Knicks · Your Perfect Line-up around KP/Frank (page 2)

Moonangie wrote:

KnixinSix wrote:

Knixkik wrote:We know they are the future. Who are your perfect starting 5 with them included, and not just naming other star players. Players who truly compliment them. For arguments sake, no rookies, players with at least 2 all-star appearances, or players who you reasonably think will be all-stars this season.

C Kanter (i love his fit with KP and i'm riding with him)
F Porzingis
F Middleton (shooter, defender, good ball-mover, still young)
G A Bradley (elite defender who would be awesome paired with Frank, also good outside shooter)
G Ntilikina

Who are your choices to build around these 2?

Heres the problem. With the Super-teams around now, you are simply not beating them with that lineup. Do we want a team that makes the playoffs and gets ousted 1st or 2nd round each year and gets a low pick to boot? Either totally tank (and we can't with the current team it's too good) or go for the championship.

Scout effectively, add talent through draft (at whatever position we land, or trade up with assets), then grab an elite talent when we're ready to contend to put us at the ECF threshold. That's the plan and I'm sticking to it. KP is just THAT good.

I have a sneaking suspicion that we will be making more win-now moves for the foreseeable future, rather than maximizing our draft position and clearing cap space to add bad contracts from other teams that are paired with draft picks. When you look at teams like the Celtics and Sixers- two teams posed to dominate the East for the foreseeable future- I see teams that did exactly that, so that they had no less than three draft picks in every draft, many of them including multiple first rounders. We need to follow their blueprint, to build the kind of winner we'd want.

Well if I have to have Frank and KP included...

Frank
Klay
LBJ
KP
Boogie

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:We know they are the future. Who are your perfect starting 5 with them included, and not just naming other star players. Players who truly compliment them. For arguments sake, no rookies, players with at least 2 all-star appearances, or players who you reasonably think will be all-stars this season.

C Kanter (i love his fit with KP and i'm riding with him)
F Porzingis
F Middleton (shooter, defender, good ball-mover, still young)
G A Bradley (elite defender who would be awesome paired with Frank, also good outside shooter)
G Ntilikina

Who are your choices to build around these 2?

I like this.

C Clint Capella
F Porzingis
F Robert Covington
G Dotson
G Ntilikina

Capella can't shoot outside of 6' but he can rebound and play defense and is bouncier and quicker than Kanter (although I am starting to love the dude).

Covington an UFA next year but I think I read that Philly is already in works to resign him and give him a salary boost THIS YEAR cause they under the cap like mad. Dude defends, rebounds and finally worked on his shot. About to turn 27 in Dec.

And yeah Dotson is a stretch but I think Knicks hit gold here ans who is behind 2 other guys just waiting his turn. Legit SG size with a pure shot who defends and rebounds and knows team defense and who works within the offense.

I like Martin's line up

My lineup would include Enes. I like his synergy with KP, and think it's real. His D can be mitigated with more consistent and better wing defense. I think there's a lot to be said to beating small teams with size. More rebounds means more shots

Instead of Covington I want some hyper-competitive (ornery) SF who does all the little thing -- sets the tone with great/elite D, passes, brings energy, scores if you ignore him

Also anyone remotely interested in his brand is disqualified. Want players who are all about the game and winning

nyknickzingis wrote:I think we need a 3 that can do what Lance Thomas does, with a higher skill level.

Kanter
Porzingis
3
Hardaway
Ntilikina

Rest is just growing as a team, evolving and developing better understanding of how to win games.

This is assuming Frank becomes as good as we think he may be. Lots of work needed, but say he can become a 15 points, 7 assists a night point guard, I think all we really need is a wing that can do what Lance Thomas does but with a better game on offense.

I can be down with this too, though I would say a taller Marcus Smart who communicates on D like Noah (the defensive QB)

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:I think we need a 3 that can do what Lance Thomas does, with a higher skill level.

Kanter
Porzingis
3
Hardaway
Ntilikina

Rest is just growing as a team, evolving and developing better understanding of how to win games.

This is assuming Frank becomes as good as we think he may be. Lots of work needed, but say he can become a 15 points, 7 assists a night point guard, I think all we really need is a wing that can do what Lance Thomas does but with a better game on offense.

