Knicks · The Melo era sucked (page 4)

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

No. Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. But I guess that clearly proves your point that.it was Melos fault that the Knicks underachieved all these years and not the lack of talent placed around him.

Wait...So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact right? Okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So the likes of Smith, Felton, Tyson and cripple STAT (Who if I remember didn't play the first 2 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above? Nah

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:Melo was everything we traded for. A me first scorer who plays one way... his. His lousy playoff performances came with him also. We had one good really enjoyable year. The rest was about about him collecting massive paychecks and telling the world how great he was.

OKC is perfect for him. 3rd option is about right. Im sure he will do well in the role. Have fun Melo.

Yeah, one good year. I sure hated going to the second round of the playoffs, didn't you? 36 points in game 6, what a waste! And maybe he should have signed for the league minimum, like all other franchise players do...

It was a great year. Go look at Melo's FG% that year. Now go look at Melo's FG% in the playoffs for that year.

I believe Melo was 3rd in MVP voting and that was 100% deserved. I did nothing but praise Melo for that entire season.

Shocking you remember Melo's great game 6 performance. You seem to have forgotten WHY that was an elimination game in the first place. Maybe go look up some box scores on bb reference and tell me how well Melo played in the whole series.

In fact go look at MElo's career shooting. Now go look at his playoff shooting. Notice a trend?

I know you got some butt-hurt from this trade but I think you will be OK. Or maybe not. Melo is right where he fits. 3rd option next to a center and wings who will cover for his poor defense. Its a great spot for him. Be happy.

Bahahaha. Still trying to win the argument. Your full of made up jargon and hiding behind bullshit.

Ahh, the field goal % argument, good for tgise that dis not see that season, watched that series or know anything about basketball. Is that the best you have for putting down an MVP candidate year? Gtfoh! I guess the amazing contributions of Shump, Felton, Smith and Chandler were just let down by that 40% percentage of a mediocre participant.

Btw. Love the way you always rush to accusing guys of butt hurting, masturbating, when they tell you Melo was not the cause of all your pain. What gives?

Btw, ALL Melo fans are extremely happy he got traded. But guess we expected you to be wrong about that angle as well.

But okay lets end the Melo debate. Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

And please don't change the subject by bringing out all the other made up speculations, fan perspectives, rumored fact I.e....leader, professionalism, baby momma, not taking guys to PR, not being a mentor, good team mate, what a reporter on a very well known blog site with 39 followers said, or what your aunt's cousin sisters dogs trainer confirmed aboit him.

The subject is simple. Melo's failures are reflected in the numbers. You are just unable to see them because your a Melo homer. He's your hero. I get it. You have established that. Im not. Im a Knick fan and I have no allegence to a player ABOVE the team. Its that simple. Melo has performed poorly many times, and he's got a track record of shooting his teams out of playoffs games.

Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

So yea... I would expect you to only remember the great game 6 he had. Your a Melo fan. However as a Knick fan I remember being down 3-2 to a lower seed because your hero shot us out of those games.

Any other questions?

Yea.. Im a hater. You simply refuse to look at the guy's body of work, and understand his failures are just that. HIS. Cause he performed POORLY. I used caps to help you see it. Your welcome.

So the fact that the second leading scorer on that team (JR Smith) only shot 29% in that series and his scoring average dropped from 18 ppg during the season to 13 ppg and Jason Kidd barely played in the last two games is meaningless? It's all on Melo?

maybe you should answer that question as you said it, not me. I never said "it's all on Melo."

And to chime on what Bonn said I would have to say no. The Melo era didnt suck. It was boring. The Isiah era sucked. Melo era had a couple nice stretches. The 54 win season was great and I enjoyed his best. Linsanity was fun. KP and "DadMelo" was the most exciting because of KP's unicorn emergence. Suck? No. I mean if you followed the team in the 90s or earlier how could this era be anything but a dud?

And Welpee... is it all on Melo? Of course not, but the reality is Melo isnt Ewing, Lebron, Durant, etc and that seems to really upset some people. Melo is an all star and first ballot HOF and deservedly so. Scoring counts. There he's as good as anyone man. Melo is just not that all around "superstar." Is that hate? I mean if Ewing had a 9-23 night he probably balanced it with 15 boards and 4 blocks. Melo doesnt impact the game in those other areas so when your best player is a scorer you lean on and he shoots:
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23
for 3 games in 7 game series and you lose in 6 where is the first place you look? I mean is this hate? Its sports. Highest paid, team leader, star... look there first. How did he perform? The drama that some people here simply cant live without is funny. The whole team played poorly. Kidd gave us nothing. JR shot bricks. Tyson had a few huge games and a couple of total duds. Woodson had no answers either, I thought he was badly out coached. So no.. its not "all on Melo" despite that some (like you and hofstra) conveniently write it in when it was never said. Shits annoying if nothing else.

Melo has not been unfairly judged here. He's made out quite clean in terms of media and fan hate. He was fine. He was what he was. His era? I started watching the Knicks shortly after Ewing was drafted. I was 16ish and a buddy got me hooked. Thats my standard. This was substandard from top to bottom, Melo included. Not sure why this is so hard for some to grasp. Maybe my writing skills suck

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

Nah. You claim that we had the pieces to win in 2012? Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. O guess that clearly proves your point thatbit was Melos fault we have underachieving here and not the talent placed around him.

But okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact

And now you will come up with why you think the likes of Smith, Felton and Tyson And cripple STAY (Who if I remember didn't playbdorst 2 or 3 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above.....GO.

sober up and come back to me. I have no clue wtf your saying dude

Knicks had DPOY, #3 in MVP, 6th man of the year, and a veteran cast of playoff proven guys like Camby, Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, etc... guy that played for small but meaningful stretches. Knicks were #2 for a reason. They were an excellent team. But yea... nice revisionist history to float your argument. Knicks were also favored in vegas. Higher seed. More wins. Your making shit up. Lets let this go... your right. Melo was superstar player and victimized but poor teammates, Phil Jackson and mean people on the internet. Go be happy dude.

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

Nah. You claim that we had the pieces to win in 2012? Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. O guess that clearly proves your point thatbit was Melos fault we have underachieving here and not the talent placed around him.

But okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact

And now you will come up with why you think the likes of Smith, Felton and Tyson And cripple STAY (Who if I remember didn't playbdorst 2 or 3 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above.....GO.

sober up and come back to me. I have no clue wtf your saying dude

Knicks had DPOY, #3 in MVP, 6th man of the year, and a veteran cast of playoff proven guys like Camby, Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, etc... guy that played for small but meaningful stretches. Knicks were #2 for a reason. They were an excellent team. But yea... nice revisionist history to float your argument. Knicks were also favored in vegas. Higher seed. More wins. Your making shit up. Lets let this go... your right. Melo was superstar player and victimized but poor teammates, Phil Jackson and mean people on the internet. Go be happy dude.

Bro, think I just laughed for 5 minutes. I gave you a list of Pacers on their squad and our highest minute contributors and you bring up a DNP role call of non factors? You cant be serious. Some mentioned were injured and out of the series? But you claimed you watched. Lmao. Get some sleep Fish. We are done here.

Go Knicks!!

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:Melo was everything we traded for. A me first scorer who plays one way... his. His lousy playoff performances came with him also. We had one good really enjoyable year. The rest was about about him collecting massive paychecks and telling the world how great he was.

OKC is perfect for him. 3rd option is about right. Im sure he will do well in the role. Have fun Melo.

Yeah, one good year. I sure hated going to the second round of the playoffs, didn't you? 36 points in game 6, what a waste! And maybe he should have signed for the league minimum, like all other franchise players do...

It was a great year. Go look at Melo's FG% that year. Now go look at Melo's FG% in the playoffs for that year.

I believe Melo was 3rd in MVP voting and that was 100% deserved. I did nothing but praise Melo for that entire season.

Shocking you remember Melo's great game 6 performance. You seem to have forgotten WHY that was an elimination game in the first place. Maybe go look up some box scores on bb reference and tell me how well Melo played in the whole series.

In fact go look at MElo's career shooting. Now go look at his playoff shooting. Notice a trend?

I know you got some butt-hurt from this trade but I think you will be OK. Or maybe not. Melo is right where he fits. 3rd option next to a center and wings who will cover for his poor defense. Its a great spot for him. Be happy.

Bahahaha. Still trying to win the argument. Your full of made up jargon and hiding behind bullshit.

Ahh, the field goal % argument, good for tgise that dis not see that season, watched that series or know anything about basketball. Is that the best you have for putting down an MVP candidate year? Gtfoh! I guess the amazing contributions of Shump, Felton, Smith and Chandler were just let down by that 40% percentage of a mediocre participant.

Btw. Love the way you always rush to accusing guys of butt hurting, masturbating, when they tell you Melo was not the cause of all your pain. What gives?

Btw, ALL Melo fans are extremely happy he got traded. But guess we expected you to be wrong about that angle as well.

But okay lets end the Melo debate. Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

And please don't change the subject by bringing out all the other made up speculations, fan perspectives, rumored fact I.e....leader, professionalism, baby momma, not taking guys to PR, not being a mentor, good team mate, what a reporter on a very well known blog site with 39 followers said, or what your aunt's cousin sisters dogs trainer confirmed aboit him.

