Knicks · We need to draft Doncic (page 1)
Gudris wrote:
You beat me to it. Doncic (and Michael Porter) is exactly why you root for the Knicks to lose a whole lot of games and get a whole lot of ping pong balls in the 2018 draft.
PG Frank
SG THJR
SF Donic (if melo leaves hopefully)
PF:Willy/KP
C: Willy/KP
Willy
KP
Donicic
3&D player from Melo trade
Frank
--------------------------
6. THJr.
7. Melo trade piece/ FA/draft pick
8. Melo trade piece/ FA/draft pick
9. Dotson
10. Ron Baker
This team will noy only be exciting, but can be a serious force going forward.
TripleThreat wrote:awe1028 wrote:You beat me to it. Doncic (and Michael Porter) is exactly why you root for the Knicks to lose a whole lot of games and get a whole lot of ping pong balls in the 2018 draft.Depends on if you think the NBA draft is rigged or not. I believe it is, and based on that, my best guess is the Clippers and/or Minnesota will end up with the top two picks.
Less than 80 percent of all POTENTIAL playoff games were played last postseason. Why is that? Both conferences were very very top heavy. That's a lot of lost revenue. Cleveland will be gutted after this season, but Golden State has to drive Adam Silver nuts. They destroy everyone and they aren't that marketable. (not compared to some wannabe rapper who shoots up nightclubs and gets 15 stewardesses pregnant and has his own cologne and dunks over a car - you know the kind of players that NBA love to market with full swag and fervor)
If you are a new owner or an owner who spent big recently on a franchise, the NBA wants you to win. Because winning and winning FAST is an incentive for more non NBA owners to bid and bid crazy to get a team and hop on that ride. The Carolina Panthers and Jacksonville Jaguars got extra picks their first year for a reason. If they both win and win fast, it ups the valuation of ALL FRANCHISES.
Ballmer spend TWO BILLION on the Clippers. Paul is gone and Griffin is probably going to get hurt. And they have no reason to be a treadmill team.
Minnesota can actually be in a position to slow down Golden State and drag out a series.
The league would have gift wrapped either Doncic or Porter to the Lakers if they had a pick. But they don't. Clearly the league wants the Lakers/Celtic rivalry to be reborn. Clearly LBJ and Paul George will end up on the Lakers next season.
Knicks have no chance at Doncic or Porter. Was there any doubt where Anthony Davis was going to go? Kyrie Irving? LBJ? Derrick Rose? This draft process is so rigged that people in the industry just joke about it in public now.
If the Knicks want top lottery picks from now on, Dolan has TO SELL THE TEAM FOR A RECORD PRICE, and the new ownership will be "gifted" some top lottery picks as the bounty for raising the value of all franchises with some stupid over the top offer.
Sounds pretty spot on.
TripleThreat wrote:awe1028 wrote:You beat me to it. Doncic (and Michael Porter) is exactly why you root for the Knicks to lose a whole lot of games and get a whole lot of ping pong balls in the 2018 draft.Depends on if you think the NBA draft is rigged or not. I believe it is, and based on that, my best guess is the Clippers and/or Minnesota will end up with the top two picks.
Less than 80 percent of all POTENTIAL playoff games were played last postseason. Why is that? Both conferences were very very top heavy. That's a lot of lost revenue. Cleveland will be gutted after this season, but Golden State has to drive Adam Silver nuts. They destroy everyone and they aren't that marketable. (not compared to some wannabe rapper who shoots up nightclubs and gets 15 stewardesses pregnant and has his own cologne and dunks over a car - you know the kind of players that NBA love to market with full swag and fervor)
If you are a new owner or an owner who spent big recently on a franchise, the NBA wants you to win. Because winning and winning FAST is an incentive for more non NBA owners to bid and bid crazy to get a team and hop on that ride. The Carolina Panthers and Jacksonville Jaguars got extra picks their first year for a reason. If they both win and win fast, it ups the valuation of ALL FRANCHISES.
