Knicks · OT: If You Had to Build a Team to Beat the Warriors, Who Would You Need? (page 1)

NardDogNation @ 7/23/2017 4:17 PM
Alright, here are the rules:

1.) You have a $100 million HARD cap to negotiate with and are constrained by the same rules of the CBA.
2.) You have the powers of a startup franchise and can simply claim players from other teams EXCEPT LeBron.
3.) You may only have one player on a rookie contract that was either a top 10 pick, has made an all-NBA team or all-NBA rookie team.
4.) Your team would have to have a realistic chance of beating the Warriors in a 7 game series.

Go...

RonRon @ 7/23/2017 4:31 PM
PLUG in just about many PG/SG but that would be my core 3 in many scenarios
THOSE 3 players can just about elevate ANY DEFENSES OUT THERE

Giannes

Anthony Davis
KAT


WALL BY FAR IS THE BEST DEFENDER out there and has shown MUCH IMPROVEMENT IN HIS 3pt shot but preferably with 2 versatile PG/SG's that can play both off and on the ball, hit 3pters, penetrate/facilitate/create their own shot and for team with HIGH % shots, and still DEFEND at a HIGH LEVEL, with possibly one being an under average defender or average that can be made up for with that TOP CORE

Lilliard or Wall or Harden or CP3, or IRVING
Avery Bradley *since he is underpaid on his final year of his contract*


Could even be sneaky and add in a Sean Kilpatrick or Patrick Beverely, and throw in another an ELITE PG/SG or LBJ for cap space reasons or to have more cap space for bench players
Say LBJ, Kawaii, with Giannes running the point or LBJ running the PG

Some other sneaky players would be contracts like Crowder/Aminu,maybe Nurkic/Jovic *since according to the rules set, they were not drafted HIGH are still in rookie contracts*

GustavBahler @ 7/23/2017 4:47 PM
Lots of teams trying to beat GS at their own game. I would try changing the game. Players are coming into this league taller, and more athletic. KP is a great example. Cant do it at all once, but Id like to see the Knicks gradually acquiring players (like KP) who are tall and athletic enough to punish teams playing small ball, matchup problems on both ends of the court.

KP isnt there yet, but that would be the ideal.

MS @ 7/23/2017 4:48 PM
C- Nikola Jokic, Nuggets: $4.4 million or KP
PF- Kawhi Leonard - $19.25MM
SF - Giannis Antetokounmpo - $20MM
SG - Avery Bradley - $8.5MM
PG - Isiah Thomas - $6.3MM

Bench
Jae Crowder -$6.8MM
Dirk $5MM
Willy Hermongomez - $2MM
Kemba Walker - $13MM
JJ Barea - $3.4MM
Wilson Chandler - $12MM

That probably gets it done.

meloshouldgo @ 7/23/2017 5:13 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Lots of teams trying to beat GS at their own game. I would try changing the game. Players are coming into this league taller, and more athletic. KP is a great example. Cant do it at all once, but Id like to see the Knicks gradually acquiring players (like KP) who are tall and athletic enough to punish teams playing small ball, matchup problems on both ends of the court.

KP isnt there yet, but that would be the ideal.

Jokic, KP, Giannis, ???, Ben Simmons(?)
Long and athletic future ALL NBA TEAM.

I would take Fox in the 2G spot, but there are better choices.

yellowboy90 @ 7/23/2017 5:59 PM
MS wrote:C- Nikola Jokic, Nuggets: $4.4 million or KP
PF- Kawhi Leonard - $19.25MM
SF - Giannis Antetokounmpo - $20MM
SG - Avery Bradley - $8.5MM
PG - Isiah Thomas - $6.3MM

Bench
Jae Crowder -$6.8MM
Dirk $5MM
Willy Hermongomez - $2MM
Kemba Walker - $13MM
JJ Barea - $3.4MM
Wilson Chandler - $12MM

That probably gets it done.

That's a nice roster. I think the bench defense is a little suspect but they would probably be paired up with some of the starters so its cool. Overall I think you did a good job. Also, Jokic only makes a little over $1.2m so you have room to spare.

yellowboy90 @ 7/23/2017 6:46 PM
Starters

PG - John Wall/$18,063,850

SG - Gary Harris/$2,550,055

SF - Kawahi Leonard/$18,868,625

PF - Giannis Antetokounmpo/$22,471,910

C - Clint Capela/$2,334,528

Bench

Pg - Malcolm Brogdon/$1,312,611

Sg - Tyler Johnson/$5,881,260

Sf - Jimmy Butler/$17,546,918

pf - Jae Crowder/$6,796,117

C - Richaun Holmes/$1,471,382

$2.7m left

NardDogNation @ 7/23/2017 7:41 PM
STARTERS
PG: Patrick Beverly...$6 million
SG: Jimmy Butler...$19 million
SF: Paul George...$19 million
PF: Anthony Davis...$24 million
C: Taj Gibson...$14 million

