Knicks · Hold up! Kyrie just requested a trade!!! (page 26)

Uptown @ 7/27/2017 1:52 PM
CrushAlot wrote:

Yeah, I was watching this....afterwards, they clowned the idae of Kyrie comming to the Knicks. They implied that the Cavs front office is a mess, so why would he wan4 to come to Ny where the fron5 office is just as messy?

Uptown @ 7/27/2017 1:58 PM
martin wrote:Can't tell if this has been posted but some interesting stats and breakdowns:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20149...

Irving's stat line has superstar written all over it. In 2016-17 -- his age-24 season -- Irving scored a career-high 25.2 points per game, while sharing the ball with James and Kevin Love. To put his scoring ability in perspective, when James went to the bench last season, Irving's scoring average per 36 minutes soared from 23.2 points to a staggering 35.2 points. Irving can get buckets.

But he is not James Harden or Russell Westbrook. Irving hasn't shown the ability to consistently set up his teammates like this year's MVP and runner-up. In the past three seasons, Irving has spent exactly 2,000 minutes on the floor without James, which amounts to basically a full season of action. During that time, Irving has averaged 30.6 points, 6.3 assists and 3.3 turnovers per 36 minutes. For perspective, Isaiah Thomas last season put up a nearly identical line: 30.8 points, 6.3 assists and 2.9 turnovers per 36 minutes.

As a player, Thomas and Damian Lillard are probably the best comps for Irving, who has struggled to win as the guy. In the 17 games that James has sat the past three seasons with Irving starting, the Cavs' record is a woeful 4-13 (.235). Keep in mind, Love shared the floor with Irving in all but two of those games, so it wasn't like Irving was going at it alone out there. To put that win-loss record in perspective, it is actually lower than the Cavs' win percentage in three seasons with Irving running the show pre-James (.339). Yikes.

That doesn't bode well for Irving. And it looks worse if you turn the tables. When James played without Irving the past three seasons, the Cavs went 25-11 (.694). With Irving off the court and James on the court, the LeBron-led Cavs outscored opponents by 585 points in 3,074 minutes, or plus-9.1 per 48 minutes -- a point margin that would have been good for second in the NBA behind the Golden State Warriors last season.

Let's flip that. With Irving on the court and James off the court, the Irving-led Cavs have been outscored by 94 points in 2,000 minutes, or minus-1.7 per 48 minutes -- a point margin roughly on pace with a New Orleans Pelicans team that finished 14 games under .500 last season. Not good.

What's clear is that when it came to winning basketball games, Irving needed James more than James needed Irving. That dynamic speaks to Irving's one-dimensional game, where he's superb in one-on-one situations but struggles in other areas. As ESPN's Kevin Pelton pointed out, Irving ranks 12th among point guards in real plus-minus, thanks to a defensive RPM that places him 440th among all players on that end of the floor. With defense bogging him down, Irving didn't register in the top 50 overall in RPM last season, nor did he in 2015-16 or 2013-14 (but he finished 38th in 2014-15, before his knee injury).

All-Star ballots, Team USA officials and Nike execs are unanimous: Kyrie Irving is a superstar. But the on-court numbers don't agree. As the No. 1 option on the team, Irving's record in the NBA is 132-247 (.348), or the equivalent of a 29-win team.

To be fair, Irving's sorry record without James the past few seasons has been on a shooter-heavy roster that has largely been geared toward James' talents. Though being surrounded by sharpshooters like Love, JR Smith and Kyle Korver would seemingly help space the floor for Irving's dribble-heavy game, it hasn't delivered winning results, unless James is out there. The Cavs scored a paltry 103.1 points per 100 possessions with Irving on the floor and no James last season, down from 117.5 with James and Irving both on the court.

If Irving's talents are on the offensive end, why can't his team score when he's the No.1 option? Will that change on a different team?

