Knicks · I wanna see more of Dotson and frank (page 2)

newyorker4ever wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I think Dotson will play more once CLee is traded. I really think we are flipping CLee for either a starting SF or for future picks.

I've been saying we should find a team that will trade for a combo of C.Lee and one of Willy or KOQ. We should get a nice return for Lee and one of those two.

why does everyone want to get rid of C.Lee? he's a nice veteran presence, smart, plays D and shoots well -- plus it's not like we have a ton of good SGs

Chandler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I think Dotson will play more once CLee is traded. I really think we are flipping CLee for either a starting SF or for future picks.

I've been saying we should find a team that will trade for a combo of C.Lee and one of Willy or KOQ. We should get a nice return for Lee and one of those two.

why does everyone want to get rid of C.Lee? he's a nice veteran presence, smart, plays D and shoots well -- plus it's not like we have a ton of good SGs

I think the Knicks love CLee. Is lower on the list of guys on the plank.

BRIGGS wrote:I like Frank as a prospect but he is NO starting NBA player=--does anyone believe this? D league starter yes--be realistic in expectation for the kid.

If you’re rebuilding and W/L isn’t a must you could start Frank and let him take his lumps. Letting him play behind vets is better. I don’t see a problem.

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I like Frank as a prospect but he is NO starting NBA player=--does anyone believe this? D league starter yes--be realistic in expectation for the kid.

If you’re rebuilding and W/L isn’t a must you could start Frank and let him take his lumps. Letting him play behind vets is better. I don’t see a problem.

This isnt the NFL where other people can help a young QB--hes the show at PG--exactly what game did he prove offensively he is ready for a 35 minute load? Youre trying to accelerate development of a kid who is not physically ready for it in body or game.

BRIGGS wrote:I like Frank as a prospect but he is NO starting NBA player=--does anyone believe this? D league starter yes--be realistic in expectation for the kid.

I believe it. I think it would be stupid to throw him out there for 35 minutes now, but he can run the show. If JJ falters, I'd prefer Frank starting over Sessions

I honestly believe he has already earned the respect of many opponents with his D, and that guys like Wade and Harden wish Frank was on their team

He's a good egg, and by the end of the season we'll feel like we got the best pg in this class (not counting Simmons of course but he was last year)

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I like Frank as a prospect but he is NO starting NBA player=--does anyone believe this? D league starter yes--be realistic in expectation for the kid.

If you’re rebuilding and W/L isn’t a must you could start Frank and let him take his lumps. Letting him play behind vets is better. I don’t see a problem.

This isnt the NFL where other people can help a young QB--hes the show at PG--exactly what game did he prove offensively he is ready for a 35 minute load? Youre trying to accelerate development of a kid who is not physically ready for it in body or game.

I completely agree. Frank played ~18mpg and ~35 gp last year. 35mpg over 75 games? That's insane. Not only will Frank pick up bad habits that way, he might break in the process.

I'd much rather bring him along slowly, watch how our vets prepare, and if you want him to progress, leave him in during the last 6 minutes of a game.

And to use your NFL analogy, there is a reason the David Carr bombed - and that because management was like 'Fuck it! Let's throw David Carr into the pressure cooker with no offensive line!' That's exactly what we would be doing. it is completely illogical and short-sighted to approach it that way

SupremeCommander wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I like Frank as a prospect but he is NO starting NBA player=--does anyone believe this? D league starter yes--be realistic in expectation for the kid.

If you’re rebuilding and W/L isn’t a must you could start Frank and let him take his lumps. Letting him play behind vets is better. I don’t see a problem.

This isnt the NFL where other people can help a young QB--hes the show at PG--exactly what game did he prove offensively he is ready for a 35 minute load? Youre trying to accelerate development of a kid who is not physically ready for it in body or game.

I completely agree. Frank played ~18mpg and ~35 gp last year. 35mpg over 75 games? That's insane. Not only will Frank pick up bad habits that way, he might break in the process.

I'd much rather bring him along slowly, watch how our vets prepare, and if you want him to progress, leave him in during the last 6 minutes of a game.