The subject is simple. Melo's failures are reflected in the numbers. You are just unable to see them because your a Melo homer. He's your hero. I get it. You have established that. Im not. Im a Knick fan and I have no allegence to a player ABOVE the team. Its that simple. Melo has performed poorly many times, and he's got a track record of shooting his teams out of playoffs games.

Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

So yea... I would expect you to only remember the great game 6 he had. Your a Melo fan. However as a Knick fan I remember being down 3-2 to a lower seed because your hero shot us out of those games.

Any other questions?

Yea.. Im a hater. You simply refuse to look at the guy's body of work, and understand his failures are just that. HIS. Cause he performed POORLY. I used caps to help you see it. Your welcome.

So the fact that the second leading scorer on that team (JR Smith) only shot 29% in that series and his scoring average dropped from 18 ppg during the season to 13 ppg and Jason Kidd barely played in the last two games is meaningless? It's all on Melo?

maybe you should answer that question as you said it, not me. I never said "it's all on Melo."

And to chime on what Bonn said I would have to say no. The Melo era didnt suck. It was boring. The Isiah era sucked. Melo era had a couple nice stretches. The 54 win season was great and I enjoyed his best. Linsanity was fun. KP and "DadMelo" was the most exciting because of KP's unicorn emergence. Suck? No. I mean if you followed the team in the 90s or earlier how could this era be anything but a dud?

And Welpee... is it all on Melo? Of course not, but the reality is Melo isnt Ewing, Lebron, Durant, etc and that seems to really upset some people. Melo is an all star and first ballot HOF and deservedly so. Scoring counts. There he's as good as anyone man. Melo is just not that all around "superstar." Is that hate? I mean if Ewing had a 9-23 night he probably balanced it with 15 boards and 4 blocks. Melo doesnt impact the game in those other areas so when your best player is a scorer you lean on and he shoots:
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23
for 3 games in 7 game series and you lose in 6 where is the first place you look? I mean is this hate? Its sports. Highest paid, team leader, star... look there first. How did he perform? The drama that some people here simply cant live without is funny. The whole team played poorly. Kidd gave us nothing. JR shot bricks. Tyson had a few huge games and a couple of total duds. Woodson had no answers either, I thought he was badly out coached. So no.. its not "all on Melo" despite that some (like you and hofstra) conveniently write it in when it was never said. Shits annoying if nothing else.

Melo has not been unfairly judged here. He's made out quite clean in terms of media and fan hate. He was fine. He was what he was. His era? I started watching the Knicks shortly after Ewing was drafted. I was 16ish and a buddy got me hooked. Thats my standard. This was substandard from top to bottom, Melo included. Not sure why this is so hard for some to grasp. Maybe my writing skills suck

I go waayyyy farther back than that in terms of my Knicks fan experience, back to the Willis and Clyde era. So I experienced the glory days, the McAdoo, Spencer Haywood, Marvin Webster days, the Michael Ray Richardson days, the Bernard King era, etc. So I've seen my share of great Knicks, bad Knicks, good runs, horrific runs.

I have no problem with people being honest about Melo's strengths and shortcomings. But criticizing Melo for not getting past the 2nd round with a team where his 2nd best player was JR Smith (who played like crap in the playoffs)? Other than Lebron (and maybe Dirk) how many players have carried a team with a similar collection of talent farther (not to mention, weren't they the oldest team in NBA history).

Maybe not you specifically, but I think hearing people talk about Melo as if he was JR Rider is unfair in my opinion. And then people exaggerating things like "chemistry killer" to try and validate their shots at Melo is equally frustrating.

Once again, Melo definitely had to go. I give the Knicks credit for trying to bring a star to NYC, it didn't work, he wasn't right guy to carry this franchise practically by himself. I guess the plan was for Melo, Amare and Chandler to be our "big three." At the end of the day he was closer to Marbury than he was Ewing, I get that. But the organization failed the fans more than Melo failed us. They're the ones who failed to put a decent team around him that would allow him to succeed. Does anybody really think if Melo playing differently it would've resulted in significantly more success? Substitute Melo with Kawhi Leonard or Paul George and does anyone really think the results would've been that much different? In that series with Indiana, regardless of seeds, look at their roster compared to our's and tell me the Knicks should've beat them.

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:Melo was everything we traded for. A me first scorer who plays one way... his. His lousy playoff performances came with him also. We had one good really enjoyable year. The rest was about about him collecting massive paychecks and telling the world how great he was.

OKC is perfect for him. 3rd option is about right. Im sure he will do well in the role. Have fun Melo.

Yeah, one good year. I sure hated going to the second round of the playoffs, didn't you? 36 points in game 6, what a waste! And maybe he should have signed for the league minimum, like all other franchise players do...

It was a great year. Go look at Melo's FG% that year. Now go look at Melo's FG% in the playoffs for that year.

I believe Melo was 3rd in MVP voting and that was 100% deserved. I did nothing but praise Melo for that entire season.

Shocking you remember Melo's great game 6 performance. You seem to have forgotten WHY that was an elimination game in the first place. Maybe go look up some box scores on bb reference and tell me how well Melo played in the whole series.

In fact go look at MElo's career shooting. Now go look at his playoff shooting. Notice a trend?

I know you got some butt-hurt from this trade but I think you will be OK. Or maybe not. Melo is right where he fits. 3rd option next to a center and wings who will cover for his poor defense. Its a great spot for him. Be happy.

Bahahaha. Still trying to win the argument. Your full of made up jargon and hiding behind bullshit.

Ahh, the field goal % argument, good for tgise that dis not see that season, watched that series or know anything about basketball. Is that the best you have for putting down an MVP candidate year? Gtfoh! I guess the amazing contributions of Shump, Felton, Smith and Chandler were just let down by that 40% percentage of a mediocre participant.

Btw. Love the way you always rush to accusing guys of butt hurting, masturbating, when they tell you Melo was not the cause of all your pain. What gives?

Btw, ALL Melo fans are extremely happy he got traded. But guess we expected you to be wrong about that angle as well.

But okay lets end the Melo debate. Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

And please don't change the subject by bringing out all the other made up speculations, fan perspectives, rumored fact I.e....leader, professionalism, baby momma, not taking guys to PR, not being a mentor, good team mate, what a reporter on a very well known blog site with 39 followers said, or what your aunt's cousin sisters dogs trainer confirmed aboit him.

The subject is simple. Melo's failures are reflected in the numbers. You are just unable to see them because your a Melo homer. He's your hero. I get it. You have established that. Im not. Im a Knick fan and I have no allegence to a player ABOVE the team. Its that simple. Melo has performed poorly many times, and he's got a track record of shooting his teams out of playoffs games.

Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

So yea... I would expect you to only remember the great game 6 he had. Your a Melo fan. However as a Knick fan I remember being down 3-2 to a lower seed because your hero shot us out of those games.

Any other questions?

Yea.. Im a hater. You simply refuse to look at the guy's body of work, and understand his failures are just that. HIS. Cause he performed POORLY. I used caps to help you see it. Your welcome.

So the fact that the second leading scorer on that team (JR Smith) only shot 29% in that series and his scoring average dropped from 18 ppg during the season to 13 ppg and Jason Kidd barely played in the last two games is meaningless? It's all on Melo?

maybe you should answer that question as you said it, not me. I never said "it's all on Melo."

And to chime on what Bonn said I would have to say no. The Melo era didnt suck. It was boring. The Isiah era sucked. Melo era had a couple nice stretches. The 54 win season was great and I enjoyed his best. Linsanity was fun. KP and "DadMelo" was the most exciting because of KP's unicorn emergence. Suck? No. I mean if you followed the team in the 90s or earlier how could this era be anything but a dud?

And Welpee... is it all on Melo? Of course not, but the reality is Melo isnt Ewing, Lebron, Durant, etc and that seems to really upset some people. Melo is an all star and first ballot HOF and deservedly so. Scoring counts. There he's as good as anyone man. Melo is just not that all around "superstar." Is that hate? I mean if Ewing had a 9-23 night he probably balanced it with 15 boards and 4 blocks. Melo doesnt impact the game in those other areas so when your best player is a scorer you lean on and he shoots:
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23
for 3 games in 7 game series and you lose in 6 where is the first place you look? I mean is this hate? Its sports. Highest paid, team leader, star... look there first. How did he perform? The drama that some people here simply cant live without is funny. The whole team played poorly. Kidd gave us nothing. JR shot bricks. Tyson had a few huge games and a couple of total duds. Woodson had no answers either, I thought he was badly out coached. So no.. its not "all on Melo" despite that some (like you and hofstra) conveniently write it in when it was never said. Shits annoying if nothing else.

