Knicks · Starting line ups as is? (page 2)

BRIGGS wrote:

chrismcnealy wrote:Frank or Baker
Tim
Lance
Melo
KP

I think they need a strong defensive forward like Lance with Melo.

Second unit
Sessions
Baker or Frank
Lee
Beasley
Willy

I'd like to see Dotson get some PT too.

I do too. I like having 3 guys who can shoot the three in at the same time. Its possible Dotson is the 2nd or 3rd best 3 point shooter we have. I do think it is KEY that he show some kind of dribble penetration skills. You want guys who can shoot take it or move the ball.

We can also play 10 and use guys like Oquinn and Kuz is situational stuff. But most important I want to see some speed on defense out on the perimeter. 3 guards are going to do that for me.

We should try to move Oquinn, why keep him on the roster if one we aren't going to give him a consistent 15-20 minutes. There has to be some deal out there where we get a 2nd round pick. Haven't we basically traded them all away through 2020

Jmpasq wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

chrismcnealy wrote:Frank or Baker
Tim
Lance
Melo
KP

I think they need a strong defensive forward like Lance with Melo.

Second unit
Sessions
Baker or Frank
Lee
Beasley
Willy

I'd like to see Dotson get some PT too.

I do too. I like having 3 guys who can shoot the three in at the same time. Its possible Dotson is the 2nd or 3rd best 3 point shooter we have. I do think it is KEY that he show some kind of dribble penetration skills. You want guys who can shoot take it or move the ball.

We can also play 10 and use guys like Oquinn and Kuz is situational stuff. But most important I want to see some speed on defense out on the perimeter. 3 guards are going to do that for me.

We should try to move Oquinn, why keep him on the roster if one we aren't going to give him a consistent 15-20 minutes. There has to be some deal out there where we get a 2nd round pick. Haven't we basically traded them all away through 2020

I get the feeling O'Quinn will be the sweetener in a deal to shed cap space. Maybe something involving Lee and O'Quinn. Maybe part of a Melo trade this summer, or later in the season.

Both these players can produce, so having them still here, isn't such a bad things. Glad they arent scrubs!

I like some of these line ups, but the one thing that sinks in when you are looking at our roster, is we have a lot of marginal players, and very few stand out must be starter talents.

After Hardaway, Melo and KP, who stands out so clearly as they would start on most teams in the league?

Sessions or Baker or Frank? That is a disaster waiting to happen!

Lee, Thomas, Beasley. There is something to not get excited about.

Noah is a huge question mark, and I don't think you can rationally expect anything except maybe towel waiving from him.

Willy, Dotson clearly have some upside and are part of the Future. Kuz is kinda on the bubble in this department, given he is nearly 30.

And KOQ has been solid, but how does he get minutes with the glut we have upfront, in terms of Melo, KP & Willy?

As I think further, Melo makes a ton of sense off the bench:

Sessions
Hardaway
Thomas/Lee
Willy
KP

Melo, Baker, KOQ/Noah are your main guys in off the bench.

franco12 wrote:I like some of these line ups, but the one thing that sinks in when you are looking at our roster, is we have a lot of marginal players, and very few stand out must be starter talents.

After Hardaway, Melo and KP, who stands out so clearly as they would start on most teams in the league?

Sessions or Baker or Frank? That is a disaster waiting to happen!

Lee, Thomas, Beasley. There is something to not get excited about.

Noah is a huge question mark, and I don't think you can rationally expect anything except maybe towel waiving from him.

Willy, Dotson clearly have some upside and are part of the Future. Kuz is kinda on the bubble in this department, given he is nearly 30.

And KOQ has been solid, but how does he get minutes with the glut we have upfront, in terms of Melo, KP & Willy?

As I think further, Melo makes a ton of sense off the bench:

Sessions
Hardaway
Thomas/Lee
Willy
KP

Melo, Baker, KOQ/Noah are your main guys in off the bench.

I think you're waaaay undervaluing Frank.

The problem with having three point shooters galore and not enough playmaking/shot creators for others is the team will become too similar and one dimensional. It will be much like the rest of the league's average teams that have jumped on the high octane 3 ball attempts, without the elite playmaking guard.

