And they are in this position 7 yrs after drafting Wall.
knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:anrst wrote:i have PTSD from seeing so many young players have their growth stunted in our organizationFields
Nate
Lee
Curry
Galloway
Shumpert
Ariza
Z Bo
Crawford
this list is silly. Also Curry grew a ton while he was here
how about you put a list together of the players we drafted(in the last 15 yrs) and develop, that went on to help us become a better team.
I would love to see that list.
especially since you said under our watch and development program, CURRY grew A tON, which sounds about right
I am pretty sure he was talking about Curry's weight.
None of these players listed had their growth stunted from coming to NY though. Only case that could be made from this list is Z Bo.
Fields was a 2nd round pick who odds were against him to even make the team. Lee developed into a border line alstar as the last pick in the first round. Nate was the same instant offense player his whole career. Galloway wasn't drafted yet came up through the Knicks G-league. Ariza was a 2nd round draft pick who was traded his sophomore season. Crawford was the same player his whole career with Bulls, Knicks, Hawks, Clippers. Shumpert has regressed in Cleveland.
Knicks mostly traded away draft picks to win now. None of these players listed were high lotto picks drafted by the Knicks with enormous talent that we failed to develop.
I was talking about Curry getting fat. Its still a silly list. Ariza was a bad loss. ZBo and Crawford? I mean that team under MDA was at least interesting.Lee, Fields and Galloway all started with the Knicks and got paid by other teams. Not sure how that shows their growth was stunted. They all were given big contracts immediately after the Knicks. One might say Knicks got them paid.
There can be ZERO DEBATE that the Knicks have been a terrible frachise in developing, drafting, really anything to do with young players. Phil signaled the start of that change. We started using the draft and focusing on younger players rather than old vets to plug holes.
Knicks have a long way to go but the last few years moves certainly point to drafting and getting younger. Continuity was not something Phil brought though... we will see with Perry
Ok, I can agree with most, but were falling into the same trap, developing players in a losing culture which forces you to trade for win now players after a while.
If frank, Dotson, and kp do well, and we start winning then were on to something special.
If we are losing, that would clearly mean they are not playing well, and it calls for change in direction, and you started trading the kids your developing for win now players, and thats always going to be the case
no matter how many times you say this it doesnt make it true. So you keep saying and I will keep calling it bull shit. The Knicks are going to lose because they are not good enough to win. Losing games does not stunt a players growth. Again.. Michael Jordan and Steph Curry had 3 losing seasons to start their NBA career. Most great high draft picks are going to teams bad enough to pick that high.
Being a bad team and getting a high draft pick is not the only way to get talented players, but it gives teams a chance to acquire the most coveted asset, young players on cost controlled deals. There is a process. Notice the Knicks have looked at a lot of undrafted young guys as well as Euro players.
A losing culture is a veteran team of guys collecting big paychecks who dont give a 100% and are losing games. Knicks have tried to move away from guys like that, bring in young guys and create a situation where minutes are earned, teammates compete and young players can grow together. That is not losing culture. Its how you build a team.
newyorknewyork wrote:And they are in this position 7 yrs after drafting Wall.
Wall is a good example. Durant's first two seasons were on teams that couldnt win 30 games. You can do this all day. 1248 reverts to whim and smoke so he can complain about everything. He wants Derrick Rose and Rajon Rondo and everyone is an idiot for not seeing these no brainer moves
fishmike wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:And they are in this position 7 yrs after drafting Wall.
Wall is a good example. Durant's first two seasons were on teams that couldnt win 30 games. You can do this all day. 1248 reverts to whim and smoke so he can complain about everything. He wants Derrick Rose and Rajon Rondo and everyone is an idiot for not seeing these no brainer moves
That's the thing, I respect everyones opinion. If you don't agree with me, that's fine, disagree and keep moving
I wasn't in favor of bringing back rose for anything more than what he got paid by Cleveland. Phil(ya boy) would have given him THJ money, and I still would have prefer rondo over any of the veteran pgs we have,
jack and sessions are so suspect, were still adding pg's like Burke(the guy your so excited about) to the roster..
But it's ok FISH you can still wear your "STEVE MILLS IS #1" Tee shirt, or your "Fredric Weis Forever" knick T shirt, nobody will call you an idiot
knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:And they are in this position 7 yrs after drafting Wall.
Wall is a good example. Durant's first two seasons were on teams that couldnt win 30 games. You can do this all day. 1248 reverts to whim and smoke so he can complain about everything. He wants Derrick Rose and Rajon Rondo and everyone is an idiot for not seeing these no brainer moves
That's the thing, I respect everyones opinion. If you don't agree with me, that's fine, disagree and keep moving
I wasn't in favor of bringing back rose for anything more than what he got paid by Cleveland. Phil(ya boy) would have given him THJ money, and I still would have prefer rondo over any of the veteran pgs we have,
jack and sessions are so suspect, were still adding pg's like Burke(the guy your so excited about) to the roster..
But it's ok FISH you can still wear your "STEVE MILLS IS #1" Tee shirt, or your "Fredric Weis Forever" knick T shirt, nobody will call you an idiot
Oh Im not pro-Mills. Whats he done? Im excited about Burke? Want to show me where I wrote that? You cant because as usual you are making stuff up.
I dont even know what your opinion is. You dont usually say anything, rather just bitch and moan about something that might be related to topic, but usually isnt.
The thing that does have me concerned is the way Jeff has explained he is going to handle the starting lineups is what will make the team look unorganized and dysfunctional. Which could lead to calls for his head.
Adjusting starting lineups based on who we are playing and not having a set rotation but constantly adjusting trying to figure out what works. If those things lead to some ugly losses then Jeff will look incompetent.
Jeff needs to take charge and sink or swim his way If he wants to up the pace and run with smaller lineups then go all in with that.
newyorknewyork wrote:The thing that does have me concerned is the way Jeff has explained he is going to handle the starting lineups is what will make the team look unorganized and dysfunctional. Which could lead to calls for his head. Adjusting starting lineups based on who we are playing and not having a set rotation but constantly adjusting trying to figure out what works. If those things lead to some ugly losses then Jeff will look incompetent.
Jeff needs to take charge and sink or swim his way If he wants to up the pace and run with smaller lineups then go all in with that.
I think he needed to do that last year. But you are right, he needs to go with the players that suit what he wants to do best and stick with it.
CrushAlot wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:The thing that does have me concerned is the way Jeff has explained he is going to handle the starting lineups is what will make the team look unorganized and dysfunctional. Which could lead to calls for his head. Adjusting starting lineups based on who we are playing and not having a set rotation but constantly adjusting trying to figure out what works. If those things lead to some ugly losses then Jeff will look incompetent.
Jeff needs to take charge and sink or swim his way If he wants to up the pace and run with smaller lineups then go all in with that.
I think he needed to do that last year. But you are right, he needs to go with the players that suit what he wants to do best and stick with it.
And he needs to learn from that and do it this year.
