Off Topic · OT: Standing for the National Anthem (page 2)
BRIGGS wrote:To me the NAtional Anthem is a simple respect of all current and former service members of the military. Those people have tremendous courage and have given millions of lives over 250 years to keep the country safe from foreign opponents. Without them no one here would have a job or safety of a home. It is not a platform to promote an agenda-- there are many other platforms for that. If you don't stand to give a simple thanks for those who have given their lives to provide a better one for you-- it's sad and wrong
Well, my Prince takevoer didn't work, so I'll try this...
In some countries taking a knee during a National Anthem will get you a one way ticket to prison, or the morgue.
The ability of a Kaepernick to exercise his right to protest honors those who gave their lives in part, for that freedom. When you tell people that they shouldn't exercise these rights because it makes you uncomfortable, you are diminishing that sacrifice. Protest was never meant to be pretty, or comfortable.
Yet when one political party in this country is almost solely responsible for trying to systematically limit and discourage voting by one particular demographic, the 'news' sites the fearful and uneducated rely on for the misinformation don't cry 'it dishonors the troops', they make up things about nonexistent voter fraud.
martin wrote:dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topicoff-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.
That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...
I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.
Having toxic, stupid shit on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.
Knickoftime wrote:Those uppity Jehovah's Witnesses...Always causing problems.
Lol
Knickoftime wrote:martin wrote:dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topicoff-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.
That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...
I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.
Having toxic, stupid shit on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.
and briggs opinion to be expressed as well. just because you view something as "toxic, stuipd shit" doesn't mean you are any more correct than briggs. you are no better than anyone on this forum.
Knickoftime wrote:martin wrote:dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topicoff-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.
That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...
I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.
Having toxic, stupid shit on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.
That doesn't help me. What to do?
The first step in persuasion is to get that misinformed and under-educated out there.
newyorknewyork wrote:arkrud wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:We have all grown up in the US on white controlled narrative. But we are in the information age today. We celebrated Columbus day in the past. Yet after the pubic has gotten access to his personal journal. He has proven to not be worthy of being celebrated.We also sit here and talk about disrespecting veterans due to the flag.
Yet the nation struggles to provide veterans with
-Affordable health insurance
-Medical care assesibility
-Affordable housing/homeless veterans
-Mental health care
-Faster Disability processSo is it the veterans that people are looking to honor? Or white controlled narrative?
The moral values of 21 century apply to Columbus the same way they apply to spiders from Mars.
And so issues with treatment of veterans has nothing to do with the flag and anthem.
Both are symbols of the country we all leave in.
Disrespecting them we simply disrespect ourselves.
This is no white narrative or black narrative - it is American narrative.
This symbols created to bring people together regardless of their differences and using then to pull people apart is counterproductive.Columbus was still celebrated due to lack of awareness which was the point.
Public made it about veterans when he clearly didn't have issues with veterans. To use as a cover to not address the real issues.
America has been run and controlled by whites since its creation.
If its an American narrative then ALL American history should be told accurately.
I disagree that it has been counter productive.Issues that Kap has kneeled for have been on going issues for centuries. Lack of justice and lack of accountability. The lack of justice and lack of accountability has lead to the kneeling of the flag which is supposed to represent these things. Cause and effect.
A cop unjustly murdering an American and getting acquitted on all charges is disrespecting the flag and what it stands for.
Bingo! Kap taking a knee has nothing to do with the Veterans but everything to do with systematic racism and oppression...
For current generations they've seen that things may have changed in some ways but underneath the overall changes is a still pervasive current of Racial inequality. For White America a lot of this seems to be coming out of nowhere but in the Black Community this has been a constant issue SINCE DAY ONE. It NEVER went away for us. From my Great Grandparents, Grandparents, Parents day to my lifetime it's NEVER been a fair society.
I don't know if some in White Society can grasp this. Can you imagine what it's like at a Black Family get together when the younger generations bring up the subject of current events? Then Great Grandma starts to speak about how things were in the 20's and 30's and Grandma starts to tell of the 40's and 50's and Mom talks of the 60's and 70's? There's literally no time we can talk of where there wasn't a very real level of inequality.
BRIGGS wrote:The first question one may ask when disregarding the 'theme" of standing is "what have I personally done for my country". What did this country afford my family and I? Have I ever served the countries military? Have I put myself in harms way to protect others freedoms? Have I talked to members of the military who have done more than I and asked them what do they feel about the "National anthem". Do they feel it would be disrespectful to them if someone chose not to stand for it. The National Anthem is not a self-serving platform--go look at the origins of OUR military. Feel free to ask REAL servicemen how they feel about the SIMPLE appreciation and then come back here. It's really easy to disrespect the people who keep the nation safe everyday and who have for 250 years. Its not a platform for protest--its a pledge of respect. How does disrespecting hundreds of millions of servicemen create any good? I'm going to be selfish and use this platform of respect for people who have done nothing but safeguarded my well being?
