer your question Rookie.. from a political standpoint no liberal is going to be happy with Pence. However he will act presidential and not embarrass us. That would be start. He would be infinitely more qualified as well, and probably have a basic understanding of what goverment does and how it works. Things Trumps lacks

Totally agree. Don't even get me started on the army corp of engineers and pork barrel spending. It is a swamp and everyone knows it. Draining the swamp was good salesmanship, it resonates with people, especially when they are strugling to just get by every month.

To just focus in one one point, manufacturing jobs, you will see the devastation around the country where smaller towns that depended on these industries are now devastated. Then you have to ask yourself, where did these manufacturing plants go and why did they go there when skilled labor is plentiful right here.

Trade agreements, cheaper labor, lesser enviromental restrictions, competitive balance. All things at the core of Trumps agenda that every other politician was afraid to take head on. Problem with Trump is he is such a clown and a circus sideshow that the message is lost. He has zero diplomatic finesse.

Where I live is a microcosm of this country. It puts things in a different perspective then if you live in NY, CT or NJ

Well here is where I disagree with... on the jobs point. The job numbers have been growing for many years. Obama had very strong job numbers. The problem is wage growth. These devastated industries you talk about... there is such a thing as times change. Yes there will collateral damage. There always is. Do we bring back blockbuster and palmer video stores to bring back the lost jobs from those devastated industries? Of course not.. but we do it for dying industries. Bernie Sanders was a bit exreme in this but we need to invest in real education. We are sorely behind. The country isnt hurting from losing coal and auto jobs. Its losing from KEEPING those jobs. If you want to make America great educate those job up.

Does it bother you? The struggle to keep these jobs that pay $35-50k a year, meanwhile all the REAL money goes to big companies. Those companies then take valuable REAL career jobs like everything in IT, and bring in cheaper labor on visas from India and Eastern former Soviet block countries. Now these guys make $80-$100k for jobs that would otherwise pay $125-$150k for a US citizen. Now I have no hate for that labor group. My experience is they are good hard working people and I call many long time friends. Its an eye opening aspect of the labor force IMO, and the politicians will NEVER push back on that because its money right out of the pockets of their biggest donors. The swamp runs deep and with many twists and turns.

Bottom line is regardless of recent job growth under Barak and now Trump, wage growth is stagnant and the $ is weak. Those are bad. That means the new jobs being created are low level. Not the stuff "GREAT" is build on. It also means that the value of stocks goes up, commodities go up, property values go up... everyone with STUFF is happy. Lots of of those just below middle class jobs to keep people buying cars, going to walmart, living paycheck to paycheck, racking in overdraft fees and ensuring their kids follow in similar footsteps because college is for people with money.

This is the democrat in me. We need to offer better to EVERYONE. That is what makes America great again. A smarter workforce, not one that ensures there is a ditch to dig for everyone.

I dont have all the answers, but I do know most people dont understand the question. Its big and has to be chipped away at. I know more jobs in coal and looser restrictions and regulations on what corporations and banks can do isnt the answer. That I know

hey Mike, I like the conversation. I am going to get back to this discussion when I am not running out the door and can give a better response. If you want a window of what I am referring to at the micro level, check out a book called Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis by J.D. Vance. It's a quick read and moves along nicely.

Rookie wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

That's a pretty ridiculous statement. Of course liberals will not be satisfied if a conservative is in office. That works vice versa too so I don't get your point? And if a nut job republican is in the chair like Pence (who implies that he supports conversion therapy and thinks it's fine for businesses to discriminate against gays on religious grounds}, yes there would be a freak out. Just like if Bernie Sanders were president conservatives would freak out.

In fact, I think Pence is worst than Trump. Trump is a lunatic who behaves like one. On the other hand, Pence is a lunatic wrapped in a smooth, ah-shucks mid-western package who can easily fool people into thinking he's reasonable. He's probably more radical than Trump.