Melo has not been unfairly judged here. He's made out quite clean in terms of media and fan hate. He was fine. He was what he was. His era? I started watching the Knicks shortly after Ewing was drafted. I was 16ish and a buddy got me hooked. Thats my standard. This was substandard from top to bottom, Melo included. Not sure why this is so hard for some to grasp. Maybe my writing skills suck

I go waayyyy farther back than that in terms of my Knicks fan experience, back to the Willis and Clyde era. So I experienced the glory days, the McAdoo, Spencer Haywood, Marvin Webster days, the Michael Ray Richardson days, the Bernard King era, etc. So I've seen my share of great Knicks, bad Knicks, good runs, horrific runs.

I have no problem with people being honest about Melo's strengths and shortcomings. But criticizing Melo for not getting past the 2nd round with a team where his 2nd best player was JR Smith (who played like crap in the playoffs)? Other than Lebron (and maybe Dirk) how many players have carried a team with a similar collection of talent farther (not to mention, weren't they the oldest team in NBA history).

Maybe not you specifically, but I think hearing people talk about Melo as if he was JR Rider is unfair in my opinion. And then people exaggerating things like "chemistry killer" to try and validate their shots at Melo is equally frustrating.

Once again, Melo definitely had to go. I give the Knicks credit for trying to bring a star to NYC, it didn't work, he wasn't right guy to carry this franchise practically by himself. I guess the plan was for Melo, Amare and Chandler to be our "big three." At the end of the day he was closer to Marbury than he was Ewing, I get that. But the organization failed the fans more than Melo failed us. They're the ones who failed to put a decent team around him that would allow him to succeed. Does anybody really think if Melo playing differently it would've resulted in significantly more success? Substitute Melo with Kawhi Leonard or Paul George and does anyone really think the results would've been that much different? In that series with Indiana, regardless of seeds, look at their roster compared to our's and tell me the Knicks should've beat them.

Spoken by a true knowledgeable KNICK fan. MY sentiment exactly. Some forget that LBJ had a minimum of 2 All stars, in their PRIME, alongside him.

But now on to the future. Just hope that the organazation does not repeat it's inability to manage or build a winning team. (Coaches, GM, Prez, players) Perhaps they will be held "accountable", some day, but only if fans realize what it really takes to build a winner. And it's not just getting ONE good player to blame if we lose. Already read an article questioning KP's ability to lead. Sound familiar?

Obviously the past 17 years have been pretty rough even long before melo got here. I always try to be pretty objective. I can't put a lot of blame on melo. In the end our owner stuck his nose into basketball decisions which really caused the bad times we have faced since basically van Gundy left. The melo trade probably shouldn't have happened to begin with because it really drained all of our assets and we were really behind the 8 ball from that point. In the end I'm at peace with it. I wish melo luck in OKC BUT I'm very excited to be a Knick fan for the first time in quite a while. For years I wanted to start build a core through our youth and t keep our draft picks. We also don't have too many terrible contracts that we hamper us in free agency.

So the thread title is just wrong.

Here endeth the lesson.

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

Nah. You claim that we had the pieces to win in 2012? Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. O guess that clearly proves your point thatbit was Melos fault we have underachieving here and not the talent placed around him.

But okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact

And now you will come up with why you think the likes of Smith, Felton and Tyson And cripple STAY (Who if I remember didn't playbdorst 2 or 3 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above.....GO.

sober up and come back to me. I have no clue wtf your saying dude

Knicks had DPOY, #3 in MVP, 6th man of the year, and a veteran cast of playoff proven guys like Camby, Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, etc... guy that played for small but meaningful stretches. Knicks were #2 for a reason. They were an excellent team. But yea... nice revisionist history to float your argument. Knicks were also favored in vegas. Higher seed. More wins. Your making shit up. Lets let this go... your right. Melo was superstar player and victimized but poor teammates, Phil Jackson and mean people on the internet. Go be happy dude.

Bro, think I just laughed for 5 minutes. I gave you a list of Pacers on their squad and our highest minute contributors and you bring up a DNP role call of non factors? You cant be serious. Some mentioned were injured and out of the series? But you claimed you watched. Lmao. Get some sleep Fish. We are done here.

Go Knicks!!

Why were the Knick's favored in the series? Your right... Knicks had NO chance to win. They had a 2nd tier all star who's career playoff numbers show a pattern of poor playoff performances, and not much after that. Your 100% right. Melo couldnt hold Paul George's jock, and the Pacers had a better supporting cast as well. You are right. Im not sure what I was trying to prove. So cant blame Melo for Knicks having no chance. Fair

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

Nah. You claim that we had the pieces to win in 2012? Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. O guess that clearly proves your point thatbit was Melos fault we have underachieving here and not the talent placed around him.

But okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact

And now you will come up with why you think the likes of Smith, Felton and Tyson And cripple STAY (Who if I remember didn't playbdorst 2 or 3 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above.....GO.

sober up and come back to me. I have no clue wtf your saying dude

Knicks had DPOY, #3 in MVP, 6th man of the year, and a veteran cast of playoff proven guys like Camby, Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, etc... guy that played for small but meaningful stretches. Knicks were #2 for a reason. They were an excellent team. But yea... nice revisionist history to float your argument. Knicks were also favored in vegas. Higher seed. More wins. Your making shit up. Lets let this go... your right. Melo was superstar player and victimized but poor teammates, Phil Jackson and mean people on the internet. Go be happy dude.

Bro, think I just laughed for 5 minutes. I gave you a list of Pacers on their squad and our highest minute contributors and you bring up a DNP role call of non factors? You cant be serious. Some mentioned were injured and out of the series? But you claimed you watched. Lmao. Get some sleep Fish. We are done here.

Go Knicks!!

Why were the Knick's favored in the series? Your right... Knicks had NO chance to win. They had a 2nd tier all star who's career playoff numbers show a pattern of poor playoff performances, and not much after that. Your 100% right. Melo couldnt hold Paul George's jock, and the Pacers had a better supporting cast as well. You are right. Im not sure what I was trying to prove. So cant blame Melo for Knicks having no chance. Fair

Melo career regular season: 24.8 ppg/6.6 reb/45% fg
Melo career playoffs: 25.7 ppg/7.3 reb/41% fg

And yes, Lebron and Steph Curry's fg% dropped in the playoffs too. So I guess this is where someone digs up some advanced metrics to show Melo is horrible in the playoffs. Also interesting that nobody bothers to post Paul George's fg% numbers in that series.

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

Nah. You claim that we had the pieces to win in 2012? Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. O guess that clearly proves your point thatbit was Melos fault we have underachieving here and not the talent placed around him.

But okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact

And now you will come up with why you think the likes of Smith, Felton and Tyson And cripple STAY (Who if I remember didn't playbdorst 2 or 3 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above.....GO.

sober up and come back to me. I have no clue wtf your saying dude

Knicks had DPOY, #3 in MVP, 6th man of the year, and a veteran cast of playoff proven guys like Camby, Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, etc... guy that played for small but meaningful stretches. Knicks were #2 for a reason. They were an excellent team. But yea... nice revisionist history to float your argument. Knicks were also favored in vegas. Higher seed. More wins. Your making shit up. Lets let this go... your right. Melo was superstar player and victimized but poor teammates, Phil Jackson and mean people on the internet. Go be happy dude.

Bro, think I just laughed for 5 minutes. I gave you a list of Pacers on their squad and our highest minute contributors and you bring up a DNP role call of non factors? You cant be serious. Some mentioned were injured and out of the series? But you claimed you watched. Lmao. Get some sleep Fish. We are done here.

Go Knicks!!

Why were the Knick's favored in the series? Your right... Knicks had NO chance to win. They had a 2nd tier all star who's career playoff numbers show a pattern of poor playoff performances, and not much after that. Your 100% right. Melo couldnt hold Paul George's jock, and the Pacers had a better supporting cast as well. You are right. Im not sure what I was trying to prove. So cant blame Melo for Knicks having no chance. Fair

Melo career regular season: 24.8 ppg/6.6 reb/45% fg
Melo career playoffs: 25.7 ppg/7.3 reb/41% fg

And yes, Lebron and Steph Curry's fg% dropped in the playoffs too. So I guess this is where someone digs up some advanced metrics to show Melo is horrible in the playoffs.

41% is pretty bad actually but no one is saying he's a bad player. What we gave up for him (trades and salary) required him to be much better though. For a while, he had the largest contract in the country. But he was just a symptom of many more fundamental problems. He wasn't the problem.

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

Nah. You claim that we had the pieces to win in 2012? Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. O guess that clearly proves your point thatbit was Melos fault we have underachieving here and not the talent placed around him.

But okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact

And now you will come up with why you think the likes of Smith, Felton and Tyson And cripple STAY (Who if I remember didn't playbdorst 2 or 3 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above.....GO.

sober up and come back to me. I have no clue wtf your saying dude

Knicks had DPOY, #3 in MVP, 6th man of the year, and a veteran cast of playoff proven guys like Camby, Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, etc... guy that played for small but meaningful stretches. Knicks were #2 for a reason. They were an excellent team. But yea... nice revisionist history to float your argument. Knicks were also favored in vegas. Higher seed. More wins. Your making shit up. Lets let this go... your right. Melo was superstar player and victimized but poor teammates, Phil Jackson and mean people on the internet. Go be happy dude.

