CrushAlot wrote:fwk00 wrote:martin wrote:I am guessing that all of those who want to trade Noah and the first for "Cap space" have no idea what the cap situation is and what they Knicks would be idiots to do that type of trade.Figure out the numbers, figure out the target and get back to us with a better explanation then "we need to trade for cap space"
I can still remember how Phil was labeled a failure the summer Greg Monroe signed with Milwaukee and we had "cap space". Such a joy to wait for those special opportunities.
He wasn't labeled a failure but it was an eye opener. Guys that could get more money were not going to sign in NY to play for Phil in the front office.
The point I was making is that a small contingent of us did not want Monroe and Phil was smart enough to understand that as well. Yet, the NY media skewered Phil for not signing him.
There's this meme that NY Knick basketball fans are so sophisticated yet I think its just a myth.
My son's take on the Boston loss is that the Baker injury is problematic. While not yet the scorer he will become, his lockdown defense was sorely missed in that fourth quarter.
fwk00 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:fwk00 wrote:martin wrote:I am guessing that all of those who want to trade Noah and the first for "Cap space" have no idea what the cap situation is and what they Knicks would be idiots to do that type of trade.Figure out the numbers, figure out the target and get back to us with a better explanation then "we need to trade for cap space"
I can still remember how Phil was labeled a failure the summer Greg Monroe signed with Milwaukee and we had "cap space". Such a joy to wait for those special opportunities.
He wasn't labeled a failure but it was an eye opener. Guys that could get more money were not going to sign in NY to play for Phil in the front office.
The point I was making is that a small contingent of us did not want Monroe and Phil was smart enough to understand that as well. Yet, the NY media skewered Phil for not signing him.
There's this meme that NY Knick basketball fans are so sophisticated yet I think its just a myth.
My son's take on the Boston loss is that the Baker injury is problematic. While not yet the scorer he will become, his lockdown defense was sorely missed in that fourth quarter.
Bakers defense is over rated. No way is he a lock down defender. Who's he locking down? Rozier? Brown ? Yea sure. In your dreams, your kids dreams and Bakers dreams. We lost by 30 points and Baker can't score, yet missing him was the difference in that game? Give me a break. How old is your kid? I don't wish injury on anyone yet Bakers injury is the best thing for the future of the team. Will allow Dotson and Burke to play more and get valuable experience. Both better prospects than Baker. Baker is cringe worthy on offense.
Honestly, as long as it was not our pick and we got back a decent sf, I would do it. This years draft is not as strong as last year. Chances are, we are not going to draft a superstar with a pick in the teens. Getting rid of Noah's deals frees us up to sign a free agent this summer before we have to pay KP the max. Trade lee or KOQ for a 1st rounder and then attach it to Noah to get a deal done. There has got to one team out there that needs a defensive center and wants the extra pick.
Cartman718 wrote:I wouldn't mind dealing a first round pick with Noah if its 2020 pick or later, in 2020 we should be really a late first round pick team and also I am pretty sure we can get a 2018 or 2019 first round pick for dealing away KOQ / Lee etc.
Yeah and porzingis doesn't resign and it turns into the first pick in the draft, thats what will happen because we are the Knicks
martin wrote:I am guessing that all of those who want to trade Noah and the first for "Cap space" have no idea what the cap situation is and what they Knicks would be idiots to do that type of trade.Figure out the numbers, figure out the target and get back to us with a better explanation then "we need to trade for cap space"
Yeah if the situation arose where a player wanted to sign here we could do a trade then or stretch him if we had to no reason to rush into this at the trade deadline. I'm hoping Noah forfeits a year of his contract (Very Unlikely).
Jmpasq wrote:martin wrote:I am guessing that all of those who want to trade Noah and the first for "Cap space" have no idea what the cap situation is and what they Knicks would be idiots to do that type of trade.Figure out the numbers, figure out the target and get back to us with a better explanation then "we need to trade for cap space"
Yeah if the situation arose where a player wanted to sign here we could do a trade then or stretch him if we had to no reason to rush into this at the trade deadline. I'm hoping Noah forfeits a year of his contract (Very Unlikely).