It's called Church doctrine. The Catholic Church has been around for a very long time. Southerners, Midwesterners, lots of people actually, have religion in their lives. Doesn't make them nut jobs. Maybe take the separation of church and state route instead of criticizing religious groups that have different ideology then your own would be a better tact for you to take to have a reasonable discussion.

In NYC, there is a coffee shop and bank/ATM on every corner. Around here, there is a church on every corner. Another difference is community and people looking after one another. NYC is more dog eat dog. You can have it, I don't miss it.

Here's the problem with this.

One of the greatest threats to our way of life is due to religious doctrine. Now the point isn't to say more fundamentalist Christianity Is the same as Islamic extremism. It is not and again that isn't the point. But, to expect other people to accept and respect behavior they finally morally repugnant as "Well it's just their religion and there's a lot of them and they've been around for a long time so it must be a-okay" is not a reasonable expectation.

Me, I don't care if someone discriminates against a gay man because of church doctrine or because they just really don't like gay people. I care about the person being discriminated against. One does not sit better with me than the other. I find both justifications ridiculous.

You don't get to use "church doctrine" as a moral and legal 'get out of jail free' card.

How is this a threat to your (or our) way of life?

You don't recognize the global threat of religious extremism? Is religious extremism also not a form of religious freedom?

Also, who is expecting you to accept any behavior that conflicts with what 'you' believe in.

Anyone who argues they are exempt or require special exceptions from the laws of the land (or a state) due to the religious belief are

As far as the moral get out of jail free card. You are forcing others to accept your morals, how is that OK?

It's the basis of civilized society. That's what laws are.

If someone is not comfortable using a rest room with a person of the opposite sex that is 'cross dressed', now they are morally to blame for feeling uncomfortable?

Nobody enjoys the legal right to be comfortable at all times. If someone - and these people exist so it was not a hypothetical = are uncomfortable around black people, should they enjoy the legal right to a whites-only bathroom?

Please answer that question.

If someone feels that it is wrong and expresses that opinion do they not have the same right to freedom of speech even if their opinion offends your moral senses?

Of course they do, who suggested otherwise?

The point isn't silence, the point is the discourse.

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

Why not just look at what happened when Bush was POTUS? Of course Dems would not be satisfied. However the rules of engagement were different. Were there mass protests? When we never found the WMDs we went to war over did Bush blast the media and call them liars and fake news?

Of course liberals were against him. The difference is despite some bad moves by GW, and his sometimes country bumkin demeanor Bush was not a national embarrassment.

Right now all GOP legislation and agendas are all straight up anti environment, pro wealth and pro corporation. Those 3 all go hand in hand. If EPA restrictions are costing you money and those pesky pollution controls are hurting your bottom line, than the GOP is the party for you.

Policy is policy. GOP puts the money with the companies. That puts the money with the rich. That puts the environment at risk. They are anti social programs. Yes.. the programs that generally benefit minorities. Yes, those programs. You will get more military spending. You will get lower taxes. This is the pattern we see.

Make no mistake. Dems are bad also. To protect the environment they piss money away on poorly conceived green energy programs. They dump money into anything and everything. The long resting members of the party are terrible. Washington is a swamp... No doubt. Politicans are terrible in the country right now. But to answer your question Rookie.. from a political standpoint no liberal is going to be happy with Pence. However he will act presidential and not embarrass us. That would be start. He would be infinitely more qualified as well, and probably have a basic understanding of what goverment does and how it works. Things Trumps lacks

Totally agree. Don't even get me started on the army corp of engineers and pork barrel spending. It is a swamp and everyone knows it. Draining the swamp was good salesmanship, it resonates with people, especially when they are strugling to just get by every month.

To just focus in one one point, manufacturing jobs, you will see the devastation around the country where smaller towns that depended on these industries are now devastated. Then you have to ask yourself, where did these manufacturing plants go and why did they go there when skilled labor is plentiful right here.

Trade agreements, cheaper labor, lesser enviromental restrictions, competitive balance. All things at the core of Trumps agenda that every other politician was afraid to take head on. Problem with Trump is he is such a clown and a circus sideshow that the message is lost. He has zero diplomatic finesse.

