Knicks · Either play Frank 30 a night or send him to the GLeague (page 1)

Win or lose he has to play. We aren't making the playoffs and playing these vets does nothing for the future of this team. Frank was brutal last night but playing him 15 minutes isn't helping him develop. If he fails let him fail. He isn't going to figure out anything on the bench. If the Knicks want to hold onto the fallacy of competing for the playoffs till the deadline fine, then swap Frank with Burke and let Frank work out the kinks on the floor in the G-League.

agree whole heartedly. i said this a while...if we are going to lose on this road stretch...we might as well lose with him learning from timmy and lee.

I think he should start along with THJR and Lee and let him get torched a few times by faster PGs, he will learn from it

meloshouldgo wrote:I think he should start along with THJR and Lee and let him get torched a few times by faster PGs, he will learn from it

yup...now that burke has been signed, i wonder whose mins he'll take

Cartman718 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:I think he should start along with THJR and Lee and let him get torched a few times by faster PGs, he will learn from it

yup...now that burke has been signed, i wonder whose mins he'll take

He might take Frank's minutes. Frank was up at 25 a game and that dropped to 14 yesterday. Not sure how playing more or against tougher point guards(starters) makes him learn faster. Also, the rest of the team maybe upset if Hornacek pulls the plug on the season to tank/see if Frank can learn against even tougher opponents versus not learning against second unit guys.

Frank was making steady progress each month until January. The kid was improving and who knows if the Road could be impacting him or the accumulation of 42 games which he's never played at this level before. He was on an upward trajectory until recently.

MONTH	 GP MIN  PTS FGM FGA FG%  3PM 3PA 3P%  FTM FTA FT%  OREB DREB REB  AST  TOV STL BLK PF  FP   DD2 TD3 +/-
October	 4  15.6 4.8 2.0 5.8 34.8 0.8 2.0 37.5 0.0 0.0 0.0  0.3  1.5  1.8  2.5  2.3 1.3 0.0 3.3 12.1 0   0   1.8
November 14 20.0 4.7 1.9 5.4 34.2 0.4 1.7 20.8 0.6 1.0 64.3 0.4  1.4  1.8  3.6  1.9 1.4 0.2 2.4 15.2 0   0  -1.1
December 15 24.2 7.5 2.9 7.5 38.4 0.8 2.1 37.5 0.9 1.2 77.8 0.5  2.3  2.9  3.7  1.6 1.3 0.1 2.5 18.8 0   0   0.9
January	 6  19.8 3.5 1.3 4.7 28.6 0.5 1.3 37.5 0.3 0.7 50.0 0.3  1.7  2.0  2.7  2.0 0.3 0.5 2.5	10.4 0   0  -3.5

http://stats.nba.com/player/1628373/trad...

I actually think starring in the g league would be good for Frank. But at this point, it may be better to sit Jack and let Frank and Burke run the point. If burke's defense proves better than Jack's defense, Burke may end up being our best pg.

Or we could just play him at 20 mins in the nba and develop him slowly, as is common practice.

TheGame wrote:I actually think starring in the g league would be good for Frank. But at this point, it may be better to sit Jack and let Frank and Burke run the point. If burke's defense proves better than Jack's defense, Burke may end up being our best pg.

I think he may become more selfish offensively thats what the Knicks need. They need him to drop 15 a night

dumb thread. You dont rush kids development. You just dont. If he's ready he will be ready. Forcing more minutes doesnt speed up development. He's 19. There is a process. This whole year is an into to the league, playing 82 games, everything about the NBA. Not for impatient fans to say run him out there because WTF.

Jmpasq your a walking example of where "you cant rebuild in NY" came from. 40ish games? Trade him. Not an all star by 22? Trade him. If you cant give a 19 year old more than 40 games of patience (who btw has shown quite a bit) why draft at all? Best to trade the picks for 2nd rounders so you can draft 23 year old college SRs and trade for guys like Kemba Walker

smackeddog wrote:Or we could just play him at 20 mins in the nba and develop him slowly, as is common practice.

Thank you. A voice of reason in a cacophony of whiny ignorance.

fishmike wrote:dumb thread. You dont rush kids development. You just dont. If he's ready he will be ready. Forcing more minutes doesnt speed up development. He's 19. There is a process. This whole year is an into to the league, playing 82 games, everything about the NBA. Not for impatient fans to say run him out there because WTF.

Jmpasq your a walking example of where "you cant rebuild in NY" came from. 40ish games? Trade him. Not an all star by 22? Trade him. If you cant give a 19 year old more than 40 games of patience (who btw has shown quite a bit) why draft at all? Best to trade the picks for 2nd rounders so you can draft 23 year old college SRs and trade for guys like Kemba Walker

I have no problem with rebuilding but the problem is the way the Knicks are doing it. You don't say your rebuilding and play Vets the bulk of the minutes. You don't rebuild than handcuff the team with contracts. I mean this team is over the cap and what do they really have. Basically the Knicks only hope is that a late lottery picks turns into Lebron James. You want to do it your way and slowly develop fine but then don't add players that squash any chance at getting a top player in the draft. Don't saddle the team with contracts that no one wants. Build assets and stay flexible had the Knicks done that I would have no problem with rebuilding but there is zero logic in this strategy. We have sucked for so long and you want to suck for another 5 years while we wait to hit on a pick from 12-16, Awesome.

