Knicks · Pelton's Eastern Conference Offseason Grades (page 2)

The Knicks suck. ESPN is always right and everyone on here bitches and moans about bias.

Rob Baker deserves 4.5MM? In what world. Hardaway JR is overpaid by $20MM. We should have taken Dennis Smith.

What are they writing that's wrong. They said we would suck last year and miss the playoffs, they were right.

ekstarks94 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:you can't find any human being associated with the NBA (fans/Gms/president/owners/refs/coaches/ball boys) that thought THJ and baker were good signing for that price.

Some of you need to stop being Homers, and be more realistic.

NO fan on this board would have signed off on that THJ if you had the final word
90% of you would have drafted smith jr, and none of you would have given baker that kind of contract. So why is that Hate?

Yeah like Porter @ $100 mill is better

Why does everyone keep ignoring a story that broke on Smith last week. The kid with the torn achilles wouldn't give the Knicks his medical records before the draft?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...

joec32033 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:you can't find any human being associated with the NBA (fans/Gms/president/owners/refs/coaches/ball boys) that thought THJ and baker were good signing for that price.

Some of you need to stop being Homers, and be more realistic.

NO fan on this board would have signed off on that THJ if you had the final word
90% of you would have drafted smith jr, and none of you would have given baker that kind of contract. So why is that Hate?

Yeah like Porter @ $100 mill is better

Why does everyone keep ignoring a story that broke on Smith last week. The kid with the torn achilles wouldn't give the Knicks his medical records before the draft?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...

Because the story isn't he didn't give them to everyone, including Dallas, the story is he didn't give them to the Knicks.

That's a whole other context.

I agree that we overpaid th jr and that Baker should be making about $1.5 mil less than what he is being paid, but really it is up in the air right now. If th jr. turns into a 20 pt scorer and Frank proves to be a bigger and better version of George Hill, then our offseason was pretty good. Not sure how Pelton can justify an F when he has never seen Frank play and we don't know how Timmy is going to work out. I would have given us a C-.

Knickoftime wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:you can't find any human being associated with the NBA (fans/Gms/president/owners/refs/coaches/ball boys) that thought THJ and baker were good signing for that price.

Some of you need to stop being Homers, and be more realistic.

NO fan on this board would have signed off on that THJ if you had the final word
90% of you would have drafted smith jr, and none of you would have given baker that kind of contract. So why is that Hate?

Yeah like Porter @ $100 mill is better

Why does everyone keep ignoring a story that broke on Smith last week. The kid with the torn achilles wouldn't give the Knicks his medical records before the draft?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...

Because the story isn't he didn't give them to everyone, including Dallas, the story is he didn't give them to the Knicks.

That's a whole other context.

I think you are saying the same thing.

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:total bullshit, and the its regurgitated bullshit, the worst kind.

This has literally become cliches of bad reporting: "Ntilikina was a triangle pick"

5 B's
3 C's
3 D's
3 F's

Who cares. Its ESPN. They mocked the Knicks at the ESPYs.

ESPN treats the Knicks like FoxNews treats Obama.

Genuine question.

When have they been wrong?

It seems like every year the press is down in the Knicks in the offeason, fans are more optimistic, and the fans complain the press are just Knicks haters.

Then the Knicks go out and have a year eerily like the one the haters predicted they would.

I mean, am i wrong here? When have the Knicks exceeded the pre-season hate by the press?

thats the point. There is no expectation. No win total. No mention of whether or not THjr is a good fit, or anything besides they overpaid. The only way you can sign and RFA is to overpay.

So yea... when I say "you suck" with no real quantifiable justification then yea... its hating.

If the all the press has done is non-quantified, non-justified hating the last 15 years and fans have done more quantified, more justified analysis and has been routinely more positive in that same time, the question is simple ...

Who's been more right at the end of the day?

I don't care who is it or how it was done or when it was done. If you've been "hating" on the Knicks over the last couple of decades, you've mostly been correct.

That matters.

There is no way to really rate our off season until years down the road. As rating the off season doesnt just mean how we will perform this coming season. If 5 yrs down the road Frank is on an all-star team then that pick was a huge success. And nobody can claim they know how any pick will turn out 5 years from now.

Hardaway Jr signing isnt an F grade signing. Noah is an F grade signing. Given his injury history and age and declining performance compared to his contract. Hardaway Jr is more like a C with the potential for B.

Baker signing can be rated as an F. But that's still only a 2 year 9mil commitment at the end of the day and shouldnt destroy the overall grade.

