Knicks · Kp. Less ball time-- more success (page 1)

He did less with the ball tonight and had much more success. I almos ted posted when we were down 6-8 points later in the 4 th that even thoug we lost-- some things-- especially kp looks better

These guys-- if they watch video of the 80s celtics or 70 s Knicks ( not the shtty based offense we had in the 90s)
It's pass dribble drive shoot move without the ball

The ball is always moving looking for the best play and when the best play shows itself the player moves right into action.

It's just like the warriors -- there is very little ISO and kp took a step forward playing a little smarter tonight and he was rewarded by it-- so was the team

BRIGGS wrote:It's just like the warriors ....

It's nothing like the Warriors.

The Warriors have two guys who are legit DPOY candidates. Draymond Green can defend all five positions and defend the rim. Klay Thompson is criminally underrated. If LeBron James was not a Nike Signature athlete, Thompson would have basically locked him down for good. The both of them are like having two Deion Sanders playing cornerback for the Jets.

They have two guys who can defend the rim AND space the floor at an elite level (Green and Durant)

Curry has plus three point range, hits at a historic rate from three, and can gun teams down even when basically covered. You have to maul him and batter him to stop him. (The Refs let Cleveland do just that several times. ) This creates massive floor spacing.

If one Warrior is having a bad game from behind the arc, the other 3 guys are going to likely still bomb you out on the floor.

They can play true positionless basketball. Multiple players can do multiple roles and guard multiple positions.

They can go half court. They can kill you in transition. They can do Princeton, Four Out, SSOL, Triangle, basically any offense they want.

You'd have to go back to the Bad Boy Pistons, Bird lead Celtics, Magic's Lakers or the Drexler Trail Blazers to find a team this talent stacked.

The league has tried to cheat them out of games and often cannot. Think about that, even going FIVE ON EIGHT ( The Cavs plus the refs, thank you Nike for that happy horse sh*t) they will still run you off the floor.

The issue for the Knicks is not passing. It's POSITIONLESS BASKETBALL. Achieve that and you can destroy anyone. This is why the call to trade Frank N is so bizarre. He has the raw tool set to defend four positions. He can work on his three point shot and if he can even just squeeze out a league average rate one day, with plus defense, that's pretty lethal.

You can't defend something that keeps morphing.

Zinger touching the ball is not the issue. He can touch it all game if he wanted, AS LONG AS THE KNICKS CAN TRANSITION SEAMLESSLY WITH POSITIONLESS BASKETBALL.

BRIGGS wrote:He did less with the ball tonight and had much more success. I almos ted posted when we were down 6-8 points later in the 4 th that even thoug we lost-- some things-- especially kp looks better

These guys-- if they watch video of the 80s celtics or 70 s Knicks ( not the shtty based offense we had in the 90s)
It's pass dribble drive shoot move without the ball

The ball is always moving looking for the best play and when the best play shows itself the player moves right into action.

It's just like the warriors -- there is very little ISO and kp took a step forward playing a little smarter tonight and he was rewarded by it-- so was the team

C’mon now, you were rewarded too! Feels good. It’s like just a little bit like you helped right?

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:It's just like the warriors ....

It's nothing like the Warriors.

The Warriors have two guys who are legit DPOY candidates. Draymond Green can defend all five positions and defend the rim. Klay Thompson is criminally underrated. If LeBron James was not a Nike Signature athlete, Thompson would have basically locked him down for good. The both of them are like having two Deion Sanders playing cornerback for the Jets.

They have two guys who can defend the rim AND space the floor at an elite level (Green and Durant)

Curry has plus three point range, hits at a historic rate from three, and can gun teams down even when basically covered. You have to maul him and batter him to stop him. (The Refs let Cleveland do just that several times. ) This creates massive floor spacing.

If one Warrior is having a bad game from behind the arc, the other 3 guys are going to likely still bomb you out on the floor.

They can play true positionless basketball. Multiple players can do multiple roles and guard multiple positions.

