Off Topic · Off Topic: six months later, do people who voted for Trump still support this guy? (page 18)

WaltLongmire @ 8/12/2017 7:24 PM
WaltLongmire @ 8/12/2017 7:26 PM
WaltLongmire @ 8/12/2017 7:29 PM
TheGame @ 8/12/2017 8:24 PM
Trump has not condemned this white supremacist because this is his base voters. He does not get respected without these racist so he is not going to say anything negative directly about them. It really is appalling.
smackeddog @ 8/13/2017 5:01 PM
Good stuff:

Welpee @ 8/13/2017 5:57 PM
smackeddog wrote:Good stuff:

I don't know. No matter how I feel about somebody's position I don't like seeing this.
nixluva @ 8/13/2017 6:33 PM
Welpee wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Good stuff:

I don't know. No matter how I feel about somebody's position I don't like seeing this.

I think perhaps you forget just what he stands for! I'm 52 my mother, father and both grandmothers are all alive. Guys like this dude used to TERRORIZE my parents and grandparents. I was chased as a boy by a group of guys like this when I was visiting my Grandparents in North Carolina. Thank God they didn't catch me!!! I don't believe in violence but I can FULLY understand how anger at White Supremacists can make people lose it. F those guys!

djsunyc @ 8/13/2017 7:08 PM
Welpee wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Good stuff:

I don't know. No matter how I feel about somebody's position I don't like seeing this.

this idiot and his ilk are promoting civil war. you think this f ck and his kind would have any moral doubts if he saw a black person getting chased off? these are evil people - pure evil.

TheGame @ 8/13/2017 11:25 PM
I really don't understand all the hate. This is a great country. Work hard, stay true to your family, and stay out of trouble and there is no reason anyone cannot have at least a decent life in this country. Why are white people who have every advantage in the world protesting. F**k general robert e Lee. Since when do we have statutes of traitors to the republic in front of buildings, because news flash, all these civil war icons they are fighting to honor were traitors to the country in every sense of the word. Why any governement building would have any of them on it is beyond me and that is not even talking about the racial issued. The whole thing is stupid and slimy Trump is so worried about losing the vote of these white supremacist that he suddenly has nothing to say. People are literally plowing cars over people over what. Make America great again, when was America not great. Where did it go, and these white supremacist are going to bring it back? The only good thing is that it shows how alive and well racism is while our president is focused on trying to dismantale affirmative action in higher education.
GustavBahler @ 8/14/2017 1:11 AM
Welpee wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Good stuff:

I don't know. No matter how I feel about somebody's position I don't like seeing this.

I dont believe its hyperbole to describe those white power protesters as being fascists. The only way you stop fascists is to stand up to them. No other way. A couple of jokes on SNL wont do it.

Not so long ago these extremists would have been considered the fringe, Trump is trying to make them, and their shared views, mainstream.

You dont keep a book of Hitler's speeches by your nightstand if you plan on governing like Lincoln, or even Reagan.

meloshouldgo @ 8/14/2017 6:42 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
Welpee wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Good stuff:

I don't know. No matter how I feel about somebody's position I don't like seeing this.

I dont believe its hyperbole to describe those white power protesters as being fascists. The only way you stop fascists is to stand up to them. No other way. A couple of jokes on SNL wont do it.

Not so long ago these extremists would have been considered the fringe, Trump is trying to make them, and their shared views, mainstream.

You dont keep a book of Hitler's speeches by your nightstand if you plan on governing like Lincoln, or even Reagan.

I don't want to come off sounding high and moral and I completely understand where you guys are coming from. But I am with Welpee in this. The Constitution gives him the right to talk about his hateful filth in public and he should be permitted to do so. Otherwise we can't claim we have Free speech when it suits us and not observe it when it doesn't. Trump election is uniquely uncovering some aspects of the system a lot of people are uncomfortable with-

Electoral college vs. true democracy = oppression of the minority
Extremism becoming mainstream under the guise of freedom of speech
What used to be fringe in Reagan's time is already mainstream
The right invokes the Constitution when it comes to the above but are hypocrite about it when it comes to separation of church an be state and it started with Elito

GustavBahler @ 8/14/2017 10:39 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Welpee wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Good stuff:

I don't know. No matter how I feel about somebody's position I don't like seeing this.