Where I live is a microcosm of this country. It puts things in a different perspective then if you live in NY, CT or NJ

Well here is where I disagree with... on the jobs point. The job numbers have been growing for many years. Obama had very strong job numbers. The problem is wage growth. These devastated industries you talk about... there is such a thing as times change. Yes there will collateral damage. There always is. Do we bring back blockbuster and palmer video stores to bring back the lost jobs from those devastated industries? Of course not.. but we do it for dying industries. Bernie Sanders was a bit exreme in this but we need to invest in real education. We are sorely behind. The country isnt hurting from losing coal and auto jobs. Its losing from KEEPING those jobs. If you want to make America great educate those job up.

Does it bother you? The struggle to keep these jobs that pay $35-50k a year, meanwhile all the REAL money goes to big companies. Those companies then take valuable REAL career jobs like everything in IT, and bring in cheaper labor on visas from India and Eastern former Soviet block countries. Now these guys make $80-$100k for jobs that would otherwise pay $125-$150k for a US citizen. Now I have no hate for that labor group. My experience is they are good hard working people and I call many long time friends. Its an eye opening aspect of the labor force IMO, and the politicians will NEVER push back on that because its money right out of the pockets of their biggest donors. The swamp runs deep and with many twists and turns.

Bottom line is regardless of recent job growth under Barak and now Trump, wage growth is stagnant and the $ is weak. Those are bad. That means the new jobs being created are low level. Not the stuff "GREAT" is build on. It also means that the value of stocks goes up, commodities go up, property values go up... everyone with STUFF is happy. Lots of of those just below middle class jobs to keep people buying cars, going to walmart, living paycheck to paycheck, racking in overdraft fees and ensuring their kids follow in similar footsteps because college is for people with money.

This is the democrat in me. We need to offer better to EVERYONE. That is what makes America great again. A smarter workforce, not one that ensures there is a ditch to dig for everyone.

I dont have all the answers, but I do know most people dont understand the question. Its big and has to be chipped away at. I know more jobs in coal and looser restrictions and regulations on what corporations and banks can do isnt the answer. That I know

hey Mike, I like the conversation. I am going to get back to this discussion when I am not running out the door and can give a better response. If you want a window of what I am referring to at the micro level, check out a book called Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis by J.D. Vance. It's a quick read and moves along nicely.

Will do... have a great weekend. TGIF

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

Why not just look at what happened when Bush was POTUS? Of course Dems would not be satisfied. However the rules of engagement were different. Were there mass protests? When we never found the WMDs we went to war over did Bush blast the media and call them liars and fake news?

Of course liberals were against him. The difference is despite some bad moves by GW, and his sometimes country bumkin demeanor Bush was not a national embarrassment.

Right now all GOP legislation and agendas are all straight up anti environment, pro wealth and pro corporation. Those 3 all go hand in hand. If EPA restrictions are costing you money and those pesky pollution controls are hurting your bottom line, than the GOP is the party for you.

Policy is policy. GOP puts the money with the companies. That puts the money with the rich. That puts the environment at risk. They are anti social programs. Yes.. the programs that generally benefit minorities. Yes, those programs. You will get more military spending. You will get lower taxes. This is the pattern we see.

Make no mistake. Dems are bad also. To protect the environment they piss money away on poorly conceived green energy programs. They dump money into anything and everything. The long resting members of the party are terrible. Washington is a swamp... No doubt. Politicans are terrible in the country right now. But to answer your question Rookie.. from a political standpoint no liberal is going to be happy with Pence. However he will act presidential and not embarrass us. That would be start. He would be infinitely more qualified as well, and probably have a basic understanding of what goverment does and how it works. Things Trumps lacks

Totally agree. Don't even get me started on the army corp of engineers and pork barrel spending. It is a swamp and everyone knows it. Draining the swamp was good salesmanship, it resonates with people, especially when they are strugling to just get by every month.