They can go half court. They can kill you in transition. They can do Princeton, Four Out, SSOL, Triangle, basically any offense they want.

You'd have to go back to the Bad Boy Pistons, Bird lead Celtics, Magic's Lakers or the Drexler Trail Blazers to find a team this talent stacked.

The league has tried to cheat them out of games and often cannot. Think about that, even going FIVE ON EIGHT ( The Cavs plus the refs, thank you Nike for that happy horse sh*t) they will still run you off the floor.

The issue for the Knicks is not passing. It's POSITIONLESS BASKETBALL. Achieve that and you can destroy anyone. This is why the call to trade Frank N is so bizarre. He has the raw tool set to defend four positions. He can work on his three point shot and if he can even just squeeze out a league average rate one day, with plus defense, that's pretty lethal.

You can't defend something that keeps morphing.

Zinger touching the ball is not the issue. He can touch it all game if he wanted, AS LONG AS THE KNICKS CAN TRANSITION SEAMLESSLY WITH POSITIONLESS BASKETBALL.

He can touch it just don't let it stick the difference between KP and other stars is they pass the ball

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:It's just like the warriors ....

The league has tried to cheat them out of games and often cannot. Think about that, even going FIVE ON EIGHT ( The Cavs plus the refs, thank you Nike for that happy horse sh*t) they will still run you off the floor.

yeah, poor warriors... like in Christmas game when KD didn't get second T in Q1 or when he fouled LBJ in game tie attempt and didn't get a call

Yeah I agree.
Same like with Melo, KP can't get into a habit of letting the ball stick. I've seen the ability from him and the off the ball movement that I never saw from Melo. So there's hope for KP that he will be the type of star scorer you can win around unlike Melo.

nyknickzingis wrote:Yeah I agree.
Same like with Melo, KP can't get into a habit of letting the ball stick. I've seen the ability from him and the off the ball movement that I never saw from Melo. So there's hope for KP that he will be the type of star scorer you can win around unlike Melo.

KP is averaging 1.3 assists per game. With players that have played 300 minutes thats 318 players, KP is 6th in usage and 281st in assist percentage of his teams assists, no one with that kind of usage is responsible for that little of his teams assists. People complained endlessly about Melo not passing but KP is on a whole other planet than Melo in terms of ball sticking

Jmpasq wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Yeah I agree.
Same like with Melo, KP can't get into a habit of letting the ball stick. I've seen the ability from him and the off the ball movement that I never saw from Melo. So there's hope for KP that he will be the type of star scorer you can win around unlike Melo.

KP is averaging 1.3 assists per game. With players that have played 300 minutes thats 318 players, KP is 6th in usage and 281st in assist percentage of his teams assists, no one with that kind of usage is responsible for that little of his teams assists. People complained endlessly about Melo not passing but KP is on a whole other planet than Melo in terms of ball sticking

just another reason to trade him for pics!

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Yeah I agree.
Same like with Melo, KP can't get into a habit of letting the ball stick. I've seen the ability from him and the off the ball movement that I never saw from Melo. So there's hope for KP that he will be the type of star scorer you can win around unlike Melo.

KP is averaging 1.3 assists per game. With players that have played 300 minutes thats 318 players, KP is 6th in usage and 281st in assist percentage of his teams assists, no one with that kind of usage is responsible for that little of his teams assists. People complained endlessly about Melo not passing but KP is on a whole other planet than Melo in terms of ball sticking

just another reason to trade him for pics!

its to late now we missed our chance. Boston was the team but the opportunity passed us by. Kp is still a #2 guy just have to get the SF without giving up our depth

Jmpasq wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Yeah I agree.
Same like with Melo, KP can't get into a habit of letting the ball stick. I've seen the ability from him and the off the ball movement that I never saw from Melo. So there's hope for KP that he will be the type of star scorer you can win around unlike Melo.

