Knicks · Porzingis ranked 22 from ESPN rank, too high/low/just right? (page 1)

He stinks this year he falls into Melo territory

What I will find fascinating is how Melo takes it when everyone thinks KP is better than Melo

martin wrote:Thought it would take KP at least 3 years to make the jump and I expect a big one this year. Next year though, watch out

I agree. I think by year 4 you typically see who a player is.

Porzingis' lone stat rival? Only a young LeBron can compare

Kristaps Porzingis and LeBron James are in an elite club. They're the only players in NBA history to amass 1,000 rebounds, 150 made 3s and 100 blocks in their first two seasons. The list of players who've compiled 2,000 points, 1,000 rebounds, 250 blocks and 100 made 3-pointers in their first two seasons is even smaller.

It's only Porzingis. That's it. Maybe it's that unique profile -- a never-seen-before blend of height, shooting and shot-blocking -- that has landed Porzingis at No. 22 in ESPN's #NBArank. Does he deserve to be ranked in the top 25 at this point in his career? That's certainly up for debate. Porzingis is surrounded by the likes of Klay Thompson (19), Gordon Hayward (20), Mike Conley (23) and Blake Griffin (24) on the list. Reasonable people can disagree as to whether he deserves to be in the same sentence as those stars. His numbers last season were solid (18.1 PPG, 7.2 RPG) but not spectacular.

But if the 22-year-old makes the kind of leap that the Knicks are hoping for this season, his ranking might seem more appropriate in a few months. Porzingis made significant increases in field goal percentage and per-game scoring from Year 1 to Year 2, so there's reason to believe he can make a similar jump this season. Can he make the kind of jump that puts him in the league's 95th percentile? That probably depends on his pecking order in the Knicks' offense. Last year, Porzingis ranked third in usage behind Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Rose. It seems, at this point, as if Anthony will be with the Knicks through at least the early part of the season. And as long as Anthony is in New York, Porzingis won't be the Knicks' clear No. 1 scoring option.

That idea might upset some Knicks fans who want to see a slow rebuild around Porzingis and the young core in New York. But there are people around the league who believe that Porzingis could be better off playing with Anthony -- or another No. 1 scorer -- for at least one more season.

Doing so would give him more time to develop before he faces the nightly focus of NBA defenses. It would also shield him from the scrutiny that comes with being the face of the Knicks. If and when Anthony is traded, Porzingis will become the primary target for opposing defenses. Is he ready for that task? Last year, New York went 1-5 when Porzingis was in the lineup and Anthony wasn't. As FiveThirtyEight's Chris Herring pointed out earlier this week, the Knicks were a bottom-five offense when Porzingis was on the floor without Anthony.

Porzingis' individual numbers weren't bad when Anthony was out (14.6 points and 5.6 rebounds per game, 45 percent shooting). But it would be understandable if, based on last season, people wondered whether Porzingis was ready to assume a leading role for the Knicks. The numbers above, though, need some further context:

1. The Knicks won only 31 games last season, so it's not as if Porzingis was surrounded by elite talent when Anthony was out.

2. The club was also running the triangle offense -- an approach that many said hindered the team's ability on that end of the floor. It's reasonable to think that Jeff Hornacek's offense this season will give Porzingis some easier looks at the basket. Just as they did last season, Hornacek and the Knicks want to push the pace this season and, per league sources, would like to see Porzingis at center more frequently (he spent roughly 20 percent of his minutes at center last season, per 82games.com).

3. It looks as if Porzingis has added significant muscle to his frame this offseason, one of his stated goals heading into the summer. So he might be better equipped to hold position in the post and to handle the grueling nature of an 82-game season (Porzingis has missed an average of 13 games per season over the past two years.)

Also worth noting: Porzingis thrived as the No. 1 option for the Latvian national team in the European Championships, scoring 23.6 points in 27 minutes and shooting 53 percent from the field. He led the tournament in blocks per game (1.9) -- though ranked just 20th in rebounding (5.9 per game).

Can Porzingis' Eurobasket success translate to the NBA? That's difficult to predict.

Some players' strong Eurobasket numbers have been a precursor to good NBA campaigns. Goran Dragic finished in the top five in scoring and assists in the 2013 tournament and won the NBA's Most Improved Player award in the following season.

Can Porzingis follow a similar path? It's certainly possible. Can he establish himself as one of the top 25 players in the NBA? That's another intriguing question, and one we'll have an answer to in the coming months.

martin wrote:Thought it would take KP at least 3 years to make the jump and I expect a big one this year. Next year though, watch out

I hold the same line of thinking on that projectory.

newyorknewyork wrote:

martin wrote:Thought it would take KP at least 3 years to make the jump and I expect a big one this year. Next year though, watch out

I hold the same line of thinking on that projectory.

If you add an assist requirement, let's say 200+ assists (KP had 191) and reduced the # of blocks by a mere 10 to 240, this could be an article about Karl Anthony Towns.

