Knicks · The Official Frank Ntilikina Versus DSJr Thread (page 27)
Vmart wrote:Jeff has to tell FN11 to be a little more aggressive on offense so the player guarding him has to keep close to him. It will open up better passing lanes. I wouldn’t mind Frank being a little more aggressive on the offensive end. It will help his maturation process. You can tell just by watching him that scoring will come easy to him just needs to see the ball leave his hand towards the hoop more and they will eventually start falling in for him.We just need to be patient. The same way Dallas is going to need to be patient with DSJr's defense, we'll have to do the same with aspects of Frank's offense.Frank will eventually strike that balance of scoring and passing.
CrushAlot wrote:Donovan Mitchell may turn out to be the hindsight pick.
His film stood out he just had that IT* to him. Played in one of the toughest conferences in NCAA. Played tough defense, carried the team offensively and defensively with no real talent around him to winning record. Has an NBA ready body and athleticism and strong character.
He had a lot of the things you look for in a prospect. Didn't know if he would be a PG. But under the pretense that we were going to run a certain offense that I will not name. Thought he would be a great fit. But he still might turn out to be a nice PG down the road.
CrushAlot wrote:Donovan Mitchell may turn out to be the hindsight pick.
I would only have had interest in Mitchell WITH Ntilikina, not instead of Ntilikina. The two together could've been a terror defensively and cover for some of one another'a flaws offensively.
I do wonder if the pairing could've been possible if we were willing to get the no.10 pick for Evan Turner and Allen Crabbe's bad money. The Blazers were close to having the most expensive luxury tax bill in the league for an 8th seed, so I think there would have been some chance to a deal structured like that in exchange for a Kyle O'Quinn and cap space.
NardDogNation wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Donovan Mitchell may turn out to be the hindsight pick.I would only have had interest in Mitchell WITH Ntilikina, not instead of Ntilikina. The two together could've been a terror defensively and cover for some of one another'a flaws offensively.
I do wonder if the pairing could've been possible if we were willing to get the no.10 pick for Evan Turner and Allen Crabbe's bad money. The Blazers were close to having the most expensive luxury tax bill in the league for an 8th seed, so I think there would have been some chance to a deal structured like that in exchange for a Kyle O'Quinn and cap space.
Was hoping for the same type of thing. Wouldn't have been the #10 though. That was Dallas.
Juliano wrote:Mitchell : just wow. 41 points 2 months into his rookie season, very impressive.
Not trying to knock the hustle...but Brandon Jennings had huge scoring his rookie season including a 50 put game I believe...I know they are different players...just sayin
I forget he has a 7ft wing span as well. Its very evident in the video. But you can see how his build gives him that edge his rookie yr. Every drive he is bumped and has contact. But his strong upper body allows him to easily absorb while his length allows him to finish. He has a lot of confidence in his penetration ability due to this. And his jumper always looked pure.
He is also 21 with 2 yrs of college ball. Mitchell's freshman year of college(when he was 19) he averaged 7.4pts 3.4rebs 1.7ast in 19mins and came off the bench. Frank won't turn 20 until July. Frank needs to get and feel strong. He has been playing against grown men while he hasn't fully developed himself physically. IMO It has shaped his game in terms of not feeling confident he can physically match up when penetrating.
I really hope Frank can elevate his game. Now that teams know he wont drive, its going to get even tougher, until he does.
Don't believe we can pass on drafting another PG, in the first or second round. Believe it would be foolish to put all our eggs in one basket, so to speak. You can be the biggest Frank fan, and should still be able to see, that Ntilikina might not have the temperament to have an impact on offense, like a DSJ or Mitchell. Not just scoring.
GustavBahler wrote:Its very important for Frank to come back next season more aggressive. If Frank is essentially the same player next season, too passive. Its more than likely this is the player Frank will always be in this league.I really hope Frank can elevate his game. Now that teams know he wont drive, its going to get even tougher, until he does.
Don't believe we can pass on drafting another PG, in the first or second round. Believe it would be foolish to put all our eggs in one basket, so to speak. You can be the biggest Frank fan, and should still be able to see, that Ntilikina might not have the temperament to have an impact on offense, like a DSJ or Mitchell. Not just scoring.
His aggressiveness would come from confidence. His confidence would come from feeling he can physically match up imo. There will be a time when Frank is developed physically. That is the make or break moment for him imo.