What if Dotson becomes a contributor 3 yrs from now. Nabbing him in the 2nd round would hold more weight then signing Baker for a 2 yr 9mil deal in the grand scheme of things.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:total bullshit, and the its regurgitated bullshit, the worst kind.

This has literally become cliches of bad reporting: "Ntilikina was a triangle pick"

5 B's
3 C's
3 D's
3 F's

Who cares. Its ESPN. They mocked the Knicks at the ESPYs.

ESPN treats the Knicks like FoxNews treats Obama.

Genuine question.

When have they been wrong?

It seems like every year the press is down in the Knicks in the offeason, fans are more optimistic, and the fans complain the press are just Knicks haters.

Then the Knicks go out and have a year eerily like the one the haters predicted they would.

I mean, am i wrong here? When have the Knicks exceeded the pre-season hate by the press?

thats the point. There is no expectation. No win total. No mention of whether or not THjr is a good fit, or anything besides they overpaid. The only way you can sign and RFA is to overpay.

So yea... when I say "you suck" with no real quantifiable justification then yea... its hating.

If the all the press has done is non-quantified, non-justified hating the last 15 years and fans have done more quantified, more justified analysis and has been routinely more positive in that same time, the question is simple ...

Who's been more right at the end of the day?

I don't care who is it or how it was done or when it was done. If you've been "hating" on the Knicks over the last couple of decades, you've mostly been correct.

That matters.

There is no way to really rate our off season until years down the road. As rating the off season doesnt just mean how we will perform this coming season. If 5 yrs down the road Frank is on an all-star team then that pick was a huge success. And nobody can claim they know how any pick will turn out 5 years from now.

Hardaway Jr signing isnt an F grade signing. Noah is an F grade signing. Given his injury history and age and declining performance compared to his contract. Hardaway Jr is more like a C with the potential for B.

Baker signing can be rated as an F. But that's still only a 2 year 9mil commitment at the end of the day and shouldnt destroy the overall grade.

What if Dotson becomes a contributor 3 yrs from now. Nabbing him in the 2nd round would hold more weight then signing Baker for a 2 yr 9mil deal in the grand scheme of things.

That's fair and legitimate. But the same standard was applied to all 30 teams. It's a stronger argument that the whole Pelton piece was just premature and shortsighted, than it was purposely targeting the Knicks.

Knickoftime wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:total bullshit, and the its regurgitated bullshit, the worst kind.

This has literally become cliches of bad reporting: "Ntilikina was a triangle pick"

5 B's
3 C's
3 D's
3 F's

Who cares. Its ESPN. They mocked the Knicks at the ESPYs.

ESPN treats the Knicks like FoxNews treats Obama.

Genuine question.

When have they been wrong?

It seems like every year the press is down in the Knicks in the offeason, fans are more optimistic, and the fans complain the press are just Knicks haters.

Then the Knicks go out and have a year eerily like the one the haters predicted they would.

I mean, am i wrong here? When have the Knicks exceeded the pre-season hate by the press?

thats the point. There is no expectation. No win total. No mention of whether or not THjr is a good fit, or anything besides they overpaid. The only way you can sign and RFA is to overpay.

So yea... when I say "you suck" with no real quantifiable justification then yea... its hating.

If the all the press has done is non-quantified, non-justified hating the last 15 years and fans have done more quantified, more justified analysis and has been routinely more positive in that same time, the question is simple ...

Who's been more right at the end of the day?

I don't care who is it or how it was done or when it was done. If you've been "hating" on the Knicks over the last couple of decades, you've mostly been correct.

That matters.

There is no way to really rate our off season until years down the road. As rating the off season doesnt just mean how we will perform this coming season. If 5 yrs down the road Frank is on an all-star team then that pick was a huge success. And nobody can claim they know how any pick will turn out 5 years from now.

Hardaway Jr signing isnt an F grade signing. Noah is an F grade signing. Given his injury history and age and declining performance compared to his contract. Hardaway Jr is more like a C with the potential for B.

Baker signing can be rated as an F. But that's still only a 2 year 9mil commitment at the end of the day and shouldnt destroy the overall grade.

What if Dotson becomes a contributor 3 yrs from now. Nabbing him in the 2nd round would hold more weight then signing Baker for a 2 yr 9mil deal in the grand scheme of things.

That's fair and legitimate. But the same standard was applied to all 30 teams. It's a stronger argument that the whole Pelton piece was just premature and shortsighted, than it was purposely targeting the Knicks.

I would agree with this except the only other two teams to get Fs lost franchise talents this offseason. The Knicks added talent and improved the front office even with Mills still in place.

Knickoftime wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:total bullshit, and the its regurgitated bullshit, the worst kind.

