Knicks · Mudiay is not that athletic (page 2)
franco12 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:franco12 wrote:we don't need him to become anything other than the best player he can be. I want him and Frank to turn into our Darrell Walker & Rory Sparrow, our Chris Childs and Charlie Ward.We don't need an all star at every position, though we certainly need an upgrade in talent.
I saw an amazing pass from Mudiay the other game - full court thread the needle type.
He had a great in the lane finish tonight.
So, he has the potential to be really good.
Likewise, he has struggled with shots that he should make easily. I hope we have an off season program set up for both Mudiay & Frank.
I like their potential. We need help at the SF & PF spot, hopefully we can address in the draft.
Nice post and true -- I remember him as a good passer coming into the league -- that's something he still needs work on.
I mean between Burke, Hardaway, Mudiay, Frank N & Dotson- I hope we have a group that can be the mainstay of our backcourt in the next 2-5 years productively.
No doubt we could have better, and no doubt they need to develop.
And no doubt they are all question marks.
Briggs back from the edge- I should get points for that!
big points to both of you!!!
Better than my Snarky ass comments for sure!
I think our emotions run high these days.
Nothing good will come of the rest of this season. Winning streak would bum us out as we'd not get a top 5 pick in the draft as we would like.
Losing sucks no matter how.
Mundiay was dumped cheap for a reason. Not sure whats between the ears with this kid. Is he Tyreke? JR? or Stephanson? Or will he put it together.
Maybe Drue Holiday is the top range? Not bad.
SupremeCommander wrote:we really fucked up by going with an out of shape guy with a bum ankle instead of Elfrid Payton. When you buy the most heavily discounted item on the sale rack it usually it is a steaming pile of shit
Payton is a stat-suffer but he's about to get paid this summer. He is also 2 years older than Mudiay. The impatience is exactly why it's so tough for players to develop here.
SupremeCommander wrote:we really fucked up by going with an out of shape guy with a bum ankle instead of Elfrid Payton. When you buy the most heavily discounted item on the sale rack it usually it is a steaming pile of shitI like the Mudiay trade. Not getting Payton for that price is questionable. I thought Perry drafted him so Im surprised we didnt jump on that. Maybe they just didnt want to resign him. I dont know.
fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:we really fucked up by going with an out of shape guy with a bum ankle instead of Elfrid Payton. When you buy the most heavily discounted item on the sale rack it usually it is a steaming pile of shitI like the Mudiay trade. Not getting Payton for that price is questionable. I thought Perry drafted him so Im surprised we didnt jump on that. Maybe they just didnt want to resign him. I dont know.
Seems like they probably still view Ntilikina as the PG of the future, and Mudiay gives them one additional bridge gap year to keep the pressure off him to start.
nixluva wrote:franco12 wrote:we don't need him to become anything other than the best player he can be. I want him and Frank to turn into our Darrell Walker & Rory Sparrow, our Chris Childs and Charlie Ward.We don't need an all star at every position, though we certainly need an upgrade in talent.
I saw an amazing pass from Mudiay the other game - full court thread the needle type.
He had a great in the lane finish tonight.
So, he has the potential to be really good.
Likewise, he has struggled with shots that he should make easily. I hope we have an off season program set up for both Mudiay & Frank.
I like their potential. We need help at the SF & PF spot, hopefully we can address in the draft.
Excellent post. I also hope this Front Office takes the development of these kids seriously. I have no idea what Perry has planned but it’s gotta be better than we’ve seen in the past.
agree with both of these. Even if he lacks burst, he has very good change of direction which can be more important. Needs to stay on his feet though -- falling down is a bad habit (essentially concedes a better chance at a bucket at the other end, and indicative of lack of control). Also needs to improve his shot selection and attack the rim to draw fouls.
In fact our whole team needs to improve at drawing fouls and attacking the rim -- super efficient as far as scoring, put pressure on D as they get in penalty or top players foul out etc.
We're a bunch of pusses on offense
Knixkik wrote:fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:we really fucked up by going with an out of shape guy with a bum ankle instead of Elfrid Payton. When you buy the most heavily discounted item on the sale rack it usually it is a steaming pile of shitI like the Mudiay trade. Not getting Payton for that price is questionable. I thought Perry drafted him so Im surprised we didnt jump on that. Maybe they just didnt want to resign him. I dont know.Seems like they probably still view Ntilikina as the PG of the future, and Mudiay gives them one additional bridge gap year to keep the pressure off him to start.
My own sense is this is part of a positionless basketball approach and that they might have 2 pg (maybe 2) sets. I also think it might be kind of cool if Frank and Mudiay can speak on the court in French giving them some form of strategic advantage
Chandler wrote:Knixkik wrote:fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:we really fucked up by going with an out of shape guy with a bum ankle instead of Elfrid Payton. When you buy the most heavily discounted item on the sale rack it usually it is a steaming pile of shitI like the Mudiay trade. Not getting Payton for that price is questionable. I thought Perry drafted him so Im surprised we didnt jump on that. Maybe they just didnt want to resign him. I dont know.Seems like they probably still view Ntilikina as the PG of the future, and Mudiay gives them one additional bridge gap year to keep the pressure off him to start.
