Knicks · Moving away from Willy at c hurt the team (page 2)
Thus KOQ earned his minutes. If he is not in our future he has been showcased and contributed.
Its a fluid situation and team will be shopping for bigs. Price matters. KOQ can opt out and if he thinks a good market he'll want to explore.
If a trade, they would want his bird rights and the expectation of resigning. There lies the rub of his value.
Willy might be best suited as back up at the 4 and spot duty at the 5.
The future is murky. Not knowing makes fans uncomfortable.
Ainge has another top 5 pick. It’s a mistake to toss Wily rather than develop him. His 36 minute numbers were very solid at 13.6 boards per game. Does he need defensive skills? Who better to learn from than Noah. We’re certainky paying him enough to tutor.
I see Boston and Phili as powerhouse Franchises yet IF Frank develops and if KP continues to improve, if we pick well, and don’t resign retreads at huge -#s, we’ll be fine.
Vmart wrote:He hasn't though and did not earn the starting or backup role. When guys are awarded roster or rotation spots based on friends/relatives it doesn't work out. Not saying Willy is Chris Smith but that was a case where a guy got a roster spot because of his brother and the team needed another nba level player(big man). Willy needs to earn his minutes like every other player on the roster.Gudris wrote:Vmart wrote:I totally agree moving away from Willie is a huge mistake.HE IS NOT NBA PLAYER, just a friend of KP, that is it
Well he is in the NBA and he made all rookie team last season. He is good enough to play on his national team. He has shown when given opportunity he produces numbers. Then I have to ask is O’Quinn an NBA player?
Kanter is awful defensively and he has tunnel vision. Just maybe KP needs his friend to play better.
Paris907 wrote:https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/1/4/16849060/celtics-lakers-picks-nba-draft-2018Ainge has another top 5 pick. It’s a mistake to toss Wily rather than develop him. His 36 minute numbers were very solid at 13.6 boards per game. Does he need defensive skills? Who better to learn from than Noah. We’re certainky paying him enough to tutor.
I see Boston and Phili as powerhouse Franchises yet IF Frank develops and if KP continues to improve, if we pick well, and don’t resign retreads at huge -#s, we’ll be fine.
Defensive rebounds are overrated bullshet
Paris907 wrote:https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/1/4/16849060/celtics-lakers-picks-nba-draft-2018I think he might end up with the Memphis pick as well but I am not positive. Whenever the Celtics get it it will be a good pick. Ainge has done an amazing job.Ainge has another top 5 pick. It’s a mistake to toss Wily rather than develop him. His 36 minute numbers were very solid at 13.6 boards per game. Does he need defensive skills? Who better to learn from than Noah. We’re certainky paying him enough to tutor.
I see Boston and Phili as powerhouse Franchises yet IF Frank develops and if KP continues to improve, if we pick well, and don’t resign retreads at huge -#s, we’ll be fine.
Finestrg wrote:I talked about this weeks ago and got very little reply. Still feel the same way -- Willy should be playing ahead of O'Quinn in the rotation. I'm just not nearly as high on O'Quinn as Jeff and the team seem to be. Willy has much better upside to me. They broke Willy down -- he has to be built back up from scratch..but it can be done. Should be done.Suppose we flipped O'Quinn (along with another minor asset or 2) to Orlando for Khem Birch and the rights to Janis Timma. Birch, at 2 years younger than KOQ, slides right into that role (and I think this guy's a better player and would have more of an impact all around) + we get the rights to Timma, who I think is a better/more versatile version of Kuzminskas (a little smaller but much more mobile -- Kuz was a 3; this dude's a swingman 2/3). Timma, if you've seen clips of him, looks good enough for the NBA right now, plus he already has a connection with KP, having both played together in Latvia. I'd bring him over from Europe immediately. AND it would open up time for Willy (where Birch is inserted here and there as need).
Kanter
KP
Willy
Khem Birch
Janis Timma as an extra wing to incorporate. Talented player.No idea if ORL would go for this or what they would want but it's hardly major assets being exchanged here. I think something like this is doable. I think it would help us, now and future. Do this and call up Trey Burke (which apparently some in the organization want to see). See where it goes. Minor moves that couldn't hurt -- could only help.
