Knicks · Kemba Walker on the block? Maybe Kidd-gilcrest and Batum (page 3)

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:I love Kemba Walker, but I have a feeling he's one of those guys you love because you only pay attention to him a few times a year. Probably a little different seeing him over 82 games.

Isn't this true about any player?
Fortunately teams have personal to see the whole body of work not just highlights.
There are a lot of players in NBA who will improve Knicks but we do not have anything to get them and anything that they will like to join yet.
WE need to first build the house and only then invite the inhabitants.

True. If prime Michael Jordan were here somebody would complain about him dominating the ball too much.

I call shenanigans on the starphuch accusations, double shenanigans. This term used to apply to players brought in mostly to fill seats, whose value to the team did not match the paycheck for a variety of reasons, including health, and overall attitude.

Walker does not fit any of those descriptions as far as I can tell. Perry weighing going after one of the better starting PGs in his prime, to pair with a big man on the verge of stardom, is a wise move.

The question is do you want to wait (maybe years) to find out if Frank has an offense when a top flight starting PG is avaiable on a reasonable contract? Dont believe its so cut and dry. Definitely don't believe its a Starphuch

GustavBahler wrote:I call shenanigans on the starphuch accusations, double shenanigans. This term used to apply to players brought in mostly to fill seats, whose value to the team did not match the paycheck for a variety of reasons, including health, and overall attitude.

Walker does not fit any of those descriptions as far as I can tell. Perry weighing going after one of the better starting PGs in his prime, to pair with a big man on the verge of stardom, is a wise move.

The question is do you want to wait (maybe years) to find out if Frank has an offense when a top flight starting PG is avaiable on a reasonable contract? Dont believe its so cut and dry. Definitely don't believe its a Starphuch

How top flight is Kemba really? Does he crack this top 8? I dont see that...

Kyrie
Wall
Westbrook
Curry
CP3
Lilliard
Lowry
Conley

next tier

Dragic
Kemba
Rubio
Bledsoe
JRue
George Hill
Beverly

Kemba is a really good player, but top flight? I dont see Kemba outplaying too many of those guys over a 7 game series and if he cant then Im waiting.

fishmike wrote:

wargames wrote:Anyone who wants to trade Frank for Kemba is just being a short sighted Knights fan

agree. And its not just about what Frank can or cant be. A core of Kemba/KP/THjr/Kanter is a playoff team for sure. I have no doubt we get it. To what end? Do folks think KP's upside is such that his growth with have us in the ECF a few years in a row?

I just dont see that. Year after next we have to give Kemba big money for a few years to a guy who while clutch and a good player does little else but score.

Do this right.... keep building the core, stay flexible and focus on building from with in.

We have seen many guys on the roster get better this year:
KP heading to the AS game
Frank can defend against elite NBA talent at 19. Already a rotation guy.
McD better defense than advertised
Kanter better defense than advertised
Lee posting career #s
THjr posting career #s AND playing good defense

The goal at the deadline should be to add a few picks or players that have long term potential here and/or acquire assets while elevating Dotson/Willy in the rotation.

Get some picks or a prospect for KOQ/Lee/Beas whoever... and push the other guys up.

I would be fine staying the course had we stayed flexible but the Knicks aren't flexible at all, big contracts all over the roster

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Frank tomorrow is not what Frank is today. 40 games in and fans are losing patience.
Kemba is under 6 foot and what happens when small guys lose that explosive step?

Think why Jordan wants to trade these guys? He knows that core is going nowhere. What if you added KP to the Hornets? Would that change the whole franchise?

Frank and KP are hitting a wall because of THjr’s injury.
Making trades based on todays shortfall are not bad ideas but the long view is what most important.
Hornets have failed with Zeller who is not progressing as thought. Dwight is a disaster anywhere he goes. I have seen Hornets in person more than knicks and he plays for his pay.
Kemba when hot is awesome. His future is off the bench as a “Microwave”. I’m not knocking his talent, just his fit in our future.

Giving up on Frank after 40 games at age 19 when he is obviously struggling it’s his shot and thinking this is his whole career is shortsightingly ignorant. This is what rebuilding is like, its uneven, frustrating and requires patience. Need some imagination. No guarantees. If you want that you end up with mediocrity.

This will always be the common theme here, losing patience. I mean there were people losing patience with Porzingis last year and ready to trade him at age 21. That proves this fanbase will lose patience with literally anyone and it's sad and embarrassing.

Not reading any trades for Frank that involve retreads, broken down vets. Fultz and Walker are the two players I would be open to bringing here for Frank. The number one pick, potential superstar PG, and a starting PG (From NYC) in his prime, putting up elite numbers.

