Off Topic · Off Topic: six months later, do people who voted for Trump still support this guy? (page 71)

newyorknewyork @ 10/19/2017 4:50 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I think sexual assault is a very serious offense which is why I am not willing accuse or label someone that way easily. I laid out the reasons earlier that form my logic. If I was as convinced as you that those actions were committed I would have no problem joining you in your fight.

I'm not either. I haven't accused anybody. I've simply believed an unsolicited admission.

There is no ambiguity in what was posted. There is no ambiguity that this person added that any man who didn't also admit to this was lying. There was ample opportunity to retract, amend, or explain the admission, and the opportunity wasn't taken.

This person hasn't even asked for the benefit of the doubt, but people people are volunteering to offer it anyway.

In my mind, this is part of the problem you identify. Psychologically, our discomfort with the issue makes us put up barriers to except that it occurs in polite society, to the point where like right here and right now, we're finding ways to excuse something that was perfectly plain, even when the person shows no signs they think they require an excuse.

It's frankly bizarre and troubling.

We live in a society of innocent until proven guilty. There isn't enough hard evidence to convict him. Him not retracting, amending or explaining the admission falls in line with the sociopath tendencies that he has been called out for in other topics. He would get clowned sometimes for not claiming his misses on prospects he touted for the draft but quick to throw in the prospect that hit in peoples faces with thread after thread on it. Or how he would make a new thread constantly on the same topic. Which you caught wind of during the whole KP for Josh Jackson saga.

Knickoftime @ 10/19/2017 5:14 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I think sexual assault is a very serious offense which is why I am not willing accuse or label someone that way easily. I laid out the reasons earlier that form my logic. If I was as convinced as you that those actions were committed I would have no problem joining you in your fight.

I'm not either. I haven't accused anybody. I've simply believed an unsolicited admission.

There is no ambiguity in what was posted. There is no ambiguity that this person added that any man who didn't also admit to this was lying. There was ample opportunity to retract, amend, or explain the admission, and the opportunity wasn't taken.

This person hasn't even asked for the benefit of the doubt, but people people are volunteering to offer it anyway.

In my mind, this is part of the problem you identify. Psychologically, our discomfort with the issue makes us put up barriers to except that it occurs in polite society, to the point where like right here and right now, we're finding ways to excuse something that was perfectly plain, even when the person shows no signs they think they require an excuse.

It's frankly bizarre and troubling.

We live in a society of innocent until proven guilty.

Society agrees a confession is sufficient in that regard.

There isn't enough hard evidence to convict him. Him not retracting, amending or explaining the admission falls in line with the sociopath tendencies that he has been called out for in other topics. He would get clowned sometimes for not claiming his misses on prospects he touted for the draft but quick to throw in the prospect that hit in peoples faces with thread after thread on it. Or how he would make a new thread constantly on the same topic. Which you caught wind of during the whole KP for Josh Jackson saga.

So... he gets a pass on completely anti-social rhetoric and remains a member of the community in good standing because everything else he says is so sociopathic we don't take him seriously.

That's... interesting, and new for me.

nixluva @ 10/19/2017 5:25 PM
newyorknewyork @ 10/19/2017 6:08 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I think sexual assault is a very serious offense which is why I am not willing accuse or label someone that way easily. I laid out the reasons earlier that form my logic. If I was as convinced as you that those actions were committed I would have no problem joining you in your fight.

I'm not either. I haven't accused anybody. I've simply believed an unsolicited admission.

There is no ambiguity in what was posted. There is no ambiguity that this person added that any man who didn't also admit to this was lying. There was ample opportunity to retract, amend, or explain the admission, and the opportunity wasn't taken.

This person hasn't even asked for the benefit of the doubt, but people people are volunteering to offer it anyway.

In my mind, this is part of the problem you identify. Psychologically, our discomfort with the issue makes us put up barriers to except that it occurs in polite society, to the point where like right here and right now, we're finding ways to excuse something that was perfectly plain, even when the person shows no signs they think they require an excuse.

It's frankly bizarre and troubling.

We live in a society of innocent until proven guilty.

Society agrees a confession is sufficient in that regard.

There isn't enough hard evidence to convict him. Him not retracting, amending or explaining the admission falls in line with the sociopath tendencies that he has been called out for in other topics. He would get clowned sometimes for not claiming his misses on prospects he touted for the draft but quick to throw in the prospect that hit in peoples faces with thread after thread on it. Or how he would make a new thread constantly on the same topic. Which you caught wind of during the whole KP for Josh Jackson saga.

So... he gets a pass on completely anti-social rhetoric and remains a member of the community in good standing because everything else he says is so sociopathic we don't take him seriously.

That's... interesting, and new for me.