I agree about not putting eggs in one basket though, that is just good business practice in general. Travon Duval is the player to keep an eye on. But of course there could be that Donovan Mitchell that raises his stock as like a Sophomore or something.
newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Its very important for Frank to come back next season more aggressive. If Frank is essentially the same player next season, too passive. Its more than likely this is the player Frank will always be in this league.I really hope Frank can elevate his game. Now that teams know he wont drive, its going to get even tougher, until he does.
Don't believe we can pass on drafting another PG, in the first or second round. Believe it would be foolish to put all our eggs in one basket, so to speak. You can be the biggest Frank fan, and should still be able to see, that Ntilikina might not have the temperament to have an impact on offense, like a DSJ or Mitchell. Not just scoring.
His aggressiveness would come from confidence. His confidence would come from feeling he can physically match up imo. There will be a time when Frank is developed physically. That is the make or break moment for him imo.
I agree about not putting eggs in one basket though, that is just good business practice in general. Travon Duval is the player to keep an eye on. But of course there could be that Donovan Mitchell that raises his stock as like a Sophomore or something.
Thats what we're hoping, that as Frank puts on some weight, he will be less hesitant to go to the rim. What we should find out in the next couple of seasons, is if Frank has the ability to be an Alpha PG when the time calls for it. Thats part of being a starting PG in this league. That question has yet to be settled.
Still would like to see Frank play in the Drew League or Rucker. He really needs a place to try out new things, bounce ideas off of other NBA players, some elite.
It will be interesting to see what Perry does with his first Knick draft. Mentioned drafting another PG, because Frank is a lottery pick. Some may feel the starting PG job is already his. Clearly not you. I hope Frank takes stock of his game this summer, and puts in the work to come back a more complete player.
ekstarks94 wrote:Juliano wrote:Mitchell : just wow. 41 points 2 months into his rookie season, very impressive.Not trying to knock the hustle...but Brandon Jennings had huge scoring his rookie season including a 50 put game I believe...I know they are different players...just sayin
I know it doesn't guarantee he will be a hit for years to come, but it's still impressive nonetheless. If Frank had this kind of game it would send this forum into raptures.
GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Its very important for Frank to come back next season more aggressive. If Frank is essentially the same player next season, too passive. Its more than likely this is the player Frank will always be in this league.I really hope Frank can elevate his game. Now that teams know he wont drive, its going to get even tougher, until he does.
Don't believe we can pass on drafting another PG, in the first or second round. Believe it would be foolish to put all our eggs in one basket, so to speak. You can be the biggest Frank fan, and should still be able to see, that Ntilikina might not have the temperament to have an impact on offense, like a DSJ or Mitchell. Not just scoring.
His aggressiveness would come from confidence. His confidence would come from feeling he can physically match up imo. There will be a time when Frank is developed physically. That is the make or break moment for him imo.
I agree about not putting eggs in one basket though, that is just good business practice in general. Travon Duval is the player to keep an eye on. But of course there could be that Donovan Mitchell that raises his stock as like a Sophomore or something.
Thats what we're hoping, that as Frank puts on some weight, he will be less hesitant to go to the rim. What we should find out in the next couple of seasons, is if Frank has the ability to be an Alpha PG when the time calls for it. Thats part of being a starting PG in this league. That question has yet to be settled.
Still would like to see Frank play in the Drew League or Rucker. He really needs a place to try out new things, bounce ideas off of other NBA players, some elite.
It will be interesting to see what Perry does with his first Knick draft. Mentioned drafting another PG, because Frank is a lottery pick. Some may feel the starting PG job is already his. Clearly not you. I hope Frank takes stock of his game this summer, and puts in the work to come back a more complete player.
I strongly believe that him facing grown men dating back to his time in France has molded his hesitation especially since his game isn't based off of pure athletic ability. When he is no longer behind that curb of other players in terms of strength which has been the case. I expect to see a more confident and aggressive player. It may not translate into him scoring a ton but attacking and creating.
When looking at Frank the unique hope is for him to be a beast defensive player who is efficient offensively. This is why he gets the Kwahi comparisons. The level he is able to bring that to is going to be the difference between him being a starter in this league or not. But that's more so his game.
The Pacer game 4th quarter is the good flash of possibilities. Shut down penetration. Knocked down shots, kept the ball moving and found teammates. I agree that the threat of penetration will open that up for him more and make him the complete guard we want to see.
newyorknewyork wrote:NardDogNation wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Donovan Mitchell may turn out to be the hindsight pick.I would only have had interest in Mitchell WITH Ntilikina, not instead of Ntilikina. The two together could've been a terror defensively and cover for some of one another'a flaws offensively.