KP is averaging 1.3 assists per game. With players that have played 300 minutes thats 318 players, KP is 6th in usage and 281st in assist percentage of his teams assists, no one with that kind of usage is responsible for that little of his teams assists. People complained endlessly about Melo not passing but KP is on a whole other planet than Melo in terms of ball sticking

Ouch.

Jmpasq wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Yeah I agree.
Same like with Melo, KP can't get into a habit of letting the ball stick. I've seen the ability from him and the off the ball movement that I never saw from Melo. So there's hope for KP that he will be the type of star scorer you can win around unlike Melo.

KP is averaging 1.3 assists per game. With players that have played 300 minutes thats 318 players, KP is 6th in usage and 281st in assist percentage of his teams assists, no one with that kind of usage is responsible for that little of his teams assists. People complained endlessly about Melo not passing but KP is on a whole other planet than Melo in terms of ball sticking

Difference is KP is not holding the ball for 6-7 seconds to make a move like Melo was. Already when he has been he has been told to not do that and he's adjusting.

Melo never really got that.

But KP needs to improve his recognition of the open man. No doubt about it.

Jmpasq wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Yeah I agree.
Same like with Melo, KP can't get into a habit of letting the ball stick. I've seen the ability from him and the off the ball movement that I never saw from Melo. So there's hope for KP that he will be the type of star scorer you can win around unlike Melo.

KP is averaging 1.3 assists per game. With players that have played 300 minutes thats 318 players, KP is 6th in usage and 281st in assist percentage of his teams assists, no one with that kind of usage is responsible for that little of his teams assists. People complained endlessly about Melo not passing but KP is on a whole other planet than Melo in terms of ball sticking

Wonder how those numbers match up against Ewing's at the same point in his career? Honestly don't know. I remember Ewing wasnt too keen on that part of his game, Don Nelson found that out the hard way. Riley had better luck with Patrick.

Im guessing KP will be more willing to improve than Ewing was, then again Ewing might have shared the rock more at the same stage. Part of it I believe involves KP getting stronger, being able to keep his balance when doubled, less prone to coughing up the ball.

Porzingis should consider talking to the great Arydas Sabonis in the offseason. Wasnt known for it in Europe, but Sabonis became one of the best passing bigs in the NBA, late in his career. Maybe Sabonis can impart some tricks of the trade to KP.

GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Yeah I agree.
Same like with Melo, KP can't get into a habit of letting the ball stick. I've seen the ability from him and the off the ball movement that I never saw from Melo. So there's hope for KP that he will be the type of star scorer you can win around unlike Melo.

KP is averaging 1.3 assists per game. With players that have played 300 minutes thats 318 players, KP is 6th in usage and 281st in assist percentage of his teams assists, no one with that kind of usage is responsible for that little of his teams assists. People complained endlessly about Melo not passing but KP is on a whole other planet than Melo in terms of ball sticking

Wonder how those numbers match up against Ewing's at the same point in his career? Honestly don't know. I remember Ewing wasnt too keen on that part of his game, Don Nelson found that out the hard way. Riley had better luck with Patrick.

Im guessing KP will be more willing to improve than Ewing was, then again Ewing might have shared the rock more at the same stage. Part of it I believe involves KP getting stronger, being able to keep his balance when doubled, less prone to coughing up the ball.

Porzingis should consider talking to the great Arydas Sabonis in the offseason. Wasnt known for it in Europe, but Sabonis became one of the best passing bigs in the NBA, late in his career. Maybe Sabonis can impart some tricks of the trade to KP.

So he can improve against his son 4 times a year? Not likely.

KP is having an amazing season. He's answered questions about maturity, leadership and is on his way to being and elite NBA player. A go to scorer who is one of the best rim protectors in the NBA. At 22 he's just scratching the surface. I think the biggest uptick in his game is on D where he's fixed so many of his issues from last year. He got a ways to go but could end up being one of the best scorers ever. As we see him establish himself as a go to scorer you can see there are just so many things he's going to get better at.

He still hasnt learned to beat the defense with the pass
He's a mediocre rebounder
He still makes some silly fouls
He's got to hit the floor less
He sets lousy picks

And I think most here would agree many if not all of these areas will improve. He's a hard worker. He's a gym rat. He's driven to win.