A follow up question would have been asked if he ever personally sexually assaulted women for it to lead to confession. Him saying everyone grabs women by the pussy isn't exactly a confession as it isn't even an accurate proclamation. You would also have to prove he meant literally and not just in terms of locker room talk which I believe he was insinuating.

The examples I gave was more so an observation to why even if he miss spoke. Based on his previous history he isn't one to correct himself. So doesn't automatically mean that because he didn't back track that he admits guilt to literally grabbing women by the pussy.

More hard evidence would be needed.

nixluva @ 10/20/2017 12:28 AM
nixluva @ 10/20/2017 1:34 PM
Knickoftime @ 10/20/2017 5:53 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:A follow up question would have been asked if he ever personally sexually assaulted women for it to lead to confession. Him saying everyone grabs women by the pussy isn't exactly a confession as it isn't even an accurate proclamation. You would also have to prove he meant literally and not just in terms of locker room talk which I believe he was insinuating.

So the burden of proof is on others to prove he's done what he said he's done?

Why?

Let's run with this anyway just for the hell of it. Let's for the sake of discussion say we know better than he does about the things he's done, why is even committing the act he says he's committed even relevant? This forum is purely rhetorical, isn't the quality of the rhetoric the entire point??

So I can around posting awful, distasteful, disturbing things and as long as there's no 'proof' I actually did them it's all good?

Really?

VCoug @ 10/20/2017 10:50 PM
nixluva wrote:

This is seriously disgusting. Kelly needs to apologize to Congresswoman Wilson and to the American people for completely lying about this. Not one thing he said is backed up in the video. Can't help but believe that he said this because she's black and she's a woman.

TPercy @ 10/21/2017 2:40 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:A follow up question would have been asked if he ever personally sexually assaulted women for it to lead to confession. Him saying everyone grabs women by the pussy isn't exactly a confession as it isn't even an accurate proclamation. You would also have to prove he meant literally and not just in terms of locker room talk which I believe he was insinuating.

So the burden of proof is on others to prove he's done what he said he's done?

Why?

Let's run with this anyway just for the hell of it. Let's for the sake of discussion say we know better than he does about the things he's done, why is even committing the act he says he's committed even relevant? This forum is purely rhetorical, isn't the quality of the rhetoric the entire point??

So I can around posting awful, distasteful, disturbing things and as long as there's no 'proof' I actually did them it's all good?

Really?


No sir. In the released tape he said that the women "let" him do it. Its sexual misconduct, but not exactly sexual assault.

That being said given the list of accusations against Trump, some in the form of the manner that Trump himself described, I am more than inclined to believe that he has in fact done those things when he wasn't welcome. If only it had come out during the Republican primaries( and Ted Cruz and his other mates hadn't wooed him) and the Democrats picked anyone other than Hillary I think we would be seeing a different story IMO.

TPercy @ 10/21/2017 2:43 PM
VCoug wrote:
nixluva wrote:

This is seriously disgusting. Kelly needs to apologize to Congresswoman Wilson and to the American people for completely lying about this. Not one thing he said is backed up in the video. Can't help but believe that he said this because she's black and she's a woman.


Really? Are you being serious? You can't believe any other reason for Kelly doing this after what happened this past week?
nixluva @ 10/21/2017 3:29 PM
TPercy wrote:
VCoug wrote:
nixluva wrote:

This is seriously disgusting. Kelly needs to apologize to Congresswoman Wilson and to the American people for completely lying about this. Not one thing he said is backed up in the video. Can't help but believe that he said this because she's black and she's a woman.


Really? Are you being serious? You can't believe any other reason for Kelly doing this after what happened this past week?

There’s at least some question about why Trump and his Administration seem to have so much more venom towards Black Women who speak out. I suggest you look into all the many instances that have been written about. It’s a real thing. Republicans in general seem to have greater disdain for strong Black Women. Look it up.

nixluva @ 10/21/2017 3:30 PM
newyorknewyork @ 10/21/2017 3:47 PM
TPercy wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:A follow up question would have been asked if he ever personally sexually assaulted women for it to lead to confession. Him saying everyone grabs women by the pussy isn't exactly a confession as it isn't even an accurate proclamation. You would also have to prove he meant literally and not just in terms of locker room talk which I believe he was insinuating.

So the burden of proof is on others to prove he's done what he said he's done?

Why?

Let's run with this anyway just for the hell of it. Let's for the sake of discussion say we know better than he does about the things he's done, why is even committing the act he says he's committed even relevant? This forum is purely rhetorical, isn't the quality of the rhetoric the entire point??

So I can around posting awful, distasteful, disturbing things and as long as there's no 'proof' I actually did them it's all good?

Really?


No sir. In the released tape he said that the women "let" him do it. Its sexual misconduct, but not exactly sexual assault.