To just focus in one one point, manufacturing jobs, you will see the devastation around the country where smaller towns that depended on these industries are now devastated. Then you have to ask yourself, where did these manufacturing plants go and why did they go there when skilled labor is plentiful right here.

Trade agreements, cheaper labor, lesser enviromental restrictions, competitive balance. All things at the core of Trumps agenda that every other politician was afraid to take head on. Problem with Trump is he is such a clown and a circus sideshow that the message is lost. He has zero diplomatic finesse.

Where I live is a microcosm of this country. It puts things in a different perspective then if you live in NY, CT or NJ

Well here is where I disagree with... on the jobs point. The job numbers have been growing for many years. Obama had very strong job numbers. The problem is wage growth. These devastated industries you talk about... there is such a thing as times change. Yes there will collateral damage. There always is. Do we bring back blockbuster and palmer video stores to bring back the lost jobs from those devastated industries? Of course not.. but we do it for dying industries. Bernie Sanders was a bit exreme in this but we need to invest in real education. We are sorely behind. The country isnt hurting from losing coal and auto jobs. Its losing from KEEPING those jobs. If you want to make America great educate those job up.

Does it bother you? The struggle to keep these jobs that pay $35-50k a year, meanwhile all the REAL money goes to big companies. Those companies then take valuable REAL career jobs like everything in IT, and bring in cheaper labor on visas from India and Eastern former Soviet block countries. Now these guys make $80-$100k for jobs that would otherwise pay $125-$150k for a US citizen. Now I have no hate for that labor group. My experience is they are good hard working people and I call many long time friends. Its an eye opening aspect of the labor force IMO, and the politicians will NEVER push back on that because its money right out of the pockets of their biggest donors. The swamp runs deep and with many twists and turns.

Bottom line is regardless of recent job growth under Barak and now Trump, wage growth is stagnant and the $ is weak. Those are bad. That means the new jobs being created are low level. Not the stuff "GREAT" is build on. It also means that the value of stocks goes up, commodities go up, property values go up... everyone with STUFF is happy. Lots of of those just below middle class jobs to keep people buying cars, going to walmart, living paycheck to paycheck, racking in overdraft fees and ensuring their kids follow in similar footsteps because college is for people with money.

This is the democrat in me. We need to offer better to EVERYONE. That is what makes America great again. A smarter workforce, not one that ensures there is a ditch to dig for everyone.

I dont have all the answers, but I do know most people dont understand the question. Its big and has to be chipped away at. I know more jobs in coal and looser restrictions and regulations on what corporations and banks can do isnt the answer. That I know

hey Mike, I like the conversation. I am going to get back to this discussion when I am not running out the door and can give a better response. If you want a window of what I am referring to at the micro level, check out a book called Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis by J.D. Vance. It's a quick read and moves along nicely.

Will do... have a great weekend. TGIF

Living in NYC you're exposed to extremely religious people all the time, it doesn't make them extremists. If my daughter is over at a friends house and they are Hasidic I respect their rules when I am in their house ir if they are at mine. How is that dangerous.

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

Why not just look at what happened when Bush was POTUS? Of course Dems would not be satisfied. However the rules of engagement were different. Were there mass protests? When we never found the WMDs we went to war over did Bush blast the media and call them liars and fake news?

Of course liberals were against him. The difference is despite some bad moves by GW, and his sometimes country bumkin demeanor Bush was not a national embarrassment.

Right now all GOP legislation and agendas are all straight up anti environment, pro wealth and pro corporation. Those 3 all go hand in hand. If EPA restrictions are costing you money and those pesky pollution controls are hurting your bottom line, than the GOP is the party for you.

Policy is policy. GOP puts the money with the companies. That puts the money with the rich. That puts the environment at risk. They are anti social programs. Yes.. the programs that generally benefit minorities. Yes, those programs. You will get more military spending. You will get lower taxes. This is the pattern we see.