I appreciate the creativity but how would that Frontline match up against faster front lines. Think Phili or Boston. Think Boogie, Embiid, Davis Towns among others not to mention Bamba AYTON and Begley will be real. We require athleticism and fast feet as Kanter can’t atay with Most mobile bigs already
Finestrg wrote:I talked about this weeks ago and got very little reply. Still feel the same way -- Willy should be playing ahead of O'Quinn in the rotation. I'm just not nearly as high on O'Quinn as Jeff and the team seem to be. Willy has much better upside to me. They broke Willy down -- he has to be built back up from scratch..but it can be done. Should be done.Suppose we flipped O'Quinn (along with another minor asset or 2) to Orlando for Khem Birch and the rights to Janis Timma. Birch, at 2 years younger than KOQ, slides right into that role (and I think this guy's a better player and would have more of an impact all around) + we get the rights to Timma, who I think is a better/more versatile version of Kuzminskas (a little smaller but much more mobile -- Kuz was a 3; this dude's a swingman 2/3). Timma, if you've seen clips of him, looks good enough for the NBA right now, plus he already has a connection with KP, having both played together in Latvia. I'd bring him over from Europe immediately. AND it would open up time for Willy (where Birch is inserted here and there as need).
Kanter
KP
Willy
Khem Birch
Janis Timma as an extra wing to incorporate. Talented player.No idea if ORL would go for this or what they would want but it's hardly major assets being exchanged here. I think something like this is doable. I think it would help us, now and future. Do this and call up Trey Burke (which apparently some in the organization want to see). See where it goes. Minor moves that couldn't hurt -- could only help.
I looked at footage. Birch is 25, 6-8 but not an NBA starter. Timma, 6-7 is athletic and talented but again can he play defense against 3s in the league. ? If you’re not sure, it may explain why he’s not already been in the league and about to turn 26.
Gudris wrote:Paris907 wrote:https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/1/4/16849060/celtics-lakers-picks-nba-draft-2018Ainge has another top 5 pick. It’s a mistake to toss Wily rather than develop him. His 36 minute numbers were very solid at 13.6 boards per game. Does he need defensive skills? Who better to learn from than Noah. We’re certainky paying him enough to tutor.
I see Boston and Phili as powerhouse Franchises yet IF Frank develops and if KP continues to improve, if we pick well, and don’t resign retreads at huge -#s, we’ll be fine.
Defensive rebounds are overrated bullshet
Tell that to Knick Managment when KP is your top rebounder at 6.5 per game.
BRIGGS wrote:The Carmelo trade right now looks like a complete team disaster. It took us away from developing the team w Willy at center. We added kanter and McDermott -- slotted them into core positions and today--- right now where has it gotten us? Right. -- it got us a few more wins and train wrecked the direction. It's a rudderless team that has no style of play
They should have pulled the trigger on the bledsoe deal, the kid played very well in JH's system, and is the right pg to run it. He also could score, penetrate and draws way more attn then frank and jack. Then traded his ass for a pick come draft time if it didn't work.
nykshaknbake wrote:Willy had every opportunity to show he could contribute. He plain stinks right now. What direction were we going that could get train wrecked?
Willy has had NO opportunity to show that he can contribute.
Zebo13 wrote:Willy’s Tiny hands will never allow him to be a starting NBA player.
Willy for Prez!
reub wrote:Not what the coach said.nykshaknbake wrote:Willy had every opportunity to show he could contribute. He plain stinks right now. What direction were we going that could get train wrecked?Willy has had NO opportunity to show that he can contribute.
“That was all before the trade for Enes Kanter. And they’ve always said, ‘Play the guys who earned it,’” Hornacek said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basket...
CrushAlot wrote:reub wrote:Not what the coach said.nykshaknbake wrote:Willy had every opportunity to show he could contribute. He plain stinks right now. What direction were we going that could get train wrecked?Willy has had NO opportunity to show that he can contribute.
“That was all before the trade for Enes Kanter. And they’ve always said, ‘Play the guys who earned it,’” Hornacek said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basket...
I don't buy what Jeff says in the media
Last year he was all for Triangle because his boss was
This year he isn't because his new bosses aren't
Basically what I've seen if what you quoted is true there is no way in hell Noah is not a regular 15 to 20 Minutes guy on our team. He is exactly what we tried to emphasize at camp. Roll to the basket hard set good screens play défense board etc
Willy I get doesn't do all those things as well as Quinn but Noah? A healthy Noah which we have seen so far this year is one of the best backups in the league and Jeff has barely played him.
Strictly from a defensive standpoint imagine coming in with Noah for Kanter at 5 then Frank for Jack at 1. It has made zero sense to me that if it was based on how they played in terms of their energy screen and rolling etc how Noah barely sees any action.
nyknickzingis wrote:CrushAlot wrote:reub wrote:Not what the coach said.nykshaknbake wrote:Willy had every opportunity to show he could contribute. He plain stinks right now. What direction were we going that could get train wrecked?Willy has had NO opportunity to show that he can contribute.
“That was all before the trade for Enes Kanter. And they’ve always said, ‘Play the guys who earned it,’” Hornacek said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basket...I don't buy what Jeff says in the media
Last year he was all for Triangle because his boss was
This year he isn't because his new bosses aren'tBasically what I've seen if what you quoted is true there is no way in hell Noah is not a regular 15 to 20 Minutes guy on our team. He is exactly what we tried to emphasize at camp. Roll to the basket hard set good screens play défense board etc
Willy I get doesn't do all those things as well as Quinn but Noah? A healthy Noah which we have seen so far this year is one of the best backups in the league and Jeff has barely played him.