That being said given the list of accusations against Trump, some in the form of the manner that Trump himself described, I am more than inclined to believe that he has in fact done those things when he wasn't welcome. If only it had come out during the Republican primaries( and Ted Cruz and his other mates hadn't wooed him) and the Democrats picked anyone other than Hillary I think we would be seeing a different story IMO.

He was speaking on another poster not about Trump.

And Knickoftime, I don't believe he(Briggs) was speaking on actually "grabbing women by the pussy" but that everyone has spoken explicitly about women when talking among other men. The fact that he stated everyone does this points more towards that being the case then him believing its common practices for every man to sexually assault women. Even if for the sake of discussion he were to have done so personally(sexually assault women). I don't believe he would think its common practice for every man to act this way. But he said that because his thought process was toward speaking on women explicitly and not on sexually assaulting women.

Again I'm just speaking my opinion. I don't have any ties to Briggs and would't really care either way when speaking on his forum membership.

nixluva @ 10/21/2017 4:36 PM
VCoug @ 10/21/2017 4:44 PM
TPercy wrote:
VCoug wrote:
nixluva wrote:

This is seriously disgusting. Kelly needs to apologize to Congresswoman Wilson and to the American people for completely lying about this. Not one thing he said is backed up in the video. Can't help but believe that he said this because she's black and she's a woman.


Really? Are you being serious? You can't believe any other reason for Kelly doing this after what happened this past week?

He either totally misinterpreted her words due to his misogyny and/or racism or he blatantly lied to carry water for Trump. You tell me which one is better?

Knickoftime @ 10/21/2017 5:58 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:A follow up question would have been asked if he ever personally sexually assaulted women for it to lead to confession. Him saying everyone grabs women by the pussy isn't exactly a confession as it isn't even an accurate proclamation. You would also have to prove he meant literally and not just in terms of locker room talk which I believe he was insinuating.

So the burden of proof is on others to prove he's done what he said he's done?

Why?

Let's run with this anyway just for the hell of it. Let's for the sake of discussion say we know better than he does about the things he's done, why is even committing the act he says he's committed even relevant? This forum is purely rhetorical, isn't the quality of the rhetoric the entire point??

So I can around posting awful, distasteful, disturbing things and as long as there's no 'proof' I actually did them it's all good?

Really?


No sir. In the released tape he said that the women "let" him do it. Its sexual misconduct, but not exactly sexual assault.

That being said given the list of accusations against Trump, some in the form of the manner that Trump himself described, I am more than inclined to believe that he has in fact done those things when he wasn't welcome. If only it had come out during the Republican primaries( and Ted Cruz and his other mates hadn't wooed him) and the Democrats picked anyone other than Hillary I think we would be seeing a different story IMO.

He was speaking on another poster not about Trump.

And Knickoftime, I don't believe he(Briggs) was speaking on actually "grabbing women by the pussy" but that everyone has spoken explicitly about women when talking among other men. The fact that he stated everyone does this points more towards that being the case then him believing its common practices for every man to sexually assault women. Even if for the sake of discussion he were to have done so personally(sexually assault women). I don't believe he would think its common practice for every man to act this way. But he said that because his thought process was toward speaking on women explicitly and not on sexually assaulting women.

BRIGGS wrote:Almost every man has grabbed a woman by the pussy martin--I think were adult enough to concede it happens

In the context in which it was said, you have to really want it to interpret it as he just meant men have touched women's genitalia before, which would be the most hilariously obvious statement of all-time.

TPercy @ 10/21/2017 6:03 PM
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
VCoug wrote:
nixluva wrote:

This is seriously disgusting. Kelly needs to apologize to Congresswoman Wilson and to the American people for completely lying about this. Not one thing he said is backed up in the video. Can't help but believe that he said this because she's black and she's a woman.


Really? Are you being serious? You can't believe any other reason for Kelly doing this after what happened this past week?

There’s at least some question about why Trump and his Administration seem to have so much more venom towards Black Women who speak out. I suggest you look into all the many instances that have been written about. It’s a real thing. Republicans in general seem to have greater disdain for strong Black Women. Look it up.

Trump routinely attacks Mccain more than any other person would you claim that he is racist against white old men? This is a huge stretch and there isn't any evidence of it.

TPercy @ 10/21/2017 6:26 PM
VCoug wrote:
TPercy wrote:
VCoug wrote:
nixluva wrote:

This is seriously disgusting. Kelly needs to apologize to Congresswoman Wilson and to the American people for completely lying about this. Not one thing he said is backed up in the video. Can't help but believe that he said this because she's black and she's a woman.


Really? Are you being serious? You can't believe any other reason for Kelly doing this after what happened this past week?

He either totally misinterpreted her words due to his misogyny and/or racism or he blatantly lied to carry water for Trump. You tell me which one is better?