I think everyone needs to loosen up. If we didn't talk about what it's and post crazy trade scenarios there wouldn't be a forum. It's fun to imagine while taking a dump. Takes the mind off of the shit you have to deal with
EnySpree wrote:Welpee wrote:Cartman718 wrote:I wouldn't mind dealing a first round pick with Noah if its 2020 pick or later, in 2020 we should be really a late first round pick team and also I am pretty sure we can get a 2018 or 2019 first round pick for dealing away KOQ / Lee etc.
Yeah, we thought that when we dealt those picks in the Eddy Curry trade. Ended up turning into Aldridge and (ironically) Noah.
We're not trading picks away for Curry though. We're trading a pick away with Noah looking for cap relief and a player... it's a totally different thing.
At the time we actually needed to keep drafting. Right now we really need to jumpstart the rebuild cuz KP Abe some of the guys we have at 25 years old are ready to play right now. Nothing is urgent but we should really look into this.... especially for fun. Too much negative stuff. Why not play devil's advocate?
If unloading Noah is the primary objective I would rather just stretch him or buy him out. I don't care what he says, if he truly wants to play he'll leave some money on the table for a buy out. If he wants to be a jerk about and get all of his money let him sit for the next three years. He really has no leverage.
And does anyone really expect Noah and a 1st round pick to yield anyone who would be part of our future? This player would have to already be making huge money for salaries to match up. So are you really gaining anything cap wise?
Would you do the following with Charlotte:
Batum, Walker for Noah, McDermott, Lee and our 1st round pick this year?
The Knicks would be better off trading Kanter and O’Quin. They have value which would make it easier to move. The Knicks can go forward by playing Noah and Willie. In the process develop Willie and increase Noah’s value for his expiring year.
Vmart wrote:The Knicks would be better off trading Kanter and O’Quin. They have value which would make it easier to move. The Knicks can go forward by playing Noah and Willie. In the process develop Willie and increase Noah’s value for his expiring year.
Unfortunately from what I've seen playing Noah
decreases his value. Noah will never play another game for the Knicks moving forward.
Vmart wrote:The Knicks would be better off trading Kanter and O’Quin. They have value which would make it easier to move. The Knicks can go forward by playing Noah and Willie. In the process develop Willie and increase Noah’s value for his expiring year.
Keep the pick. But out Noah. Evening if we traded him we would take batch garbage, but in the process we would lose a pick
Welpee wrote:Vmart wrote:The Knicks would be better off trading Kanter and O’Quin. They have value which would make it easier to move. The Knicks can go forward by playing Noah and Willie. In the process develop Willie and increase Noah’s value for his expiring year.
Unfortunately from what I've seen playing Noah decreases his value. Noah will never play another game for the Knicks moving forward.
Exactly. Even if Noah plays well, nothing can increase his value. People know what he is and won't take on that contract. He just isn't a fit in today's NBA, and teams know that. If and when he gets out of his Knicks deal, he will probably hang in the league for another year or 2 for the minimum, then be out of the league. That's his best case scenario at this point.
Noah for Batum.
Who says no?
Noah's salary is $2 million less and is one year shorter than Batum's. If the Hornets are trying to shed Batum's salary maybe they would bite. I'd even throw in Chicago's second rounder to get it done.
reub wrote:Noah for Batum.Who says no?
Noah's salary is $2 million less and is one year shorter than Batum's. If the Hornets are trying to shed Batum's salary maybe they would bite. I'd even throw in Chicago's second rounder to get it done.
I suggested this earlier in the thread. Think Batum could revitalize his career here as a
point forward thus allowing his fellow countryman to become a secondary ball handler.
Getting Batum allows us to trade C.Lee for draft picks that will be on cheap contracts to make up for the Batum $.
I like Batum - salary aside, he’s an established 2 way player, excellent distributor/ball handler at the wing positions. Exactly what the team needs at the 3.
Not sure if cutting a year of salary from the books is enough for Jordan to bite. They already have Howard, Frank the tank, and a Zeller at center.
technomaster wrote:I like Batum - salary aside, he’s an established 2 way player, excellent distributor/ball handler at the wing positions. Exactly what the team needs at the 3.Not sure if cutting a year of salary from the books is enough for Jordan to bite. They already have Howard, Frank the tank, and a Zeller at center.