Thanks for posting....I think if you flip Isaiah and Kyrie, Isaiah struggles to win games with that Cavs lineup without Lebron too...The celts would be just as good, imo, with Kyrie because they are built, defensively to support a ball dominate scoring pg who isnt very good defensively. Also, they have a very smart, innovative coach. With the right pieces, Kyrie can be a part of a winning program.

BillTheButcher @ 7/27/2017 2:26 PM
As a knicks fan who grew up with the 90s teams I have hated a lot of players Jordan,Pippen,Miller,ect.But never have I hated a player more than this pile of garbage Melo dude is the biggest bum in the league, he forced a trade to the Knicks that raped the team out of all assets because he could not wait half a year.He only cares about his $ and brand which is why he has not won squat in this league and never will.Blocking a trade to Cle, which will still make the Finals next year with Lebron he makes every player play way above their level I can bet Rose has a hell of year this upcoming season.But nope Melo is too stupid to see the potential because he wants to go to HOU who will not win sh*t in the West.Phil f*cked up giving him a ntc, but he is still a b*tch. It finally looks like NY is done making stupid trades(fingers crossed) , I am perfectly fine with playing young guys next year and Melo can keep his ass home the whole year , Knicks need to stand firm no trade that does not benefit them and no buyout.
Knickoftime @ 7/27/2017 2:33 PM
MS wrote:Denver got a tremendous package.

Break it down.

Okay.

3 starters all having career years two of which were young
Felton - 17pts 9ass

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/splits/_/...

Had a career firs 19 games. Performance dropped off after. Career dropped off after.

Chandler - 16.4pts

A player "that was leaving at the end of the season."

Knicks couldn't afford Melo & Chandler.

Draft picks - Resulted in Murray and Gary Harris

No.

That's as lopsided a trade as we have seen in a long time. Felton was also traded for Andre Miller.

No.

And the Knicks turn Melo into what?

We don't know.

An it's 6 years later

reub @ 7/27/2017 2:37 PM
I say no to trading any of our youth or our future picks. If Melo, Lee, O'Quinn aren't good enough then I'll roll with Frank and Baker at PG. Let's not make another bad trade like the one that crippled us for Melo.
knicks1248 @ 7/27/2017 2:46 PM
Uptown wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

Yeah, I was watching this....afterwards, they clowned the idae of Kyrie comming to the Knicks. They implied that the Cavs front office is a mess, so why would he wan4 to come to Ny where the fron5 office is just as messy?

Kyrie Irving appears to have zero interest in talking to the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Cleveland's front office has attempted to contact Irving since reports surfaced that the 6-foot-3 guard requested a trade, but have yet to receive a response from him, multiple sources told The Athletic's Jason Lloyd.

Irving reportedly feels underutilized in the Cavaliers' offense and prefers to step away from under LeBron James' shadow. The six-year veteran has listed the Spurs, Heat, Knicks, and Timberwolves among his preferred destinations.

The Cavaliers reportedly believe there's little chance of salvaging their relationship with Irving and presume a trade is "almost inevitable."

Despite the chatter of a possible trade, Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert said Wednesday he expects to see Irving in training camp, noting he's still under contract for the next two seasons.

The 25-year-old is coming off another terrific offensive season, averaging 25.2 points, 5.8 assists, 3.2 rebounds, 1.2 steals, while shooting 47.3 percent from the floor and 40.1 percent from deep.

Knickoftime @ 7/27/2017 2:51 PM
reub wrote:I say no to trading any of our youth or our future picks. If Melo, Lee, O'Quinn aren't good enough then I'll roll with Frank and Baker at PG. Let's not make another bad trade like the one that crippled us for Melo.

We'll always be denied Stat, Gallo & Felton holing up that championship trophy.

fishmike @ 7/27/2017 3:02 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
reub wrote:I say no to trading any of our youth or our future picks. If Melo, Lee, O'Quinn aren't good enough then I'll roll with Frank and Baker at PG. Let's not make another bad trade like the one that crippled us for Melo.