If anything its a compliment for the bar to be that high to be open to a trade involving Frank. As I said upthread, Frank's offense is still a question mark. We just dont know if he has that scorers mentality in him. He's had many opportunities to change that this season.

Thats what will separate Frank from being a starter in this league. Thats why you dont ignore good offers.

IF you look at Frank's game and history he most certainly has the scoring mentality. Its not how they are taught in EU, its all about the team first and in his case (young player) deferring to veteran players. That has been hammered into Frank and mistake free play dictated his minutes last year, not attacking and being aggressive. You just cant expect Frank to undo that training, at least not in his rookie year.

What Frank is doing this year at his age is very impressive. Even if his offense is just OK he could still end up on the all defensive team every year. Knicks have sucked at defense for a decade plus. They arent going to have sustained winning until they build that up. Scorers are easier to find than lock down defenders.

just OK is being very very kind

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I call shenanigans on the starphuch accusations, double shenanigans. This term used to apply to players brought in mostly to fill seats, whose value to the team did not match the paycheck for a variety of reasons, including health, and overall attitude.

Walker does not fit any of those descriptions as far as I can tell. Perry weighing going after one of the better starting PGs in his prime, to pair with a big man on the verge of stardom, is a wise move.

The question is do you want to wait (maybe years) to find out if Frank has an offense when a top flight starting PG is avaiable on a reasonable contract? Dont believe its so cut and dry. Definitely don't believe its a Starphuch

How top flight is Kemba really? Does he crack this top 8? I dont see that...

Kyrie
Wall
Westbrook
Curry
CP3
Lilliard
Lowry
Conley

next tier

Dragic
Kemba
Rubio
Bledsoe
JRue
George Hill
Beverly

Kemba is a really good player, but top flight? I dont see Kemba outplaying too many of those guys over a 7 game series and if he cant then Im waiting.

I believe you can make a case that a PG averaging 22/6 is a top ten PG.

Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Frank tomorrow is not what Frank is today. 40 games in and fans are losing patience.
Kemba is under 6 foot and what happens when small guys lose that explosive step?

Think why Jordan wants to trade these guys? He knows that core is going nowhere. What if you added KP to the Hornets? Would that change the whole franchise?

Frank and KP are hitting a wall because of THjr’s injury.
Making trades based on todays shortfall are not bad ideas but the long view is what most important.
Hornets have failed with Zeller who is not progressing as thought. Dwight is a disaster anywhere he goes. I have seen Hornets in person more than knicks and he plays for his pay.
Kemba when hot is awesome. His future is off the bench as a “Microwave”. I’m not knocking his talent, just his fit in our future.

Giving up on Frank after 40 games at age 19 when he is obviously struggling it’s his shot and thinking this is his whole career is shortsightingly ignorant. This is what rebuilding is like, its uneven, frustrating and requires patience. Need some imagination. No guarantees. If you want that you end up with mediocrity.

This will always be the common theme here, losing patience. I mean there were people losing patience with Porzingis last year and ready to trade him at age 21. That proves this fanbase will lose patience with literally anyone and it's sad and embarrassing.

Not reading any trades for Frank that involve retreads, broken down vets. Fultz and Walker are the two players I would be open to bringing here for Frank. The number one pick, potential superstar PG, and a starting PG (From NYC) in his prime, putting up elite numbers.

If anything its a compliment for the bar to be that high to be open to a trade involving Frank. As I said upthread, Frank's offense is still a question mark. We just dont know if he has that scorers mentality in him. He's had many opportunities to change that this season.

Thats what will separate Frank from being a starter in this league. Thats why you dont ignore good offers.

IF you look at Frank's game and history he most certainly has the scoring mentality. Its not how they are taught in EU, its all about the team first and in his case (young player) deferring to veteran players. That has been hammered into Frank and mistake free play dictated his minutes last year, not attacking and being aggressive. You just cant expect Frank to undo that training, at least not in his rookie year.

What Frank is doing this year at his age is very impressive. Even if his offense is just OK he could still end up on the all defensive team every year. Knicks have sucked at defense for a decade plus. They arent going to have sustained winning until they build that up. Scorers are easier to find than lock down defenders.

just OK is being very very kind

you and 1248... I love it. What were you guys saying? Frank's not a player who will be able to get to the rim? Literally every game the kid shows something
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=220659...

Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Frank tomorrow is not what Frank is today. 40 games in and fans are losing patience.
Kemba is under 6 foot and what happens when small guys lose that explosive step?