That year is 27 mil and if you consider luxury tax considerations it saves them a ton of money. I believe a straight up deal saves them 40 mil before luxury tax is figured in. But Batum has been on the decline and I believe I heard somewhere that the Hornets are worried about his production and his deal.
CrushAlot wrote:technomaster wrote:I like Batum - salary aside, he’s an established 2 way player, excellent distributor/ball handler at the wing positions. Exactly what the team needs at the 3.Not sure if cutting a year of salary from the books is enough for Jordan to bite. They already have Howard, Frank the tank, and a Zeller at center.
That year is 27 mil and if you consider luxury tax considerations it saves them a ton of money. I believe a straight up deal saves them 40 mil before luxury tax is figured in. But Batum has been on the decline and I believe I heard somewhere that the Hornets are worried about his production and his deal.
I'd be willing to take the risk on Batum because we know that Noah is totally done here anyway.
reub wrote:Noah for Batum.Who says no?
Noah's salary is $2 million less and is one year shorter than Batum's. If the Hornets are trying to shed Batum's salary maybe they would bite. I'd even throw in Chicago's second rounder to get it done.
I say no to the accuracy of this post. There are a ton of salary sites to verify Batum's contact.
Noah: $17.8, $18.5, $19.3
Batum: $22.4, $24, $25.5, $27
I have no idea if Batum is having an off year cause of injury or what.
Who wants a possibly injury prone Batum at 32 earning $27M VERSUS having the cap space to sign a max free agent? That's generally what you are asking and you went all in on Batum with a second round cherry on top.
reub wrote:CrushAlot wrote:technomaster wrote:I like Batum - salary aside, he’s an established 2 way player, excellent distributor/ball handler at the wing positions. Exactly what the team needs at the 3.Not sure if cutting a year of salary from the books is enough for Jordan to bite. They already have Howard, Frank the tank, and a Zeller at center.
That year is 27 mil and if you consider luxury tax considerations it saves them a ton of money. I believe a straight up deal saves them 40 mil before luxury tax is figured in. But Batum has been on the decline and I believe I heard somewhere that the Hornets are worried about his production and his deal.
I'd be willing to take the risk on Batum because we know that Noah is totally done here anyway.
He's on the books until 2021 and the last year is 27 mil.
He has 77 mil left on his deal after this year. I just don't think you can go there. That handcuffs the Knicks more and for a longer period of time.
Yeah, I didn't see that final year salary. Maybe they would give us a pick to get it done. It's just that Batum plays a position of need for us, would help Frank, and can actually still play a little.
CrushAlot wrote:reub wrote:CrushAlot wrote:technomaster wrote:I like Batum - salary aside, he’s an established 2 way player, excellent distributor/ball handler at the wing positions. Exactly what the team needs at the 3.Not sure if cutting a year of salary from the books is enough for Jordan to bite. They already have Howard, Frank the tank, and a Zeller at center.
That year is 27 mil and if you consider luxury tax considerations it saves them a ton of money. I believe a straight up deal saves them 40 mil before luxury tax is figured in. But Batum has been on the decline and I believe I heard somewhere that the Hornets are worried about his production and his deal.
I'd be willing to take the risk on Batum because we know that Noah is totally done here anyway.
He's on the books until 2021 and the last year is 27 mil.
He has 77 mil left on his deal after this year. I just don't think you can go there. That handcuffs the Knicks more and for a longer period of time.
How about we look at acquiring a Batum in a slightly different light. Expensive? meh.
Can he contribute to getting us into the playoffs for three or four years? I happen to think so. So who cares what he costs four years from now? Ask for a Charlotte first rounder three years out to offset the possibility that Batum becomes an albatross.
This is not to say I'm advocating acquiring Batum, just saying that we have to stop this fixation on cap space, who makes what, and some over-the-horizon utopian FA. Let's start thinking about what it takes to win and make wins happen. Again, I'm not speaking of star-phks - just stop being afraid of success.
Get some talent in here.