We'll always be denied Stat, Gallo & Felton holing up that championship trophy.

was that the last thing TFK wrote before being banned?
CrushAlot @ 7/27/2017 3:09 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
reub wrote:I say no to trading any of our youth or our future picks. If Melo, Lee, O'Quinn aren't good enough then I'll roll with Frank and Baker at PG. Let's not make another bad trade like the one that crippled us for Melo.

We'll always be denied Stat, Gallo & Felton holing up that championship trophy.

was that the last thing TFK wrote before being banned?

Was he banner or did he just move on? He used to post on Clutchfans, realgm and another Knick forum. He isn't on any of those now that I am aware of.
fishmike @ 7/27/2017 3:23 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
reub wrote:I say no to trading any of our youth or our future picks. If Melo, Lee, O'Quinn aren't good enough then I'll roll with Frank and Baker at PG. Let's not make another bad trade like the one that crippled us for Melo.

We'll always be denied Stat, Gallo & Felton holing up that championship trophy.

was that the last thing TFK wrote before being banned?

Was he banner or did he just move on? He used to post on Clutchfans, realgm and another Knick forum. He isn't on any of those now that I am aware of.
Oh I have no idea. He was funny. I have never seen someone so emotionally vested in a loving one player and hating another. DK was equally interesting.... I actually miss those guys. They sure added flavor
newyorknewyork @ 7/27/2017 3:30 PM
Uptown wrote:
martin wrote:Can't tell if this has been posted but some interesting stats and breakdowns:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20149...

Irving's stat line has superstar written all over it. In 2016-17 -- his age-24 season -- Irving scored a career-high 25.2 points per game, while sharing the ball with James and Kevin Love. To put his scoring ability in perspective, when James went to the bench last season, Irving's scoring average per 36 minutes soared from 23.2 points to a staggering 35.2 points. Irving can get buckets.

But he is not James Harden or Russell Westbrook. Irving hasn't shown the ability to consistently set up his teammates like this year's MVP and runner-up. In the past three seasons, Irving has spent exactly 2,000 minutes on the floor without James, which amounts to basically a full season of action. During that time, Irving has averaged 30.6 points, 6.3 assists and 3.3 turnovers per 36 minutes. For perspective, Isaiah Thomas last season put up a nearly identical line: 30.8 points, 6.3 assists and 2.9 turnovers per 36 minutes.

As a player, Thomas and Damian Lillard are probably the best comps for Irving, who has struggled to win as the guy. In the 17 games that James has sat the past three seasons with Irving starting, the Cavs' record is a woeful 4-13 (.235). Keep in mind, Love shared the floor with Irving in all but two of those games, so it wasn't like Irving was going at it alone out there. To put that win-loss record in perspective, it is actually lower than the Cavs' win percentage in three seasons with Irving running the show pre-James (.339). Yikes.

That doesn't bode well for Irving. And it looks worse if you turn the tables. When James played without Irving the past three seasons, the Cavs went 25-11 (.694). With Irving off the court and James on the court, the LeBron-led Cavs outscored opponents by 585 points in 3,074 minutes, or plus-9.1 per 48 minutes -- a point margin that would have been good for second in the NBA behind the Golden State Warriors last season.

Let's flip that. With Irving on the court and James off the court, the Irving-led Cavs have been outscored by 94 points in 2,000 minutes, or minus-1.7 per 48 minutes -- a point margin roughly on pace with a New Orleans Pelicans team that finished 14 games under .500 last season. Not good.

What's clear is that when it came to winning basketball games, Irving needed James more than James needed Irving. That dynamic speaks to Irving's one-dimensional game, where he's superb in one-on-one situations but struggles in other areas. As ESPN's Kevin Pelton pointed out, Irving ranks 12th among point guards in real plus-minus, thanks to a defensive RPM that places him 440th among all players on that end of the floor. With defense bogging him down, Irving didn't register in the top 50 overall in RPM last season, nor did he in 2015-16 or 2013-14 (but he finished 38th in 2014-15, before his knee injury).