Make no mistake. Dems are bad also. To protect the environment they piss money away on poorly conceived green energy programs. They dump money into anything and everything. The long resting members of the party are terrible. Washington is a swamp... No doubt. Politicans are terrible in the country right now. But to answer your question Rookie.. from a political standpoint no liberal is going to be happy with Pence. However he will act presidential and not embarrass us. That would be start. He would be infinitely more qualified as well, and probably have a basic understanding of what goverment does and how it works. Things Trumps lacks

Totally agree. Don't even get me started on the army corp of engineers and pork barrel spending. It is a swamp and everyone knows it. Draining the swamp was good salesmanship, it resonates with people, especially when they are strugling to just get by every month.

To just focus in one one point, manufacturing jobs, you will see the devastation around the country where smaller towns that depended on these industries are now devastated. Then you have to ask yourself, where did these manufacturing plants go and why did they go there when skilled labor is plentiful right here.

Trade agreements, cheaper labor, lesser enviromental restrictions, competitive balance. All things at the core of Trumps agenda that every other politician was afraid to take head on. Problem with Trump is he is such a clown and a circus sideshow that the message is lost. He has zero diplomatic finesse.

Where I live is a microcosm of this country. It puts things in a different perspective then if you live in NY, CT or NJ

Well here is where I disagree with... on the jobs point. The job numbers have been growing for many years. Obama had very strong job numbers. The problem is wage growth. These devastated industries you talk about... there is such a thing as times change. Yes there will collateral damage. There always is. Do we bring back blockbuster and palmer video stores to bring back the lost jobs from those devastated industries? Of course not.. but we do it for dying industries. Bernie Sanders was a bit exreme in this but we need to invest in real education. We are sorely behind. The country isnt hurting from losing coal and auto jobs. Its losing from KEEPING those jobs. If you want to make America great educate those job up.

Does it bother you? The struggle to keep these jobs that pay $35-50k a year, meanwhile all the REAL money goes to big companies. Those companies then take valuable REAL career jobs like everything in IT, and bring in cheaper labor on visas from India and Eastern former Soviet block countries. Now these guys make $80-$100k for jobs that would otherwise pay $125-$150k for a US citizen. Now I have no hate for that labor group. My experience is they are good hard working people and I call many long time friends. Its an eye opening aspect of the labor force IMO, and the politicians will NEVER push back on that because its money right out of the pockets of their biggest donors. The swamp runs deep and with many twists and turns.

Bottom line is regardless of recent job growth under Barak and now Trump, wage growth is stagnant and the $ is weak. Those are bad. That means the new jobs being created are low level. Not the stuff "GREAT" is build on. It also means that the value of stocks goes up, commodities go up, property values go up... everyone with STUFF is happy. Lots of of those just below middle class jobs to keep people buying cars, going to walmart, living paycheck to paycheck, racking in overdraft fees and ensuring their kids follow in similar footsteps because college is for people with money.

This is the democrat in me. We need to offer better to EVERYONE. That is what makes America great again. A smarter workforce, not one that ensures there is a ditch to dig for everyone.

I dont have all the answers, but I do know most people dont understand the question. Its big and has to be chipped away at. I know more jobs in coal and looser restrictions and regulations on what corporations and banks can do isnt the answer. That I know

hey Mike, I like the conversation. I am going to get back to this discussion when I am not running out the door and can give a better response. If you want a window of what I am referring to at the micro level, check out a book called Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis by J.D. Vance. It's a quick read and moves along nicely.

Will do... have a great weekend. TGIF

Living in NYC you're exposed to extremely religious people all the time, it doesn't make them extremists. If my daughter is over at a friends house and they are Hasidic I respect their rules when I am in their house ir if they are at mine. How is that dangerous.

That, however, is the wrong analogy.

Not a question of whom you allow or not in your home or what conditions you require guests to meet to be welcome there. Knocks yourself out.

It's altogether different topic when it comes to a public utility.

Say you got 7 people.

One person is uncomfortable around transgender people and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around black people and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around obese people and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around psychologically or physically challenged people and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around older people and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around people who appear to be poor and/or lacking advance education and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around atheists and don't want to use the same bathroom.