Think why Jordan wants to trade these guys? He knows that core is going nowhere. What if you added KP to the Hornets? Would that change the whole franchise?

Frank and KP are hitting a wall because of THjr’s injury.
Making trades based on todays shortfall are not bad ideas but the long view is what most important.
Hornets have failed with Zeller who is not progressing as thought. Dwight is a disaster anywhere he goes. I have seen Hornets in person more than knicks and he plays for his pay.
Kemba when hot is awesome. His future is off the bench as a “Microwave”. I’m not knocking his talent, just his fit in our future.

Giving up on Frank after 40 games at age 19 when he is obviously struggling it’s his shot and thinking this is his whole career is shortsightingly ignorant. This is what rebuilding is like, its uneven, frustrating and requires patience. Need some imagination. No guarantees. If you want that you end up with mediocrity.

This will always be the common theme here, losing patience. I mean there were people losing patience with Porzingis last year and ready to trade him at age 21. That proves this fanbase will lose patience with literally anyone and it's sad and embarrassing.

Not reading any trades for Frank that involve retreads, broken down vets. Fultz and Walker are the two players I would be open to bringing here for Frank. The number one pick, potential superstar PG, and a starting PG (From NYC) in his prime, putting up elite numbers.

If anything its a compliment for the bar to be that high to be open to a trade involving Frank. As I said upthread, Frank's offense is still a question mark. We just dont know if he has that scorers mentality in him. He's had many opportunities to change that this season.

Thats what will separate Frank from being a starter in this league. Thats why you dont ignore good offers.

IF you look at Frank's game and history he most certainly has the scoring mentality. Its not how they are taught in EU, its all about the team first and in his case (young player) deferring to veteran players. That has been hammered into Frank and mistake free play dictated his minutes last year, not attacking and being aggressive. You just cant expect Frank to undo that training, at least not in his rookie year.

What Frank is doing this year at his age is very impressive. Even if his offense is just OK he could still end up on the all defensive team every year. Knicks have sucked at defense for a decade plus. They arent going to have sustained winning until they build that up. Scorers are easier to find than lock down defenders.

just OK is being very very kind

super generous

kemba walker could be the next john wall...get itttt

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:Frank tomorrow is not what Frank is today. 40 games in and fans are losing patience.
Kemba is under 6 foot and what happens when small guys lose that explosive step?

Think why Jordan wants to trade these guys? He knows that core is going nowhere. What if you added KP to the Hornets? Would that change the whole franchise?

Frank and KP are hitting a wall because of THjr’s injury.
Making trades based on todays shortfall are not bad ideas but the long view is what most important.
Hornets have failed with Zeller who is not progressing as thought. Dwight is a disaster anywhere he goes. I have seen Hornets in person more than knicks and he plays for his pay.
Kemba when hot is awesome. His future is off the bench as a “Microwave”. I’m not knocking his talent, just his fit in our future.

Giving up on Frank after 40 games at age 19 when he is obviously struggling it’s his shot and thinking this is his whole career is shortsightingly ignorant. This is what rebuilding is like, its uneven, frustrating and requires patience. Need some imagination. No guarantees. If you want that you end up with mediocrity.

This will always be the common theme here, losing patience. I mean there were people losing patience with Porzingis last year and ready to trade him at age 21. That proves this fanbase will lose patience with literally anyone and it's sad and embarrassing.

Not reading any trades for Frank that involve retreads, broken down vets. Fultz and Walker are the two players I would be open to bringing here for Frank. The number one pick, potential superstar PG, and a starting PG (From NYC) in his prime, putting up elite numbers.

If anything its a compliment for the bar to be that high to be open to a trade involving Frank. As I said upthread, Frank's offense is still a question mark. We just dont know if he has that scorers mentality in him. He's had many opportunities to change that this season.

Thats what will separate Frank from being a starter in this league. Thats why you dont ignore good offers.

IF you look at Frank's game and history he most certainly has the scoring mentality. Its not how they are taught in EU, its all about the team first and in his case (young player) deferring to veteran players. That has been hammered into Frank and mistake free play dictated his minutes last year, not attacking and being aggressive. You just cant expect Frank to undo that training, at least not in his rookie year.

What Frank is doing this year at his age is very impressive. Even if his offense is just OK he could still end up on the all defensive team every year. Knicks have sucked at defense for a decade plus. They arent going to have sustained winning until they build that up. Scorers are easier to find than lock down defenders.

just OK is being very very kind

you and 1248... I love it. What were you guys saying? Frank's not a player who will be able to get to the rim? Literally every game the kid shows something
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=220659...