We don't have an elite playmaking guard, someone that can break down a defense, run great screen and rolls or anything like that. When you have someone like that and you then surround him with KP, and three wings that can shoot 3 pointers, you are going to be fantastic on offense.

If we have KP, Melo, Timmy. That's plenty of wing talent there. All 3 can shoot the 3 and like to shoot the 3. You add Lee and Frank, and while you may get good 3 point shooting, you won't get the most important aspect in having a good offense. Ball movement, consistent running of the team's offense. This is why in my opinion, starting Ron Baker is a must. We should start Baker and Frank, in my opinion. Two high IQ guys that go all out on defense. Frank can shoot the 3, drive a little and pass. Ron has a high IQ, pass first and will run the offense. As a backcourt, both push the ball and have enough speed to compete.

We play smaller with Tim at the 3, Melo at the 4 and KP at the 5,

To me, it's a must we have more than just Ron or Frank at PG. Neither Ron or Frank are top notch point guards. They can not go out and get a team 8-10 assists. With CLee you get catch and shoot 3 pointers, but you won't get the PG skills that you would get with Frank or Baker at the 2.

If we are keeping Melo (which looks the case). Start him at 4. KP at 5. THj at 3. Frank/Baker in the backcourt. Perhaps even Ron has improved his 3 point shot. You have a strong bench with Willy, CLee, Beasley and Sessions. Better than last year's bench for sure.

i dont have high expectation this year, and i think it is better than all that previous years hype with superteams etc, no way to disappoint me, only rise :)

We are again in a scenario where we will win between 25-35 games depending on player transitions, injuries and unforeseen. Sessions or Baker may start, but sooner or later hand Frank the ball for 30 minutes a night and see what we drafted. (THOMAS, lee, OQuinn and Kuz are trade pieces along with Melo. We so need draft picks either second or first. Meanwhile, we have XHM, Dotson, Baker, Artis, + Frank. All young guys as part of a rebuild. We need to determine if these guys can play at this level. I left off Randle. Maybe he sticks, maybe he doesn't but If he does he's the 6th guy as part of our rebuild and I didn't include Wily or KP.

reub wrote:

franco12 wrote:I like some of these line ups, but the one thing that sinks in when you are looking at our roster, is we have a lot of marginal players, and very few stand out must be starter talents.

After Hardaway, Melo and KP, who stands out so clearly as they would start on most teams in the league?

Sessions or Baker or Frank? That is a disaster waiting to happen!

Lee, Thomas, Beasley. There is something to not get excited about.

Noah is a huge question mark, and I don't think you can rationally expect anything except maybe towel waiving from him.

Willy, Dotson clearly have some upside and are part of the Future. Kuz is kinda on the bubble in this department, given he is nearly 30.

And KOQ has been solid, but how does he get minutes with the glut we have upfront, in terms of Melo, KP & Willy?

As I think further, Melo makes a ton of sense off the bench:

Sessions
Hardaway
Thomas/Lee
Willy
KP

Melo, Baker, KOQ/Noah are your main guys in off the bench.

I think you're waaaay undervaluing Frank.

I hope so, and I don't mean to discount his potential.

However, the fact is he is 19 years young and has not played 1 minute here in the US. We didn't see any time in the summer league.

So, to think that is the group of PGs we're going with into the season, yes, that is likely a disaster waiting to happen.

Heck, I think you could make the argument that had we changed FO personnel before the draft, we'd have picked DSjr over Frank.

Certainly I would feel much better with him as our PG since I got to see him perform in summer league, and do so at a high level.

I agree with the notion that you are looking at a 28 win team, plus or minus 7.

I think the season will start like this if we still have melo, which looks highly likely now:

pg- sessions
sg- thj
sf- melo
pf- kp
c- willie

it may not be the ideal defensively but I cant see frank n being thrown out into the lions den ( and playing westbrook first is the lions den) right at the star. I do think he will start by Christmas though. willie is too good to be on the bench imo. the intangibles he can do for the startin unit is instrumental in winning games. he also has a good chemistry with kp that should continue to grow. melo is a liability at sf, no question. however, he is here and he is, for now, the most versatile scorer we have on our team. I don't know if he can play up tempo any more ( hell, I don't know if sessions can run like that anymore) but as long as we have him, he will be our sf if we want to develop kp/willie tandem.