Which person(s) deserve the legal protection to be comfortable in a public bathroom (as opposed to just walking out if they are) and why?

Knickoftime wrote:

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

Why not just look at what happened when Bush was POTUS? Of course Dems would not be satisfied. However the rules of engagement were different. Were there mass protests? When we never found the WMDs we went to war over did Bush blast the media and call them liars and fake news?

Of course liberals were against him. The difference is despite some bad moves by GW, and his sometimes country bumkin demeanor Bush was not a national embarrassment.

Right now all GOP legislation and agendas are all straight up anti environment, pro wealth and pro corporation. Those 3 all go hand in hand. If EPA restrictions are costing you money and those pesky pollution controls are hurting your bottom line, than the GOP is the party for you.

Policy is policy. GOP puts the money with the companies. That puts the money with the rich. That puts the environment at risk. They are anti social programs. Yes.. the programs that generally benefit minorities. Yes, those programs. You will get more military spending. You will get lower taxes. This is the pattern we see.

Make no mistake. Dems are bad also. To protect the environment they piss money away on poorly conceived green energy programs. They dump money into anything and everything. The long resting members of the party are terrible. Washington is a swamp... No doubt. Politicans are terrible in the country right now. But to answer your question Rookie.. from a political standpoint no liberal is going to be happy with Pence. However he will act presidential and not embarrass us. That would be start. He would be infinitely more qualified as well, and probably have a basic understanding of what goverment does and how it works. Things Trumps lacks

Totally agree. Don't even get me started on the army corp of engineers and pork barrel spending. It is a swamp and everyone knows it. Draining the swamp was good salesmanship, it resonates with people, especially when they are strugling to just get by every month.

To just focus in one one point, manufacturing jobs, you will see the devastation around the country where smaller towns that depended on these industries are now devastated. Then you have to ask yourself, where did these manufacturing plants go and why did they go there when skilled labor is plentiful right here.

Trade agreements, cheaper labor, lesser enviromental restrictions, competitive balance. All things at the core of Trumps agenda that every other politician was afraid to take head on. Problem with Trump is he is such a clown and a circus sideshow that the message is lost. He has zero diplomatic finesse.

Where I live is a microcosm of this country. It puts things in a different perspective then if you live in NY, CT or NJ

Well here is where I disagree with... on the jobs point. The job numbers have been growing for many years. Obama had very strong job numbers. The problem is wage growth. These devastated industries you talk about... there is such a thing as times change. Yes there will collateral damage. There always is. Do we bring back blockbuster and palmer video stores to bring back the lost jobs from those devastated industries? Of course not.. but we do it for dying industries. Bernie Sanders was a bit exreme in this but we need to invest in real education. We are sorely behind. The country isnt hurting from losing coal and auto jobs. Its losing from KEEPING those jobs. If you want to make America great educate those job up.

Does it bother you? The struggle to keep these jobs that pay $35-50k a year, meanwhile all the REAL money goes to big companies. Those companies then take valuable REAL career jobs like everything in IT, and bring in cheaper labor on visas from India and Eastern former Soviet block countries. Now these guys make $80-$100k for jobs that would otherwise pay $125-$150k for a US citizen. Now I have no hate for that labor group. My experience is they are good hard working people and I call many long time friends. Its an eye opening aspect of the labor force IMO, and the politicians will NEVER push back on that because its money right out of the pockets of their biggest donors. The swamp runs deep and with many twists and turns.

Bottom line is regardless of recent job growth under Barak and now Trump, wage growth is stagnant and the $ is weak. Those are bad. That means the new jobs being created are low level. Not the stuff "GREAT" is build on. It also means that the value of stocks goes up, commodities go up, property values go up... everyone with STUFF is happy. Lots of of those just below middle class jobs to keep people buying cars, going to walmart, living paycheck to paycheck, racking in overdraft fees and ensuring their kids follow in similar footsteps because college is for people with money.