Ballmer spend TWO BILLION on the Clippers. Paul is gone and Griffin is probably going to get hurt. And they have no reason to be a treadmill team.
Minnesota can actually be in a position to slow down Golden State and drag out a series.
The league would have gift wrapped either Doncic or Porter to the Lakers if they had a pick. But they don't. Clearly the league wants the Lakers/Celtic rivalry to be reborn. Clearly LBJ and Paul George will end up on the Lakers next season.
Knicks have no chance at Doncic or Porter. Was there any doubt where Anthony Davis was going to go? Kyrie Irving? LBJ? Derrick Rose? This draft process is so rigged that people in the industry just joke about it in public now.
If the Knicks want top lottery picks from now on, Dolan has TO SELL THE TEAM FOR A RECORD PRICE, and the new ownership will be "gifted" some top lottery picks as the bounty for raising the value of all franchises with some stupid over the top offer.
I agree with you in this I always think NBA or any sports as a Business entity first. That determines what you get. The reason Knicks were gifted Pat Ewing back in the days was because MSG wasn't selling out there were a lot of empty seats. The reason Cleveland was gifted 3 first picks was because LBJ left for the betterment of the NBA. They live super teams formula always have.
Now Nalod will just poopoo it as conspiracy theory.
Why would the NBA do that?
The owners own the league, and some of you think this kind of thing would sit well with them?
I can see wanting to extend TV series but the other reality is do you think the owners of the GSW would put up with losing a series if the league actually did this and a player got hurt and they lost a series?
Im not naive, but the notion of conspiracy is often bloated.
The mess the knicks created was done so mostly with their own stupidity!
As for who to draft? Yeah, we fans all know what we need. Its the path to it that can never be predicted.
Nalod wrote:Right, conspiracy works to hurt the team in the biggest market and that helps the league?
Why would the NBA do that?
The owners own the league, and some of you think this kind of thing would sit well with them?
I can see wanting to extend TV series but the other reality is do you think the owners of the GSW would put up with losing a series if the league actually did this and a player got hurt and they lost a series?Im not naive, but the notion of conspiracy is often bloated.
The mess the knicks created was done so mostly with their own stupidity!
As for who to draft? Yeah, we fans all know what we need. Its the path to it that can never be predicted.
Its fun to believe in conspiracy theories.
But here I kinda think if there were some shenanigans going on, then a team like NYC with probably more ex-NYers living all over the country would have been rewarded at some point to help us. Look at any of our road games- more fans are wearing our gear than just about any franchise.
Any time you see fans at road games wearing GS or Chicago Bulls, its cause they are front running fans.
TripleThreat wrote:And the Wizards got the #1 pick (John Wall) the draft after their owner Abe Pollin died in spite of having the 5th best odds.awe1028 wrote:You beat me to it. Doncic (and Michael Porter) is exactly why you root for the Knicks to lose a whole lot of games and get a whole lot of ping pong balls in the 2018 draft.Depends on if you think the NBA draft is rigged or not. I believe it is, and based on that, my best guess is the Clippers and/or Minnesota will end up with the top two picks.
Less than 80 percent of all POTENTIAL playoff games were played last postseason. Why is that? Both conferences were very very top heavy. That's a lot of lost revenue. Cleveland will be gutted after this season, but Golden State has to drive Adam Silver nuts. They destroy everyone and they aren't that marketable. (not compared to some wannabe rapper who shoots up nightclubs and gets 15 stewardesses pregnant and has his own cologne and dunks over a car - you know the kind of players that NBA love to market with full swag and fervor)
If you are a new owner or an owner who spent big recently on a franchise, the NBA wants you to win. Because winning and winning FAST is an incentive for more non NBA owners to bid and bid crazy to get a team and hop on that ride. The Carolina Panthers and Jacksonville Jaguars got extra picks their first year for a reason. If they both win and win fast, it ups the valuation of ALL FRANCHISES.
