Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:All those advanced stats guys from ESPN are pretty silent now about the KP is a 5 argument?
Phil wanted him at 4. Built the team with him in mind at 4.
Mills was smart enough to follow. Perry is sharp.Love that Porzingis finally figured out that his best shot was like Pau Gasol and Dirk in the mid range and post shooting over smalls vs waiting outside and trying to be Steph Curry.
It's great to see Porzingis develop. You see his mentality. He has that Kobe Bryant type of mindset. Lives eats and breathes basketball. Injuries can stop him. Nothing else. The man is on a mission and is a killer.
Stats that I saw indicated he should stay at the 4. What was being said on ESPN? Who said it?
Not sure who said it but it was said by some on bball podcasts when the Knick roster was being criticized. Too many 5's and the 5 is KP's best position down the road was the most common take. I think KP needs to play alongside a bruiser like Kanter or Rolo to be most effective.
Hmmm. That sounds more like conjecture than a statistical argument. I like how he looks next to Kanter and KOQ too so far. I'd like at least 25 games before really judging anything though.
It wasn't a statistical argument.
OK that's not what NYK was saying above though.
KP has varied offensive and defensive advantages against different players. He’s too young and his body and game are multifactorially changing such that past performance is not a powerful indicator of where his optimum eventually lies. It seems there is an underestimation of the effect of his fronctcort partner; currently, if he plays with Kanter, he plays at 4, whereas if he played with Draymond Green, he plays 5. In a neutral scenario, I agree he seems better at 4 for now, but future projections remain contingent on his 3 point shot and rebounding trajectories. Defensively, I continue to prefer his potential at the 5 as his strength improves.
Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:All those advanced stats guys from ESPN are pretty silent now about the KP is a 5 argument?
Phil wanted him at 4. Built the team with him in mind at 4.
Mills was smart enough to follow. Perry is sharp.Love that Porzingis finally figured out that his best shot was like Pau Gasol and Dirk in the mid range and post shooting over smalls vs waiting outside and trying to be Steph Curry.
It's great to see Porzingis develop. You see his mentality. He has that Kobe Bryant type of mindset. Lives eats and breathes basketball. Injuries can stop him. Nothing else. The man is on a mission and is a killer.
Stats that I saw indicated he should stay at the 4. What was being said on ESPN? Who said it?
Not sure who said it but it was said by some on bball podcasts when the Knick roster was being criticized. Too many 5's and the 5 is KP's best position down the road was the most common take. I think KP needs to play alongside a bruiser like Kanter or Rolo to be most effective.
Hmmm. That sounds more like conjecture than a statistical argument. I like how he looks next to Kanter and KOQ too so far. I'd like at least 25 games before really judging anything though.
It wasn't a statistical argument.
OK that's not what NYK was saying above though.
KP looks to be following the Dirk path. You put a banger next to him to absorb all the contact and let KP be the Finesse player that he is. He'll have his time at the 5 but no need to force it.
Phil got attacked for suggesting to KP that he focus on getting closer to the basket and not just hoist a bunch of 3's. People took it the wrong way. Phil was right. KP can always take 3's but he needed to focus on his post game and shots near the basket. In the flow of an offense it really makes the team more efficient.
KP is punishing teams inside and it's messing up their defense. KP is up near 8 Free Throw Attempts this year. The more he plays the more Refs will give him respect on fouls. This style is perfect for KP and the Knicks cuz it's not letting teams off the hook. He's putting pressure on teams.
All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.
Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.
KAT dont play defense, thats why they are loosers
Scary thing is he can still improve. The main difference between this year and last year is he is taking 22 shots verses 15? from last year his percentage went up a bit but should be higher. Also he is finally using his length to beat guys versus last year when he was trying to use his dribble and he has to many wasted movements and crossover dribbles and stuff he doesn't have to do. He also has not mastered the post up position and when he finally masters how to get the ball in the post from within 10 feet 90% of the time WATCH OUT! Although he will thrive on ISO he still needs a little more work on shooting with the flow of the game so that he uses less ISO and that way when he does use ISO when needed the players wont have enough ISO looks to figure anything out on him. Dirks step back fader would be absolutely unstoppable if KP mastered it. KP is also doing an awesome job at altering shots by the rim.
So the keys for KP for his career are minimize unnecessary physical movements, getting more shots with the flow of the game and developing a little more of a passing game, and continuing his shot altering presence when at the rim. That will help him save energy and injuries and make for a longer career. I like him at the 4 for all the mismatches the 5 would take too much of a toll on him.
Gudris wrote:Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.
KAT dont play defense, thats why they are loosers
100% true KAT is a awful defender. KP is becoming the supior player if draft was done over KP is no doubt taken number one.
Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.
He's shooting 48.3%, with a TS% of 57.3%
Edit: Carmelo has never shot a TS% that high for a season.
codeunknown wrote:Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.
He's shooting 48.3%, with a TS% of 57.3%
Edit: Carmelo has never shot a TS% that high for a season.
I don't know where you got your number, but nba,com says his FG% is 46.8.