Bro, think I just laughed for 5 minutes. I gave you a list of Pacers on their squad and our highest minute contributors and you bring up a DNP role call of non factors? You cant be serious. Some mentioned were injured and out of the series? But you claimed you watched. Lmao. Get some sleep Fish. We are done here.

Go Knicks!!

Why were the Knick's favored in the series? Your right... Knicks had NO chance to win. They had a 2nd tier all star who's career playoff numbers show a pattern of poor playoff performances, and not much after that. Your 100% right. Melo couldnt hold Paul George's jock, and the Pacers had a better supporting cast as well. You are right. Im not sure what I was trying to prove. So cant blame Melo for Knicks having no chance. Fair

Melo career regular season: 24.8 ppg/6.6 reb/45% fg
Melo career playoffs: 25.7 ppg/7.3 reb/41% fg

And yes, Lebron and Steph Curry's fg% dropped in the playoffs too. So I guess this is where someone digs up some advanced metrics to show Melo is horrible in the playoffs. Also interesting that nobody bothers to post Paul George's fg% numbers in that series.

I defended MElo a ton that season. He had a great year for the Knicks. I was frustrated with some of his playoff games so I dug into it at that time: http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

Melo's playoff performances when looked in a W/L context are tough to ignore

Here is what I wrote:

So I was on basketball-reference.com and went through all his playoff game logs. I kept my criteria simple. 40% Shooting.
Folks have always said Melo's had to play tough teams, the West was loaded, cant hold him accountable for not beating the Spurs and Lakers etc when nobody was... we have been through it ad nauseum
I knew this year would show it pretty clearly but other years paint the same picture when you combine them.
These last playoffs: (this was the 12 playoff games after the 54 win series)
Melo shoots +40%: Knicks are 5-1
Melo shoots -40%: Knicks are 1-5
Wow. I certainly blame JR's abysmal shooting as well, and I especially kill Chandler for gettig mowed over by Hibbert but when you look at the best player on the team hard to ignore that.
His career?
Melo shoots +40%: his teams are 15-17
Melo shoots -40%: his teams are 7-24
What is uterly shocking is that in 66 playoff games Melo has failed to shoot over 40% in 34 of them.
Melo had a monster year last year and Im hoping he picks up where he left off in that regard. But come post season something needs to give if the Knicks wants to have any chance of competing.
To me the only saving grace is defense. If we build a defensive monster we can still win regardless of this. In 2009 when Melo was playing with KMart, Nene, Billups and Dante Jones they had the formula to make it work.
Can Chandler, MWP, Shump and Felton match the defense those Denver guys were able to grind out?
Hard to see this team ever sustain a playoff run without an elite caliber defense...

We can talk about his teammates and whatever people want to bring up. Sure.. its fair to say most of Melo's playoff teams were not favored or set up to advance. Does that excuse the fact that in more than half the playoff games he's played in he's failed to shoot 40%? Sorry.. thats just poor play, especially from your lead scorer.

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

Nah. You claim that we had the pieces to win in 2012? Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. O guess that clearly proves your point thatbit was Melos fault we have underachieving here and not the talent placed around him.

But okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact

And now you will come up with why you think the likes of Smith, Felton and Tyson And cripple STAY (Who if I remember didn't playbdorst 2 or 3 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above.....GO.

sober up and come back to me. I have no clue wtf your saying dude

Knicks had DPOY, #3 in MVP, 6th man of the year, and a veteran cast of playoff proven guys like Camby, Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, etc... guy that played for small but meaningful stretches. Knicks were #2 for a reason. They were an excellent team. But yea... nice revisionist history to float your argument. Knicks were also favored in vegas. Higher seed. More wins. Your making shit up. Lets let this go... your right. Melo was superstar player and victimized but poor teammates, Phil Jackson and mean people on the internet. Go be happy dude.

Bro, think I just laughed for 5 minutes. I gave you a list of Pacers on their squad and our highest minute contributors and you bring up a DNP role call of non factors? You cant be serious. Some mentioned were injured and out of the series? But you claimed you watched. Lmao. Get some sleep Fish. We are done here.

Go Knicks!!

Why were the Knick's favored in the series? Your right... Knicks had NO chance to win. They had a 2nd tier all star who's career playoff numbers show a pattern of poor playoff performances, and not much after that. Your 100% right. Melo couldnt hold Paul George's jock, and the Pacers had a better supporting cast as well. You are right. Im not sure what I was trying to prove. So cant blame Melo for Knicks having no chance. Fair

Melo career regular season: 24.8 ppg/6.6 reb/45% fg
Melo career playoffs: 25.7 ppg/7.3 reb/41% fg

And yes, Lebron and Steph Curry's fg% dropped in the playoffs too. So I guess this is where someone digs up some advanced metrics to show Melo is horrible in the playoffs. Also interesting that nobody bothers to post Paul George's fg% numbers in that series.

I defended MElo a ton that season. He had a great year for the Knicks. I was frustrated with some of his playoff games so I dug into it at that time: http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

Melo's playoff performances when looked in a W/L context are tough to ignore

Here is what I wrote:

So I was on basketball-reference.com and went through all his playoff game logs. I kept my criteria simple. 40% Shooting.
Folks have always said Melo's had to play tough teams, the West was loaded, cant hold him accountable for not beating the Spurs and Lakers etc when nobody was... we have been through it ad nauseum
I knew this year would show it pretty clearly but other years paint the same picture when you combine them.
These last playoffs: (this was the 12 playoff games after the 54 win series)
Melo shoots +40%: Knicks are 5-1
Melo shoots -40%: Knicks are 1-5
Wow. I certainly blame JR's abysmal shooting as well, and I especially kill Chandler for gettig mowed over by Hibbert but when you look at the best player on the team hard to ignore that.
His career?
Melo shoots +40%: his teams are 15-17
Melo shoots -40%: his teams are 7-24
What is uterly shocking is that in 66 playoff games Melo has failed to shoot over 40% in 34 of them.
Melo had a monster year last year and Im hoping he picks up where he left off in that regard. But come post season something needs to give if the Knicks wants to have any chance of competing.
To me the only saving grace is defense. If we build a defensive monster we can still win regardless of this. In 2009 when Melo was playing with KMart, Nene, Billups and Dante Jones they had the formula to make it work.
Can Chandler, MWP, Shump and Felton match the defense those Denver guys were able to grind out?
Hard to see this team ever sustain a playoff run without an elite caliber defense...

We can talk about his teammates and whatever people want to bring up. Sure.. its fair to say most of Melo's playoff teams were not favored or set up to advance. Does that excuse the fact that in more than half the playoff games he's played in he's failed to shoot 40%? Sorry.. thats just poor play, especially from your lead scorer.

Yes, his skills are off the charts. With smart decision making, he could have been much more efficient in the regular season and post-season. Too many contested mid range shots.
If you want to call him a hall-of-fame scorer, then he should be able to shoot efficiently even with poor teammates. That's what hall-of-fame scorers do (KG, Lebron, Westbrook, Harden, even Kevin Love ). If you want to say he's not a hall-of-fame scorer, that's another story.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

Nah. You claim that we had the pieces to win in 2012? Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. O guess that clearly proves your point thatbit was Melos fault we have underachieving here and not the talent placed around him.

But okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact

And now you will come up with why you think the likes of Smith, Felton and Tyson And cripple STAY (Who if I remember didn't playbdorst 2 or 3 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above.....GO.

sober up and come back to me. I have no clue wtf your saying dude

Knicks had DPOY, #3 in MVP, 6th man of the year, and a veteran cast of playoff proven guys like Camby, Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, etc... guy that played for small but meaningful stretches. Knicks were #2 for a reason. They were an excellent team. But yea... nice revisionist history to float your argument. Knicks were also favored in vegas. Higher seed. More wins. Your making shit up. Lets let this go... your right. Melo was superstar player and victimized but poor teammates, Phil Jackson and mean people on the internet. Go be happy dude.

Bro, think I just laughed for 5 minutes. I gave you a list of Pacers on their squad and our highest minute contributors and you bring up a DNP role call of non factors? You cant be serious. Some mentioned were injured and out of the series? But you claimed you watched. Lmao. Get some sleep Fish. We are done here.

Go Knicks!!

Why were the Knick's favored in the series? Your right... Knicks had NO chance to win. They had a 2nd tier all star who's career playoff numbers show a pattern of poor playoff performances, and not much after that. Your 100% right. Melo couldnt hold Paul George's jock, and the Pacers had a better supporting cast as well. You are right. Im not sure what I was trying to prove. So cant blame Melo for Knicks having no chance. Fair

Melo career regular season: 24.8 ppg/6.6 reb/45% fg
Melo career playoffs: 25.7 ppg/7.3 reb/41% fg

And yes, Lebron and Steph Curry's fg% dropped in the playoffs too. So I guess this is where someone digs up some advanced metrics to show Melo is horrible in the playoffs. Also interesting that nobody bothers to post Paul George's fg% numbers in that series.