I can be down with this too, though I would say a taller Marcus Smart who communicates on D like Noah (the defensive QB)

Yeah i like this too. My ideal SF for this group would be someone similar to a younger Andre Iguodala. Can defend at a high level, athletic, secondary playmaker, and shoot well enough from 3. Not sure who that player is, but i am content building around KP, Kanter, Hardaway, and Ntilikina and keeping the search open for that player.

I don't think superteams will continue beyond the Lebron era. The cap slowing down severely hurts that concept too. I think we need to stay put for now and develop our guys. And stop trading everyone. We have one of the least consistent rosters over the last 15 years. We need to build a long standing core. Restablish not just team but franchise stability. Build an identity. A good group of guys that are friends and kill for each other. That chemistry builds over time. People are always in a rush to get everyone else's players. GTFOH with that Lebron shit. The guy just literally took a piss over the Knicks logo and declared himself King of NY we don't need more drama queens in our locker room. Let Rose and Carmelo be the last of that dying breed. We need to take advantage that we have Clarence and just draft well. I know he can get players, they don't need to be superstars. We already have a bonafide star. Just surround him with really good and really solid players and then when bad contracts expire a big FA will come to us. But don't force anything now. You won't clear money to get that guy without destroying team chemistry. I want Dotson and Frank and Willy and KP to grow together. I want to see guys like Enes and Doug stick around. And I want that dude from europe to come over. I like the idea of getting Hezonga, he is essentially a bust in Orlando but would be a great option as a backup shooter for us from the 2 and will probably cost nothing.

NardDogNation wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

KnixinSix wrote:

Knixkik wrote:We know they are the future. Who are your perfect starting 5 with them included, and not just naming other star players. Players who truly compliment them. For arguments sake, no rookies, players with at least 2 all-star appearances, or players who you reasonably think will be all-stars this season.

C Kanter (i love his fit with KP and i'm riding with him)
F Porzingis
F Middleton (shooter, defender, good ball-mover, still young)
G A Bradley (elite defender who would be awesome paired with Frank, also good outside shooter)
G Ntilikina

Who are your choices to build around these 2?

Heres the problem. With the Super-teams around now, you are simply not beating them with that lineup. Do we want a team that makes the playoffs and gets ousted 1st or 2nd round each year and gets a low pick to boot? Either totally tank (and we can't with the current team it's too good) or go for the championship.

Scout effectively, add talent through draft (at whatever position we land, or trade up with assets), then grab an elite talent when we're ready to contend to put us at the ECF threshold. That's the plan and I'm sticking to it. KP is just THAT good.

I have a sneaking suspicion that we will be making more win-now moves for the foreseeable future, rather than maximizing our draft position and clearing cap space to add bad contracts from other teams that are paired with draft picks. When you look at teams like the Celtics and Sixers- two teams posed to dominate the East for the foreseeable future- I see teams that did exactly that, so that they had no less than three draft picks in every draft, many of them including multiple first rounders. We need to follow their blueprint, to build the kind of winner we'd want.

Those teams have depth but missed on some picks. If we don't miss we will get enough talent. Thats a lot to ask though.

Knixkik wrote:

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:I think we need a 3 that can do what Lance Thomas does, with a higher skill level.

Kanter
Porzingis
3
Hardaway
Ntilikina

Rest is just growing as a team, evolving and developing better understanding of how to win games.

This is assuming Frank becomes as good as we think he may be. Lots of work needed, but say he can become a 15 points, 7 assists a night point guard, I think all we really need is a wing that can do what Lance Thomas does but with a better game on offense.

I can be down with this too, though I would say a taller Marcus Smart who communicates on D like Noah (the defensive QB)

Yeah i like this too. My ideal SF for this group would be someone similar to a younger Andre Iguodala. Can defend at a high level, athletic, secondary playmaker, and shoot well enough from 3. Not sure who that player is, but i am content building around KP, Kanter, Hardaway, and Ntilikina and keeping the search open for that player.

Well yeah that would be fantastic. I still think they need 1 more offensive player to pick up the slack if KP isn't on the court

I like Bradley but I would want a surefire penetrator next to Frank

TPercy wrote:I like Bradley but I would want a surefire penetrator next to Frank

what's wrong with THJr, as much as I was against the 71 mill payout, I have come around it. He does seem to penetrate at will in transition, and during half court sets, Frank does the same...just needs to shoot it.

This is all going on the assumption of the OP that Ntilikina is going to make the grade as starting PG, which is not assured.
Just because he is young and has that as an excuse for having an undeveloped offensive game, doesn't mean that it will come. It is still a big question mark. I'm not counting on it, I still think he's a bit slow, not great body control, and I'm not impressed with his shot. I'll be happy to be wrong.

