Knicks · Perfect head coach! (page 2)

For what it's worth, NBA-coach Brad Stevens's teams didn't start winning until they got Isaiah Thomas... and they took it to the next level when they added Al Horford. Note that last year's team was "only" a 53 win team. They're better this year in spite of all the new faces. Maybe Kyrie is really THAT MUCH more impactful than IT. This team is winning at nearly a 70% clip, vs last year's 65%.

I'm not sure if Mark Jackson or Doc Rivers would have notably different results compared to Hornacek - maybe on last year's roster it would have made a difference while working with veterans. Rivers brings championship pedigree, but it's been a long time since's he's coached a team devoid of talent.

What we need with this super young roster is someone who can develop the players and help them reach new heights.

Hornacek: say what you want - most of his players are setting new career milestones (zeroing in on the young veterans) - isn't that what you want out of a coach - someone who brings the best out of the players?

Vmart wrote:The next coach of the Knicks should be Bobby Hurley. Need a coach that can deal with young players and coach them up. Son of a successful coach and was coached by coach K. In the mold of a Brad Stevens with a lot of fire.

Bobby Hurley was insane. Three final fours, two chips, the kid was intense.
How many starting PG's have that on a resume? That intensity and physical condition is why he is still alive today.
Im not sure if not hurt he could have had much of an nba career but he was the kind of kid you don't bet against.
Love or hate that Duke team but big respect for them.
I don't know if Hurley can coach or not (recruiting is not easy!) but he is old school Ny/NJ in the mold of Billy Donovan.
Not sure about him at the pro level as a coach but I can see why he would be appealing .

PHil Weber was an assistant with Pelicans last year and now head coach the Indian Natinoal Team. Would have thought he might be a head coach one day. Im not advocating for him, just talking points.....

Nalod wrote:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/outerlink....
Kind of bullshyt article knick fans love!
Got all the ingredients: Ex knick, has won before and would score a great contract! This is Larry, MDA and name that coach all over!

Do you know who the biggest surprise was? Riles!!! We all thought “showtime East” but he did the opposite! That’s why he succeeded! He did not bring a formula, he coached to what we had.

He will trade Trey and Frank and KP for Austin Rivers. Yeah!!

Yeah, I like Doc and Woodson is elite No 2 yet not at the price of a pick which we need desperately. Also, if Perry is going a fine job, I wouldn’t want Doc lookin for his job in 2 years.

If Dolan didn’t push for Melo and allowed D’antoni to play his style.. we’d have the perfect coach for todays nba. Obviously missing out on Curry hurt but we were on the right track.
Unfortunately asshole face ruined it.

TripleThreat wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I would really like to find our own brad Stevens.

The Knicks did. Kenny Atkinson. Tremendous reputation around the league, even before he got his shot in NJ. But he was very close to Jeremy Lin and did a lot of work with Lin to help develop his skill set. Well Melo wasn't having any of that. If you were part of Linsanity in any way ( Lin, Pringles, Atkinson, etc) then you had to go.

Should have kept Pringles. Alternatively, if Pringles left, should have kept Atkinson. But Melo and Leon Rose wanted a CAA guy ( Woodson) in the mix instead.

The problem will always be the same. Until the league converts to widespread use of non guaranteed contracts and a hard cap, all NBA coaches are essentially powerless. Erik Spolestra is probably hands down the best coach in the NBA right now. And LeBron James basically tried in 26 different directions to get him fired. What does that say about how the NBA works?

Pringles said something very honest and interesting in an interview once. He said he got a reputation as a "players coach" but he pointed out, if I wanted Player X or Player Y to do this and not that, how could he actually enforce that? It's easier to fire the coach than get rid of players on big ugly contracts.

Lots of great coaches in college who WANT NOTHING to do with the NBA. Good money, power, influence, status at the college level. Or go to the NBA and have Kobe Bryant spit in your face and gut you in the press. No thanks.