I defended MElo a ton that season. He had a great year for the Knicks. I was frustrated with some of his playoff games so I dug into it at that time: http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

Melo's playoff performances when looked in a W/L context are tough to ignore

Here is what I wrote:

So I was on basketball-reference.com and went through all his playoff game logs. I kept my criteria simple. 40% Shooting.
Folks have always said Melo's had to play tough teams, the West was loaded, cant hold him accountable for not beating the Spurs and Lakers etc when nobody was... we have been through it ad nauseum
I knew this year would show it pretty clearly but other years paint the same picture when you combine them.
These last playoffs: (this was the 12 playoff games after the 54 win series)
Melo shoots +40%: Knicks are 5-1
Melo shoots -40%: Knicks are 1-5
Wow. I certainly blame JR's abysmal shooting as well, and I especially kill Chandler for gettig mowed over by Hibbert but when you look at the best player on the team hard to ignore that.
His career?
Melo shoots +40%: his teams are 15-17
Melo shoots -40%: his teams are 7-24
What is uterly shocking is that in 66 playoff games Melo has failed to shoot over 40% in 34 of them.
Melo had a monster year last year and Im hoping he picks up where he left off in that regard. But come post season something needs to give if the Knicks wants to have any chance of competing.
To me the only saving grace is defense. If we build a defensive monster we can still win regardless of this. In 2009 when Melo was playing with KMart, Nene, Billups and Dante Jones they had the formula to make it work.
Can Chandler, MWP, Shump and Felton match the defense those Denver guys were able to grind out?
Hard to see this team ever sustain a playoff run without an elite caliber defense...

We can talk about his teammates and whatever people want to bring up. Sure.. its fair to say most of Melo's playoff teams were not favored or set up to advance. Does that excuse the fact that in more than half the playoff games he's played in he's failed to shoot 40%? Sorry.. thats just poor play, especially from your lead scorer.

Yes, his skills are off the charts. With smart decision making, he could have been much more efficient in the regular season and post-season. Too many contested mid range shots.
If you want to call him a hall-of-fame scorer, then he should be able to shoot efficiently even with poor teammates. That's what hall-of-fame scorers do (KG, Lebron, Westbrook, Harden, even Kevin Love ). If you want to say he's not a hall-of-fame scorer, that's another story.

Allen Iverson?

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

Nah. You claim that we had the pieces to win in 2012? Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. O guess that clearly proves your point thatbit was Melos fault we have underachieving here and not the talent placed around him.

But okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact

And now you will come up with why you think the likes of Smith, Felton and Tyson And cripple STAY (Who if I remember didn't playbdorst 2 or 3 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above.....GO.

sober up and come back to me. I have no clue wtf your saying dude

Knicks had DPOY, #3 in MVP, 6th man of the year, and a veteran cast of playoff proven guys like Camby, Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, etc... guy that played for small but meaningful stretches. Knicks were #2 for a reason. They were an excellent team. But yea... nice revisionist history to float your argument. Knicks were also favored in vegas. Higher seed. More wins. Your making shit up. Lets let this go... your right. Melo was superstar player and victimized but poor teammates, Phil Jackson and mean people on the internet. Go be happy dude.

Bro, think I just laughed for 5 minutes. I gave you a list of Pacers on their squad and our highest minute contributors and you bring up a DNP role call of non factors? You cant be serious. Some mentioned were injured and out of the series? But you claimed you watched. Lmao. Get some sleep Fish. We are done here.

Go Knicks!!

Why were the Knick's favored in the series? Your right... Knicks had NO chance to win. They had a 2nd tier all star who's career playoff numbers show a pattern of poor playoff performances, and not much after that. Your 100% right. Melo couldnt hold Paul George's jock, and the Pacers had a better supporting cast as well. You are right. Im not sure what I was trying to prove. So cant blame Melo for Knicks having no chance. Fair

Melo career regular season: 24.8 ppg/6.6 reb/45% fg
Melo career playoffs: 25.7 ppg/7.3 reb/41% fg

And yes, Lebron and Steph Curry's fg% dropped in the playoffs too. So I guess this is where someone digs up some advanced metrics to show Melo is horrible in the playoffs. Also interesting that nobody bothers to post Paul George's fg% numbers in that series.

I defended MElo a ton that season. He had a great year for the Knicks. I was frustrated with some of his playoff games so I dug into it at that time: http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

Melo's playoff performances when looked in a W/L context are tough to ignore

Here is what I wrote:

So I was on basketball-reference.com and went through all his playoff game logs. I kept my criteria simple. 40% Shooting.
Folks have always said Melo's had to play tough teams, the West was loaded, cant hold him accountable for not beating the Spurs and Lakers etc when nobody was... we have been through it ad nauseum
I knew this year would show it pretty clearly but other years paint the same picture when you combine them.
These last playoffs: (this was the 12 playoff games after the 54 win series)
Melo shoots +40%: Knicks are 5-1
Melo shoots -40%: Knicks are 1-5
Wow. I certainly blame JR's abysmal shooting as well, and I especially kill Chandler for gettig mowed over by Hibbert but when you look at the best player on the team hard to ignore that.
His career?
Melo shoots +40%: his teams are 15-17
Melo shoots -40%: his teams are 7-24
What is uterly shocking is that in 66 playoff games Melo has failed to shoot over 40% in 34 of them.
Melo had a monster year last year and Im hoping he picks up where he left off in that regard. But come post season something needs to give if the Knicks wants to have any chance of competing.
To me the only saving grace is defense. If we build a defensive monster we can still win regardless of this. In 2009 when Melo was playing with KMart, Nene, Billups and Dante Jones they had the formula to make it work.
Can Chandler, MWP, Shump and Felton match the defense those Denver guys were able to grind out?
Hard to see this team ever sustain a playoff run without an elite caliber defense...

We can talk about his teammates and whatever people want to bring up. Sure.. its fair to say most of Melo's playoff teams were not favored or set up to advance. Does that excuse the fact that in more than half the playoff games he's played in he's failed to shoot 40%? Sorry.. thats just poor play, especially from your lead scorer.

Yes, his skills are off the charts. With smart decision making, he could have been much more efficient in the regular season and post-season. Too many contested mid range shots.
If you want to call him a hall-of-fame scorer, then he should be able to shoot efficiently even with poor teammates. That's what hall-of-fame scorers do (KG, Lebron, Westbrook, Harden, even Kevin Love ). If you want to say he's not a hall-of-fame scorer, that's another story.

Allen Iverson?

Not the kind of player I'd want to build my team around. If he was just 3rd or 4th best on the team, that would be fine.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

Nah. You claim that we had the pieces to win in 2012? Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. O guess that clearly proves your point thatbit was Melos fault we have underachieving here and not the talent placed around him.

But okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact

And now you will come up with why you think the likes of Smith, Felton and Tyson And cripple STAY (Who if I remember didn't playbdorst 2 or 3 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above.....GO.

sober up and come back to me. I have no clue wtf your saying dude

Knicks had DPOY, #3 in MVP, 6th man of the year, and a veteran cast of playoff proven guys like Camby, Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, etc... guy that played for small but meaningful stretches. Knicks were #2 for a reason. They were an excellent team. But yea... nice revisionist history to float your argument. Knicks were also favored in vegas. Higher seed. More wins. Your making shit up. Lets let this go... your right. Melo was superstar player and victimized but poor teammates, Phil Jackson and mean people on the internet. Go be happy dude.

Bro, think I just laughed for 5 minutes. I gave you a list of Pacers on their squad and our highest minute contributors and you bring up a DNP role call of non factors? You cant be serious. Some mentioned were injured and out of the series? But you claimed you watched. Lmao. Get some sleep Fish. We are done here.

Go Knicks!!

Why were the Knick's favored in the series? Your right... Knicks had NO chance to win. They had a 2nd tier all star who's career playoff numbers show a pattern of poor playoff performances, and not much after that. Your 100% right. Melo couldnt hold Paul George's jock, and the Pacers had a better supporting cast as well. You are right. Im not sure what I was trying to prove. So cant blame Melo for Knicks having no chance. Fair

Melo career regular season: 24.8 ppg/6.6 reb/45% fg
Melo career playoffs: 25.7 ppg/7.3 reb/41% fg

And yes, Lebron and Steph Curry's fg% dropped in the playoffs too. So I guess this is where someone digs up some advanced metrics to show Melo is horrible in the playoffs. Also interesting that nobody bothers to post Paul George's fg% numbers in that series.

I defended MElo a ton that season. He had a great year for the Knicks. I was frustrated with some of his playoff games so I dug into it at that time: http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

Melo's playoff performances when looked in a W/L context are tough to ignore

Here is what I wrote:

So I was on basketball-reference.com and went through all his playoff game logs. I kept my criteria simple. 40% Shooting.
Folks have always said Melo's had to play tough teams, the West was loaded, cant hold him accountable for not beating the Spurs and Lakers etc when nobody was... we have been through it ad nauseum
I knew this year would show it pretty clearly but other years paint the same picture when you combine them.
These last playoffs: (this was the 12 playoff games after the 54 win series)
Melo shoots +40%: Knicks are 5-1
Melo shoots -40%: Knicks are 1-5
Wow. I certainly blame JR's abysmal shooting as well, and I especially kill Chandler for gettig mowed over by Hibbert but when you look at the best player on the team hard to ignore that.
His career?
Melo shoots +40%: his teams are 15-17
Melo shoots -40%: his teams are 7-24
What is uterly shocking is that in 66 playoff games Melo has failed to shoot over 40% in 34 of them.
Melo had a monster year last year and Im hoping he picks up where he left off in that regard. But come post season something needs to give if the Knicks wants to have any chance of competing.
To me the only saving grace is defense. If we build a defensive monster we can still win regardless of this. In 2009 when Melo was playing with KMart, Nene, Billups and Dante Jones they had the formula to make it work.
Can Chandler, MWP, Shump and Felton match the defense those Denver guys were able to grind out?
Hard to see this team ever sustain a playoff run without an elite caliber defense...