Frank
THJ
Melo
KP
Willy

BRIGGS wrote:C-KP
F Carmelo
G Lee
G Hardaway
G Frank N

C Willy G
F Beasley
F L Thomas
G Dotson
G Baker

C Oquinn
F Kuz
G Sessions

Noah Randle

When I look at that roster I see a lot of talent and depth. What was holding us back? Could it have been the triangle? We could surprise a lot of people this season, especially if Frank comes through for us.

Frank is probably going to play 10mpg. There is no way they gave Baker that contract to sit for long stretches and I'm pretty sure Sessions got brought aboard to start

SupremeCommander wrote:Frank is probably going to play 10mpg. There is no way they gave Baker that contract to sit for long stretches and I'm pretty sure Sessions got brought aboard to start

i think Sess is back up if someone gets imjurie

franco12 wrote:

reub wrote:

franco12 wrote:I like some of these line ups, but the one thing that sinks in when you are looking at our roster, is we have a lot of marginal players, and very few stand out must be starter talents.

After Hardaway, Melo and KP, who stands out so clearly as they would start on most teams in the league?

Sessions or Baker or Frank? That is a disaster waiting to happen!

Lee, Thomas, Beasley. There is something to not get excited about.

Noah is a huge question mark, and I don't think you can rationally expect anything except maybe towel waiving from him.

Willy, Dotson clearly have some upside and are part of the Future. Kuz is kinda on the bubble in this department, given he is nearly 30.

And KOQ has been solid, but how does he get minutes with the glut we have upfront, in terms of Melo, KP & Willy?

As I think further, Melo makes a ton of sense off the bench:

Sessions
Hardaway
Thomas/Lee
Willy
KP

Melo, Baker, KOQ/Noah are your main guys in off the bench.

I think you're waaaay undervaluing Frank.

I hope so, and I don't mean to discount his potential.

However, the fact is he is 19 years young and has not played 1 minute here in the US. We didn't see any time in the summer league.

So, to think that is the group of PGs we're going with into the season, yes, that is likely a disaster waiting to happen.

Heck, I think you could make the argument that had we changed FO personnel before the draft, we'd have picked DSjr over Frank.

Certainly I would feel much better with him as our PG since I got to see him perform in summer league, and do so at a high level.

I agree with the notion that you are looking at a 28 win team, plus or minus 7.

so let me get this straight, a upgrade at the 2g(thj) no triangle, a much weaker east, no meddling president, a suppose more polish kp and willy, a better back up sf/pf (beasly) then lance, and 80% of the roster coming back.

And this should result in less wins than last yr? smh

Gudris wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:Frank is probably going to play 10mpg. There is no way they gave Baker that contract to sit for long stretches and I'm pretty sure Sessions got brought aboard to start

i think Sess is back up if someone gets imjurie

My main point was that Frank is third on the depth chart

I would start Sessions. The roster has some young and unproven players with more players fitting that profile likely coming. I just can't see a young and unproven player beginning the year as out starting point guard. Maybe that changes by the end of the year but if I'm Horny I'm not betting my job on inexperience

knicks1248 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

reub wrote:

franco12 wrote:I like some of these line ups, but the one thing that sinks in when you are looking at our roster, is we have a lot of marginal players, and very few stand out must be starter talents.

After Hardaway, Melo and KP, who stands out so clearly as they would start on most teams in the league?

Sessions or Baker or Frank? That is a disaster waiting to happen!

Lee, Thomas, Beasley. There is something to not get excited about.

Noah is a huge question mark, and I don't think you can rationally expect anything except maybe towel waiving from him.

Willy, Dotson clearly have some upside and are part of the Future. Kuz is kinda on the bubble in this department, given he is nearly 30.

And KOQ has been solid, but how does he get minutes with the glut we have upfront, in terms of Melo, KP & Willy?

As I think further, Melo makes a ton of sense off the bench:

Sessions
Hardaway
Thomas/Lee
Willy
KP

Melo, Baker, KOQ/Noah are your main guys in off the bench.

I think you're waaaay undervaluing Frank.