Strictly from a defensive standpoint imagine coming in with Noah for Kanter at 5 then Frank for Jack at 1. It has made zero sense to me that if it was based on how they played in terms of their energy screen and rolling etc how Noah barely sees any action.
From a long term perspective though, could you really mark Noah for minutes? He probably was only rounding into playing shape during training camp and preseason and JH knew he wouldn't be able to play for the first month. You need to plan and play around Kanter, KOQ and Willy to begin and obviously Kanter/KOQ won those jobs.
Through mid December the Knicks were 16-13. As a coach, why would you change anything about that? That is exceeding expectations by a lot. Home court advantage but still playing at a very high level.
Why would you randomly throw Noah into that mix until Kanter/KOQ really falter?
Also, Noah aint going nowhere, you want to pump up Kanter/KOQ value IF you think you could move them for better pieces.
martin wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:CrushAlot wrote:reub wrote:Not what the coach said.nykshaknbake wrote:Willy had every opportunity to show he could contribute. He plain stinks right now. What direction were we going that could get train wrecked?Willy has had NO opportunity to show that he can contribute.
“That was all before the trade for Enes Kanter. And they’ve always said, ‘Play the guys who earned it,’” Hornacek said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basket...I don't buy what Jeff says in the media
Last year he was all for Triangle because his boss was
This year he isn't because his new bosses aren'tBasically what I've seen if what you quoted is true there is no way in hell Noah is not a regular 15 to 20 Minutes guy on our team. He is exactly what we tried to emphasize at camp. Roll to the basket hard set good screens play défense board etc
Willy I get doesn't do all those things as well as Quinn but Noah? A healthy Noah which we have seen so far this year is one of the best backups in the league and Jeff has barely played him.
Strictly from a defensive standpoint imagine coming in with Noah for Kanter at 5 then Frank for Jack at 1. It has made zero sense to me that if it was based on how they played in terms of their energy screen and rolling etc how Noah barely sees any action.
From a long term perspective though, could you really mark Noah for minutes? He probably was only rounding into playing shape during training camp and preseason and JH knew he wouldn't be able to play for the first month. You need to plan and play around Kanter, KOQ and Willy to begin and obviously Kanter/KOQ won those jobs.
Through mid December the Knicks were 16-13. As a coach, why would you change anything about that? That is exceeding expectations by a lot. Home court advantage but still playing at a very high level.
Why would you randomly throw Noah into that mix until Kanter/KOQ really falter?
Also, Noah aint going nowhere, you want to pump up Kanter/KOQ value IF you think you could move them for better pieces.
Too logical. Your not ranting and how can you make a good rant without the benefit of hindsight?
Nalod wrote:Yeah. Great post Martin. It just needs a throwback to Jim Buss.martin wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:CrushAlot wrote:reub wrote:Not what the coach said.nykshaknbake wrote:Willy had every opportunity to show he could contribute. He plain stinks right now. What direction were we going that could get train wrecked?Willy has had NO opportunity to show that he can contribute.
“That was all before the trade for Enes Kanter. And they’ve always said, ‘Play the guys who earned it,’” Hornacek said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basket...I don't buy what Jeff says in the media
Last year he was all for Triangle because his boss was
This year he isn't because his new bosses aren'tBasically what I've seen if what you quoted is true there is no way in hell Noah is not a regular 15 to 20 Minutes guy on our team. He is exactly what we tried to emphasize at camp. Roll to the basket hard set good screens play défense board etc
Willy I get doesn't do all those things as well as Quinn but Noah? A healthy Noah which we have seen so far this year is one of the best backups in the league and Jeff has barely played him.
Strictly from a defensive standpoint imagine coming in with Noah for Kanter at 5 then Frank for Jack at 1. It has made zero sense to me that if it was based on how they played in terms of their energy screen and rolling etc how Noah barely sees any action.
From a long term perspective though, could you really mark Noah for minutes? He probably was only rounding into playing shape during training camp and preseason and JH knew he wouldn't be able to play for the first month. You need to plan and play around Kanter, KOQ and Willy to begin and obviously Kanter/KOQ won those jobs.
Through mid December the Knicks were 16-13. As a coach, why would you change anything about that? That is exceeding expectations by a lot. Home court advantage but still playing at a very high level.
Why would you randomly throw Noah into that mix until Kanter/KOQ really falter?
Also, Noah aint going nowhere, you want to pump up Kanter/KOQ value IF you think you could move them for better pieces.