Dude, you are clueless!!!! Are you reading the responses in this thread! The protest has nothing to do with the military! But since you are so gung-ho about your national anthem, do you care about the actual author of the national anthem? Do you care that the original national anthem had the following verse:
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
The national anthem that you speak of talks about killing slaves....In this day and age, why do we still sing this song?!
newyorknewyork wrote:arkrud wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:We have all grown up in the US on white controlled narrative. But we are in the information age today. We celebrated Columbus day in the past. Yet after the pubic has gotten access to his personal journal. He has proven to not be worthy of being celebrated.We also sit here and talk about disrespecting veterans due to the flag.
Yet the nation struggles to provide veterans with
-Affordable health insurance
-Medical care assesibility
-Affordable housing/homeless veterans
-Mental health care
-Faster Disability processSo is it the veterans that people are looking to honor? Or white controlled narrative?
The moral values of 21 century apply to Columbus the same way they apply to spiders from Mars.
And so issues with treatment of veterans has nothing to do with the flag and anthem.
Both are symbols of the country we all leave in.
Disrespecting them we simply disrespect ourselves.
This is no white narrative or black narrative - it is American narrative.
This symbols created to bring people together regardless of their differences and using then to pull people apart is counterproductive.Columbus was still celebrated due to lack of awareness which was the point.
Public made it about veterans when he clearly didn't have issues with veterans. To use as a cover to not address the real issues.
America has been run and controlled by whites since its creation.
If its an American narrative then ALL American history should be told accurately.
I disagree that it has been counter productive.Issues that Kap has kneeled for have been on going issues for centuries. Lack of justice and lack of accountability. The lack of justice and lack of accountability has lead to the kneeling of the flag which is supposed to represent these things. Cause and effect.
A cop unjustly murdering an American and getting acquitted on all charges is disrespecting the flag and what it stands for.
America was build by whites, run, and controlled by whites since its creation.
Then it became a country of all races, nations, genders, and religions.
This process is still in progress and cannot be stopped.
It is not easy and will not be easy moving forward.
If somebody has no courage to participate - the world is big and have countries build, run, and controlled by Africans, Asians, Russians, Muslims.
Everyone can find something they like if they do not like it here.
what % of military joined bc they had no other options? nationalistic pride is there but there are also other reasons folks join the military. it's not a coincidence that most of the military is made up of economically challenged individuals or those without higher education. the military is a business now like everything else.
Uptown wrote:BRIGGS wrote:The first question one may ask when disregarding the 'theme" of standing is "what have I personally done for my country". What did this country afford my family and I? Have I ever served the countries military? Have I put myself in harms way to protect others freedoms? Have I talked to members of the military who have done more than I and asked them what do they feel about the "National anthem". Do they feel it would be disrespectful to them if someone chose not to stand for it. The National Anthem is not a self-serving platform--go look at the origins of OUR military. Feel free to ask REAL servicemen how they feel about the SIMPLE appreciation and then come back here. It's really easy to disrespect the people who keep the nation safe everyday and who have for 250 years. Its not a platform for protest--its a pledge of respect. How does disrespecting hundreds of millions of servicemen create any good? I'm going to be selfish and use this platform of respect for people who have done nothing but safeguarded my well being?Dude, you are clueless!!!! Are you reading the responses in this thread! The protest has nothing to do with the military! But since you are so gung-ho about your national anthem, do you care about the actual author of the national anthem? Do you care that the original national anthem had the following verse:
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.The national anthem that you speak of talks about killing slaves....In this day and age, why do we still sing this song?!
Yes, and I object to calling only people who serve in the military "servicemen." If you are a doctor, a teacher, a sanitation worker, or just a kind person, you are serving the country.
djsunyc wrote:why does the anthem have to be correlated to armed services? and why does the anthem have to be played at sporting events? but thats another discussion.what % of military joined bc they had no other options? nationalistic pride is there but there are also other reasons folks join the military. it's not a coincidence that most of the military is made up of economically challenged individuals or those without higher education. the military is a business now like everything else.
It was designated our national anthem 100 years ago but it's origins are well over 200 years.