How is Kelly racist? I'm as anti racism as the next guy, but throwing serious labels like this when there is no evidence is the things that keep people like Trump in office. Look at past couple elections, big figures and part of the left and the media kept on saying that Mccain, Romney, and Bush were bigots who waged war on women. All of those accusations were false and every time those accusations were made, not only did the terms "racist", "Sexist" and "bigot" lose their value, people get annoyed that anything thing can be misconstrued offensive. This what allows Trump thrive, where he can say what he want no holds barred and he will be viewed as the righteous leader of the anti PC culture. When he says something that is legitimately racist or sexist, the opposition has no power because the spent the last decade labeling other Republicans the same things that they are accusing Trump and his administration of.


A lot of my more liberal friends try to tell me that Trump's election was a sign of America being sexist and racism and all that, but when you think deeply about it, the mainstream left played a part in it too.

TheGame @ 10/21/2017 8:21 PM
TPercy wrote:
VCoug wrote:
TPercy wrote:
VCoug wrote:
nixluva wrote:

This is seriously disgusting. Kelly needs to apologize to Congresswoman Wilson and to the American people for completely lying about this. Not one thing he said is backed up in the video. Can't help but believe that he said this because she's black and she's a woman.


Really? Are you being serious? You can't believe any other reason for Kelly doing this after what happened this past week?

He either totally misinterpreted her words due to his misogyny and/or racism or he blatantly lied to carry water for Trump. You tell me which one is better?


How is Kelly racist? I'm as anti racism as the next guy, but throwing serious labels like this when there is no evidence is the things that keep people like Trump in office. Look at past couple elections, big figures and part of the left and the media kept on saying that Mccain, Romney, and Bush were bigots who waged war on women. All of those accusations were false and every time those accusations were made, not only did the terms "racist", "Sexist" and "bigot" lose their value, people get annoyed that anything thing can be misconstrued offensive. This what allows Trump thrive, where he can say what he want no holds barred and he will be viewed as the righteous leader of the anti PC culture. When he says something that is legitimately racist or sexist, the opposition has no power because the spent the last decade labeling other Republicans the same things that they are accusing Trump and his administration of.


A lot of my more liberal friends try to tell me that Trump's election was a sign of America being sexist and racism and all that, but when you think deeply about it, the mainstream left played a part in it too.

I don't think Kelly is racist. I do think he has let Trump drag him into the mud and now he is spewing the same lies and half truths as Trump. I thought he was better than that. I suspect he may have been misled but that might be too much to hope for but I am sure no apology will be forthcoming.

VCoug @ 10/21/2017 11:14 PM
TPercy wrote:
VCoug wrote:
TPercy wrote:
VCoug wrote:
nixluva wrote:

This is seriously disgusting. Kelly needs to apologize to Congresswoman Wilson and to the American people for completely lying about this. Not one thing he said is backed up in the video. Can't help but believe that he said this because she's black and she's a woman.


Really? Are you being serious? You can't believe any other reason for Kelly doing this after what happened this past week?

He either totally misinterpreted her words due to his misogyny and/or racism or he blatantly lied to carry water for Trump. You tell me which one is better?


How is Kelly racist? I'm as anti racism as the next guy, but throwing serious labels like this when there is no evidence is the things that keep people like Trump in office. Look at past couple elections, big figures and part of the left and the media kept on saying that Mccain, Romney, and Bush were bigots who waged war on women. All of those accusations were false and every time those accusations were made, not only did the terms "racist", "Sexist" and "bigot" lose their value, people get annoyed that anything thing can be misconstrued offensive. This what allows Trump thrive, where he can say what he want no holds barred and he will be viewed as the righteous leader of the anti PC culture. When he says something that is legitimately racist or sexist, the opposition has no power because the spent the last decade labeling other Republicans the same things that they are accusing Trump and his administration of.


A lot of my more liberal friends try to tell me that Trump's election was a sign of America being sexist and racism and all that, but when you think deeply about it, the mainstream left played a part in it too.

If Kelly honestly remembered Wilson's speech that way it's because he's racist and/or sexist. There's no way someone could misremember a speech that badly; he had to have taken the speech in the completely wrong way and I can only imagine it's because of either her race or her gender. Of course, it's also possible that he's just a huge liar and thought he wouldn't get caught. I'll let you decide which is worse.

I always love the argument that the left calling out dog-whistle bigotry made the right elect an objective racist and sexist. Republicans have used coded language to talk to their constituents and assure them that the policies they'll enact are going to hurt black people. Because they don't come right out and say their policies are racist it gives them plausible deniability but everyone knows what they mean. Of course, you don't need to take my word for it. Listen to Lee Atwater, one of the architects of the Southern Strategy:

nixluva @ 10/21/2017 11:40 PM
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