Friday morning means another run through eye-popping stats from all over the NBA.

BPM, Win Shares per 48 minutes, PER and Real Plus-Minus all take different routes (or formulas) to essentially the same goal: putting a player’s overall impact into one number.

Here are top 10s in all of the above.

TOP 10 IN ROOKIE BOX PLUS/MINUS (MINIMUM 250 MINUTES)
1. Jordan Bell
2. Ben Simmons
3. Jayson Tatum
4. John Collins
5. Bam Adebayo
6. Lonzo Ball
7. Daniel Theis
8. OG Anunoby
9. Donovan Mitchell
10. Tyler Cavanaugh

TOP 10 IN ROOKIE OFFENSIVE BOX PLUS/MINUS (MINIMUM 250 MINUTES)
1. Tyler Cavanaugh
2. Jordan Bell
3. Donovan Mitchell
4. Jamil Wilson
5. Bogdan Bogdanovic
6. John Collins
7. OG Anunoby
8. Jayson Tatum
9. Kyle Kuzma
10. Lauri Markkanen

TOP 10 IN ROOKIE DEFENSIVE BOX PLUS/MINUS (MINIMUM 250 MINUTES)
1. Jordan Bell
2. Daniel Theis
3. Ben Simmons
4. Lonzo Ball
5. Bam Adebayo
6. Jarrett Allen
7. Jayson Tatum
8. Jonathan Isaac
9. Brandon Paul
10. John Collins

TOP 10 IN ROOKIE WIN SHARES PER 48 MINUTES (MINIMUM 250 MINUTES)
1. Jordan Bell
2. Jayson Tatum
3. Bam Adebayo
4. John Collins
5. Daniel Theis
6. Tyler Cavanaugh
7. Jarrett Allen
8. Maxi Kleber
9. Ben Simmons
10. Jamil Wilson

TOP 10 IN ROOKIE PLAYER EFFICIENCY RATING (MINIMUM 250 MINUTES)
1. John Collins
2. Jordan Bell
3. Ben Simmons
4. Bam Adebayo
5. Jayson Tatum
6. Donovan Mitchell
7. Lauri Markkanen
8. Jarrett Allen
9. Tyler Cavanaugh
10. Daniel Theis

TOP 10 IN ROOKIE REAL PLUS-MINUS (MINIMUM 250 MINUTES)
1. Jordan Bell
2. Jayson Tatum
3. Ben Simmons
4. OG Anunoby
5. Donovan Mitchell
6. Jamil Wilson
7. Royce O’Neale
8. Maxi Kleber
9. Tyler Cavanaugh
10. Lonzo Ball

TOP 10 IN ROOKIE OFFENSIVE REAL PLUS-MINUS (MINIMUM 250 MINUTES)
1. Donovan Mitchell
2. OG Anunoby
3. Jordan Bell
4. Jayson Tatum
5. Tyler Cavanaugh
6. Ben Simmons
7. Kyle Kuzma
8. Bogdan Bogdanovic
9. Luke Kennard
10. Mike James

TOP 10 IN ROOKIE DEFENSIVE REAL PLUS-MINUS (MINIMUM 250 MINUTES)
1. Jordan Bell
2. Ben Simmons
3. Jayson Tatum
4. Maxi Kleber
5. Lonzo Ball
6. OG Anunoby
7. Royce O’Neale
8. Milos Teodosic
9. Daniel Theis
10. Jamil Wilson

—

https://www.fanragsports.com/nba-stats-r...

IM thinking he should play down because.

1. He is not playing well now, and thus if he goes down and returns strong, I will feel better about myself.
2. There is not basis for my suggestion and thus I can’t be wrong.
3. I am empowered if it happens.
4. We are here to fix the knicks.
5. MY dog thinks its a good idea.
6. I am taking for granted what he does. I don’t know what coach is asking him to do either.
7. I mad.
8. I was wrong, rebuilding sucks, I want to win now!! Starphuch is wrong but it feels so good too!

Nalod wrote:
IM thinking he should play down because.

1. He is not playing well now, and thus if he goes down and returns strong, I will feel better about myself.
2. There is not basis for my suggestion and thus I can’t be wrong.
3. I am empowered if it happens.
4. We are here to fix the knicks.
5. MY dog thinks its a good idea.
6. I am taking for granted what he does. I don’t know what coach is asking him to do either.
7. I mad.
8. I was wrong, rebuilding sucks, I want to win now!! Starphuch is wrong but it feels so good too!

Dont believe its such a bad idea sending Frank to the G-league with the mandate to work on his offense. Try out things Frank is clearly reluctant to do now.

Was good enough for Hardaway. Timmy credits going to the G-league for helping him right the ship. Nothing wrong with going back to the lab. Frank clearly needs it.

GustavBahler wrote:Dont believe its such a bad idea sending Frank to the G-league with the mandate to work on his offense. Try out things Frank is clearly reluctant to do now.