I dont believe its hyperbole to describe those white power protesters as being fascists. The only way you stop fascists is to stand up to them. No other way. A couple of jokes on SNL wont do it.

Not so long ago these extremists would have been considered the fringe, Trump is trying to make them, and their shared views, mainstream.

You dont keep a book of Hitler's speeches by your nightstand if you plan on governing like Lincoln, or even Reagan.

I don't want to come off sounding high and moral and I completely understand where you guys are coming from. But I am with Welpee in this. The Constitution gives him the right to talk about his hateful filth in public and he should be permitted to do so. Otherwise we can't claim we have Free speech when it suits us and not observe it when it doesn't. Trump election is uniquely uncovering some aspects of the system a lot of people are uncomfortable with-

Electoral college vs. true democracy = oppression of the minority
Extremism becoming mainstream under the guise of freedom of speech
What used to be fringe in Reagan's time is already mainstream
The right invokes the Constitution when it comes to the above but are hypocrite about it when it comes to separation of church an be state and it started with Elito

Should have said that at the rally while one of them tried to run your ass over. They arent interested in democracy, this is a hostile takeover. You dont stop that with platitudes.

Knickoftime @ 8/14/2017 10:42 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Welpee wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Good stuff:

I don't know. No matter how I feel about somebody's position I don't like seeing this.

I dont believe its hyperbole to describe those white power protesters as being fascists. The only way you stop fascists is to stand up to them. No other way. A couple of jokes on SNL wont do it.

Not so long ago these extremists would have been considered the fringe, Trump is trying to make them, and their shared views, mainstream.

You dont keep a book of Hitler's speeches by your nightstand if you plan on governing like Lincoln, or even Reagan.

I don't want to come off sounding high and moral and I completely understand where you guys are coming from. But I am with Welpee in this. The Constitution gives him the right to talk about his hateful filth in public and he should be permitted to do so. Otherwise we can't claim we have Free speech when it suits us and not observe it when it doesn't. Trump election is uniquely uncovering some aspects of the system a lot of people are uncomfortable with-

Not for nothing because this is waaay too important not to get right.

He stood in front of a microphone in public, and the government did not try to stop him, or as far as we know tried to punish him for it or use its powers to try to coerce him not to do it again.

His constitutional rights were in no way violated.

People think of protesters shouting a down the speaker, or boycotting a TV network because of an on air personality as a violation of freedom of speech, but it is not, period.

Now whether you think citizens have some kind of extra-lawful obligation as Americans to stand there quietly and let him speak is another matter, though the counter argument that is they are exercising their 'free speech' in protesting since he chose to speak in public.

Know whether he deserves some kind of state-provided/paid for protection from protesters approaching his microphone which is what occurred, that's another issue I don't have any easy answers for.

But what happened yesterday was not a violation of his constitutional rights. It was a 'violation' of what way too many people incorrectly think of as their right to "free speech."

meloshouldgo @ 8/14/2017 11:03 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Welpee wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Good stuff:

I don't know. No matter how I feel about somebody's position I don't like seeing this.

I dont believe its hyperbole to describe those white power protesters as being fascists. The only way you stop fascists is to stand up to them. No other way. A couple of jokes on SNL wont do it.

Not so long ago these extremists would have been considered the fringe, Trump is trying to make them, and their shared views, mainstream.

You dont keep a book of Hitler's speeches by your nightstand if you plan on governing like Lincoln, or even Reagan.

I don't want to come off sounding high and moral and I completely understand where you guys are coming from. But I am with Welpee in this. The Constitution gives him the right to talk about his hateful filth in public and he should be permitted to do so. Otherwise we can't claim we have Free speech when it suits us and not observe it when it doesn't. Trump election is uniquely uncovering some aspects of the system a lot of people are uncomfortable with-

Not for nothing because this is waaay too important not to get right.