All-Star ballots, Team USA officials and Nike execs are unanimous: Kyrie Irving is a superstar. But the on-court numbers don't agree. As the No. 1 option on the team, Irving's record in the NBA is 132-247 (.348), or the equivalent of a 29-win team.

To be fair, Irving's sorry record without James the past few seasons has been on a shooter-heavy roster that has largely been geared toward James' talents. Though being surrounded by sharpshooters like Love, JR Smith and Kyle Korver would seemingly help space the floor for Irving's dribble-heavy game, it hasn't delivered winning results, unless James is out there. The Cavs scored a paltry 103.1 points per 100 possessions with Irving on the floor and no James last season, down from 117.5 with James and Irving both on the court.

If Irving's talents are on the offensive end, why can't his team score when he's the No.1 option? Will that change on a different team?

Thanks for posting....I think if you flip Isaiah and Kyrie, Isaiah struggles to win games with that Cavs lineup without Lebron too...The celts would be just as good, imo, with Kyrie because they are built, defensively to support a ball dominate scoring pg who isnt very good defensively. Also, they have a very smart, innovative coach. With the right pieces, Kyrie can be a part of a winning program.

Any player can be successful in the right situation. But that isnt saying to much really. We want a player to come in if we are giving up a bunch of pieces and elevate our situation. Cavs will be especting a max return. Offer they cant refuse type offer. Because they have all the control. Meanwhile Irving hasnt proven he can lead a team to success as the best player on it. Its is possible that he could do so. But if a team is going to pay as if he has a proven tract record of doing so. Then he should have a proven track record of doing so. KG held a proven track record of doing so and yet didnt even have the championship accomplishment and playoff big moment accomlpishments as Irving. KG was worth the moon due to certified impact and they still got him for a bargain. Lakers held the best record in the West and Kobe was leading candidate for MVP when they traded for Gasol at a bargain deal and Gasol lead the Grizz to 50 win season the year prior as its best player. Knicks won't get a bargain deal. And Knicks aren't one piece away.

GoNyGoNyGo @ 7/27/2017 3:59 PM
arkrud @ 7/27/2017 9:10 PM
Uptown wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

Yeah, I was watching this....afterwards, they clowned the idae of Kyrie comming to the Knicks. They implied that the Cavs front office is a mess, so why would he wan4 to come to Ny where the fron5 office is just as messy?

I think your NumLock is on...

CrushAlot @ 7/27/2017 9:40 PM
Jmpasq @ 7/27/2017 10:05 PM
CrushAlot wrote:

ehh Frank and a pick, it better be heavily protected

GoNyGoNyGo @ 7/27/2017 10:08 PM
I still say no to Frank. Melo, a pick and LT is enough.

Frank is the future if Kyrie leaves or is traded.

Welpee @ 7/27/2017 10:12 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
MS wrote:Denver got a tremendous package.

Break it down.

Okay.

3 starters all having career years two of which were young
Felton - 17pts 9ass

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/splits/_/...

Had a career firs 19 games. Performance dropped off after. Career dropped off after.

An it's 6 years later

Regarding Felton let me also add, D'Antoni's system made a lot of mediocre point guards look like boarderline all-stars.
Welpee @ 7/27/2017 10:16 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

ehh Frank and a pick, it better be heavily protected

I would have more faith in the Knicks new management if it weren't for that Ron Baker contract. That move was same ole Knicks.
Welpee @ 7/27/2017 10:16 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I still say no to Frank. Melo, a pick and LT is enough.

Frank is the future if Kyrie leaves or is traded.

I would love for that to happen, just don't see how it can.
Markji @ 7/27/2017 10:19 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

ehh Frank and a pick, it better be heavily protected


If this twitter is correct then we are not including Melo in the trade. Just Frank N; Lance Thomas; and one 1st
Knickoftime @ 7/27/2017 10:22 PM
Markji wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

ehh Frank and a pick, it better be heavily protected


If this twitter is correct then we are not including Melo in the trade. Just Frank N; Lance Thomas; and one 1st

It assumes Melo. Can't be done under the cap (not even close) as written.

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