We can talk about his teammates and whatever people want to bring up. Sure.. its fair to say most of Melo's playoff teams were not favored or set up to advance. Does that excuse the fact that in more than half the playoff games he's played in he's failed to shoot 40%? Sorry.. thats just poor play, especially from your lead scorer.

Yes, his skills are off the charts. With smart decision making, he could have been much more efficient in the regular season and post-season. Too many contested mid range shots.
If you want to call him a hall-of-fame scorer, then he should be able to shoot efficiently even with poor teammates. That's what hall-of-fame scorers do (KG, Lebron, Westbrook, Harden, even Kevin Love ). If you want to say he's not a hall-of-fame scorer, that's another story.

Allen Iverson?

Not the kind of player I'd want to build my team around.

Fair enough, but many would include him in the NBA top 50+10 of all time.

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

Nah. You claim that we had the pieces to win in 2012? Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. O guess that clearly proves your point thatbit was Melos fault we have underachieving here and not the talent placed around him.

But okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact

And now you will come up with why you think the likes of Smith, Felton and Tyson And cripple STAY (Who if I remember didn't playbdorst 2 or 3 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above.....GO.

sober up and come back to me. I have no clue wtf your saying dude

Knicks had DPOY, #3 in MVP, 6th man of the year, and a veteran cast of playoff proven guys like Camby, Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, etc... guy that played for small but meaningful stretches. Knicks were #2 for a reason. They were an excellent team. But yea... nice revisionist history to float your argument. Knicks were also favored in vegas. Higher seed. More wins. Your making shit up. Lets let this go... your right. Melo was superstar player and victimized but poor teammates, Phil Jackson and mean people on the internet. Go be happy dude.

Bro, think I just laughed for 5 minutes. I gave you a list of Pacers on their squad and our highest minute contributors and you bring up a DNP role call of non factors? You cant be serious. Some mentioned were injured and out of the series? But you claimed you watched. Lmao. Get some sleep Fish. We are done here.

Go Knicks!!

Why were the Knick's favored in the series? Your right... Knicks had NO chance to win. They had a 2nd tier all star who's career playoff numbers show a pattern of poor playoff performances, and not much after that. Your 100% right. Melo couldnt hold Paul George's jock, and the Pacers had a better supporting cast as well. You are right. Im not sure what I was trying to prove. So cant blame Melo for Knicks having no chance. Fair

Melo career regular season: 24.8 ppg/6.6 reb/45% fg
Melo career playoffs: 25.7 ppg/7.3 reb/41% fg

And yes, Lebron and Steph Curry's fg% dropped in the playoffs too. So I guess this is where someone digs up some advanced metrics to show Melo is horrible in the playoffs. Also interesting that nobody bothers to post Paul George's fg% numbers in that series.

I defended MElo a ton that season. He had a great year for the Knicks. I was frustrated with some of his playoff games so I dug into it at that time: http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

Melo's playoff performances when looked in a W/L context are tough to ignore

Here is what I wrote:

So I was on basketball-reference.com and went through all his playoff game logs. I kept my criteria simple. 40% Shooting.
Folks have always said Melo's had to play tough teams, the West was loaded, cant hold him accountable for not beating the Spurs and Lakers etc when nobody was... we have been through it ad nauseum
I knew this year would show it pretty clearly but other years paint the same picture when you combine them.
These last playoffs: (this was the 12 playoff games after the 54 win series)
Melo shoots +40%: Knicks are 5-1
Melo shoots -40%: Knicks are 1-5
Wow. I certainly blame JR's abysmal shooting as well, and I especially kill Chandler for gettig mowed over by Hibbert but when you look at the best player on the team hard to ignore that.
His career?
Melo shoots +40%: his teams are 15-17
Melo shoots -40%: his teams are 7-24
What is uterly shocking is that in 66 playoff games Melo has failed to shoot over 40% in 34 of them.
Melo had a monster year last year and Im hoping he picks up where he left off in that regard. But come post season something needs to give if the Knicks wants to have any chance of competing.
To me the only saving grace is defense. If we build a defensive monster we can still win regardless of this. In 2009 when Melo was playing with KMart, Nene, Billups and Dante Jones they had the formula to make it work.
Can Chandler, MWP, Shump and Felton match the defense those Denver guys were able to grind out?
Hard to see this team ever sustain a playoff run without an elite caliber defense...

We can talk about his teammates and whatever people want to bring up. Sure.. its fair to say most of Melo's playoff teams were not favored or set up to advance. Does that excuse the fact that in more than half the playoff games he's played in he's failed to shoot 40%? Sorry.. thats just poor play, especially from your lead scorer.

Yes, his skills are off the charts. With smart decision making, he could have been much more efficient in the regular season and post-season. Too many contested mid range shots.
If you want to call him a hall-of-fame scorer, then he should be able to shoot efficiently even with poor teammates. That's what hall-of-fame scorers do (KG, Lebron, Westbrook, Harden, even Kevin Love ). If you want to say he's not a hall-of-fame scorer, that's another story.

Allen Iverson?

Not the kind of player I'd want to build my team around.

Fair enough, but many would include him in the NBA top 50+10 of all time.

Iverson is similar but also a bit tricky. His apex was higher than Melo (NBA finals, MVP). Iverson also has some pretty wild stats. He led the league in minutes 7 times. He has 4 scoring titles. He's led the league in steals 3 times. He lived at the FT line. There were a couple seasons where only Shaq got there more. I always thought AI was one of the toughest dudes to play in the league. He was so tiny, got whacked every night and just kept on coming....

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

Nah. You claim that we had the pieces to win in 2012? Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. O guess that clearly proves your point thatbit was Melos fault we have underachieving here and not the talent placed around him.

But okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact

And now you will come up with why you think the likes of Smith, Felton and Tyson And cripple STAY (Who if I remember didn't playbdorst 2 or 3 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above.....GO.

sober up and come back to me. I have no clue wtf your saying dude

Knicks had DPOY, #3 in MVP, 6th man of the year, and a veteran cast of playoff proven guys like Camby, Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, etc... guy that played for small but meaningful stretches. Knicks were #2 for a reason. They were an excellent team. But yea... nice revisionist history to float your argument. Knicks were also favored in vegas. Higher seed. More wins. Your making shit up. Lets let this go... your right. Melo was superstar player and victimized but poor teammates, Phil Jackson and mean people on the internet. Go be happy dude.

Bro, think I just laughed for 5 minutes. I gave you a list of Pacers on their squad and our highest minute contributors and you bring up a DNP role call of non factors? You cant be serious. Some mentioned were injured and out of the series? But you claimed you watched. Lmao. Get some sleep Fish. We are done here.

Go Knicks!!

Why were the Knick's favored in the series? Your right... Knicks had NO chance to win. They had a 2nd tier all star who's career playoff numbers show a pattern of poor playoff performances, and not much after that. Your 100% right. Melo couldnt hold Paul George's jock, and the Pacers had a better supporting cast as well. You are right. Im not sure what I was trying to prove. So cant blame Melo for Knicks having no chance. Fair

Melo career regular season: 24.8 ppg/6.6 reb/45% fg
Melo career playoffs: 25.7 ppg/7.3 reb/41% fg

And yes, Lebron and Steph Curry's fg% dropped in the playoffs too. So I guess this is where someone digs up some advanced metrics to show Melo is horrible in the playoffs. Also interesting that nobody bothers to post Paul George's fg% numbers in that series.

I defended MElo a ton that season. He had a great year for the Knicks. I was frustrated with some of his playoff games so I dug into it at that time: http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

Melo's playoff performances when looked in a W/L context are tough to ignore

Here is what I wrote:

So I was on basketball-reference.com and went through all his playoff game logs. I kept my criteria simple. 40% Shooting.
Folks have always said Melo's had to play tough teams, the West was loaded, cant hold him accountable for not beating the Spurs and Lakers etc when nobody was... we have been through it ad nauseum
I knew this year would show it pretty clearly but other years paint the same picture when you combine them.
These last playoffs: (this was the 12 playoff games after the 54 win series)
Melo shoots +40%: Knicks are 5-1
Melo shoots -40%: Knicks are 1-5
Wow. I certainly blame JR's abysmal shooting as well, and I especially kill Chandler for gettig mowed over by Hibbert but when you look at the best player on the team hard to ignore that.
His career?
Melo shoots +40%: his teams are 15-17
Melo shoots -40%: his teams are 7-24
What is uterly shocking is that in 66 playoff games Melo has failed to shoot over 40% in 34 of them.
Melo had a monster year last year and Im hoping he picks up where he left off in that regard. But come post season something needs to give if the Knicks wants to have any chance of competing.
To me the only saving grace is defense. If we build a defensive monster we can still win regardless of this. In 2009 when Melo was playing with KMart, Nene, Billups and Dante Jones they had the formula to make it work.
Can Chandler, MWP, Shump and Felton match the defense those Denver guys were able to grind out?
Hard to see this team ever sustain a playoff run without an elite caliber defense...