And his efg% is 66th in the league.
Panos wrote:codeunknown wrote:Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.
He's shooting 48.3%, with a TS% of 57.3%
Edit: Carmelo has never shot a TS% that high for a season.
I don't know where you got your number, but nba,com says his FG% is 46.8.And his efg% is 66th in the league.
Nba.com is 1 game behind, check Basketball Reference to get the correct number. Efg% is a worse metric than TS% regarding points per possession which is ultimately what we are concerned with.
codeunknown wrote:Panos wrote:codeunknown wrote:Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.
He's shooting 48.3%, with a TS% of 57.3%
Edit: Carmelo has never shot a TS% that high for a season.
I don't know where you got your number, but nba,com says his FG% is 46.8.And his efg% is 66th in the league.
Nba.com is 1 game behind, check Basketball Reference to get the correct number. Efg% is a worse metric than TS% regarding points per possession which is ultimately what we are concerned with.
True Shooting percentage. 66th in the League.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-...
Panos wrote:codeunknown wrote:Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.
He's shooting 48.3%, with a TS% of 57.3%
Edit: Carmelo has never shot a TS% that high for a season.
I don't know where you got your number, but nba,com says his FG% is 46.8.And his efg% is 66th in the league.
Do you really need stats to see what kind of player KP is now? KAT is probably getting more dunks. KP is getting most of his from Mid Range and 3pt Range!
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_i...
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_i...
nixluva wrote:Panos wrote:codeunknown wrote:Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.
He's shooting 48.3%, with a TS% of 57.3%Edit: Carmelo has never shot a TS% that high for a season.
I don't know where you got your number, but nba,com says his FG% is 46.8.
And his efg% is 66th in the league.
Do you really need stats to see what kind of player KP is now? KAT is probably getting more dunks. KP is getting most of his from Mid Range and 3pt Range!
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_i...
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_i...
Yeah, and?
KP is 7'3". He should be getting high percentage shots.
Panos wrote:codeunknown wrote:Panos wrote:codeunknown wrote:Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.
He's shooting 48.3%, with a TS% of 57.3%
Edit: Carmelo has never shot a TS% that high for a season.
I don't know where you got your number, but nba,com says his FG% is 46.8.And his efg% is 66th in the league.
Nba.com is 1 game behind, check Basketball Reference to get the correct number. Efg% is a worse metric than TS% regarding points per possession which is ultimately what we are concerned with.
True Shooting percentage. 66th in the League.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-...
Carmelo is 97. Harden is 65. This number is affected by who you play with. His efficiency has not been bad.
Panos wrote:nixluva wrote:Panos wrote:codeunknown wrote:Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.
He's shooting 48.3%, with a TS% of 57.3%Edit: Carmelo has never shot a TS% that high for a season.
I don't know where you got your number, but nba,com says his FG% is 46.8.
And his efg% is 66th in the league.
Do you really need stats to see what kind of player KP is now? KAT is probably getting more dunks. KP is getting most of his from Mid Range and 3pt Range!
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_i...
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_i...
Yeah, and?
KP is 7'3". He should be getting high percentage shots.
He's 22, he's not an interior player and he won't be a finished product for several years.
Want his fg% to go up? Give it time. It'll be very clear when he's maxed out his abilities.
That certainly isn't now.
Knickoftime wrote:Panos wrote:nixluva wrote:Panos wrote:codeunknown wrote:Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.
He's shooting 48.3%, with a TS% of 57.3%Edit: Carmelo has never shot a TS% that high for a season.
I don't know where you got your number, but nba,com says his FG% is 46.8.
And his efg% is 66th in the league.
Do you really need stats to see what kind of player KP is now? KAT is probably getting more dunks. KP is getting most of his from Mid Range and 3pt Range!
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_i...
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_i...
Yeah, and?
KP is 7'3". He should be getting high percentage shots.
He's 22, he's not an interior player and he won't be a finished product for several years.
Want his fg% to go up? Give it time. It'll be very clear when he's maxed out his abilities.
That certainly isn't now.
KP is only getting better and he’s not even fully developed physically.
Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:All those advanced stats guys from ESPN are pretty silent now about the KP is a 5 argument?
Phil wanted him at 4. Built the team with him in mind at 4.
Mills was smart enough to follow. Perry is sharp.Love that Porzingis finally figured out that his best shot was like Pau Gasol and Dirk in the mid range and post shooting over smalls vs waiting outside and trying to be Steph Curry.
It's great to see Porzingis develop. You see his mentality. He has that Kobe Bryant type of mindset. Lives eats and breathes basketball. Injuries can stop him. Nothing else. The man is on a mission and is a killer.
Stats that I saw indicated he should stay at the 4. What was being said on ESPN? Who said it?
Not sure who said it but it was said by some on bball podcasts when the Knick roster was being criticized. Too many 5's and the 5 is KP's best position down the road was the most common take. I think KP needs to play alongside a bruiser like Kanter or Rolo to be most effective.
Hmmm. That sounds more like conjecture than a statistical argument. I like how he looks next to Kanter and KOQ too so far. I'd like at least 25 games before really judging anything though.