Ballmer spend TWO BILLION on the Clippers. Paul is gone and Griffin is probably going to get hurt. And they have no reason to be a treadmill team.
Minnesota can actually be in a position to slow down Golden State and drag out a series.
The league would have gift wrapped either Doncic or Porter to the Lakers if they had a pick. But they don't. Clearly the league wants the Lakers/Celtic rivalry to be reborn. Clearly LBJ and Paul George will end up on the Lakers next season.
Knicks have no chance at Doncic or Porter. Was there any doubt where Anthony Davis was going to go? Kyrie Irving? LBJ? Derrick Rose? This draft process is so rigged that people in the industry just joke about it in public now.
If the Knicks want top lottery picks from now on, Dolan has TO SELL THE TEAM FOR A RECORD PRICE, and the new ownership will be "gifted" some top lottery picks as the bounty for raising the value of all franchises with some stupid over the top offer.
THe odds are never in the worst teams favor.
How many times the Knicks even been in the running for a top 5 pick?
We don't rebuild until recently. We dropped two spots with KP and got lucky. Better KP than Ok4 or Russell.
I'd have taken Towns No. 1. For that matter, I think few have the stones to admit they'd taken KP at the 2.
Moving on, the draft conspiracy is all fabricated because some of you think the league runs the draft. Its the owners league!!!!!
KNicks used to have monetary advantages, and we blew it.
We made bad trades.
We traded Eddy for two first round picks and proceeded to be really bad.
No, im not bitching about league conspiracy when ignorance and short term greed ruled this teams decisions.
Nobody put a gun to Detroits head and made them take Darko over Melo.
Clev got lucky cuz it positioned it self to be lucky when they got Lebron.
Sonics got lucky when Portland took Oden.
Why would league want to have a weak NY team???
Does ESPN hate the knicks cuz they NY? Do they hate on the Yankees?
Winning matters.
TripleThreat wrote:its not rigged. How much transparency do you need?Nalod wrote:Right, conspiracy works to hurt the team in the biggest market and that helps the league?
Why would the NBA do that?The mess the knicks created was done so mostly with their own stupidity!
What is the biggest cash cow for the NBA?The massive TV contracts they get. We are talking BILLIONS. Those networks only VALUE those NBA games to be broadcast because of the ratings they get, which means they can charge for commercial time to corporations and brands and sponsors. If the NBA consistently only has less than 80 percent of it's total potential playoff games happening, what do you think happens?
The networks say, we are spending BILLIONS. And instead of filling in critical blocks of air time with high value NBA games, we are watching the GS Warriors sweep team after team 4-0 in blowouts. No nailbiters, no narrative to push, no drama, just a complete massacre by Steph Curry and friends to crush everyone.
The networks say, we want a return on our investment, we aren't getting it. All this potential revenue is LOST.
The local sponsors also feel the hit. Every extra playoff game means massive revenue to the host city, the surrounding businesses and the city in general. The local political structure wants to know, all the breaks we cut you, all the extras, all our support and our contacts and networking, where is the return on our investment?
Why do NBA games take a half hour to play the last 3-4 minutes of clock in a tick tack foul-a-thon. Because if games were only two hours, the valuation of commercial time would change. The valuation of time to sell more concessions, jerseys, stuffed Melo dolls, etc, takes a hit. Local bars don't pour as much beers. Sports themed places don't sell as many nachos.
The networks block out three hours for a game, they WANT THREE HOURS WORTH OF VALUE.
79 out of 105 total potential playoff games were played last offseason.
If the difference in sending Porter and/or Doncic to anyone but the Knicks means they get to 92 out of 105 ( basically getting half of what they lost the year before), do you think the NBA does it? Not just for the immediate revenue, but also to protect that TV contract and all future TV contracts?