ROTATION
G: Frank Ntilikina...$3 million
G: Gary Harris...$2 million
F: Vince Carter...
F: Nikola Mirotic...$6 million
C: Kyle O'Quinn...$4 million

NardDogNation @ 7/23/2017 8:15 PM
RonRon wrote:PLUG in just about many PG/SG but that would be my core 3 in many scenarios
THOSE 3 players can just about elevate ANY DEFENSES OUT THERE

Giannes

Anthony Davis
KAT


WALL BY FAR IS THE BEST DEFENDER out there and has shown MUCH IMPROVEMENT IN HIS 3pt shot but preferably with 2 versatile PG/SG's that can play both off and on the ball, hit 3pters, penetrate/facilitate/create their own shot and for team with HIGH % shots, and still DEFEND at a HIGH LEVEL, with possibly one being an under average defender or average that can be made up for with that TOP CORE

Lilliard or Wall or Harden or CP3, or IRVING
Avery Bradley *since he is underpaid on his final year of his contract*


Could even be sneaky and add in a Sean Kilpatrick or Patrick Beverely, and throw in another an ELITE PG/SG or LBJ for cap space reasons or to have more cap space for bench players
Say LBJ, Kawaii, with Giannes running the point or LBJ running the PG

Some other sneaky players would be contracts like Crowder/Aminu,maybe Nurkic/Jovic *since according to the rules set, they were not drafted HIGH are still in rookie contracts*

That being said, what would your roster look like. Hoopshype allows you to see an approximation of player salaries and the clauses contained in them.

NardDogNation @ 7/23/2017 8:24 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Lots of teams trying to beat GS at their own game. I would try changing the game. Players are coming into this league taller, and more athletic. KP is a great example. Cant do it at all once, but Id like to see the Knicks gradually acquiring players (like KP) who are tall and athletic enough to punish teams playing small ball, matchup problems on both ends of the court.

KP isnt there yet, but that would be the ideal.

Being taller and more athletic is the Warriors game though. They play small ball but are hell-a lengthy and versatile on both ends. I'm not sure how that can be improved upon or modified but do think it would be a losing effort trying to best them at doing what they do. They are the greatest puzzle in basketball history in my opinion.

NardDogNation @ 7/23/2017 8:38 PM
MS wrote:C- Nikola Jokic, Nuggets: $4.4 million or KP
PF- Kawhi Leonard - $19.25MM
SF - Giannis Antetokounmpo - $20MM
SG - Avery Bradley - $8.5MM
PG - Isiah Thomas - $6.3MM

Bench
Jae Crowder -$6.8MM
Dirk $5MM
Willy Hermongomez - $2MM
Kemba Walker - $13MM
JJ Barea - $3.4MM
Wilson Chandler - $12MM

That probably gets it done.

It's definitely intriguing and an extremely efficient use of the cap. I'm just not a big fan of small guards, especially those that can't defend their own position, let alone another on switches e.g. Isiah Thomas. Against a team like the Warriors and a player like Steph Curry, that is an automatic death sentence once they figure you out. And having Jokic manning the middle only magnifies the issue, IMO.

NardDogNation @ 7/23/2017 8:40 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Lots of teams trying to beat GS at their own game. I would try changing the game. Players are coming into this league taller, and more athletic. KP is a great example. Cant do it at all once, but Id like to see the Knicks gradually acquiring players (like KP) who are tall and athletic enough to punish teams playing small ball, matchup problems on both ends of the court.

KP isnt there yet, but that would be the ideal.

Jokic, KP, Giannis, ???, Ben Simmons(?)
Long and athletic future ALL NBA TEAM.

I would take Fox in the 2G spot, but there are better choices.

Why would you play Fox off the ball? Seems like an obvious choice to be the quarterback of an offense.

NardDogNation @ 7/23/2017 8:45 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:Starters

PG - John Wall/$18,063,850

SG - Gary Harris/$2,550,055

SF - Kawahi Leonard/$18,868,625

PF - Giannis Antetokounmpo/$22,471,910

C - Clint Capela/$2,334,528

Bench

Pg - Malcolm Brogdon/$1,312,611

Sg - Tyler Johnson/$5,881,260

Sf - Jimmy Butler/$17,546,918

pf - Jae Crowder/$6,796,117

C - Richaun Holmes/$1,471,382

$2.7m left

I like. I like a lot actually. Like I mentioned to a poster, the only way to compete with the Warriors is to be able to switch everything on defense, which I think your roster would be able to do exceedingly well. I also think that your bench is exceptionally strong though I wonder if a guy like Butler would be willing to be a 6th man. And do you think Giannas would still be Giannas with Wall manning the PG?

newyorker4ever @ 7/23/2017 8:53 PM
I see a lot of the teams with good/great defenders but not the 3 point shooting needed to beat GSW. You need what they have which is shooting and defense.
GustavBahler @ 7/23/2017 9:23 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Lots of teams trying to beat GS at their own game. I would try changing the game. Players are coming into this league taller, and more athletic. KP is a great example. Cant do it at all once, but Id like to see the Knicks gradually acquiring players (like KP) who are tall and athletic enough to punish teams playing small ball, matchup problems on both ends of the court.