I do wonder if the pairing could've been possible if we were willing to get the no.10 pick for Evan Turner and Allen Crabbe's bad money. The Blazers were close to having the most expensive luxury tax bill in the league for an 8th seed, so I think there would have been some chance to a deal structured like that in exchange for a Kyle O'Quinn and cap space.
Was hoping for the same type of thing. Wouldn't have been the #10 though. That was Dallas.
Dallas had the 9th pick. Portland got the 10th pick from the Kings by trading the 15th and 20th picks. The only way we could've gotten Mitchell though would've only been if we could have leapfrogged the Jazz at 13th.
I like Mitchell but even in retrospect, that $36 million per, longterm might still have given me pause. And even at his best case scenario, I don't think he'll be better than the 3rd best player on a contender, which makes me especially concerned about cost. But as a rebuilding team, I trend towards feeling like it should've been something we pursued since there should be no reason to sign anyone to big money, anyway.
Here's a question though, if we did it, would you have taken Mitchell or Malik Monk at 10? Why?
Juliano wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:Juliano wrote:Mitchell : just wow. 41 points 2 months into his rookie season, very impressive.Not trying to knock the hustle...but Brandon Jennings had huge scoring his rookie season including a 50 put game I believe...I know they are different players...just sayin
I know it doesn't guarantee he will be a hit for years to come, but it's still impressive nonetheless. If Frank had this kind of game it would send this forum into raptures.
I wonder how New York fans would have reacted if we picked Mitchell at #8?
HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Noah and Rose were mistakes no? What do you they have to do with anything?nixluva wrote:Knickoftime wrote:I'm not jumping on the 'DSJr's damaged goods' bandwagon because he's missed a few games any more than I'm getting on the 'Ntilikina is too weak to stay on the floor' bandwagon a week into the season.Give both kids a month, a half, a rookie season.
I can agree you have to give these kids time but there’s no way the Media would be preaching patience if DSJ was a Knick! They’d be SAVAGING the Knicks for drafting a kid with an ACL that refused to provide medical info and was having swelling in that knee since Training Camp!
True. But we cant say on one hand that we need to give Frank some time before judgement and do the same thing you are claiming the press would be doing to DSJR if he was picked. Which is label him as damaged goods this early in his career. And keep in mind, we gave Noah 4 years. And we paid Rose 20M+ for one year. So to say we were smart enough to stay away from Smith due to his medical concern is hard to believe.
But think we all agree it will take some time before the real winners of this years draft are realized.
I mean if you draft a player coming off a major surgery and that injury is slowing the player there is some responsibility from the team who drafted him.
Consider what Smith's fans say about him, Hofstra you included one could easily say the only reason he was available this late in the lottery is he's an injury risk. Dallas may simply be willing to take it slow with him. Just like the Knicks may be willing to take it slow with Frank, youngest player in draft and all.
Noah and Rose were in response to the belief Knicks are discouraged by a players medical history.
Do think the injury was the ONLY thing that dropped him this low. But he is a special player and I thought was worth the risk. But I am going on the theory that Frank was picked for the Triangle. If the injury was a big red flag, I would have preffered, Mitchell, Monk or to trade down and get two later picks.
But again, its all a mute point. It will be interesting how it all turns out. We wont know for years. But I wish Smith luck and hope Frank can turn into a good player for us. Everything else is just fun to watch and see how our predictions turn out.
Mitchell was NBA ready. So far Frank reminds me of Emmanuel Mudiay. Minus the explosiveness.
newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Its very important for Frank to come back next season more aggressive. If Frank is essentially the same player next season, too passive. Its more than likely this is the player Frank will always be in this league.I really hope Frank can elevate his game. Now that teams know he wont drive, its going to get even tougher, until he does.
Don't believe we can pass on drafting another PG, in the first or second round. Believe it would be foolish to put all our eggs in one basket, so to speak. You can be the biggest Frank fan, and should still be able to see, that Ntilikina might not have the temperament to have an impact on offense, like a DSJ or Mitchell. Not just scoring.
His aggressiveness would come from confidence. His confidence would come from feeling he can physically match up imo. There will be a time when Frank is developed physically. That is the make or break moment for him imo.