You do have a point though. The Knicks are self inflicted stupid. The league did help the Celtics by gifting them the first pick, but to be in that position, Boston had to help itself first. Good signings, careful trades, good resource management. So yes, if the Knicks do better and make better moves, the league will see more incentive to give it that once last piece or last few pieces to push it over the top to get the right "league narrative"
If the NBA could get another half billion in a big TV contract, they'd murder an entire preschool if they had to do it. They'd kill every last child of every last member of UK here. They'd burn them alive like Shireen in Game of Thrones. Every major pro sport has it's own security element. We are talking, not just retired law enforcement and retired gurus from the civil legal system, but mercenaries, former military, contractors, information brokers. A private army. You think when MLB put it's foothold into Latin America and baseball there that there was no bloodshed? It could be basketball, it could be women's makeup, it could be Post It notes, put enough money into something and people are gonna get clipped. If they are willing to cut your childrens throats in front of you for a few nickels in your pocket, you think they are going to hesitate to rig a machine go spit out one ping pong ball over another?
Look, if you don't think it's all rigged, you don't, I respect that, I respect your viewpoint and right to it.
And I think you bring up a good point, the Knicks have to help themselves here as well.
My take? Put yourself in a position where the marketing and "narrative" determines it's in the best interest of the NBA to cheat for you.
Also if you consider the downside of rigging it there is no logic there whatsoever. None. Can imagine the legal fall out that would occur if anything was ever proven? Is Silver pushing for lottery reform because its rigged? I mean just ask the most basic questions and the rigged conspiracy is laughable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Finals...
2016 finals did go 7 games.......Ebb and flow?
Seems NFL got hurt by election cycle last year, maybe NBA has been effected by constant intense news cycle too?
Maybe its all peaked.
NASCAR looked like it was taking over the world but now declining. Boxing, nobody cares. This other form is more hype than substance. Rhonda Rousey? Things change.
Baseball has declining demographic.
NBA globally is still on the upswing.
I get where your coming from but not sure the draft is part of the conspiracy. Nor can I see Ref's killing games to support ratings.
Can't call me Naive because there is no proof to back up the theory. Ref's might throw games on their own, but a league wide coordinated effort?
I can see the fans attraction to the conspiracy, but im not on board.
fishmike wrote:It may not be rigged, but there have been some awfully "interesting" coincidences.TripleThreat wrote:its not rigged. How much transparency do you need?Nalod wrote:Right, conspiracy works to hurt the team in the biggest market and that helps the league?
Why would the NBA do that?The mess the knicks created was done so mostly with their own stupidity!
What is the biggest cash cow for the NBA?The massive TV contracts they get. We are talking BILLIONS. Those networks only VALUE those NBA games to be broadcast because of the ratings they get, which means they can charge for commercial time to corporations and brands and sponsors. If the NBA consistently only has less than 80 percent of it's total potential playoff games happening, what do you think happens?
The networks say, we are spending BILLIONS. And instead of filling in critical blocks of air time with high value NBA games, we are watching the GS Warriors sweep team after team 4-0 in blowouts. No nailbiters, no narrative to push, no drama, just a complete massacre by Steph Curry and friends to crush everyone.
The networks say, we want a return on our investment, we aren't getting it. All this potential revenue is LOST.
The local sponsors also feel the hit. Every extra playoff game means massive revenue to the host city, the surrounding businesses and the city in general. The local political structure wants to know, all the breaks we cut you, all the extras, all our support and our contacts and networking, where is the return on our investment?
Why do NBA games take a half hour to play the last 3-4 minutes of clock in a tick tack foul-a-thon. Because if games were only two hours, the valuation of commercial time would change. The valuation of time to sell more concessions, jerseys, stuffed Melo dolls, etc, takes a hit. Local bars don't pour as much beers. Sports themed places don't sell as many nachos.
The networks block out three hours for a game, they WANT THREE HOURS WORTH OF VALUE.
79 out of 105 total potential playoff games were played last offseason.