KP isnt there yet, but that would be the ideal.

Being taller and more athletic is the Warriors game though. They play small ball but are hell-a lengthy and versatile on both ends. I'm not sure how that can be improved upon or modified but do think it would be a losing effort trying to best them at doing what they do. They are the greatest puzzle in basketball history in my opinion.

Draymond plays center, how tall is he? Same for Curry, Thompson. Durant is the only one who really fits that description. Ben Simmons is 7ft, and he's going to be a PG. Thats where the league is heading. Dont have to go to that extreme, but I wouldnt mind them being ahead of the curve when an opportunity presents itself.

TripleThreat @ 7/23/2017 9:57 PM
newyorker4ever wrote:I see a lot of the teams with good/great defenders but not the 3 point shooting needed to beat GSW. You need what they have which is shooting and defense.

That's not how you beat the Warriors.

Curry runs that offense. Without him, it's an entirely different team. They are still elite when he's not on the floor, but just extremely efficient instead of psychotically efficient.

The only way to stop Curry

A) He's injured and simply can't play
B) You manhandle him and the refs let it happen

The blueprint for how the Cavs, courtesy of Nike, jobbed the Warriors for three games straight, after being down 3-1, wasn't that complex. Just have someone basically batter Curry over and over again so he can't shoot.

To beat the Warriors, in a 7 game series, you need pretty much all these things to happen

1) Draymond Green is hurt. He's the most irreplaceable part on their defense.
2) Every Warrior has a historically bad shooting streak at the same time
3) The refs ( aka Disciples Of Nike/ESPN/Ghost Of David Stern) decide to let any defender basically maul Curry all series long and turn the other way
4) Your team needs to shoot at a historic rate for 7 games straight

In a clean called series, with the Warriors fully healthy, they can only beat themselves. It's been a long time since a team has had this much total firepower period.

Guys under the Nike banner
- Paul George
- Rudy Gobert
- Jae Crowder
- DeMarcus Cousins

Russell Westbrook is not, but he's the MVP and the Westy versus Durant narrative is too much juicy marketing for the league to ignore.

Nike paid LBJ a FIVE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLAR PLUS ENDORSEMENT CONTRACT

Do you think they want a return on that investment? They scream at the networks, who pay billions to the NBA who broadcast games and air their commercials. The networks scream at some Rod Thorn-type in the league. He screams at the refs. The refs just want to keep their jobs. So the Warriors get jobbed. And Curry gets basically beaten down game after game because God forbid LBJ doesn't get his ring in Cleveland.

LBJ does not work for the NBA. He works for Nike, and happens to just have a contract with the NBA. If Nike says, do this, he's doing it. Do you think he cares what the NBA has to say about it? He's making more from Nike (plus all the other opportunities being with them creates for him) than he ever will from the NBA.

Rudy Gobert
Paul George
Russell Westbrook
Jae Crowder
DMC

And like 7 homeless dudes. As long as Nike and the league gets it's "narrative" ( i.e. the storyline they think is the most compelling to drive their marketing), they'll job anyone. Once the Heat beat the Kings in the Finals, that was it, it was clear then that the NBA won't even try anymore to make things look on the level. This is basically pro wrestling at heart here.

The Warriors did everything the right way. But no one can dunk over a car. No one is banging Rihanna and beating her while dropping an album every year. No one there is hanging out with Jay Z and Will Smith at the Oscars.

I remember being courtside at a game years and years ago. And Iverson charged into a defender. Wasn't even a doubt in anyone's mind. Iverson got his two gimme free throws. The first thing the defender screamed out was - "Do I have to have my own pair of shoes too?!?"

When Stephen Curry turned down a huge Nike deal, they just went bulls eye on him. Their biggest hurdle is you can't really job a player who can his threeballs at a historic rate.

Look at the shoes a player is wearing. That will tell you if he can help at team against the Warriors in the Finals. There are times the NBA is no better than American Idol. Why don't they just get fat to slim Randy to show up and "Dawg" everyone on the sidelines in cheap interviews while wearing the biggest Swoosh hat ever made.

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