Too logical. Your not ranting and how can you make a good rant without the benefit of hindsight?
meloshouldgo wrote:Zebo13 wrote:Willy’s Tiny hands will never allow him to be a starting NBA player.Willy for Prez!
Free Willy!
BRIGGS wrote:What skill does Willy not have here? We spent 2 2s on him and hes a 1st team rookie team.
why do you keep saying this? since when does that matter? landry fields was 1st team all rookie too... clearly that doesn't mean jack shit.
Paris907 wrote:Finestrg wrote:I talked about this weeks ago and got very little reply. Still feel the same way -- Willy should be playing ahead of O'Quinn in the rotation. I'm just not nearly as high on O'Quinn as Jeff and the team seem to be. Willy has much better upside to me. They broke Willy down -- he has to be built back up from scratch..but it can be done. Should be done.Suppose we flipped O'Quinn (along with another minor asset or 2) to Orlando for Khem Birch and the rights to Janis Timma. Birch, at 2 years younger than KOQ, slides right into that role (and I think this guy's a better player and would have more of an impact all around) + we get the rights to Timma, who I think is a better/more versatile version of Kuzminskas (a little smaller but much more mobile -- Kuz was a 3; this dude's a swingman 2/3). Timma, if you've seen clips of him, looks good enough for the NBA right now, plus he already has a connection with KP, having both played together in Latvia. I'd bring him over from Europe immediately. AND it would open up time for Willy (where Birch is inserted here and there as need).
Kanter
KP
Willy
Khem Birch
Janis Timma as an extra wing to incorporate. Talented player.No idea if ORL would go for this or what they would want but it's hardly major assets being exchanged here. I think something like this is doable. I think it would help us, now and future. Do this and call up Trey Burke (which apparently some in the organization want to see). See where it goes. Minor moves that couldn't hurt -- could only help.
I looked at footage. Birch is 25, 6-8 but not an NBA starter. Timma, 6-7 is athletic and talented but again can he play defense against 3s in the league. ? If you’re not sure, it may explain why he’s not already been in the league and about to turn 26.
Paris, why look at something like this glass half empty?? I'm going glass half full here all the way. Again, I'm not talking about trading for Russell Westbrook here -- I'm looking to add a couple of minor components to the mix, what I believe to be improvements at a couple of positions and add elements that we simply DO NOT HAVE and COULD DEFINITELY USE:
• More speed/offensive punch at the point. Burke supplies that.
• Someone who looks to be an even better rim protector than O'Quinn in Khem Birch (looks better in other areas as well--more athletic, I think he'd give us more in the post, etc.). Mike Schmitz's take on Birch over at Draftexpress as recently as last May: "Udoh isn't the only big to play in the Euroleague Final Four who fits this mold, as Olympiacos' Khem Birch could very well find himself back in the NBA soon as well. Although not quite as long as Udoh (7' 1 wingspan), Birch, still only 24 years old, has outstanding feet and impressive instincts as a shot blocker. Olympiacos used him as a switch man with great success in Istanbul, and his ability to also rim protect and rebound make him a great fit in today's NBA as a bench big. Although not quite the passer of Udoh, Birch is a vertical spacer/lob catcher who still has some upside to grow into. The former UNLV product always had NBA intrigue but his laid back mentality (which he's reportedly improved by leaps and bounds) is what held him back. He'll likely garner big Euroleague offers this summer, but an NBA team may be wise to bring him in before his price tag escalates even more over the next few years." -- I agree wholeheartedly with this assessment, and since then all he's been doing is more of the same in the G-league: 13.8 ppg/60.5% FGs/10.1 rpg/2.6 blocks. 2 years younger than O'Quinn and he's more like 6'9"+/220+ with a 7' wingspan btw.
• A very talented, seemingly NBA-ready swingman (that KP knows firsthand). If I were a betting man, based on video I've seen of Timma, I'd bet a good deal of money that this dude turns into a better player than Kuzminskas, and rather quickly too. Could really help us if we don't get Timmy back soon like we all hope. I think he could help us even with Timmy back -- let's bring him here and see if he outplays Doug M. and earns time.
• As well as incorporating Willy and his youth/size/rebounding/post play back into the fold.
None of these moves are major -- they're all relatively minor, yet together they all could be exactly what the doctor ordered. Remember what adding Lin did for us (and eventually JR Smith when he first got here) -- no one could've seen that type of impact coming. And the beauty of these moves: (a) they're all very doable and (b) we can turn the page quickly if they didn't work out. But what if they did? No skin off our back to try and find out.. They appear to be close to pulling the trigger on a Trey Burke call up -- that's good. Why the hell not? Jack sucks. So does Sessions.. I say double down now and investigate bringing in two other minor components as well if possible and see where it goes. Absolutely no skin off our back at all trying out a minor shakeup like this imo. I think it could galvanize us big-time.