If the difference in sending Porter and/or Doncic to anyone but the Knicks means they get to 92 out of 105 ( basically getting half of what they lost the year before), do you think the NBA does it? Not just for the immediate revenue, but also to protect that TV contract and all future TV contracts?
You do have a point though. The Knicks are self inflicted stupid. The league did help the Celtics by gifting them the first pick, but to be in that position, Boston had to help itself first. Good signings, careful trades, good resource management. So yes, if the Knicks do better and make better moves, the league will see more incentive to give it that once last piece or last few pieces to push it over the top to get the right "league narrative"
If the NBA could get another half billion in a big TV contract, they'd murder an entire preschool if they had to do it. They'd kill every last child of every last member of UK here. They'd burn them alive like Shireen in Game of Thrones. Every major pro sport has it's own security element. We are talking, not just retired law enforcement and retired gurus from the civil legal system, but mercenaries, former military, contractors, information brokers. A private army. You think when MLB put it's foothold into Latin America and baseball there that there was no bloodshed? It could be basketball, it could be women's makeup, it could be Post It notes, put enough money into something and people are gonna get clipped. If they are willing to cut your childrens throats in front of you for a few nickels in your pocket, you think they are going to hesitate to rig a machine go spit out one ping pong ball over another?
Look, if you don't think it's all rigged, you don't, I respect that, I respect your viewpoint and right to it.
And I think you bring up a good point, the Knicks have to help themselves here as well.
My take? Put yourself in a position where the marketing and "narrative" determines it's in the best interest of the NBA to cheat for you.
Also if you consider the downside of rigging it there is no logic there whatsoever. None. Can imagine the legal fall out that would occur if anything was ever proven? Is Silver pushing for lottery reform because its rigged? I mean just ask the most basic questions and the rigged conspiracy is laughable.
TripleThreat wrote:The league would have gift wrapped either Doncic or Porter to the Lakers if they had a pick.
Yet the league blocked the Paul trade to the Lakers. The Lakers have been denied the chance to draft Wiggins, Parker, Emiid, Towns, Simmons.
They've been arguably the NBA's worst team for four years. The NBA is doing an awful job conspiring to make the Lakers better.
This draft process is so rigged that people in the industry just joke about it in public now.
No they don't, and you're not going to prove otherwise, because you can't.
If the Knicks want top lottery picks from now on, Dolan has TO SELL THE TEAM FOR A RECORD PRICE, and the new ownership will be "gifted" some top lottery picks as the bounty for raising the value of all franchises with some stupid over the top offer.
As always, the problem with the conspiracy theories is they collapse under the weight of their own logic, but the people who believe in them aren't very good at identifying logic, and are too invested in them to actually scrutinize their premises.
This ridiculous theory relies on the notion that teams like the Knicks and the Kings and for many years the Wolves who just can't gain any traction idly sit by allow the league to cater to other teams.
If you don't immediately recognize how stupid this is, the problem is you just can't.
TripleThreat wrote:If the NBA could get another half billion in a big TV contract, they'd murder an entire preschool if they had to do it. They'd kill every last child of every last member of UK here. They'd burn them alive like Shireen in Game of Thrones. Every major pro sport has it's own security element. We are talking, not just retired law enforcement and retired gurus from the civil legal system, but mercenaries, former military, contractors, information brokers. A private army. You think when MLB put it's foothold into Latin America and baseball there that there was no bloodshed? It could be basketball, it could be women's makeup, it could be Post It notes, put enough money into something and people are gonna get clipped. If they are willing to cut your childrens throats in front of you for a few nickels in your pocket, you think they are going to hesitate to rig a machine go spit out one ping pong ball over another?
Conspiracy theories are good for fun and games. It makes no sense for me that anyone who is a fan or follower of a sports league who believe it's rigged would remain a fan or follower, but that's a topic for another time.
This however, isn't fun and games.
This is frankly, disturbing.