He stood in front of a microphone in public, and the government did not try to stop him, or as far as we know tried to punish him for it or use its powers to try to coerce him not to do it again.

His constitutional rights were in no way violated.

People think of protesters shouting a down the speaker, or boycotting a TV network because of an on air personality as a violation of freedom of speech, but it is not, period.

Now whether you think citizens have some kind of extra-lawful obligation as Americans to stand there quietly and let him speak is another matter, though the counter argument that is they are exercising their 'free speech' in protesting since he chose to speak in public.

Know whether he deserves some kind of state-provided/paid for protection from protesters approaching his microphone which is what occurred, that's another issue I don't have any easy answers for.

But what happened yesterday was not a violation of his constitutional rights. It was a 'violation' of what way too many people incorrectly think of as their right to "free speech."

I never said his rights were violated. I said I agree with Welpee who I thought was pointing out it's important to uphold his rights. Some others were making the case that he is inciting hatred and violence so it's ok to "stand up to him" and I don't think that's ok.

To me it comes down to the following-

You can't legislate morality
You can't penalize intent (unless you are going to make 1984 real)

Even intent to commit genocide being openly discussed in itself is not a crime - whether it should be a crime is a whole different issue, that I expressly did not address.
(EDIT)- If you are discussing a detailed plan for a specific future incident that may qualify as a crime? I don't really know, I am no lawyer. I think you would still need Habeas Corpus

Rookie @ 8/14/2017 11:12 AM
The issue that I think you all are missing is the pattern of violence that has developed. These rallies attract groups of people whose agenda is to destabilize the rally and create chaos and violence. That is not free speech, it is a danger to the public and to law enforcement groups trying to maintain order.

In my opinion, any protester who has any form of weapon or engages in any aggressive act should be immediately arrested. Anyone who throws anything or acts aggressively in any way should be removed immediately and arrested.

Nalod @ 8/14/2017 11:21 AM
"Make america great" and these clowns bring a confederate flag? They lost the civil war. Seems like many have not gotten over that.
Nazis, they lost their war. Nazi's divided their people against each other.
Trump is too blind by his own greed and self importance to see what he is doing. He is an ignorant man absorbed in himself.
Trump is a child.
nixluva @ 8/14/2017 11:37 AM
Nalod wrote:"Make america great" and these clowns bring a confederate flag? They lost the civil war. Seems like many have not gotten over that.
Nazis, they lost their war. Nazi's divided their people against each other.
Trump is too blind by his own greed and self importance to see what he is doing. He is an ignorant man absorbed in himself.
Trump is a child.

The Civil War NEVER ended for the South. People don't realize that they never gave up their beliefs and immediately went to work trying to re-establish a system as close to Slavery as they could get. The Black Codes and Jim Crow. The Terrorism of the KKK and RedShirts. Civil war ended in 1865 but it took another 100 years to actually enact laws to begin to try and protect the Civil Rights of ALL Americans.

So just so we're clear the beliefs of White Supremacists NEVER ceased in this country. It's literally been one continuous stream from day one up to this day.

GustavBahler @ 8/14/2017 11:53 AM
nixluva wrote:
Nalod wrote:"Make america great" and these clowns bring a confederate flag? They lost the civil war. Seems like many have not gotten over that.
Nazis, they lost their war. Nazi's divided their people against each other.
Trump is too blind by his own greed and self importance to see what he is doing. He is an ignorant man absorbed in himself.
Trump is a child.

The Civil War NEVER ended for the South. People don't realize that they never gave up their beliefs and immediately went to work trying to re-establish a system as close to Slavery as they could get. The Black Codes and Jim Crow. The Terrorism of the KKK and RedShirts. Civil war ended in 1865 but it took another 100 years to actually enact laws to begin to try and protect the Civil Rights of ALL Americans.

So just so we're clear the beliefs of White Supremacists NEVER ceased in this country. It's literally been one continuous stream from day one up to this day.