And to use your NFL analogy, there is a reason the David Carr bombed - and that because management was like 'Fuck it! Let's throw David Carr into the pressure cooker with no offensive line!' That's exactly what we would be doing. it is completely illogical and short-sighted to approach it that way

you can use a similar analogy for anyone leaving college

Again I'm not advocating we throw Frank out there for 35 mpg but with his more cerebral and controlled style of play it would be less of a concern than throwing out some attacking pg trying to dunk on everyone

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Chandler wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

izybx wrote:I would def like to see Dotson over Hardaway. Watching him sulk all over the court (you know, cause he's playing well and his teammates aren't) reminds me of every annoying DBag I've played ball with who acted like that. Loved what we saw from the kids today

Yes, someone needs to get into his ear and let him know that showing up his teammates is NOT a good thing to do. The play with Lee not continuing his back door cut was indicative of his reactions. Lee should have gone, for sure and Lee knows that better than anyone else. He does not need a younger, higher paid kid showing him up.

It's too bad. I hope THsr talks to him.

on espn one of the commentators mentioned how flip saunders showed John Wall videos of him sulking etc. Apparently Wall didn't realize it was so bad and corrected it

Horny should do same and tell him if he wants to be a leader he has to clean that up

agree

Cartman718 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

izybx wrote:I would def like to see Dotson over Hardaway. Watching him sulk all over the court (you know, cause he's playing well and his teammates aren't) reminds me of every annoying DBag I've played ball with who acted like that. Loved what we saw from the kids today

Yes, someone needs to get into his ear and let him know that showing up his teammates is NOT a good thing to do. The play with Lee not continuing his back door cut was indicative of his reactions. Lee should have gone, for sure and Lee knows that better than anyone else. He does not need a younger, higher paid kid showing him up.

It's too bad. I hope THsr talks to him.

on espn one of the commentators mentioned how flip saunders showed John Wall videos of him sulking etc. Apparently Wall didn't realize it was so bad and corrected it

Horny should do same and tell him if he wants to be a leader he has to clean that up

agree

Ditto

Chandler wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I like Frank as a prospect but he is NO starting NBA player=--does anyone believe this? D league starter yes--be realistic in expectation for the kid.

If you’re rebuilding and W/L isn’t a must you could start Frank and let him take his lumps. Letting him play behind vets is better. I don’t see a problem.

This isnt the NFL where other people can help a young QB--hes the show at PG--exactly what game did he prove offensively he is ready for a 35 minute load? Youre trying to accelerate development of a kid who is not physically ready for it in body or game.

I completely agree. Frank played ~18mpg and ~35 gp last year. 35mpg over 75 games? That's insane. Not only will Frank pick up bad habits that way, he might break in the process.

I'd much rather bring him along slowly, watch how our vets prepare, and if you want him to progress, leave him in during the last 6 minutes of a game.

And to use your NFL analogy, there is a reason the David Carr bombed - and that because management was like 'Fuck it! Let's throw David Carr into the pressure cooker with no offensive line!' That's exactly what we would be doing. it is completely illogical and short-sighted to approach it that way

you can use a similar analogy for anyone leaving college

Again I'm not advocating we throw Frank out there for 35 mpg but with his more cerebral and controlled style of play it would be less of a concern than throwing out some attacking pg trying to dunk on everyone

I somewhat disagree. Some guys have actually played 35mpg in college and some guys are way more physically advanced than Frank is. I think Frank has what is needed to develop. That said, what people mean when they say 'start Frank' is that they want him to play 6x the minutes he played last year against grown men. that's insane

BRIGGS wrote:I like Frank as a prospect but he is NO starting NBA player=--does anyone believe this? D league starter yes--be realistic in expectation for the kid.

He's already a starting caliber defender and passer. It's the other stuff that will take time. Still, he really isn't that far away.

SupremeCommander wrote:

Chandler wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I like Frank as a prospect but he is NO starting NBA player=--does anyone believe this? D league starter yes--be realistic in expectation for the kid.

If you’re rebuilding and W/L isn’t a must you could start Frank and let him take his lumps. Letting him play behind vets is better. I don’t see a problem.

This isnt the NFL where other people can help a young QB--hes the show at PG--exactly what game did he prove offensively he is ready for a 35 minute load? Youre trying to accelerate development of a kid who is not physically ready for it in body or game.

I completely agree. Frank played ~18mpg and ~35 gp last year. 35mpg over 75 games? That's insane. Not only will Frank pick up bad habits that way, he might break in the process.

I'd much rather bring him along slowly, watch how our vets prepare, and if you want him to progress, leave him in during the last 6 minutes of a game.