I hope so, and I don't mean to discount his potential.

However, the fact is he is 19 years young and has not played 1 minute here in the US. We didn't see any time in the summer league.

So, to think that is the group of PGs we're going with into the season, yes, that is likely a disaster waiting to happen.

Heck, I think you could make the argument that had we changed FO personnel before the draft, we'd have picked DSjr over Frank.

Certainly I would feel much better with him as our PG since I got to see him perform in summer league, and do so at a high level.

I agree with the notion that you are looking at a 28 win team, plus or minus 7.

so let me get this straight, a upgrade at the 2g(thj) no triangle, a much weaker east, no meddling president, a suppose more polish kp and willy, a better back up sf/pf (beasly) then lance, and 80% of the roster coming back.

And this should result in less wins than last yr? smh

The last two seasons, projection systems like Kevin Pelton's and Fivethirtyeight's didn't ask what system the Knicks ran, didn't ask who the Knicks president was or how we conducted himself. They simply evaluated the talent on the roster and were more or less dead accurate, much more so than fans a year ago at this time.

So why do you think they're going to be wrong this year when several of your narrative arguments were not factors the last two?

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

reub wrote:

franco12 wrote:I like some of these line ups, but the one thing that sinks in when you are looking at our roster, is we have a lot of marginal players, and very few stand out must be starter talents.

After Hardaway, Melo and KP, who stands out so clearly as they would start on most teams in the league?

Sessions or Baker or Frank? That is a disaster waiting to happen!

Lee, Thomas, Beasley. There is something to not get excited about.

Noah is a huge question mark, and I don't think you can rationally expect anything except maybe towel waiving from him.

Willy, Dotson clearly have some upside and are part of the Future. Kuz is kinda on the bubble in this department, given he is nearly 30.

And KOQ has been solid, but how does he get minutes with the glut we have upfront, in terms of Melo, KP & Willy?

As I think further, Melo makes a ton of sense off the bench:

Sessions
Hardaway
Thomas/Lee
Willy
KP

Melo, Baker, KOQ/Noah are your main guys in off the bench.

I think you're waaaay undervaluing Frank.

I hope so, and I don't mean to discount his potential.

However, the fact is he is 19 years young and has not played 1 minute here in the US. We didn't see any time in the summer league.

So, to think that is the group of PGs we're going with into the season, yes, that is likely a disaster waiting to happen.

Heck, I think you could make the argument that had we changed FO personnel before the draft, we'd have picked DSjr over Frank.

Certainly I would feel much better with him as our PG since I got to see him perform in summer league, and do so at a high level.

I agree with the notion that you are looking at a 28 win team, plus or minus 7.

so let me get this straight, a upgrade at the 2g(thj) no triangle, a much weaker east, no meddling president, a suppose more polish kp and willy, a better back up sf/pf (beasly) then lance, and 80% of the roster coming back.

And this should result in less wins than last yr? smh

The last two seasons, projection systems like Kevin Pelton's and Fivethirtyeight's didn't ask what system the Knicks ran, didn't ask who the Knicks president was or how we conducted himself. They simply evaluated the talent on the roster and were more or less dead accurate, much more so than fans a year ago at this time.

So why do you think they're going to be wrong this year when several of your narrative arguments were not factors the last two?

Oh I definitely get it, at least from a talent stand point. But coaching, chemistry and cohesiveness trumps talent some times.

THE last yrs rockets are a good example of that, as they were predicted to win around 40-44 games.

I have no idea what's going to happen this yr, I just know it's time for KP to carry us in a few of these games

knicks1248 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

reub wrote:

franco12 wrote:I like some of these line ups, but the one thing that sinks in when you are looking at our roster, is we have a lot of marginal players, and very few stand out must be starter talents.

After Hardaway, Melo and KP, who stands out so clearly as they would start on most teams in the league?

Sessions or Baker or Frank? That is a disaster waiting to happen!

Lee, Thomas, Beasley. There is something to not get excited about.

Noah is a huge question mark, and I don't think you can rationally expect anything except maybe towel waiving from him.

Willy, Dotson clearly have some upside and are part of the Future. Kuz is kinda on the bubble in this department, given he is nearly 30.