They came from all over the country to attend this rally. This isn't a strictly southern movement. There was a story about the president of a college republican club from Washington State who was spotted attending the rally.

It used to be about flexing their muscles, but its more than that now. They want power, and they believe they have someone in the White House who will help them get it.

nixluva @ 8/14/2017 12:16 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Nalod wrote:"Make america great" and these clowns bring a confederate flag? They lost the civil war. Seems like many have not gotten over that.
Nazis, they lost their war. Nazi's divided their people against each other.
Trump is too blind by his own greed and self importance to see what he is doing. He is an ignorant man absorbed in himself.
Trump is a child.

The Civil War NEVER ended for the South. People don't realize that they never gave up their beliefs and immediately went to work trying to re-establish a system as close to Slavery as they could get. The Black Codes and Jim Crow. The Terrorism of the KKK and RedShirts. Civil war ended in 1865 but it took another 100 years to actually enact laws to begin to try and protect the Civil Rights of ALL Americans.

So just so we're clear the beliefs of White Supremacists NEVER ceased in this country. It's literally been one continuous stream from day one up to this day.

They came from all over the country to attend this rally. This isn't a strictly southern movement. There was a story about the president of a college republican club from Washington State who was spotted attending the rally.

It used to be about flexing their muscles, but its more than that now. They want power, and they believe they have someone in the White House who will help them get it.

Of Course this is a disease that isn't contained in the South anymore. I'm just referencing where it started and has been festering for a very long time and it's not just in this country either. This is a worldwide movement of hate.

smackeddog @ 8/14/2017 12:22 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Welpee wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Good stuff:

I don't know. No matter how I feel about somebody's position I don't like seeing this.

I dont believe its hyperbole to describe those white power protesters as being fascists. The only way you stop fascists is to stand up to them. No other way. A couple of jokes on SNL wont do it.

Not so long ago these extremists would have been considered the fringe, Trump is trying to make them, and their shared views, mainstream.

You dont keep a book of Hitler's speeches by your nightstand if you plan on governing like Lincoln, or even Reagan.

I don't want to come off sounding high and moral and I completely understand where you guys are coming from. But I am with Welpee in this. The Constitution gives him the right to talk about his hateful filth in public and he should be permitted to do so. Otherwise we can't claim we have Free speech when it suits us and not observe it when it doesn't. Trump election is uniquely uncovering some aspects of the system a lot of people are uncomfortable with-

So if you were to travel back in time to 1930s Germany, you'd spend your time there defending Nazi's rights to free speech?

Rookie @ 8/14/2017 12:23 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Nalod wrote:"Make america great" and these clowns bring a confederate flag? They lost the civil war. Seems like many have not gotten over that.
Nazis, they lost their war. Nazi's divided their people against each other.
Trump is too blind by his own greed and self importance to see what he is doing. He is an ignorant man absorbed in himself.
Trump is a child.

The Civil War NEVER ended for the South. People don't realize that they never gave up their beliefs and immediately went to work trying to re-establish a system as close to Slavery as they could get. The Black Codes and Jim Crow. The Terrorism of the KKK and RedShirts. Civil war ended in 1865 but it took another 100 years to actually enact laws to begin to try and protect the Civil Rights of ALL Americans.

So just so we're clear the beliefs of White Supremacists NEVER ceased in this country. It's literally been one continuous stream from day one up to this day.

They came from all over the country to attend this rally. This isn't a strictly southern movement. There was a story about the president of a college republican club from Washington State who was spotted attending the rally.

It used to be about flexing their muscles, but its more than that now. They want power, and they believe they have someone in the White House who will help them get it.

It does look as if Republicans and Democrats will work together to investigate white supremacist groups as home grown terrorists following the tragedy in Charlottesville.

I am so freaking angry today I can barely speak or function. This should never have happened. How is it even possible for a hate group to show up for a rally with assault weapons and riot gear and claim freedom of speech. It was clear from the beginning that there would be violence.

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