Panos wrote:This is all going on the assumption of the OP that Ntilikina is going to make the grade as starting PG, which is not assured.
Just because he is young and has that as an excuse for having an undeveloped offensive game, doesn't mean that it will come. It is still a big question mark. I'm not counting on it, I still think he's a bit slow, not great body control, and I'm not impressed with his shot. I'll be happy to be wrong.

all those things may never happen. What if he's a 10ppg, 10assist, 42%FG, 2.5 steals, 2.5 TOs and all NBA defense on teams that go to the playoffs every year. Hows that? Is that a bust at pick 8 or did we still draft an incredibly valuable rotation guy? I think that is downside assuming he stays healthy.

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:This is all going on the assumption of the OP that Ntilikina is going to make the grade as starting PG, which is not assured.
Just because he is young and has that as an excuse for having an undeveloped offensive game, doesn't mean that it will come. It is still a big question mark. I'm not counting on it, I still think he's a bit slow, not great body control, and I'm not impressed with his shot. I'll be happy to be wrong.

all those things may never happen. What if he's a 10ppg, 10assist, 42%FG, 2.5 steals, 2.5 TOs and all NBA defense on teams that go to the playoffs every year. Hows that? Is that a bust at pick 8 or did we still draft an incredibly valuable rotation guy? I think that is downside assuming he stays healthy.

The jury is out on whether he is a bust or not. I'm talking about if he is starter material long term, or a good backup. What if he is 10/10? Sure that's good. I'm not convinced he can do that. Averaging 10 assists in the NBA is no small accomplishment. Look, I'm not trying to bust chops here. I was at the game last night, and got my first in-person view of him. And I'm not convinced that he has this tremendous court vision y'all are talking about. Many times up the court he didn't know what to do with himself or the ball and just handed it off to a big at the top of the key. He's still a deer in the headlights. Sure he's young. Sure he's a rook. It doesn't mean that he'll suddenly live up to the JKidd comparison I saw in the other thread when he's not so young.
We do this every time we draft a point guard. Start the Rook! Tony Douglas, Iman Shumpert (to a lesser degree), Jerian Grant, even Mardy F-ing Collins. Everyone extrapolating from their backup minutes that they are better than the incumbent starter. But then they get exposed when they have more minutes.

If he turns out to be as steady as Cholly Ward, I'll be satisfied at that spot.

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:This is all going on the assumption of the OP that Ntilikina is going to make the grade as starting PG, which is not assured.
Just because he is young and has that as an excuse for having an undeveloped offensive game, doesn't mean that it will come. It is still a big question mark. I'm not counting on it, I still think he's a bit slow, not great body control, and I'm not impressed with his shot. I'll be happy to be wrong.

all those things may never happen. What if he's a 10ppg, 10assist, 42%FG, 2.5 steals, 2.5 TOs and all NBA defense on teams that go to the playoffs every year. Hows that? Is that a bust at pick 8 or did we still draft an incredibly valuable rotation guy? I think that is downside assuming he stays healthy.

The jury is out on whether he is a bust or not. I'm talking about if he is starter material long term, or a good backup. What if he is 10/10? Sure that's good. I'm not convinced he can do that. Averaging 10 assists in the NBA is no small accomplishment. Look, I'm not trying to bust chops here. I was at the game last night, and got my first in-person view of him. And I'm not convinced that he has this tremendous court vision y'all are talking about. Many times up the court he didn't know what to do with himself or the ball and just handed it off to a big at the top of the key. He's still a deer in the headlights. Sure he's young. Sure he's a rook. It doesn't mean that he'll suddenly live up to the JKidd comparison I saw in the other thread when he's not so young.
We do this every time we draft a point guard. Start the Rook! Tony Douglas, Iman Shumpert (to a lesser degree), Jerian Grant, even Mardy F-ing Collins. Everyone extrapolating from their backup minutes that they are better than the incumbent starter. But then they get exposed when they have more minutes.

If he turns out to be as steady as Cholly Ward, I'll be satisfied at that spot.

He is a deer in headlights... I think thats what makes him impressive. He's still so raw and learning yet he's closing NBA games and a big part of winning them and the coach has him out there because of defense and he takes good care of the ball.