And to use your NFL analogy, there is a reason the David Carr bombed - and that because management was like 'Fuck it! Let's throw David Carr into the pressure cooker with no offensive line!' That's exactly what we would be doing. it is completely illogical and short-sighted to approach it that way

you can use a similar analogy for anyone leaving college

Again I'm not advocating we throw Frank out there for 35 mpg but with his more cerebral and controlled style of play it would be less of a concern than throwing out some attacking pg trying to dunk on everyone

I somewhat disagree. Some guys have actually played 35mpg in college and some guys are way more physically advanced than Frank is. I think Frank has what is needed to develop. That said, what people mean when they say 'start Frank' is that they want him to play 6x the minutes he played last year against grown men. that's insane

well in that regard I would agree with you. I think they are handling him exactly right now. He shouldn't be playing 35

My big disagreement is with people like Briggs who insinuate he's no where near ready because they detect some flaw in his game and thing he'd be better in the g-league.

the coaches have repeatedly said this kid is an amazing leaner -- never need to repeat a thing. Let's just be patient.

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I like Frank as a prospect but he is NO starting NBA player=--does anyone believe this? D league starter yes--be realistic in expectation for the kid.

He's already a starting caliber defender and passer. It's the other stuff that will take time. Still, he really isn't that far away.

Yeah the only thing Nitty is struggling with is personal scoring! He’s not getting beat up by opposing guards!!!

nixluva wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I like Frank as a prospect but he is NO starting NBA player=--does anyone believe this? D league starter yes--be realistic in expectation for the kid.

He's already a starting caliber defender and passer. It's the other stuff that will take time. Still, he really isn't that far away.

Yeah the only thing Nitty is struggling with is personal scoring! He’s not getting beat up by opposing guards!!!

I agree. He is very confident in his defensive abilities. His confidence in his offense is another story. He will be alright. Its harder to fix defense than offense.

Knixkik wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Dotson showed well in Summer League. He can defend, shoot and rebound. I think he will be a solid rotation player at least. His potential is even higher.

Too bad he is not 6'8", because he could be the 3 that this team needs.

At 6'6 with his length, he probably still can be a SF. But i agree, it's not ideal. We will find our SF at some point, maybe 2018 draft.

If we are going with a smaller small forward, Dotson's physical specs are not an isse.

newyorker4ever wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I think Dotson will play more once CLee is traded. I really think we are flipping CLee for either a starting SF or for future picks.

I've been saying we should find a team that will trade for a combo of C.Lee and one of Willy or KOQ. We should get a nice return for Lee and one of those two.

Still don't want to trade Willy, though.

WaltLongmire wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I think Dotson will play more once CLee is traded. I really think we are flipping CLee for either a starting SF or for future picks.

I've been saying we should find a team that will trade for a combo of C.Lee and one of Willy or KOQ. We should get a nice return for Lee and one of those two.

Best for us is a trade to a team fighting for the playoffs...Those Lee/KOQ could actually push a team over the hump, and we can still get a decent #1 in the deal, though, for me, it would have to be a 2018 pick. Not sure what the lowest non-lottery pick is, but that is what I would be hoping to pick up.

Still don't want to trade Willy, though.

I am not saying we cater to Willy, but whats on the guy's mind? What does he want? If he wants to be moved maybe we do that. Maybe it works for everyone and helps everyone.

Problem with the Knicks right now is they need time, not more players.

I like Harkless a lot.

Knixkik wrote:I see our rebuild looking like this long-term:

C Kanter
F Porzingis
F ?
G Hardaway
G Ntilikina
6th Dotson
7th Hernangomez
8th Elite backup PG
9th ?

So basically i see 6 out of 9 rotation spots filled with this current group if developed properly. Ultimately we need to find that 5th starter who is an elite 2-way SF. Off the bench, i want to add a dynamic PG who can create plays and sort of compliment what Ntilikina brings. And lastly, we will need a 9th man who is probably a lights-out shooter/scorer. Maybe McDermott can become this, but that is up in the air.

I can certainly appreciate KAnters aggression around the basket and the boards. Defensively however he’s more than a concern. With 6-10 guards (Simons)Giannis 6-11” and LONZO 6-7” flying down the lane,
You’ll need a lot more talent than Enes Kanter.

reub wrote:Dotson should replace Beasley as first SF off the bench. He's shown us glimpses that are amazing for a 2nd round rookie. Great defense, rebounding, high activity level and movement without the ball, unselfishness, plus we know he'll be a fine shooter. Eureka!

True. He has shown us glimpses that he is better than Frank