It's an act of respect for the freedoms we have. Is there anyone in the us. Imposing they are not free to come Nd go as they choose? It's a show of national unity in an imperfect world -- how someone can it as a platform of protest is insane. If I have a problem with police-- my constitutional rights allows me to " vote" go to the source and protest peacefully-- and while I have the right to sit during the national anthem I choose respect for these same freedoms. It is 100% sa religious to sit during the national anthem in the military -- but at least you can if you so choose-- go try that in a. Inch of other countries and see if you live to talk about it
Bonn1997 wrote:Uptown wrote:BRIGGS wrote:The first question one may ask when disregarding the 'theme" of standing is "what have I personally done for my country". What did this country afford my family and I? Have I ever served the countries military? Have I put myself in harms way to protect others freedoms? Have I talked to members of the military who have done more than I and asked them what do they feel about the "National anthem". Do they feel it would be disrespectful to them if someone chose not to stand for it. The National Anthem is not a self-serving platform--go look at the origins of OUR military. Feel free to ask REAL servicemen how they feel about the SIMPLE appreciation and then come back here. It's really easy to disrespect the people who keep the nation safe everyday and who have for 250 years. Its not a platform for protest--its a pledge of respect. How does disrespecting hundreds of millions of servicemen create any good? I'm going to be selfish and use this platform of respect for people who have done nothing but safeguarded my well being?Dude, you are clueless!!!! Are you reading the responses in this thread! The protest has nothing to do with the military! But since you are so gung-ho about your national anthem, do you care about the actual author of the national anthem? Do you care that the original national anthem had the following verse:
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.The national anthem that you speak of talks about killing slaves....In this day and age, why do we still sing this song?!
Yes, and I object to calling only people who serve in the military "servicemen." If you are a doctor, a teacher, a sanitation worker, or just a kind person, you are serving the country.
Service are those who spent time protecting this land in the military.
BRIGGS wrote:To me the NAtional Anthem is a simple respect of all current and former service members of the military. Those people have tremendous courage and have given millions of lives over 250 years to keep the country safe from foreign opponents. Without them no one here would have a job or safety of a home. It is not a platform to promote an agenda-- there are many other platforms for that. If you don't stand to give a simple thanks for those who have given their lives to provide a better one for you-- it's sad and wrong
Wasn't the National Anthem created before we ever had a standing military?
...and other countries don't have a military yet "have a job...safety...and home(s)".
Uptown wrote:ex police officer jason stockley was just acquitted in St Louis for the murder of a black man...We have seen time and time again numerous police officers being acquitted for murder by an unjust judicial system. Systematic racism is a major reason why Kap takes a knee....
It's not just police officers. George Zimmerman, for instance, was no officer of the law.
Bonn1997 wrote:Uptown wrote:BRIGGS wrote:The first question one may ask when disregarding the 'theme" of standing is "what have I personally done for my country". What did this country afford my family and I? Have I ever served the countries military? Have I put myself in harms way to protect others freedoms? Have I talked to members of the military who have done more than I and asked them what do they feel about the "National anthem". Do they feel it would be disrespectful to them if someone chose not to stand for it. The National Anthem is not a self-serving platform--go look at the origins of OUR military. Feel free to ask REAL servicemen how they feel about the SIMPLE appreciation and then come back here. It's really easy to disrespect the people who keep the nation safe everyday and who have for 250 years. Its not a platform for protest--its a pledge of respect. How does disrespecting hundreds of millions of servicemen create any good? I'm going to be selfish and use this platform of respect for people who have done nothing but safeguarded my well being?Dude, you are clueless!!!! Are you reading the responses in this thread! The protest has nothing to do with the military! But since you are so gung-ho about your national anthem, do you care about the actual author of the national anthem? Do you care that the original national anthem had the following verse:
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.The national anthem that you speak of talks about killing slaves....In this day and age, why do we still sing this song?!
Yes, and I object to calling only people who serve in the military "servicemen." If you are a doctor, a teacher, a sanitation worker, or just a kind person, you are serving the country.
Exactly! Especially teachers who are routinely scrutinized and poorly compensated despite being so crucial to furthering a strong and healthy democracy.