The court vision passes the eye test as a PG but no... he's not showing JKidd here, just making the pass. None of the guys you mentioned were lottery picks and I think we are dealing with a higher level of talent here. Remember before he was role player in men's pro league he was utterly dominant both scoring, playmaking and defensively against his peers.

He pushes nothing, and he's not aggressive in getting his own shot. His #1 thing is not making mistakes and thats taken him from getting his feet wet to finishing NBA games and winning.

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:This is all going on the assumption of the OP that Ntilikina is going to make the grade as starting PG, which is not assured.
Just because he is young and has that as an excuse for having an undeveloped offensive game, doesn't mean that it will come. It is still a big question mark. I'm not counting on it, I still think he's a bit slow, not great body control, and I'm not impressed with his shot. I'll be happy to be wrong.

all those things may never happen. What if he's a 10ppg, 10assist, 42%FG, 2.5 steals, 2.5 TOs and all NBA defense on teams that go to the playoffs every year. Hows that? Is that a bust at pick 8 or did we still draft an incredibly valuable rotation guy? I think that is downside assuming he stays healthy.

The jury is out on whether he is a bust or not. I'm talking about if he is starter material long term, or a good backup. What if he is 10/10? Sure that's good. I'm not convinced he can do that. Averaging 10 assists in the NBA is no small accomplishment. Look, I'm not trying to bust chops here. I was at the game last night, and got my first in-person view of him. And I'm not convinced that he has this tremendous court vision y'all are talking about. Many times up the court he didn't know what to do with himself or the ball and just handed it off to a big at the top of the key. He's still a deer in the headlights. Sure he's young. Sure he's a rook. It doesn't mean that he'll suddenly live up to the JKidd comparison I saw in the other thread when he's not so young.
We do this every time we draft a point guard. Start the Rook! Tony Douglas, Iman Shumpert (to a lesser degree), Jerian Grant, even Mardy F-ing Collins. Everyone extrapolating from their backup minutes that they are better than the incumbent starter. But then they get exposed when they have more minutes.

If he turns out to be as steady as Cholly Ward, I'll be satisfied at that spot.

He is a deer in headlights... I think thats what makes him impressive. He's still so raw and learning yet he's closing NBA games and a big part of winning them and the coach has him out there because of defense and he takes good care of the ball.

The court vision passes the eye test as a PG but no... he's not showing JKidd here, just making the pass. None of the guys you mentioned were lottery picks and I think we are dealing with a higher level of talent here. Remember before he was role player in men's pro league he was utterly dominant both scoring, playmaking and defensively against his peers.

He pushes nothing, and he's not aggressive in getting his own shot. His #1 thing is not making mistakes and thats taken him from getting his feet wet to finishing NBA games and winning.

I'll just say this, I don't know what Donovan Mitchell has done till now, but yesterday in the garden, he was ANYTHING BUT a deer in headlights. He was confident, clutch and a total handful. Not saying he's better than Frank across the board, but he looked like an athlete, an NBA player. Frank, to me, has not.

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:This is all going on the assumption of the OP that Ntilikina is going to make the grade as starting PG, which is not assured.
Just because he is young and has that as an excuse for having an undeveloped offensive game, doesn't mean that it will come. It is still a big question mark. I'm not counting on it, I still think he's a bit slow, not great body control, and I'm not impressed with his shot. I'll be happy to be wrong.

all those things may never happen. What if he's a 10ppg, 10assist, 42%FG, 2.5 steals, 2.5 TOs and all NBA defense on teams that go to the playoffs every year. Hows that? Is that a bust at pick 8 or did we still draft an incredibly valuable rotation guy? I think that is downside assuming he stays healthy.

The jury is out on whether he is a bust or not. I'm talking about if he is starter material long term, or a good backup. What if he is 10/10? Sure that's good. I'm not convinced he can do that. Averaging 10 assists in the NBA is no small accomplishment. Look, I'm not trying to bust chops here. I was at the game last night, and got my first in-person view of him. And I'm not convinced that he has this tremendous court vision y'all are talking about. Many times up the court he didn't know what to do with himself or the ball and just handed it off to a big at the top of the key. He's still a deer in the headlights. Sure he's young. Sure he's a rook. It doesn't mean that he'll suddenly live up to the JKidd comparison I saw in the other thread when he's not so young.
We do this every time we draft a point guard. Start the Rook! Tony Douglas, Iman Shumpert (to a lesser degree), Jerian Grant, even Mardy F-ing Collins. Everyone extrapolating from their backup minutes that they are better than the incumbent starter. But then they get exposed when they have more minutes.