My own sense is this is part of a positionless basketball approach and that they might have 2 pg (maybe 2) sets. I also think it might be kind of cool if Frank and Mudiay can speak on the court in French giving them some form of strategic advantage
I agree about positionless basketball. I think we could end up seeing a starting lineup of Mudiay, Ntilikina, and Hardaway next year, and figuring it out from there.
Tanking sucks but tanking is the only purist way to go.
Hey, we only ended up giving away a 2nd round pick when getting a former first round draft pick. Had to fill that tremendous void left by the 9 Million Dollar Baker.
Mudiay may not be athletic, but he certainly looks more intimidating than Frankie does every time they double team him.
Maybe this franchise just needs to redefine winning. Keeping 1st round picks when trading equals big win!
Worked for Phil!
For all intents and purposes, all Mudiay cost us was downgrading our 2nd round pick a few spots. And they did us a favor by taking McDermott off our hands to give [insert name here] more PT.
technomaster wrote:Elfrid Payton is awesome. But he would have cost us a 2nd round pick. Boy, a lottery pick for a 2nd round pick, wow! I've already stated this before, big Payton fan here. We could potentially get him as a FA.For all intents and purposes, all Mudiay cost us was downgrading our 2nd round pick a few spots. And they did us a favor by taking McDermott off our hands to give [insert name here] more PT.
I agree with your general sentiment. Two things tho, the second round pick isn't a swap, we gave it to Dallas. It was the worse out of our two picks, but still....Second, Orlando wanted us to throw in Frank initially. Perry said "B!tch please, and started talking to Denver. Orlando settled on a second round pick after they realized they shot themselves in the foot.
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here are Elfrid's stats in 3 games with the Suns:
20.3ppg, 8.7apg, 8.3rpg, 57%fg, 83%ft, 35mpg. This includes 1 triple double.
All that production for the cost of a 2nd round pick, albeit likely a higher one than the Knicks could have offered.
With stats like these, he'd have put the Knicks in a position to win games.
(For what it's worth, the Suns lost all 3. :))
I suppose I'll remain hopeful - I think Mudiay has similar tools compared to Payton. Payton became a really good prospect during his junior year in college where he really amped up his game. Payton was 20-21 during that year, relatively young compared to some of his counterparts.
Mudiay is turning 22 in March in what amounts to his 4th post-high school season (1 in China, 3 in the NBA).
(for what it's worth, Payton is an RFA at the end of the season...)
technomaster wrote:I feel a little sick saying this, but:here are Elfrid's stats in 3 games with the Suns:
20.3ppg, 8.7apg, 8.3rpg, 57%fg, 83%ft, 35mpg. This includes 1 triple double.All that production for the cost of a 2nd round pick, albeit likely a higher one than the Knicks could have offered.
With stats like these, he'd have put the Knicks in a position to win games.
(For what it's worth, the Suns lost all 3. :))
I suppose I'll remain hopeful - I think Mudiay has similar tools compared to Payton. Payton became a really good prospect during his junior year in college where he really amped up his game. Payton was 20-21 during that year, relatively young compared to some of his counterparts.
Mudiay is turning 22 in March in what amounts to his 4th post-high school season (1 in China, 3 in the NBA).
(for what it's worth, Payton is an RFA at the end of the season...)
why? I think everyone here would agree Payton is a good player and superior to Mudiay. Its a timing thing. What do you want to pay Payton? Lets say he puts up those #s here. When some team offers him 4 years $90mm do you match?
There is a commitment to Payton we dont have with Mudiay. I think its a basic timeline thing. From a pure BB standpoint we should have gotten Payton. No brainer. More to it though....
fishmike wrote:technomaster wrote:I feel a little sick saying this, but:here are Elfrid's stats in 3 games with the Suns:
20.3ppg, 8.7apg, 8.3rpg, 57%fg, 83%ft, 35mpg. This includes 1 triple double.All that production for the cost of a 2nd round pick, albeit likely a higher one than the Knicks could have offered.
With stats like these, he'd have put the Knicks in a position to win games.
(For what it's worth, the Suns lost all 3. :))
I suppose I'll remain hopeful - I think Mudiay has similar tools compared to Payton. Payton became a really good prospect during his junior year in college where he really amped up his game. Payton was 20-21 during that year, relatively young compared to some of his counterparts.
Mudiay is turning 22 in March in what amounts to his 4th post-high school season (1 in China, 3 in the NBA).
(for what it's worth, Payton is an RFA at the end of the season...)
why? I think everyone here would agree Payton is a good player and superior to Mudiay. Its a timing thing. What do you want to pay Payton? Lets say he puts up those #s here. When some team offers him 4 years $90mm do you match?There is a commitment to Payton we dont have with Mudiay. I think its a basic timeline thing. From a pure BB standpoint we should have gotten Payton. No brainer. More to it though....
Agreed. The Suns had no solid young pg, so they are probably willing to pay Payton. We have Frank and Trey Burke, so there was no reason to get Payton and have to pay him this summer, especially when Mudiay or Frank may still turn out to be better long term prospects.