This has literally become cliches of bad reporting: "Ntilikina was a triangle pick"

5 B's
3 C's
3 D's
3 F's

Who cares. Its ESPN. They mocked the Knicks at the ESPYs.

ESPN treats the Knicks like FoxNews treats Obama.

Genuine question.

When have they been wrong?

It seems like every year the press is down in the Knicks in the offeason, fans are more optimistic, and the fans complain the press are just Knicks haters.

Then the Knicks go out and have a year eerily like the one the haters predicted they would.

I mean, am i wrong here? When have the Knicks exceeded the pre-season hate by the press?

thats the point. There is no expectation. No win total. No mention of whether or not THjr is a good fit, or anything besides they overpaid. The only way you can sign and RFA is to overpay.

So yea... when I say "you suck" with no real quantifiable justification then yea... its hating.

If the all the press has done is non-quantified, non-justified hating the last 15 years and fans have done more quantified, more justified analysis and has been routinely more positive in that same time, the question is simple ...

Who's been more right at the end of the day?

I don't care who is it or how it was done or when it was done. If you've been "hating" on the Knicks over the last couple of decades, you've mostly been correct.

That matters.

There is no way to really rate our off season until years down the road. As rating the off season doesnt just mean how we will perform this coming season. If 5 yrs down the road Frank is on an all-star team then that pick was a huge success. And nobody can claim they know how any pick will turn out 5 years from now.

Hardaway Jr signing isnt an F grade signing. Noah is an F grade signing. Given his injury history and age and declining performance compared to his contract. Hardaway Jr is more like a C with the potential for B.

Baker signing can be rated as an F. But that's still only a 2 year 9mil commitment at the end of the day and shouldnt destroy the overall grade.

What if Dotson becomes a contributor 3 yrs from now. Nabbing him in the 2nd round would hold more weight then signing Baker for a 2 yr 9mil deal in the grand scheme of things.

That's fair and legitimate. But the same standard was applied to all 30 teams. It's a stronger argument that the whole Pelton piece was just premature and shortsighted, than it was purposely targeting the Knicks.

Pelton may have put more weight on certain things or graded on a certain type of scale. Like Minny being able to get Butler for a bargain may be his grading scale for As. That Knicks or any team couldn't get an A unless they got something of high substance at a bargain price. Seems like he put to much weight on passing on Smith jr rather then evaluating if Frank would be a good prospect or not. Despite popular opinion it is possible that they BOTH become quality players in the NBA. One's career doesn't make or break the others. Hardaway Jr being overpaid doesn't mean that he will be dead weight.

Back to Frank. I think he is a prospect that the Knicks need given their history over the past years. Defense, team first, work ethic. Knicks need to lay low, plug in these type of guys, be all about basketball. Thats the way to build up the credibility.

With Phil out and Melo possibly on his way out KP will be viewed as that star with the target on his back as the media looks to get their drama from him. Hope he is prepared.

CrushAlot wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:total bullshit, and the its regurgitated bullshit, the worst kind.

This has literally become cliches of bad reporting: "Ntilikina was a triangle pick"

5 B's
3 C's
3 D's
3 F's

Who cares. Its ESPN. They mocked the Knicks at the ESPYs.

ESPN treats the Knicks like FoxNews treats Obama.

Genuine question.

When have they been wrong?

It seems like every year the press is down in the Knicks in the offeason, fans are more optimistic, and the fans complain the press are just Knicks haters.

Then the Knicks go out and have a year eerily like the one the haters predicted they would.

I mean, am i wrong here? When have the Knicks exceeded the pre-season hate by the press?

thats the point. There is no expectation. No win total. No mention of whether or not THjr is a good fit, or anything besides they overpaid. The only way you can sign and RFA is to overpay.

So yea... when I say "you suck" with no real quantifiable justification then yea... its hating.

If the all the press has done is non-quantified, non-justified hating the last 15 years and fans have done more quantified, more justified analysis and has been routinely more positive in that same time, the question is simple ...

Who's been more right at the end of the day?

I don't care who is it or how it was done or when it was done. If you've been "hating" on the Knicks over the last couple of decades, you've mostly been correct.

That matters.

There is no way to really rate our off season until years down the road. As rating the off season doesnt just mean how we will perform this coming season. If 5 yrs down the road Frank is on an all-star team then that pick was a huge success. And nobody can claim they know how any pick will turn out 5 years from now.

Hardaway Jr signing isnt an F grade signing. Noah is an F grade signing. Given his injury history and age and declining performance compared to his contract. Hardaway Jr is more like a C with the potential for B.