This is the democrat in me. We need to offer better to EVERYONE. That is what makes America great again. A smarter workforce, not one that ensures there is a ditch to dig for everyone.

I dont have all the answers, but I do know most people dont understand the question. Its big and has to be chipped away at. I know more jobs in coal and looser restrictions and regulations on what corporations and banks can do isnt the answer. That I know

hey Mike, I like the conversation. I am going to get back to this discussion when I am not running out the door and can give a better response. If you want a window of what I am referring to at the micro level, check out a book called Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis by J.D. Vance. It's a quick read and moves along nicely.

Will do... have a great weekend. TGIF

Living in NYC you're exposed to extremely religious people all the time, it doesn't make them extremists. If my daughter is over at a friends house and they are Hasidic I respect their rules when I am in their house ir if they are at mine. How is that dangerous.

That, however, is the wrong analogy.

Not a question of whom you allow or not in your home or what conditions you require guests to meet to be welcome there. Knocks yourself out.

It's altogether different topic when it comes to a public utility.

Say you got 7 people.

One person is uncomfortable around transgender people and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around black people and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around obese people and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around psychologically or physically challenged people and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around older people and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around people who appear to be poor and/or lacking advance education and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around atheists and don't want to use the same bathroom.

Which person(s) deserve the legal protection to be comfortable in a public bathroom (as opposed to just walking out if they are) and why?

My wife and I were at Central Park one beautiful afternoon and the park was crowded. We went to use the restroom and the line to the ladies room was extremely long. My wife was waiting in line while I walked right into the men's room. Two ladies wearing bikinis (I'm assuming they were at the park sunbathing) walked in the men's room, went into the stalls, did their business, washed their hands and left. Nobody batted an eye, nobody got raped, no cat calls, nothing.

To me, this bathroom/comfortable thing is much ado about nothing.

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:Let's play a game....Pence is now POTUS. How do liberals react to Pence's conservative agenda? My guess is it's just more of the same bipartisan freak out. Doesn't matter who sits in the chair, as long as it is a Republican the liberals will not be satisfied. The outcry about Trump will morph into the outcry about Pence.

Why not just look at what happened when Bush was POTUS? Of course Dems would not be satisfied. However the rules of engagement were different. Were there mass protests? When we never found the WMDs we went to war over did Bush blast the media and call them liars and fake news?

Of course liberals were against him. The difference is despite some bad moves by GW, and his sometimes country bumkin demeanor Bush was not a national embarrassment.

Right now all GOP legislation and agendas are all straight up anti environment, pro wealth and pro corporation. Those 3 all go hand in hand. If EPA restrictions are costing you money and those pesky pollution controls are hurting your bottom line, than the GOP is the party for you.

Policy is policy. GOP puts the money with the companies. That puts the money with the rich. That puts the environment at risk. They are anti social programs. Yes.. the programs that generally benefit minorities. Yes, those programs. You will get more military spending. You will get lower taxes. This is the pattern we see.

Make no mistake. Dems are bad also. To protect the environment they piss money away on poorly conceived green energy programs. They dump money into anything and everything. The long resting members of the party are terrible. Washington is a swamp... No doubt. Politicans are terrible in the country right now. But to answer your question Rookie.. from a political standpoint no liberal is going to be happy with Pence. However he will act presidential and not embarrass us. That would be start. He would be infinitely more qualified as well, and probably have a basic understanding of what goverment does and how it works. Things Trumps lacks

Totally agree. Don't even get me started on the army corp of engineers and pork barrel spending. It is a swamp and everyone knows it. Draining the swamp was good salesmanship, it resonates with people, especially when they are strugling to just get by every month.

To just focus in one one point, manufacturing jobs, you will see the devastation around the country where smaller towns that depended on these industries are now devastated. Then you have to ask yourself, where did these manufacturing plants go and why did they go there when skilled labor is plentiful right here.

Trade agreements, cheaper labor, lesser enviromental restrictions, competitive balance. All things at the core of Trumps agenda that every other politician was afraid to take head on. Problem with Trump is he is such a clown and a circus sideshow that the message is lost. He has zero diplomatic finesse.