We can talk about his teammates and whatever people want to bring up. Sure.. its fair to say most of Melo's playoff teams were not favored or set up to advance. Does that excuse the fact that in more than half the playoff games he's played in he's failed to shoot 40%? Sorry.. thats just poor play, especially from your lead scorer.

Yes, his skills are off the charts. With smart decision making, he could have been much more efficient in the regular season and post-season. Too many contested mid range shots.
If you want to call him a hall-of-fame scorer, then he should be able to shoot efficiently even with poor teammates. That's what hall-of-fame scorers do (KG, Lebron, Westbrook, Harden, even Kevin Love ). If you want to say he's not a hall-of-fame scorer, that's another story.

Allen Iverson?

Not the kind of player I'd want to build my team around.

Fair enough, but many would include him in the NBA top 50+10 of all time.

Iverson is similar but also a bit tricky. His apex was higher than Melo (NBA finals, MVP). Iverson also has some pretty wild stats. He led the league in minutes 7 times. He has 4 scoring titles. He's led the league in steals 3 times. He lived at the FT line. There were a couple seasons where only Shaq got there more. I always thought AI was one of the toughest dudes to play in the league. He was so tiny, got whacked every night and just kept on coming....

No doubt. I wasn't comparing Melo with AI other than pointing out that you don't have to be the most efficient scorer to be considered great.

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

Nah. You claim that we had the pieces to win in 2012? Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. O guess that clearly proves your point thatbit was Melos fault we have underachieving here and not the talent placed around him.

But okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact

And now you will come up with why you think the likes of Smith, Felton and Tyson And cripple STAY (Who if I remember didn't playbdorst 2 or 3 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above.....GO.

sober up and come back to me. I have no clue wtf your saying dude

Knicks had DPOY, #3 in MVP, 6th man of the year, and a veteran cast of playoff proven guys like Camby, Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, etc... guy that played for small but meaningful stretches. Knicks were #2 for a reason. They were an excellent team. But yea... nice revisionist history to float your argument. Knicks were also favored in vegas. Higher seed. More wins. Your making shit up. Lets let this go... your right. Melo was superstar player and victimized but poor teammates, Phil Jackson and mean people on the internet. Go be happy dude.

Bro, think I just laughed for 5 minutes. I gave you a list of Pacers on their squad and our highest minute contributors and you bring up a DNP role call of non factors? You cant be serious. Some mentioned were injured and out of the series? But you claimed you watched. Lmao. Get some sleep Fish. We are done here.

Go Knicks!!

Why were the Knick's favored in the series? Your right... Knicks had NO chance to win. They had a 2nd tier all star who's career playoff numbers show a pattern of poor playoff performances, and not much after that. Your 100% right. Melo couldnt hold Paul George's jock, and the Pacers had a better supporting cast as well. You are right. Im not sure what I was trying to prove. So cant blame Melo for Knicks having no chance. Fair

Melo career regular season: 24.8 ppg/6.6 reb/45% fg
Melo career playoffs: 25.7 ppg/7.3 reb/41% fg

And yes, Lebron and Steph Curry's fg% dropped in the playoffs too. So I guess this is where someone digs up some advanced metrics to show Melo is horrible in the playoffs. Also interesting that nobody bothers to post Paul George's fg% numbers in that series.

I defended MElo a ton that season. He had a great year for the Knicks. I was frustrated with some of his playoff games so I dug into it at that time: http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

Melo's playoff performances when looked in a W/L context are tough to ignore

Here is what I wrote:

So I was on basketball-reference.com and went through all his playoff game logs. I kept my criteria simple. 40% Shooting.
Folks have always said Melo's had to play tough teams, the West was loaded, cant hold him accountable for not beating the Spurs and Lakers etc when nobody was... we have been through it ad nauseum
I knew this year would show it pretty clearly but other years paint the same picture when you combine them.
These last playoffs: (this was the 12 playoff games after the 54 win series)
Melo shoots +40%: Knicks are 5-1
Melo shoots -40%: Knicks are 1-5
Wow. I certainly blame JR's abysmal shooting as well, and I especially kill Chandler for gettig mowed over by Hibbert but when you look at the best player on the team hard to ignore that.
His career?
Melo shoots +40%: his teams are 15-17
Melo shoots -40%: his teams are 7-24
What is uterly shocking is that in 66 playoff games Melo has failed to shoot over 40% in 34 of them.
Melo had a monster year last year and Im hoping he picks up where he left off in that regard. But come post season something needs to give if the Knicks wants to have any chance of competing.
To me the only saving grace is defense. If we build a defensive monster we can still win regardless of this. In 2009 when Melo was playing with KMart, Nene, Billups and Dante Jones they had the formula to make it work.
Can Chandler, MWP, Shump and Felton match the defense those Denver guys were able to grind out?
Hard to see this team ever sustain a playoff run without an elite caliber defense...

We can talk about his teammates and whatever people want to bring up. Sure.. its fair to say most of Melo's playoff teams were not favored or set up to advance. Does that excuse the fact that in more than half the playoff games he's played in he's failed to shoot 40%? Sorry.. thats just poor play, especially from your lead scorer.

Yes, his skills are off the charts. With smart decision making, he could have been much more efficient in the regular season and post-season. Too many contested mid range shots.
If you want to call him a hall-of-fame scorer, then he should be able to shoot efficiently even with poor teammates. That's what hall-of-fame scorers do (KG, Lebron, Westbrook, Harden, even Kevin Love ). If you want to say he's not a hall-of-fame scorer, that's another story.

Allen Iverson?

Not the kind of player I'd want to build my team around.

Fair enough, but many would include him in the NBA top 50+10 of all time.

Iverson is similar but also a bit tricky. His apex was higher than Melo (NBA finals, MVP). Iverson also has some pretty wild stats. He led the league in minutes 7 times. He has 4 scoring titles. He's led the league in steals 3 times. He lived at the FT line. There were a couple seasons where only Shaq got there more. I always thought AI was one of the toughest dudes to play in the league. He was so tiny, got whacked every night and just kept on coming....

No doubt. I wasn't comparing Melo with AI other than pointing out that you don't have to be the most efficient scorer to be consider great.

Oh I was never disputing that Melo is considered to be a great, hall-of-fame level scorer

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

Nah. You claim that we had the pieces to win in 2012? Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. O guess that clearly proves your point thatbit was Melos fault we have underachieving here and not the talent placed around him.

But okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact

And now you will come up with why you think the likes of Smith, Felton and Tyson And cripple STAY (Who if I remember didn't playbdorst 2 or 3 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above.....GO.

sober up and come back to me. I have no clue wtf your saying dude

Knicks had DPOY, #3 in MVP, 6th man of the year, and a veteran cast of playoff proven guys like Camby, Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, etc... guy that played for small but meaningful stretches. Knicks were #2 for a reason. They were an excellent team. But yea... nice revisionist history to float your argument. Knicks were also favored in vegas. Higher seed. More wins. Your making shit up. Lets let this go... your right. Melo was superstar player and victimized but poor teammates, Phil Jackson and mean people on the internet. Go be happy dude.

Bro, think I just laughed for 5 minutes. I gave you a list of Pacers on their squad and our highest minute contributors and you bring up a DNP role call of non factors? You cant be serious. Some mentioned were injured and out of the series? But you claimed you watched. Lmao. Get some sleep Fish. We are done here.

Go Knicks!!

Why were the Knick's favored in the series? Your right... Knicks had NO chance to win. They had a 2nd tier all star who's career playoff numbers show a pattern of poor playoff performances, and not much after that. Your 100% right. Melo couldnt hold Paul George's jock, and the Pacers had a better supporting cast as well. You are right. Im not sure what I was trying to prove. So cant blame Melo for Knicks having no chance. Fair

Melo career regular season: 24.8 ppg/6.6 reb/45% fg
Melo career playoffs: 25.7 ppg/7.3 reb/41% fg

And yes, Lebron and Steph Curry's fg% dropped in the playoffs too. So I guess this is where someone digs up some advanced metrics to show Melo is horrible in the playoffs. Also interesting that nobody bothers to post Paul George's fg% numbers in that series.