Baker signing can be rated as an F. But that's still only a 2 year 9mil commitment at the end of the day and shouldnt destroy the overall grade.

What if Dotson becomes a contributor 3 yrs from now. Nabbing him in the 2nd round would hold more weight then signing Baker for a 2 yr 9mil deal in the grand scheme of things.

That's fair and legitimate. But the same standard was applied to all 30 teams. It's a stronger argument that the whole Pelton piece was just premature and shortsighted, than it was purposely targeting the Knicks.

I would agree with this except the only other two teams to get Fs lost franchise talents this offseason. The Knicks added talent and improved the front office even with Mills still in place.

I don't have any issue with disagreements with the piece, I take issue with the idea Knick "haters" is a thing and that Pelton is one of them.

You can't be a hater and be right at the same time.

ALL the Knicks "haters" over the years have been ultimately proven to have taken the correct position.

CrushAlot wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:you can't find any human being associated with the NBA (fans/Gms/president/owners/refs/coaches/ball boys) that thought THJ and baker were good signing for that price.

Some of you need to stop being Homers, and be more realistic.

NO fan on this board would have signed off on that THJ if you had the final word
90% of you would have drafted smith jr, and none of you would have given baker that kind of contract. So why is that Hate?

Yeah like Porter @ $100 mill is better

Why does everyone keep ignoring a story that broke on Smith last week. The kid with the torn achilles wouldn't give the Knicks his medical records before the draft?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...

Because the story isn't he didn't give them to everyone, including Dallas, the story is he didn't give them to the Knicks.

That's a whole other context.

I think you are saying the same thing.

Did I just get okie doked?

We added Frank, Dotson, Jaramaz and THJr plus Sessions. What's so bad about that?

fishmike wrote:total bullshit, and the its regurgitated bullshit, the worst kind.

This has literally become cliches of bad reporting: "Ntilikina was a triangle pick"

5 B's
3 C's
3 D's
3 F's

Who cares. Its ESPN. They mocked the Knicks at the ESPYs.

ESPN treats the Knicks like FoxNews treats Obama.

Exactemundo

Sessions will be sessions and that's fine. The jury may not deliver a judgement on Frankie for another 5 years so saying he's a failure is ridiculous. If Timmy shows continued improvement on both ends of the floor, whether he turns into an all star or not, then his signing will be an A.

This article is stupid.

knicks1248 wrote:you can't find any human being associated with the NBA (fans/Gms/president/owners/refs/coaches/ball boys) that thought THJ and baker were good signing for that price.

Some of you need to stop being Homers, and be more realistic.

NO fan on this board would have signed off on that THJ if you had the final word
90% of you would have drafted smith jr, and none of you would have given baker that kind of contract. So why is that Hate?

Thee nets purposely traded for 3 of the worst contacts in the NBA in Carroll, Crabbe and Mozgov.... yet they get a B? THJr is better than all 3 yet all 3 make about the same money....

Homers? Ha!

We need a treasure troll emoji

Allanfan20 wrote:Sessions will be sessions and that's fine. The jury may not deliver a judgement on Frankie for another 5 years so saying he's a failure is ridiculous. If Timmy shows continued improvement on both ends of the floor, whether he turns into an all star or not, then his signing will be an A.

This article is stupid.

I am still down on the Tim signing, but if he does show such improvement on both sides of the ball like you said, I will be pleasantly surprised. Till he does that signing in a C+ at best.

Allanfan20 wrote:Sessions will be sessions and that's fine. The jury may not deliver a judgement on Frankie for another 5 years so saying he's a failure is ridiculous. If Timmy shows continued improvement on both ends of the floor, whether he turns into an all star or not, then his signing will be an A.

This article is stupid.

You clearly didn't read it.

"This article" didn't approach anything close to saying FN is a failure.

This is why Knicks fans think the media are haters, because they can't correctly read what they write any better than they can remember what they write.

Oh silly me.

this is Kevin Pelton statistically projecting the Knicks to win 34.7 games last season. You can guess the responses.

Guess he's a hater.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

Allanfan20 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:this is Kevin Pelton statistically projecting the Knicks to win 34.7 games last season. You can guess the responses.

Guess he's a hater.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

Google Allanfan20 and hater. You'll find nothing because I don't use that term.

It wasn't directed at you. It was posted generally to the thread.

That said, Felton didn't say (or even imply) what you claimed he did.

Knickoftime wrote:this is Kevin Pelton statistically projecting the Knicks to win 34.7 games last season. You can guess the responses.

Guess he's a hater.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

Pelton has been more accurate with our team than any fan here. I think he's being a bit harsh but I and other people here don't have legit credibility to criticize him based on history.