Atkinson is in BKN because GM was given a long term deal after owners agreed to long term program to restore talent after the King disaster. That moment of long term was the start of their “culture”.
Atkinson I think was in ATL, and thus thru Budenhauser (SP) who was under POP. So the Spurs “Tree” was in ATL. Now BKN has its own “Roots” to build on. Phil could not hire ATkinson as it was not in his tree. Phil was not able to effectively do this because as great a coach as he was, he did not possess a nurturing talent. He had his guys, but they are not able to sustain outside his sphere as coach. Thus, he tried to coach knicks by proxy and failed.
Can’t say it was not a good idea, but in hindsight not achievable due to his personality.

knicks1248 wrote:The best coach for this organization is MARK JACKSON..Doc already said thibs was more responsible for Boston success,and he hasn't done a a great job In L A

mark jackson sucks...have seen him coach in person. no thanks

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The best coach for this organization is MARK JACKSON..Doc already said thibs was more responsible for Boston success,and he hasn't done a a great job In L A

mark jackson sucks...have seen him coach in person. no thanks

There's a reason he is an analyst and not a coach

TLover wrote:If Dolan didn’t push for Melo and allowed D’antoni to play his style.. we’d have the perfect coach for todays nba. Obviously missing out on Curry hurt but we were on the right track.
Unfortunately asshole face ruined it.

GAllo played 135 games over the next 4 seasons. Amare was done by the playoffs that first year. Felton, Wilson, Fields and Moz were leading D'Antoni to the promised land?

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

TLover wrote:If Dolan didn’t push for Melo and allowed D’antoni to play his style.. we’d have the perfect coach for todays nba. Obviously missing out on Curry hurt but we were on the right track.
Unfortunately asshole face ruined it.

GAllo played 135 games over the next 4 seasons. Amare was done by the playoffs that first year. Felton, Wilson, Fields and Moz were leading D'Antoni to the promised land?

That's not the point and is never the point in NBA team building/rebuilding.

Take the Jerian Grant example. Grant did NOT pan out as everyone hoped. He just didn't. However some use that as justification for trading him and Robin Lopez for Derrick Rose. The Knicks traded 6 years of cost control ( Lopez with three more years on a value contract, and three more years of Grant's rookie deal) for an expiring veteran player with an injury history. Who couldn't shoot the three ball nor play defense. With legal troubles. Who chewed up a massive amount of cap space.

Just because Grant did not pan out doesn't mean it was a good decision.

You make the best MARKET BASED DECISION given the current time and place. Sometimes it pans out, sometimes it does not, but the working principle is more often than not, the decision will turn in your favor. You are not banking on absolutes, you are banking on slim opportunity versus NO OPPORTUNITY AT ALL.

Just because Gallo, Felton, Moz and WC did not pan out as hoped, doesn't mean the trade for Melo was a good decision. Donnie Walsh originally offered Wilson Chandler and a single 1st round pick. He understood the Nuggets had no leverage.

It would not have been popular in some ways, but the path was very clear for the Knicks. Keep Pringles and Lin and trade Melo right after Linsanity. Win or lose, the team would have played team basketball and played it the right way. Win or lose, field a team you can be proud of in how they conduct themselves on the court. That treat wearing a Knicks jersey with pride and honor. Melo just wanted to sell more stupid hats or gym memberships and have his wife end up on some crappy CBS show.

Melo, via a lack of real effort on the court, spit in the face of every Knicks fan out there. And bizarrely some defend him to no end and lap up any crumbs he leaves behind. Play with max effort. How hard is that?