TheGame wrote:fishmike wrote:technomaster wrote:I feel a little sick saying this, but:here are Elfrid's stats in 3 games with the Suns:
20.3ppg, 8.7apg, 8.3rpg, 57%fg, 83%ft, 35mpg. This includes 1 triple double.All that production for the cost of a 2nd round pick, albeit likely a higher one than the Knicks could have offered.
With stats like these, he'd have put the Knicks in a position to win games.
(For what it's worth, the Suns lost all 3. :))
I suppose I'll remain hopeful - I think Mudiay has similar tools compared to Payton. Payton became a really good prospect during his junior year in college where he really amped up his game. Payton was 20-21 during that year, relatively young compared to some of his counterparts.
Mudiay is turning 22 in March in what amounts to his 4th post-high school season (1 in China, 3 in the NBA).
(for what it's worth, Payton is an RFA at the end of the season...)
why? I think everyone here would agree Payton is a good player and superior to Mudiay. Its a timing thing. What do you want to pay Payton? Lets say he puts up those #s here. When some team offers him 4 years $90mm do you match?There is a commitment to Payton we dont have with Mudiay. I think its a basic timeline thing. From a pure BB standpoint we should have gotten Payton. No brainer. More to it though....
Agreed. The Suns had no solid young pg, so they are probably willing to pay Payton. We have Frank and Trey Burke, so there was no reason to get Payton and have to pay him this summer, especially when Mudiay or Frank may still turn out to be better long term prospects.
The other thing is bad teams produce good looking players because someone has to score.
For me, we need to be focused on 2-4 years out, and that is how we have to build.
Noah is a cap killer, and until he is closer to being gone, it's hard to make some of these moves.
franco12 wrote:some of what moves?TheGame wrote:fishmike wrote:technomaster wrote:I feel a little sick saying this, but:here are Elfrid's stats in 3 games with the Suns:
20.3ppg, 8.7apg, 8.3rpg, 57%fg, 83%ft, 35mpg. This includes 1 triple double.All that production for the cost of a 2nd round pick, albeit likely a higher one than the Knicks could have offered.
With stats like these, he'd have put the Knicks in a position to win games.
(For what it's worth, the Suns lost all 3. :))
I suppose I'll remain hopeful - I think Mudiay has similar tools compared to Payton. Payton became a really good prospect during his junior year in college where he really amped up his game. Payton was 20-21 during that year, relatively young compared to some of his counterparts.
Mudiay is turning 22 in March in what amounts to his 4th post-high school season (1 in China, 3 in the NBA).
(for what it's worth, Payton is an RFA at the end of the season...)
why? I think everyone here would agree Payton is a good player and superior to Mudiay. Its a timing thing. What do you want to pay Payton? Lets say he puts up those #s here. When some team offers him 4 years $90mm do you match?There is a commitment to Payton we dont have with Mudiay. I think its a basic timeline thing. From a pure BB standpoint we should have gotten Payton. No brainer. More to it though....
Agreed. The Suns had no solid young pg, so they are probably willing to pay Payton. We have Frank and Trey Burke, so there was no reason to get Payton and have to pay him this summer, especially when Mudiay or Frank may still turn out to be better long term prospects.
The other thing is bad teams produce good looking players because someone has to score.
For me, we need to be focused on 2-4 years out, and that is how we have to build.
Noah is a cap killer, and until he is closer to being gone, it's hard to make some of these moves.
fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:some of what moves?TheGame wrote:fishmike wrote:technomaster wrote:I feel a little sick saying this, but:here are Elfrid's stats in 3 games with the Suns:
20.3ppg, 8.7apg, 8.3rpg, 57%fg, 83%ft, 35mpg. This includes 1 triple double.All that production for the cost of a 2nd round pick, albeit likely a higher one than the Knicks could have offered.
With stats like these, he'd have put the Knicks in a position to win games.
(For what it's worth, the Suns lost all 3. :))
I suppose I'll remain hopeful - I think Mudiay has similar tools compared to Payton. Payton became a really good prospect during his junior year in college where he really amped up his game. Payton was 20-21 during that year, relatively young compared to some of his counterparts.
Mudiay is turning 22 in March in what amounts to his 4th post-high school season (1 in China, 3 in the NBA).
(for what it's worth, Payton is an RFA at the end of the season...)
why? I think everyone here would agree Payton is a good player and superior to Mudiay. Its a timing thing. What do you want to pay Payton? Lets say he puts up those #s here. When some team offers him 4 years $90mm do you match?There is a commitment to Payton we dont have with Mudiay. I think its a basic timeline thing. From a pure BB standpoint we should have gotten Payton. No brainer. More to it though....
Agreed. The Suns had no solid young pg, so they are probably willing to pay Payton. We have Frank and Trey Burke, so there was no reason to get Payton and have to pay him this summer, especially when Mudiay or Frank may still turn out to be better long term prospects.
The other thing is bad teams produce good looking players because someone has to score.
For me, we need to be focused on 2-4 years out, and that is how we have to build.
Noah is a cap killer, and until he is closer to being gone, it's hard to make some of these moves.
taking a flyer on a player like Payton (or Isaiah Thomas) that might be due a big pay day.