If he turns out to be as steady as Cholly Ward, I'll be satisfied at that spot.

He is a deer in headlights... I think thats what makes him impressive. He's still so raw and learning yet he's closing NBA games and a big part of winning them and the coach has him out there because of defense and he takes good care of the ball.

The court vision passes the eye test as a PG but no... he's not showing JKidd here, just making the pass. None of the guys you mentioned were lottery picks and I think we are dealing with a higher level of talent here. Remember before he was role player in men's pro league he was utterly dominant both scoring, playmaking and defensively against his peers.

He pushes nothing, and he's not aggressive in getting his own shot. His #1 thing is not making mistakes and thats taken him from getting his feet wet to finishing NBA games and winning.

I'll just say this, I don't know what Donovan Mitchell has done till now, but yesterday in the garden, he was ANYTHING BUT a deer in headlights. He was confident, clutch and a total handful. Not saying he's better than Frank across the board, but he looked like an athlete, an NBA player. Frank, to me, has not.

They've been force-feeding Mitchell minutes out of necessity. He's had some big games. It was expected that he'd be geeked last night because he was returning to his hometown. But he's shooting 39 % overall. That offense is bare and Utah has to take what they can get from night to night. Plus, he's two years older than Frank. As for Frank, you're right lol Look at that bum in the video. Clearly doesn't belong. That guy he's guarding clearly sucks.

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:This is all going on the assumption of the OP that Ntilikina is going to make the grade as starting PG, which is not assured.
Just because he is young and has that as an excuse for having an undeveloped offensive game, doesn't mean that it will come. It is still a big question mark. I'm not counting on it, I still think he's a bit slow, not great body control, and I'm not impressed with his shot. I'll be happy to be wrong.

all those things may never happen. What if he's a 10ppg, 10assist, 42%FG, 2.5 steals, 2.5 TOs and all NBA defense on teams that go to the playoffs every year. Hows that? Is that a bust at pick 8 or did we still draft an incredibly valuable rotation guy? I think that is downside assuming he stays healthy.

The jury is out on whether he is a bust or not. I'm talking about if he is starter material long term, or a good backup. What if he is 10/10? Sure that's good. I'm not convinced he can do that. Averaging 10 assists in the NBA is no small accomplishment. Look, I'm not trying to bust chops here. I was at the game last night, and got my first in-person view of him. And I'm not convinced that he has this tremendous court vision y'all are talking about. Many times up the court he didn't know what to do with himself or the ball and just handed it off to a big at the top of the key. He's still a deer in the headlights. Sure he's young. Sure he's a rook. It doesn't mean that he'll suddenly live up to the JKidd comparison I saw in the other thread when he's not so young.
We do this every time we draft a point guard. Start the Rook! Tony Douglas, Iman Shumpert (to a lesser degree), Jerian Grant, even Mardy F-ing Collins. Everyone extrapolating from their backup minutes that they are better than the incumbent starter. But then they get exposed when they have more minutes.

If he turns out to be as steady as Cholly Ward, I'll be satisfied at that spot.

He is a deer in headlights... I think thats what makes him impressive. He's still so raw and learning yet he's closing NBA games and a big part of winning them and the coach has him out there because of defense and he takes good care of the ball.

The court vision passes the eye test as a PG but no... he's not showing JKidd here, just making the pass. None of the guys you mentioned were lottery picks and I think we are dealing with a higher level of talent here. Remember before he was role player in men's pro league he was utterly dominant both scoring, playmaking and defensively against his peers.

He pushes nothing, and he's not aggressive in getting his own shot. His #1 thing is not making mistakes and thats taken him from getting his feet wet to finishing NBA games and winning.

I'll just say this, I don't know what Donovan Mitchell has done till now, but yesterday in the garden, he was ANYTHING BUT a deer in headlights. He was confident, clutch and a total handful. Not saying he's better than Frank across the board, but he looked like an athlete, an NBA player. Frank, to me, has not.

I'm not sure what you are seeing, but Frank has absolutely looked like an NBA player. He is showing the type of defensive potential that is a game-changer for a team. Frank probably defends better than anyone else in the draft does any one particular thing. Offense will take some time, but he has a soft jump shot that will come with confidence and long strides, similar to Giannis, which makes the natural explosiveness of a Mitchell less necessary. His talent is more like a Draymond Green type athlete than a Westbrook. He will never jump off the stat sheet, but it's pretty clear he's not a bust.