Was good enough for Hardaway. Timmy credits going to the G-league for helping him right the ship. Nothing wrong with going back to the lab. Frank clearly needs it.

There are Frank homers on here that refuse to admit that there is anything wrong with his game. One guy puts up a highlight of Frank taking it the rim in the first quarter against the Timberwolves as an I told you so post. Than refuses to acknowledge it was the kids only basket of the night. The kid is great defensively but he is brutal on offense. I prefer him in the G-league because maybe that will change his mindset some. The Knicks need him to assert himself offensively and for whatever reason he has been unable to do so. Maybe he will be more comfortable shooting in the G-League

GustavBahler wrote:Dont believe its such a bad idea sending Frank to the G-league with the mandate to work on his offense. Try out things Frank is clearly reluctant to do now.

Was good enough for Hardaway. Timmy credits going to the G-league for helping him right the ship. Nothing wrong with going back to the lab. Frank clearly needs it.

You go either way on this. Don't think it's a problem as long as he continues to get regular minutes. As Nix pointed out, Frank showed steady improvement each month with dribble penetration, aggressiveness etc. Atlanta was a legit playoff team when they sent Tim down. We're on the bubble and don't have nearly as much urgency. Plus, he's needed. A Jack/Burke backcourt leaves you with as bad defense of last year with even less scoring.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Dont believe its such a bad idea sending Frank to the G-league with the mandate to work on his offense. Try out things Frank is clearly reluctant to do now.

Was good enough for Hardaway. Timmy credits going to the G-league for helping him right the ship. Nothing wrong with going back to the lab. Frank clearly needs it.

You go either way on this. Don't think it's a problem as long as he continues to get regular minutes. As Nix pointed out, Frank showed steady improvement each month with dribble penetration, aggressiveness etc. Atlanta was a legit playoff team when they sent Tim down. We're on the bubble and don't have nearly as much urgency. Plus, he's needed. A Jack/Burke backcourt leaves you with as bad defense of last year with even less scoring.

Dont believe the rate of Frank's progress is strong enough to rule out the G-league. There are still way too many moments when you see Frank trying to make up his mind about wether or not to shoot, to drive.

G-League would be a good place to get that out his game. It could be a huge boost for Frank's confidence to open up his game on offense. Try things out now he's not yet ready to do in the pros, without having to wait for the offseason.

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Dont believe its such a bad idea sending Frank to the G-league with the mandate to work on his offense. Try out things Frank is clearly reluctant to do now.

Was good enough for Hardaway. Timmy credits going to the G-league for helping him right the ship. Nothing wrong with going back to the lab. Frank clearly needs it.

You go either way on this. Don't think it's a problem as long as he continues to get regular minutes. As Nix pointed out, Frank showed steady improvement each month with dribble penetration, aggressiveness etc. Atlanta was a legit playoff team when they sent Tim down. We're on the bubble and don't have nearly as much urgency. Plus, he's needed. A Jack/Burke backcourt leaves you with as bad defense of last year with even less scoring.

Dont believe the rate of Frank's progress is strong enough to rule out the G-league. There are still way too many moments when you see Frank trying to make up his mind about wether or not to shoot, to drive.

G-League would be a good place to get that out his game. It could be a huge boost for Frank's confidence to open up his game on offense. Try things out now he's not yet ready to do in the pros, without having to wait for the offseason.

It is if he's playing at the rate he is now. And again, he's needed. We're talking layup lines without him and he knows the offense. G-League scoring means nothing to me. Frank works hard and he'll improve in the off season. Maybe he'll even play a summer league? I'd rather have him up with the big club.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Dont believe its such a bad idea sending Frank to the G-league with the mandate to work on his offense. Try out things Frank is clearly reluctant to do now.

Was good enough for Hardaway. Timmy credits going to the G-league for helping him right the ship. Nothing wrong with going back to the lab. Frank clearly needs it.

You go either way on this. Don't think it's a problem as long as he continues to get regular minutes. As Nix pointed out, Frank showed steady improvement each month with dribble penetration, aggressiveness etc. Atlanta was a legit playoff team when they sent Tim down. We're on the bubble and don't have nearly as much urgency. Plus, he's needed. A Jack/Burke backcourt leaves you with as bad defense of last year with even less scoring.

Dont believe the rate of Frank's progress is strong enough to rule out the G-league. There are still way too many moments when you see Frank trying to make up his mind about wether or not to shoot, to drive.

G-League would be a good place to get that out his game. It could be a huge boost for Frank's confidence to open up his game on offense. Try things out now he's not yet ready to do in the pros, without having to wait for the offseason.

It is if he's playing at the rate he is now. And again, he's needed. We're talking layup lines without him and he knows the offense. G-League scoring means nothing to me. Frank works hard and he'll improve in the off season. Maybe he'll even play a summer league? I'd rather have him up with the big club.

Frank being aggressive anywhere is important because thats not his MO. We are playing 4 on 5 on offense and other teams are factoring that into their game plan. He is valuable on D, but Frank's overall value to the team will be diminished as long as we have to literally wait weeks for him to get to the line. Its an important part of being a PG.