NardDogNation wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Uptown wrote:BRIGGS wrote:The first question one may ask when disregarding the 'theme" of standing is "what have I personally done for my country". What did this country afford my family and I? Have I ever served the countries military? Have I put myself in harms way to protect others freedoms? Have I talked to members of the military who have done more than I and asked them what do they feel about the "National anthem". Do they feel it would be disrespectful to them if someone chose not to stand for it. The National Anthem is not a self-serving platform--go look at the origins of OUR military. Feel free to ask REAL servicemen how they feel about the SIMPLE appreciation and then come back here. It's really easy to disrespect the people who keep the nation safe everyday and who have for 250 years. Its not a platform for protest--its a pledge of respect. How does disrespecting hundreds of millions of servicemen create any good? I'm going to be selfish and use this platform of respect for people who have done nothing but safeguarded my well being?Dude, you are clueless!!!! Are you reading the responses in this thread! The protest has nothing to do with the military! But since you are so gung-ho about your national anthem, do you care about the actual author of the national anthem? Do you care that the original national anthem had the following verse:
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.The national anthem that you speak of talks about killing slaves....In this day and age, why do we still sing this song?!
Yes, and I object to calling only people who serve in the military "servicemen." If you are a doctor, a teacher, a sanitation worker, or just a kind person, you are serving the country.Exactly! Especially teachers who are routinely scrutinized and poorly compensated despite being so crucial to furthering a strong and healthy democracy.
My brother teaches math and makes over 80 k a year with complete summers off ana a full workload of 190 days. How does that compare with people who don't even make 1/4 of that and put their lives on the line. Admirable vocation-- absolutely-- does it compare to servicemen-- you have to be kidding.
If you want to sit during the National Anthem-- go ahead but believe me 80-90% of the people will think you are disrespectful to our nation. You would not be here without the military -- you would not have exsisted
If anyone thinks any type of platform will be hear while disrespecting those you are trying to communicate with-- what kind of common sense does that make?
arkrud wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:arkrud wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:We have all grown up in the US on white controlled narrative. But we are in the information age today. We celebrated Columbus day in the past. Yet after the pubic has gotten access to his personal journal. He has proven to not be worthy of being celebrated.We also sit here and talk about disrespecting veterans due to the flag.
Yet the nation struggles to provide veterans with
-Affordable health insurance
-Medical care assesibility
-Affordable housing/homeless veterans
-Mental health care
-Faster Disability processSo is it the veterans that people are looking to honor? Or white controlled narrative?
The moral values of 21 century apply to Columbus the same way they apply to spiders from Mars.
And so issues with treatment of veterans has nothing to do with the flag and anthem.
Both are symbols of the country we all leave in.
Disrespecting them we simply disrespect ourselves.
This is no white narrative or black narrative - it is American narrative.
This symbols created to bring people together regardless of their differences and using then to pull people apart is counterproductive.Columbus was still celebrated due to lack of awareness which was the point.
Public made it about veterans when he clearly didn't have issues with veterans. To use as a cover to not address the real issues.
America has been run and controlled by whites since its creation.
If its an American narrative then ALL American history should be told accurately.
I disagree that it has been counter productive.Issues that Kap has kneeled for have been on going issues for centuries. Lack of justice and lack of accountability. The lack of justice and lack of accountability has lead to the kneeling of the flag which is supposed to represent these things. Cause and effect.
A cop unjustly murdering an American and getting acquitted on all charges is disrespecting the flag and what it stands for.
America was build by whites, run, and controlled by whites since its creation.
Then it became a country of all races, nations, genders, and religions.
This process is still in progress and cannot be stopped.
It is not easy and will not be easy moving forward.
If somebody has no courage to participate - the world is big and have countries build, run, and controlled by Africans, Asians, Russians, Muslims.
Everyone can find something they like if they do not like it here.
This country was NEVER a White Country. The establishment of Colonies, States and then the United States of America has always been multi-racial and the Physical building of the Country was most certainly not done by White people alone. I don't know when you think this country actually started but Africans have been here for a long time and of course Native Americans have been here for thousands of years.
Tue, 1606-01-03http://www.aaregistry.org/historic_event...
*On this date in 1606, the first recorded birth of a child of African decent in the continental United States occurred. This was is in the Cathedral Parish Archives in St. Augustine, Florida, thirteen years before enslaved Africans were first brought to the English colony at Jamestown in 1619.William Tucker, the first Black child born (recorded) in the American colonies, was baptized on January 3, 1624, in Jamestown, Virginia. Two of the first Africans to be brought to North America in 1619 were simply called Anthony and Isabella they were married and in 1624 gave birth to the first Black child born in English America naming him William Tucker in honor of a Virginia Planter.
My ancestors slaved away and are buried in this ground long before most of the European Immigrants that came later arrived here. I was able to trace my Father's line all the way back to 1758 tho I will likely never know who they were or if others in my family were here even before that. My people were here BEFORE the American Revolution and fought in most of the wars. I have relatives that fought in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Vietnam and Afghanistan. This is as much our country as any White person living today. So why should we be treated like 2nd class or worse?