Knicks are 17-13 when KP plays. By comparison they were 26-40 in the 66 games he played last year.

The core of this team has a lot of upside, and this is just the start. I am bullish on Dotson and Willy as well.

Jmpasq wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Yeah I agree.
Same like with Melo, KP can't get into a habit of letting the ball stick. I've seen the ability from him and the off the ball movement that I never saw from Melo. So there's hope for KP that he will be the type of star scorer you can win around unlike Melo.

KP is averaging 1.3 assists per game. With players that have played 300 minutes thats 318 players, KP is 6th in usage and 281st in assist percentage of his teams assists, no one with that kind of usage is responsible for that little of his teams assists. People complained endlessly about Melo not passing but KP is on a whole other planet than Melo in terms of ball sticking

It doesn’t seem like Jeff has been looking to have KP focus on having the offense run through him like Hakeem or Jokic. It has to start somewhere and having designed plays that KP can work on would be nice. I don’t recall a lot of guys cutting off KP post ups but I haven’t really focused on it.

GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Yeah I agree.
Same like with Melo, KP can't get into a habit of letting the ball stick. I've seen the ability from him and the off the ball movement that I never saw from Melo. So there's hope for KP that he will be the type of star scorer you can win around unlike Melo.

KP is averaging 1.3 assists per game. With players that have played 300 minutes thats 318 players, KP is 6th in usage and 281st in assist percentage of his teams assists, no one with that kind of usage is responsible for that little of his teams assists. People complained endlessly about Melo not passing but KP is on a whole other planet than Melo in terms of ball sticking

Wonder how those numbers match up against Ewing's at the same point in his career? Honestly don't know. I remember Ewing wasnt too keen on that part of his game, Don Nelson found that out the hard way. Riley had better luck with Patrick.

Im guessing KP will be more willing to improve than Ewing was, then again Ewing might have shared the rock more at the same stage. Part of it I believe involves KP getting stronger, being able to keep his balance when doubled, less prone to coughing up the ball.

Porzingis should consider talking to the great Arydas Sabonis in the offseason. Wasnt known for it in Europe, but Sabonis became one of the best passing bigs in the NBA, late in his career. Maybe Sabonis can impart some tricks of the trade to KP.

Ewing wasn't even in NBA at 22

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Yeah I agree.
Same like with Melo, KP can't get into a habit of letting the ball stick. I've seen the ability from him and the off the ball movement that I never saw from Melo. So there's hope for KP that he will be the type of star scorer you can win around unlike Melo.

KP is averaging 1.3 assists per game. With players that have played 300 minutes thats 318 players, KP is 6th in usage and 281st in assist percentage of his teams assists, no one with that kind of usage is responsible for that little of his teams assists. People complained endlessly about Melo not passing but KP is on a whole other planet than Melo in terms of ball sticking

just another reason to trade him for pics!

Pics of who?

CrushAlot wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Yeah I agree.
Same like with Melo, KP can't get into a habit of letting the ball stick. I've seen the ability from him and the off the ball movement that I never saw from Melo. So there's hope for KP that he will be the type of star scorer you can win around unlike Melo.

KP is averaging 1.3 assists per game. With players that have played 300 minutes thats 318 players, KP is 6th in usage and 281st in assist percentage of his teams assists, no one with that kind of usage is responsible for that little of his teams assists. People complained endlessly about Melo not passing but KP is on a whole other planet than Melo in terms of ball sticking

Ouch.

um...is there a stat for hockey assist? coz he is passing the ball when double teamed, which is happening a lot and leads to open shots for the rest of our guys.

I think the Knicks are on this--less KP might equal better KP. I think Noah starting would help him greatly.

Hornacek quote from Berman's article,

We have a tendency — KP is our guy, let’s throw it to him and that’s when we’re standing around. These experiences, especially against a great team like San Antonio — they know how to do certain things.”