Where I live is a microcosm of this country. It puts things in a different perspective then if you live in NY, CT or NJ

Well here is where I disagree with... on the jobs point. The job numbers have been growing for many years. Obama had very strong job numbers. The problem is wage growth. These devastated industries you talk about... there is such a thing as times change. Yes there will collateral damage. There always is. Do we bring back blockbuster and palmer video stores to bring back the lost jobs from those devastated industries? Of course not.. but we do it for dying industries. Bernie Sanders was a bit exreme in this but we need to invest in real education. We are sorely behind. The country isnt hurting from losing coal and auto jobs. Its losing from KEEPING those jobs. If you want to make America great educate those job up.

Does it bother you? The struggle to keep these jobs that pay $35-50k a year, meanwhile all the REAL money goes to big companies. Those companies then take valuable REAL career jobs like everything in IT, and bring in cheaper labor on visas from India and Eastern former Soviet block countries. Now these guys make $80-$100k for jobs that would otherwise pay $125-$150k for a US citizen. Now I have no hate for that labor group. My experience is they are good hard working people and I call many long time friends. Its an eye opening aspect of the labor force IMO, and the politicians will NEVER push back on that because its money right out of the pockets of their biggest donors. The swamp runs deep and with many twists and turns.

Bottom line is regardless of recent job growth under Barak and now Trump, wage growth is stagnant and the $ is weak. Those are bad. That means the new jobs being created are low level. Not the stuff "GREAT" is build on. It also means that the value of stocks goes up, commodities go up, property values go up... everyone with STUFF is happy. Lots of of those just below middle class jobs to keep people buying cars, going to walmart, living paycheck to paycheck, racking in overdraft fees and ensuring their kids follow in similar footsteps because college is for people with money.

This is the democrat in me. We need to offer better to EVERYONE. That is what makes America great again. A smarter workforce, not one that ensures there is a ditch to dig for everyone.

I dont have all the answers, but I do know most people dont understand the question. Its big and has to be chipped away at. I know more jobs in coal and looser restrictions and regulations on what corporations and banks can do isnt the answer. That I know

hey Mike, I like the conversation. I am going to get back to this discussion when I am not running out the door and can give a better response. If you want a window of what I am referring to at the micro level, check out a book called Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis by J.D. Vance. It's a quick read and moves along nicely.

Will do... have a great weekend. TGIF

Living in NYC you're exposed to extremely religious people all the time, it doesn't make them extremists. If my daughter is over at a friends house and they are Hasidic I respect their rules when I am in their house ir if they are at mine. How is that dangerous.

That, however, is the wrong analogy.

Not a question of whom you allow or not in your home or what conditions you require guests to meet to be welcome there. Knocks yourself out.

It's altogether different topic when it comes to a public utility.

Say you got 7 people.

One person is uncomfortable around transgender people and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around black people and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around obese people and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around psychologically or physically challenged people and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around older people and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around people who appear to be poor and/or lacking advance education and don't want to use the same bathroom.

One is uncomfortable around atheists and don't want to use the same bathroom.

Which person(s) deserve the legal protection to be comfortable in a public bathroom (as opposed to just walking out if they are) and why?

My wife and I were at Central Park one beautiful afternoon and the park was crowded. We went to use the restroom and the line to the ladies room was extremely long. My wife was waiting in line while I walked right into the men's room. Two ladies wearing bikinis (I'm assuming they were at the park sunbathing) walked in the men's room, went into the stalls, did their business, washed their hands and left. Nobody batted an eye, nobody got raped, no cat calls, nothing.

To me, this bathroom/comfortable thing is much ado about nothing.

Of course it is. It is a test-the-system issue.

Had a conversation with somebody who used their six-year old daughter to demonstrate the pitfalls of having someone with male genitalia walk into the same bathroom (as if there was a way to know).

Asked if they would be more comfortable if someone who by all appearances presented as male walked in. Needless to say I didn't get an answer that one.