If you genuinely believe Adam Silver, Roger Goodell, Rob Manfred. etc, either do or potentially would order mass homicide or genocide, I mean this in all sincerity, you should seek help. This is an irrational, and underlyingly violent worldview.
TripleThreat wrote:awe1028 wrote:You beat me to it. Doncic (and Michael Porter) is exactly why you root for the Knicks to lose a whole lot of games and get a whole lot of ping pong balls in the 2018 draft.Depends on if you think the NBA draft is rigged or not. I believe it is, and based on that, my best guess is the Clippers and/or Minnesota will end up with the top two picks.
Less than 80 percent of all POTENTIAL playoff games were played last postseason. Why is that? Both conferences were very very top heavy. That's a lot of lost revenue. Cleveland will be gutted after this season, but Golden State has to drive Adam Silver nuts. They destroy everyone and they aren't that marketable. (not compared to some wannabe rapper who shoots up nightclubs and gets 15 stewardesses pregnant and has his own cologne and dunks over a car - you know the kind of players that NBA love to market with full swag and fervor)
If you are a new owner or an owner who spent big recently on a franchise, the NBA wants you to win. Because winning and winning FAST is an incentive for more non NBA owners to bid and bid crazy to get a team and hop on that ride. The Carolina Panthers and Jacksonville Jaguars got extra picks their first year for a reason. If they both win and win fast, it ups the valuation of ALL FRANCHISES.
Ballmer spend TWO BILLION on the Clippers. Paul is gone and Griffin is probably going to get hurt. And they have no reason to be a treadmill team.
Minnesota can actually be in a position to slow down Golden State and drag out a series.
The league would have gift wrapped either Doncic or Porter to the Lakers if they had a pick. But they don't. Clearly the league wants the Lakers/Celtic rivalry to be reborn. Clearly LBJ and Paul George will end up on the Lakers next season.
Knicks have no chance at Doncic or Porter. Was there any doubt where Anthony Davis was going to go? Kyrie Irving? LBJ? Derrick Rose? This draft process is so rigged that people in the industry just joke about it in public now.
If the Knicks want top lottery picks from now on, Dolan has TO SELL THE TEAM FOR A RECORD PRICE, and the new ownership will be "gifted" some top lottery picks as the bounty for raising the value of all franchises with some stupid over the top offer.
I am not sure I agree with you the draft is rigged. I am not saying I disagree either. I have no COMPELLING evidence either way.
You state, "Clearly the league wants the Lakers/Celtics rivalry" and I think in part you are basing this on the fact the Celtics and Lakers got the top two picks in the draft.
However the NBA draft just as in other sports' drafts is set up to reward the worst teams with the highest picks. Unlike other sports the worse team is not GUARANTEED to get the first pick. In looking at the history, it seems to me the NBA draft has gone just about as would be expected
In 2017, the Celtics (via the Nets) and the Lakers had the two worse records thus it is not surprising they "won" the top two picks. Where is the evidence of rigging?
In 2016, 2015 2011 Philadelphia Minnesota Cleveland all had the worst records respectively and got the first picks. Again where is the rigging?
There have been persistent rumors of draft rigging and if you subscribe to the theory "where there is smoke there is fire" which I do to some extent it is probably prudent to keep an open mind about the possibility. But to accuse the NBA of rigging, I am not ready to go that far. Until further evidence is presented at most I will say is I have an open mind.
I will also have to disagree with your comment, "the Knicks have no chance at Donca and Porter". Having a competitive team in New York would certainly be good for the NBA. The League was never more popular and profitable than when the Knicks and Bulls were battling it out during the Patrick and Michael era.
IMHO, The knicks are on the verge of and one wing superstar (Doncic, Porter) away from being competitive again. Given the impact a once again relevant Knicks team would have on the NBA, it seems to me if rigging is indeed going on the Knicks have a very good chance of being gifted Doncic or Porter.