Towns had a whopping 381 assists to KP's 191 in 2 seasons - nearly 2x as many! Which brings me to my point: KP's core deficit as a player (in my opinion) is his under-developed playmaking - passing for assists and making plays for others. He's a bit of a black hole (like Amare Stoudemire) in this regard - if he passes it's more about passing back out to the perimeter rather than putting the ball in a place where the recipient can score OR at least put additional pressure on the D.

Sure, he can improve in other aspects (back to basket game, defend on the perimeter, rebound, improve shot selection) but the true top players learn how to make their teammates better by creating opportunities for them. His assists per 36 mins actually decreased in year 2, with an overall average of 1.4apg, 1.6 per 36 mins, 2.3 per 100 possessions.

For reference, some career stats:
Dirk Nowitzki(a scorer first and foremost, a key Euro benchmark): 2.5apg, 2.6 per 36 mins, 3.7 per 100 possessions.
Pau Gasol's stats (the other Euro benchmark): 3.2apg, 3.4 per 36 mins, 4.9 per 100 possessions.
Patrick Ewing (the Knicks benchmark): 1.9apg, 2.0 per 36 mins, 2.6 per 100 possessions.

KP has some catching up to do to reach even Ewing levels.

newyorknewyork wrote:

martin wrote:Thought it would take KP at least 3 years to make the jump and I expect a big one this year. Next year though, watch out

I hold the same line of thinking on that projectory.

guy needs to up those rebound #s, there pathetic for a guy his height. He should be average 10 boards in his sleep. Part of it is the fact that he plays on the perimeter so much.

technomaster wrote:KP has some catching up to do to reach even Ewing levels.

He has catching up to do to reach Ewing's age.

Ewing was a 23 year old rookie.

I agree that if KP's in the conversation it's a pretty good thing. He has HoF-capable talent. And with mild improvement we could see him as a 20ppg, 8rpg, 2apg, 2.5bpg sort of player in his age 22 season.

Ewing's age 23 rookie season (85/86 season): 20ppg, 9rpg, 2apg, 2.1bpg.

To be clear, it's debatable who has the better backcourt to pass the ball as well as to make shots:
Ewing: Rory Sparrow, Darrell Walker, Gerald Wilkins, and Trent Tucker
KP: Ntilikina, Sessions, Hardaway Jr, Lee, Baker

Kristaps Porzingis and LeBron James are in an elite club. They're the only players in NBA history to amass 1,000 rebounds, 150 made 3s and 100 blocks in their first two seasons. The list of players who've compiled 2,000 points, 1,000 rebounds, 250 blocks and 100 made 3-pointers in their first two seasons is even smaller.

It's only Porzingis. That's it.

We literally have 2 of the top 15 young bigs in the NBA right now. God would have been exciting if we had Dennis Smith with THJR, Melo, Will and KP

MS wrote:Per ESPN:

Kristaps Porzingis and LeBron James are in an elite club. They're the only players in NBA history to amass 1,000 rebounds, 150 made 3s and 100 blocks in their first two seasons. The list of players who've compiled 2,000 points, 1,000 rebounds, 250 blocks and 100 made 3-pointers in their first two seasons is even smaller.

It's only Porzingis. That's it.

We literally have 2 of the top 15 young bigs in the NBA right now. God would have been exciting if we had Dennis Smith with THJR, Melo, Will and KP

DSJ is an exciting player so of course he'd bring that to the Knicks. Still have yet to see what Nitty is going to be. I think from an overall balance perspective it's going to be better to have Nitty's defense and versatility but we have to allow some time to see how this all plays out.

I'm betting KP will benefit more from Nitty's defense than DSJ's exciting moves but that's just my opinion. From what I've seen from Nitty he's a very unselfish Team Oriented player and that could really boost KP's game.

nixluva wrote:

MS wrote:Per ESPN:

Kristaps Porzingis and LeBron James are in an elite club. They're the only players in NBA history to amass 1,000 rebounds, 150 made 3s and 100 blocks in their first two seasons. The list of players who've compiled 2,000 points, 1,000 rebounds, 250 blocks and 100 made 3-pointers in their first two seasons is even smaller.

It's only Porzingis. That's it.

We literally have 2 of the top 15 young bigs in the NBA right now. God would have been exciting if we had Dennis Smith with THJR, Melo, Will and KP

DSJ is an exciting player so of course he'd bring that to the Knicks. Still have yet to see what Nitty is going to be. I think from an overall balance perspective it's going to be better to have Nitty's defense and versatility but we have to allow some time to see how this all plays out.

I'm betting KP will benefit more from Nitty's defense than DSJ's exciting moves but that's just my opinion. From what I've seen from Nitty he's a very unselfish Team Oriented player and that could really boost KP's game.

Agree - we've seen players like Dennis Smith before. They look great on the highlights, but do they help you WIN? I'd argue no. We don't need point guards with no court vision who over dribble and look primarily for their own shot.