I defended MElo a ton that season. He had a great year for the Knicks. I was frustrated with some of his playoff games so I dug into it at that time: http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

Melo's playoff performances when looked in a W/L context are tough to ignore

Here is what I wrote:

So I was on basketball-reference.com and went through all his playoff game logs. I kept my criteria simple. 40% Shooting.
Folks have always said Melo's had to play tough teams, the West was loaded, cant hold him accountable for not beating the Spurs and Lakers etc when nobody was... we have been through it ad nauseum
I knew this year would show it pretty clearly but other years paint the same picture when you combine them.
These last playoffs: (this was the 12 playoff games after the 54 win series)
Melo shoots +40%: Knicks are 5-1
Melo shoots -40%: Knicks are 1-5
Wow. I certainly blame JR's abysmal shooting as well, and I especially kill Chandler for gettig mowed over by Hibbert but when you look at the best player on the team hard to ignore that.
His career?
Melo shoots +40%: his teams are 15-17
Melo shoots -40%: his teams are 7-24
What is uterly shocking is that in 66 playoff games Melo has failed to shoot over 40% in 34 of them.
Melo had a monster year last year and Im hoping he picks up where he left off in that regard. But come post season something needs to give if the Knicks wants to have any chance of competing.
To me the only saving grace is defense. If we build a defensive monster we can still win regardless of this. In 2009 when Melo was playing with KMart, Nene, Billups and Dante Jones they had the formula to make it work.
Can Chandler, MWP, Shump and Felton match the defense those Denver guys were able to grind out?
Hard to see this team ever sustain a playoff run without an elite caliber defense...

We can talk about his teammates and whatever people want to bring up. Sure.. its fair to say most of Melo's playoff teams were not favored or set up to advance. Does that excuse the fact that in more than half the playoff games he's played in he's failed to shoot 40%? Sorry.. thats just poor play, especially from your lead scorer.

Yes, his skills are off the charts. With smart decision making, he could have been much more efficient in the regular season and post-season. Too many contested mid range shots.
If you want to call him a hall-of-fame scorer, then he should be able to shoot efficiently even with poor teammates. That's what hall-of-fame scorers do (KG, Lebron, Westbrook, Harden, even Kevin Love ). If you want to say he's not a hall-of-fame scorer, that's another story.

Allen Iverson?

Not the kind of player I'd want to build my team around.

Fair enough, but many would include him in the NBA top 50+10 of all time.

Iverson is similar but also a bit tricky. His apex was higher than Melo (NBA finals, MVP). Iverson also has some pretty wild stats. He led the league in minutes 7 times. He has 4 scoring titles. He's led the league in steals 3 times. He lived at the FT line. There were a couple seasons where only Shaq got there more. I always thought AI was one of the toughest dudes to play in the league. He was so tiny, got whacked every night and just kept on coming....

No doubt. I wasn't comparing Melo with AI other than pointing out that you don't have to be the most efficient scorer to be consider great.

Oh I was never disputing that Melo is considered to be a great, hall-of-fame level scorer

You just maintain that he sucks at everything else. Except maybe off court charity work. Got it.

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote: Only one question that would proof your hater view is right.
Please name which years, that Melo was here, you, the all knowing Bball guru, thoight we had the right pieces in place to win a playoff series?

You asked this. I gave you the playoff series we should have won. It was during the 54 win season vs the Pacers. Knicks were #2 seed and had home court. Pacers were #3 seed.

We had the pieces to win that series, however the team did not play well. Starting with our star player, leader, alpha... whatever your posters say.

fishmike wrote:Oh.. and the Knicks had home court vs. Indiana. The Knicks were the #2 seed. They should have won. They were the better team. However we entered game 6 down 3-2.
Game 1, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 10-28
Game 3, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 6-16
Game 4, Knicks lose, Melo shoots 9-23

Im not sure how I can be more direct or simple. You asked a question. I gave you an answer backed with data. Melo has been a poor playoff performer. He was here as well. In talking about the "Melo era" as is the thread of this title, when thinking about Melo's career here those games stand out painfully. Unlike say John Starks and his painful (1-17) game, Melo lacks John's body of successful work to alleviate some of the pain that memory causes.

You hear blame. I just see poor play.

Nah. You claim that we had the pieces to win in 2012? Any other year? Cuz we were talking ERA. O guess that clearly proves your point thatbit was Melos fault we have underachieving here and not the talent placed around him.

But okay, which pieces, in 2012, were good enough to compete against West, Granger, Hibbert, Hill and Collison? Assuming PG and Melo were a wash.

So you were going to come up with ALL the years we had great pieces around Melo and you came up with 2012....fact

And now you will come up with why you think the likes of Smith, Felton and Tyson And cripple STAY (Who if I remember didn't playbdorst 2 or 3 games) were better than Pacer guys mentioned above.....GO.

sober up and come back to me. I have no clue wtf your saying dude

Knicks had DPOY, #3 in MVP, 6th man of the year, and a veteran cast of playoff proven guys like Camby, Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, etc... guy that played for small but meaningful stretches. Knicks were #2 for a reason. They were an excellent team. But yea... nice revisionist history to float your argument. Knicks were also favored in vegas. Higher seed. More wins. Your making shit up. Lets let this go... your right. Melo was superstar player and victimized but poor teammates, Phil Jackson and mean people on the internet. Go be happy dude.

Bro, think I just laughed for 5 minutes. I gave you a list of Pacers on their squad and our highest minute contributors and you bring up a DNP role call of non factors? You cant be serious. Some mentioned were injured and out of the series? But you claimed you watched. Lmao. Get some sleep Fish. We are done here.

Go Knicks!!

Why were the Knick's favored in the series? Your right... Knicks had NO chance to win. They had a 2nd tier all star who's career playoff numbers show a pattern of poor playoff performances, and not much after that. Your 100% right. Melo couldnt hold Paul George's jock, and the Pacers had a better supporting cast as well. You are right. Im not sure what I was trying to prove. So cant blame Melo for Knicks having no chance. Fair

Melo career regular season: 24.8 ppg/6.6 reb/45% fg
Melo career playoffs: 25.7 ppg/7.3 reb/41% fg

And yes, Lebron and Steph Curry's fg% dropped in the playoffs too. So I guess this is where someone digs up some advanced metrics to show Melo is horrible in the playoffs. Also interesting that nobody bothers to post Paul George's fg% numbers in that series.

I defended MElo a ton that season. He had a great year for the Knicks. I was frustrated with some of his playoff games so I dug into it at that time: http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

Melo's playoff performances when looked in a W/L context are tough to ignore

Here is what I wrote:

So I was on basketball-reference.com and went through all his playoff game logs. I kept my criteria simple. 40% Shooting.
Folks have always said Melo's had to play tough teams, the West was loaded, cant hold him accountable for not beating the Spurs and Lakers etc when nobody was... we have been through it ad nauseum
I knew this year would show it pretty clearly but other years paint the same picture when you combine them.
These last playoffs: (this was the 12 playoff games after the 54 win series)
Melo shoots +40%: Knicks are 5-1
Melo shoots -40%: Knicks are 1-5
Wow. I certainly blame JR's abysmal shooting as well, and I especially kill Chandler for gettig mowed over by Hibbert but when you look at the best player on the team hard to ignore that.
His career?
Melo shoots +40%: his teams are 15-17
Melo shoots -40%: his teams are 7-24
What is uterly shocking is that in 66 playoff games Melo has failed to shoot over 40% in 34 of them.
Melo had a monster year last year and Im hoping he picks up where he left off in that regard. But come post season something needs to give if the Knicks wants to have any chance of competing.
To me the only saving grace is defense. If we build a defensive monster we can still win regardless of this. In 2009 when Melo was playing with KMart, Nene, Billups and Dante Jones they had the formula to make it work.
Can Chandler, MWP, Shump and Felton match the defense those Denver guys were able to grind out?
Hard to see this team ever sustain a playoff run without an elite caliber defense...

We can talk about his teammates and whatever people want to bring up. Sure.. its fair to say most of Melo's playoff teams were not favored or set up to advance. Does that excuse the fact that in more than half the playoff games he's played in he's failed to shoot 40%? Sorry.. thats just poor play, especially from your lead scorer.

Yes, his skills are off the charts. With smart decision making, he could have been much more efficient in the regular season and post-season. Too many contested mid range shots.
If you want to call him a hall-of-fame scorer, then he should be able to shoot efficiently even with poor teammates. That's what hall-of-fame scorers do (KG, Lebron, Westbrook, Harden, even Kevin Love ). If you want to say he's not a hall-of-fame scorer, that's another story.

Allen Iverson?

Not the kind of player I'd want to build my team around.

Fair enough, but many would include him in the NBA top 50+10 of all time.

Iverson is similar but also a bit tricky. His apex was higher than Melo (NBA finals, MVP). Iverson also has some pretty wild stats. He led the league in minutes 7 times. He has 4 scoring titles. He's led the league in steals 3 times. He lived at the FT line. There were a couple seasons where only Shaq got there more. I always thought AI was one of the toughest dudes to play in the league. He was so tiny, got whacked every night and just kept on coming....

No doubt. I wasn't comparing Melo with AI other than pointing out that you don't have to be the most efficient scorer to be consider great.

Oh I was never disputing that Melo is considered to be a great, hall-of-fame level scorer

You just maintain that he sucks at everything else. Except maybe off court charity work. Got it.

I hope you're just joking and you forgot to insert smiley faces. Otherwise I seriously doubt your reading abilities and memory functioning.