Anymore offensive highlights for Frank tonight im guessing not since that was his only basket

Vmart wrote:Tick, tick, tick and starphuck. What championship are guys going to win with Kemba.

THIS.

Walker is leading the Hornets to a WORSE record than the Knicks this year.

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:Tick, tick, tick and starphuck. What championship are guys going to win with Kemba.

THIS.

Walker is leading the Hornets to a WORSE record than the Knicks this year.

Triple Shenanigans! All because of one player? Sounds familiar....

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:Tick, tick, tick and starphuck. What championship are guys going to win with Kemba.

THIS.

Walker is leading the Hornets to a WORSE record than the Knicks this year.

not all starphucks are bad.
a long long time ago...i had suggested on here that we should trade melo to wiz for john wall, i believe this was right after woodson led 55 win season.
john wall wasn't what he is today, but you could see was progressing there.
PG position is the toughest position to learn, it takes years.

it happened a couple of years ago to john wall, i believe it happened last year to kemba...by "it" i mean the graduation to stellar scoring PG...they are the same age. last year and this year 85% from FT line, 40% last year from 3 pt line.
Of course every team that takes on Dwight Poser Howard suffers the consequences, not to mention Batum's shooting has been off this year maybe also due to the Dwight Black Hole Howard effect.
Kidd-Gilchrist cant shoot from the outside. Marvin Williams a career Courtney Lee type without the shooting.

To me this is a case of Kemba's numbers slightly deflated compared to last year when everyone else's shooting was up and the ball was moving just fine.

Can you imagine Kemba and THJr running up the floor together, with Lee and KP also great capable shooters from the outsdie with Kanter/KOQ in the middle. KOQ being an underrated passer.

holy shit it would be like Lowry-Derozan or Curry-Thompson with Kemba-Hardaway.
Defenses would find it very hard to stop us with 4 shooters and a speedy PG threat.

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:Tick, tick, tick and starphuck. What championship are guys going to win with Kemba.

THIS.

Walker is leading the Hornets to a WORSE record than the Knicks this year.

not all starphucks are bad.
a long long time ago...i had suggested on here that we should trade melo to wiz for john wall, i believe this was right after woodson led 55 win season.
john wall wasn't what he is today, but you could see was progressing there.
PG position is the toughest position to learn, it takes years.

it happened a couple of years ago to john wall, i believe it happened last year to kemba...by "it" i mean the graduation to stellar scoring PG...they are the same age. last year and this year 85% from FT line, 40% last year from 3 pt line.
Of course every team that takes on Dwight Poser Howard suffers the consequences, not to mention Batum's shooting has been off this year maybe also due to the Dwight Black Hole Howard effect.
Kidd-Gilchrist cant shoot from the outside. Marvin Williams a career Courtney Lee type without the shooting.

To me this is a case of Kemba's numbers slightly deflated compared to last year when everyone else's shooting was up and the ball was moving just fine.

Can you imagine Kemba and THJr running up the floor together, with Lee and KP also great capable shooters from the outsdie with Kanter/KOQ in the middle. KOQ being an underrated passer.

holy shit it would be like Lowry-Derozan or Curry-Thompson with Kemba-Hardaway.
Defenses would find it very hard to stop us with 4 shooters and a speedy PG threat.

unless of course we find out very soon that trey burke is on that same trajectory

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:Tick, tick, tick and starphuck. What championship are guys going to win with Kemba.

THIS.

Walker is leading the Hornets to a WORSE record than the Knicks this year.

not all starphucks are bad.
a long long time ago...i had suggested on here that we should trade melo to wiz for john wall, i believe this was right after woodson led 55 win season.
john wall wasn't what he is today, but you could see was progressing there.
PG position is the toughest position to learn, it takes years.

it happened a couple of years ago to john wall, i believe it happened last year to kemba...by "it" i mean the graduation to stellar scoring PG...they are the same age. last year and this year 85% from FT line, 40% last year from 3 pt line.
Of course every team that takes on Dwight Poser Howard suffers the consequences, not to mention Batum's shooting has been off this year maybe also due to the Dwight Black Hole Howard effect.
Kidd-Gilchrist cant shoot from the outside. Marvin Williams a career Courtney Lee type without the shooting.

To me this is a case of Kemba's numbers slightly deflated compared to last year when everyone else's shooting was up and the ball was moving just fine.

Can you imagine Kemba and THJr running up the floor together, with Lee and KP also great capable shooters from the outsdie with Kanter/KOQ in the middle. KOQ being an underrated passer.

holy shit it would be like Lowry-Derozan or Curry-Thompson with Kemba-Hardaway.
Defenses would find it very hard to stop us with 4 shooters and a speedy PG threat.