And KOQ has been solid, but how does he get minutes with the glut we have upfront, in terms of Melo, KP & Willy?

As I think further, Melo makes a ton of sense off the bench:

Sessions
Hardaway
Thomas/Lee
Willy
KP

Melo, Baker, KOQ/Noah are your main guys in off the bench.

I think you're waaaay undervaluing Frank.

I hope so, and I don't mean to discount his potential.

However, the fact is he is 19 years young and has not played 1 minute here in the US. We didn't see any time in the summer league.

So, to think that is the group of PGs we're going with into the season, yes, that is likely a disaster waiting to happen.

Heck, I think you could make the argument that had we changed FO personnel before the draft, we'd have picked DSjr over Frank.

Certainly I would feel much better with him as our PG since I got to see him perform in summer league, and do so at a high level.

I agree with the notion that you are looking at a 28 win team, plus or minus 7.

so let me get this straight, a upgrade at the 2g(thj) no triangle, a much weaker east, no meddling president, a suppose more polish kp and willy, a better back up sf/pf (beasly) then lance, and 80% of the roster coming back.

And this should result in less wins than last yr? smh

The last two seasons, projection systems like Kevin Pelton's and Fivethirtyeight's didn't ask what system the Knicks ran, didn't ask who the Knicks president was or how we conducted himself. They simply evaluated the talent on the roster and were more or less dead accurate, much more so than fans a year ago at this time.

So why do you think they're going to be wrong this year when several of your narrative arguments were not factors the last two?

Oh I definitely get it, at least from a talent stand point. But coaching, chemistry and cohesiveness trumps talent some times.

THE last yrs rockets are a good example of that, as they were predicted to win around 40-44 games.

I have no idea what's going to happen this yr, I just know it's time for KP to carry us in a few of these games

Last year we had D Rose as our PG - and he surprised me with what he gave us in terms of production. Sure, he was flawed.

But he had the talent to belong in this league.

I can't say the same of our current PG crew. Sessions is probably the closest thing to a starting PG we have - and I doubt he would start for any other team- certainly not a team planning to win more than 30 games.

Ron Baker is a giant question mark. Yes he gave us grit and hustle last year, but does he really belong in the league? And as a starter? Maybe yes to the first question, but no to the second.

Frank N is a giant question mark, and at 19, hardly someone we can depend on.

I hope all 3 prove me wrong.

But 28 wins, plus or minus 7 is a fair range for them.

KP and Willy both show promise, but are still very young and physically small for the game vs. where they will hopefully be in 3-5 years.

Melo is older, and while we got decent production out of him, he had been injured in prior years. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go down for a stretch of 10-20 games at some point.

Frankie playing in high level euro competition should hopefully allow him to start.

G: Frankie
G: THJr
F: C.Lee
F: Melo
C: KP

Lets see how Hornacek manages the line-up.. he basically has a one year trial period.

SupremeCommander wrote:

Gudris wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:Frank is probably going to play 10mpg. There is no way they gave Baker that contract to sit for long stretches and I'm pretty sure Sessions got brought aboard to start

i think Sess is back up if someone gets imjurie

My main point was that Frank is third on the depth chart

I would start Sessions. The roster has some young and unproven players with more players fitting that profile likely coming. I just can't see a young and unproven player beginning the year as out starting point guard. Maybe that changes by the end of the year but if I'm Horny I'm not betting my job on inexperience

Makes sense for Frank to be third on the depth chart, given his age and lack of US experience. If Baker starts, Sessions can mentor Frank from the bench, show him what to look for. Baker might be just a sophmore, but he showed a talent for moving the ball around. He knows the holdovers better than Sessions. I guess that will be resolved in the preseason.

Sessions has never started before, would rather not tax him with too many minutes at his age. Would rather give Baker more experience as a starter, see where that goes. If both Frank and Baker show something as PGs, Baker might make a good trade chip down the road.

TLover wrote:Frankie playing in high level euro competition should hopefully allow him to start.

G: Frankie
G: THJr
F: C.Lee
F: Melo
C: KP

Lets see how Hornacek manages the line-up.. he basically has a one year trial period.

This is how i see it as well. Willy will be 6th man and play 25-30 mpg off the bench.