I agree about not putting eggs in one basket though, that is just good business practice in general. Travon Duval is the player to keep an eye on. But of course there could be that Donovan Mitchell that raises his stock as like a Sophomore or something.
Thats what we're hoping, that as Frank puts on some weight, he will be less hesitant to go to the rim. What we should find out in the next couple of seasons, is if Frank has the ability to be an Alpha PG when the time calls for it. Thats part of being a starting PG in this league. That question has yet to be settled.
Still would like to see Frank play in the Drew League or Rucker. He really needs a place to try out new things, bounce ideas off of other NBA players, some elite.
It will be interesting to see what Perry does with his first Knick draft. Mentioned drafting another PG, because Frank is a lottery pick. Some may feel the starting PG job is already his. Clearly not you. I hope Frank takes stock of his game this summer, and puts in the work to come back a more complete player.
I strongly believe that him facing grown men dating back to his time in France has molded his hesitation especially since his game isn't based off of pure athletic ability. When he is no longer behind that curb of other players in terms of strength which has been the case. I expect to see a more confident and aggressive player. It may not translate into him scoring a ton but attacking and creating.
When looking at Frank the unique hope is for him to be a beast defensive player who is efficient offensively. This is why he gets the Kwahi comparisons. The level he is able to bring that to is going to be the difference between him being a starter in this league or not. But that's more so his game.
The Pacer game 4th quarter is the good flash of possibilities. Shut down penetration. Knocked down shots, kept the ball moving and found teammates. I agree that the threat of penetration will open that up for him more and make him the complete guard we want to see.
There is a skills gap when it comes to Frank's handle vs. other lottery picks. Don't believe he has the tools yet to create separation. Frank showed a nice stutter step in Europe. Im guessing better NBA defenders made him more hesitant to use it. Hope he goes back to it, as he gets in better shape. It can help him get to the rim, find a open spot on the floor to shoot.
My hope when Frank was drafted that he would mold his game into something like Rondo's. Another cerebral player, long wingspan. Neither with lightning speed. I would sign Rondo to the minimum (now that the team isnt a mess) just to mentor him.
Frank is a confident young man, but you're right, he might have taken a hard lick or two early on in France which made skiddish about going to the rim since then. Would make sense.
Better conditioning, a better handle, and Frank could be an impact player in this league. Hope so.
NardDogNation wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:NardDogNation wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Donovan Mitchell may turn out to be the hindsight pick.I would only have had interest in Mitchell WITH Ntilikina, not instead of Ntilikina. The two together could've been a terror defensively and cover for some of one another'a flaws offensively.
I do wonder if the pairing could've been possible if we were willing to get the no.10 pick for Evan Turner and Allen Crabbe's bad money. The Blazers were close to having the most expensive luxury tax bill in the league for an 8th seed, so I think there would have been some chance to a deal structured like that in exchange for a Kyle O'Quinn and cap space.
Was hoping for the same type of thing. Wouldn't have been the #10 though. That was Dallas.
Dallas had the 9th pick. Portland got the 10th pick from the Kings by trading the 15th and 20th picks. The only way we could've gotten Mitchell though would've only been if we could have leapfrogged the Jazz at 13th.
I like Mitchell but even in retrospect, that $36 million per longterm might still have given me pause. But as a rebuilding team, I trend towards feeling like it should've been something we did since we shouldn't have been signing anyone, anyway.
Here's a question though, if we did it, would you have taken Mitchell or Malik Monk at 10? Why?
You right my bad. I forgot to correct myself.
I was a Mitchell guy all the way. Created a thread about it asking if Mitchell was *really* lesser prospect then these other guards or something to that nature. Even wondering if we should trade down with Portland land their 3 picks. Then use 2 of them to move up and target Mitchell and still come away with another pick. Or take Turner for Portlands 3 picks at the time. Draft Frank, then use the other picks to target Mitchell. Wanted to draft Josh Hart as well and secure our back court for the future. Though Dotson is a great replacement for Hart.
As I said earlier in my reply to Crush. He jumped out on film. His pure looking jumper, his nba ready body, his athleticism, his 7ft wing span. He played for one of the toughest conferences in the NCAA. None of his teammates were NBA players. Carried his teams offensively and defensively to winning records. High character kid. The main question was could he develop into a PG. But felt that since we were going to be a Tri team that he would be a great fit as a big combo 2-way guard who can shoot.
Never was sold on Monk felt he was one dimensional, wasn't sold on Fox either but he has been better then my expectations.