If the player is worth the money, it isn't a starphuch Susan.

GustavBahler wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:Tick, tick, tick and starphuck. What championship are guys going to win with Kemba.

THIS.

Walker is leading the Hornets to a WORSE record than the Knicks this year.

not all starphucks are bad.
a long long time ago...i had suggested on here that we should trade melo to wiz for john wall, i believe this was right after woodson led 55 win season.
john wall wasn't what he is today, but you could see was progressing there.
PG position is the toughest position to learn, it takes years.

it happened a couple of years ago to john wall, i believe it happened last year to kemba...by "it" i mean the graduation to stellar scoring PG...they are the same age. last year and this year 85% from FT line, 40% last year from 3 pt line.
Of course every team that takes on Dwight Poser Howard suffers the consequences, not to mention Batum's shooting has been off this year maybe also due to the Dwight Black Hole Howard effect.
Kidd-Gilchrist cant shoot from the outside. Marvin Williams a career Courtney Lee type without the shooting.

To me this is a case of Kemba's numbers slightly deflated compared to last year when everyone else's shooting was up and the ball was moving just fine.

Can you imagine Kemba and THJr running up the floor together, with Lee and KP also great capable shooters from the outsdie with Kanter/KOQ in the middle. KOQ being an underrated passer.

holy shit it would be like Lowry-Derozan or Curry-Thompson with Kemba-Hardaway.
Defenses would find it very hard to stop us with 4 shooters and a speedy PG threat.

If the player is worth the money, it isn't a starphuch Susan.

aww nancy, agreeing with me?

Cartman718 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:Tick, tick, tick and starphuck. What championship are guys going to win with Kemba.

THIS.

Walker is leading the Hornets to a WORSE record than the Knicks this year.

not all starphucks are bad.
a long long time ago...i had suggested on here that we should trade melo to wiz for john wall, i believe this was right after woodson led 55 win season.
john wall wasn't what he is today, but you could see was progressing there.
PG position is the toughest position to learn, it takes years.

it happened a couple of years ago to john wall, i believe it happened last year to kemba...by "it" i mean the graduation to stellar scoring PG...they are the same age. last year and this year 85% from FT line, 40% last year from 3 pt line.
Of course every team that takes on Dwight Poser Howard suffers the consequences, not to mention Batum's shooting has been off this year maybe also due to the Dwight Black Hole Howard effect.
Kidd-Gilchrist cant shoot from the outside. Marvin Williams a career Courtney Lee type without the shooting.

To me this is a case of Kemba's numbers slightly deflated compared to last year when everyone else's shooting was up and the ball was moving just fine.

Can you imagine Kemba and THJr running up the floor together, with Lee and KP also great capable shooters from the outsdie with Kanter/KOQ in the middle. KOQ being an underrated passer.

holy shit it would be like Lowry-Derozan or Curry-Thompson with Kemba-Hardaway.
Defenses would find it very hard to stop us with 4 shooters and a speedy PG threat.

If the player is worth the money, it isn't a starphuch Susan.

aww nancy, agreeing with me?

If anything you're agreeing with me Suze, about Walker. My point is that a player who is worth bringing to NY, isn't fing us. So that expression doesn't apply.

understood, but thats what the majority of the board would have you believe...his contract is up in 2019, so if he plays ridiculously bad on this team we can just let him walk...not sure how that is a bad starphuch.
at 12 mill??? umm even before the now upped salary cap, the likes of iman shumpert were getting paid 10 mill.

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:Tick, tick, tick and starphuck. What championship are guys going to win with Kemba.

THIS.

Walker is leading the Hornets to a WORSE record than the Knicks this year.

Triple Shenanigans! All because of one player? Sounds familiar....

Well, help me out. How do you compare Knicks players v Charlotte players minus Kemba.

And it's already a detriment that Kemba is not making Hornets players better.

Howard, Batum (injured and returned), MKG, Marvin Williams, Frank the Tank, Zeller.

Mkg and Marvin Williams is interesting but I am expect they would be over valued and even if they weren't and the Knicks could trade for them without involving their youth...... I don't think it would move the needle enough to make it worth the effort.

John wall was raw but his size and speed made him a big upside project.
Kemba has been a great scorer and has game. In my opinion Kemba reached his potential sooner were wall needed tie and some good teammates around him. As John ages his body is filling out, he is not quite the road runner he was a few years ago but is still quick but stronger. At his size it matters. Kemba is smaller, much smaller.