It wasn't a statistical argument.
OK that's not what NYK was saying above though.
Last year during the media bash Phil Jackson, Knicks, Triangle tour, one of the most common themes I read was that Porzingis was a 5 and that his PER and advanced stats looked better at 5. There were a few articles on it, even. This was last year. Without his new post base and lower leg strength. There's no way anyone says that now. Longterm many thought KP should be a 5. Now? Everyone should understand why Phil, the Knicks coaching staff and KP himself viewed him as a 4. He can shoot over anyone easily at 4, and really seal in his legs. He's still not even close to his peak scoring ability. It's crazy how good a scorer he could be in another year or two.
Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.
Melo stopped the ball too often. Going back to his days in Denver, Coach Karl had a problem with him about it.
KP does the same at times, but not as often. I definitely hope KP evolves and looks to read the plays better and look for the open man. He does one thing I like vs Melo, he makes his moves quicker without holding the ball as long.
KP will often get the ball and shoot it within 2-3 seconds. KP plays much more of a play finishing game than a shot creating game vs Melo.
Melo, often held the ball way too long. Led to ball watching from teammates.
Thus far, KP does not do it as often.
When Melo played like Dad Melo, he was a top 10 player in value. He just didn't want to be that kind of player on a consistent basis.
No one said Melo shouldn't shoot the ball. It was about how long he held the ball. That's the real problem. KP is a play finisher still most of the time. The team looks for him, he either catches it and shoots it fast or makes a move fast. Cuts. Dunks. Etc. Melo had too many games and moments where the game just came down to him isolating again and again. It does not work well unless you're as dominant as Jordan, Kobe or Lebron.
nixluva wrote:
Do you really need stats to see what kind of player KP is now? KAT is probably getting more dunks. KP is getting most of his from Mid Range and 3pt Range!
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_i...
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_i...
KP is only getting better and he’s not even fully developed physically.
Wow, even more posts ups than Towns, who has one of the best post games in the league. Impressed that KP has put in as much work, as he has in the paint this season. Thought there might be some progress, but not so much, so soon. Its clear it was a focus in the offseason.
Its good having Kanter on the team to encourage him to keep building on his progress in the paint. I believe their games are benefiting from being a tandem. KP is becoming a better post player, and Kanter is becoming a better defender.
Knickoftime wrote:Panos wrote:nixluva wrote:Panos wrote:codeunknown wrote:Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.
He's shooting 48.3%, with a TS% of 57.3%Edit: Carmelo has never shot a TS% that high for a season.
I don't know where you got your number, but nba,com says his FG% is 46.8.
And his efg% is 66th in the league.
Do you really need stats to see what kind of player KP is now? KAT is probably getting more dunks. KP is getting most of his from Mid Range and 3pt Range!
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_i...
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_i...
Yeah, and?
KP is 7'3". He should be getting high percentage shots.
He's 22, he's not an interior player and he won't be a finished product for several years.
Want his fg% to go up? Give it time. It'll be very clear when he's maxed out his abilities.
That certainly isn't now.
I think this is about right. Yes.. at 7'3 he should be getting high % shots. He's clearly the #1 option right now and the guys around him seem to enjoy playing with him playing that role. He seems to only hold the ball and work 1-1 in the last 7-8 seconds of the clock when whatever plays have not worked. I am going to start watching his passing a bit more. We are just seeing what this team looks like with KP as the featured scorer and the early data is promising. Panos I agree.. his basic FG #s should be better. Do you doubt they will be? Look at his EFF% and TS% numbers year by year.. the upward trend is undeniable.
What I see early on is that KP is 100% a PF and not a center, that he can continue to be a great rim protector and he's got potential to have the best midrange game in the history of the league. I mean nobody can challenge that 12-15 foot turnaround jumper. What do you do when KP is hitting that shot at 60%? And he's getting calls?
KP wants to be the best. I think after two years in the league he's sniffing the potential is there. If I was just stronger, if I could just own this shot or that shot. I think it will come. I also think as it does this team will win a bunch of games. With Frank's defense off the bench (couldnt count on that), emergence of Jack as a stable PG who gets guys the ball (couldnt have seen that) and the duo of KOQ and Kanter up front simply being awesome (this was possible but hard to count on). Point is Knicks have some things that appear sustainable so long as we are healthy:
Good defense and role players going 100% on D (Frank, McD, KOQ, Dotson)
Bruising front line
Featured scorer who gets you buckets all game
Right now the only thing I see derailing this is KP's health, and thats a legit question mark. Is this sustainable? I like that he's been around 32 mins and not 38. That makes a diff. With our depth I would like to see KP at 30 minutes.
Sure does look like a nice step forward for this whole roster and coaching staff. Assign blame or credit till your hearts content. I am very into this team for simple basic lovely things.
Star player is 2-way and gives max effort. Check
Ball being moved and shared. Check
5Guys are going full speed on defense. Check
Coach has pulled/benched guys for not defending. Check
Ive dreamed about this for a few years. I can be patient with everything else.