Cartman718 wrote:

TPercy wrote:I like Bradley but I would want a surefire penetrator next to Frank

what's wrong with THJr, as much as I was against the 71 mill payout, I have come around it. He does seem to penetrate at will in transition, and during half court sets, Frank does the same...just needs to shoot it.

This was a dream thread. I really like thjr but he isn't the best SG penetrator out there

nyknickzingis wrote:I think we need a 3 that can do what Lance Thomas does, with a higher skill level.

Kanter
Porzingis
3
Hardaway
Ntilikina

Rest is just growing as a team, evolving and developing better understanding of how to win games.

This is assuming Frank becomes as good as we think he may be. Lots of work needed, but say he can become a 15 points, 7 assists a night point guard, I think all we really need is a wing that can do what Lance Thomas does but with a better game on offense.

What about N.Batum for the 3 spot?? He plays both sides of the ball and is good buddies with Frank so it would help Frank be more comfortable.

PG--Frank
SG--Avery Bradley
SF--N.Batum or Otto Porter
PF--KP6
C--M.Turner

All these guys have great length/wing span for defense, plenty of shooting with everyone (still waiting on Frank), serious shot blocking from KP6 and M.Turner. I'd really have no problem at all putting Timmy in the SG spot. He's really proven himself this year to be the guy we hoped he would be.

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:This is all going on the assumption of the OP that Ntilikina is going to make the grade as starting PG, which is not assured.
Just because he is young and has that as an excuse for having an undeveloped offensive game, doesn't mean that it will come. It is still a big question mark. I'm not counting on it, I still think he's a bit slow, not great body control, and I'm not impressed with his shot. I'll be happy to be wrong.

all those things may never happen. What if he's a 10ppg, 10assist, 42%FG, 2.5 steals, 2.5 TOs and all NBA defense on teams that go to the playoffs every year. Hows that? Is that a bust at pick 8 or did we still draft an incredibly valuable rotation guy? I think that is downside assuming he stays healthy.

The jury is out on whether he is a bust or not. I'm talking about if he is starter material long term, or a good backup. What if he is 10/10? Sure that's good. I'm not convinced he can do that. Averaging 10 assists in the NBA is no small accomplishment. Look, I'm not trying to bust chops here. I was at the game last night, and got my first in-person view of him. And I'm not convinced that he has this tremendous court vision y'all are talking about. Many times up the court he didn't know what to do with himself or the ball and just handed it off to a big at the top of the key. He's still a deer in the headlights. Sure he's young. Sure he's a rook. It doesn't mean that he'll suddenly live up to the JKidd comparison I saw in the other thread when he's not so young.
We do this every time we draft a point guard. Start the Rook! Tony Douglas, Iman Shumpert (to a lesser degree), Jerian Grant, even Mardy F-ing Collins. Everyone extrapolating from their backup minutes that they are better than the incumbent starter. But then they get exposed when they have more minutes.

If he turns out to be as steady as Cholly Ward, I'll be satisfied at that spot.

He is a deer in headlights... I think thats what makes him impressive. He's still so raw and learning yet he's closing NBA games and a big part of winning them and the coach has him out there because of defense and he takes good care of the ball.

The court vision passes the eye test as a PG but no... he's not showing JKidd here, just making the pass. None of the guys you mentioned were lottery picks and I think we are dealing with a higher level of talent here. Remember before he was role player in men's pro league he was utterly dominant both scoring, playmaking and defensively against his peers.

He pushes nothing, and he's not aggressive in getting his own shot. His #1 thing is not making mistakes and thats taken him from getting his feet wet to finishing NBA games and winning.

I'll just say this, I don't know what Donovan Mitchell has done till now, but yesterday in the garden, he was ANYTHING BUT a deer in headlights. He was confident, clutch and a total handful. Not saying he's better than Frank across the board, but he looked like an athlete, an NBA player. Frank, to me, has not.

But you're comparing Frank to people that have played so much more basketball then he has over in europe with the minimal minutes he was getting so i think it's easier for them to pick up where they left off and Mitchell is also getting much more playing time this year, not only in the summer league and preseason which Frank didn't play but so far in the regular season as well. Frank also isn't the quick and athletic player that Mitchell is and we already knew that coming in. We have to give Frank more time to catch up with these other rookie guards.