tLin wanted to get paid. He sat out of the playoffs and playing for the select team because he was going to be a free agent. He also fired his agent and his new agent made it clear that money was a priority over signing with the Knicks. A lot of water under the bridge but Lin got a deal he never could live up to. The Knicks were also locked into a hobbled Amare. Assuming Fields wouldn't lose his shot, Moz wouldn't end up a 3rd stringer, Felton wouldn't get fat, and the mayor wouldn't have hip and injury problems is quite a stretch when all of those things happened. The other thing that happened was the Knicks went 18-6 after Dantoni resigned and won 54 games the next year. If you want to pile on Mills for how badly he ran things the first time he was in charge I am all in. But please don't ask me to think if things were different guys that couldn't get on the court because of injuries, were cap anchors, or played so poorly their careers ended or picks needed to be moved with them because their contracts were so bad would have turned the Knicks around.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The best coach for this organization is MARK JACKSON..Doc already said thibs was more responsible for Boston success,and he hasn't done a a great job In L A

mark jackson sucks...have seen him coach in person. no thanks

There's a reason he is an analyst and not a coach

well at this point im looking for anybody that's better than rambis and JH, clearly they are not the answer under these circumstances

knicks1248 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The best coach for this organization is MARK JACKSON..Doc already said thibs was more responsible for Boston success,and he hasn't done a a great job In L A

mark jackson sucks...have seen him coach in person. no thanks

There's a reason he is an analyst and not a coach

well at this point im looking for anybody that's better than rambis and JH, clearly they are not the answer under these circumstances

Wouldnt mind Jackson as an asst. to mentor the guards. But I doubt there is a coach out there (except maybe JVG) where he would agree to that situation. He has a more old school approach to offense, at least Hornacek is trying to open things up.

knicks1248 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The best coach for this organization is MARK JACKSON..Doc already said thibs was more responsible for Boston success,and he hasn't done a a great job In L A

mark jackson sucks...have seen him coach in person. no thanks

There's a reason he is an analyst and not a coach

well at this point im looking for anybody that's better than rambis and JH, clearly they are not the answer under these circumstances

clearly jh is already way better than mark jackson.

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The best coach for this organization is MARK JACKSON..Doc already said thibs was more responsible for Boston success,and he hasn't done a a great job In L A

mark jackson sucks...have seen him coach in person. no thanks

There's a reason he is an analyst and not a coach

well at this point im looking for anybody that's better than rambis and JH, clearly they are not the answer under these circumstances

clearly jh is already way better than mark jackson.

oh really, what exactly has JH don

JH- 201 losses- 156 wins good for 43% over 4/ 1/2 yrs

MJ- 109-123 52% over 3yrs

Mark jackson won 23 games in first season, 47 his next, 51 after that

JH won 48 games, then 39, then 14 with the suns, and got fired

and he's trending downward with the knicks as well, and his players are not mentally tough.

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The best coach for this organization is MARK JACKSON..Doc already said thibs was more responsible for Boston success,and he hasn't done a a great job In L A

mark jackson sucks...have seen him coach in person. no thanks

There's a reason he is an analyst and not a coach

well at this point im looking for anybody that's better than rambis and JH, clearly they are not the answer under these circumstances

clearly jh is already way better than mark jackson.

oh really, what exactly has JH don

JH- 201 losses- 156 wins good for 43% over 4/ 1/2 yrs

MJ- 109-123 52% over 3yrs

Mark jackson won 23 games in first season, 47 his next, 51 after that

JH won 48 games, then 39, then 14 with the suns, and got fired

and he's trending downward with the knicks as well, and his players are not mentally tough.

Apples and Oranges. GSW roster and ownership vs. PHX and roster. Not a constant so you can't compare.
Why? Roster construction! Management ramifications as well.
Record aside, one has to address the reasons why Jax was dismissed. Not known? Has he changed his values to what might be the root cause of his problems in GSW?
Or are you just interested in making skewered points in an attempt to win debates?

How has doc rivers lost the clippers? They are close to a playoff spot games over 500 despite little to no star talent.

What were the clippers before rivers got there? He hasn't exactly sucked out there. And he didn't suck in Boston. Guy won. A lot.

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The best coach for this organization is MARK JACKSON..Doc already said thibs was more responsible for Boston success,and he hasn't done a a great job In L A

mark jackson sucks...have seen him coach in person. no thanks

There's a reason he is an analyst and not a coach

well at this point im looking for anybody that's better than rambis and JH, clearly they are not the answer under these circumstances

clearly jh is already way better than mark jackson.

oh really, what exactly has JH don

JH- 201 losses- 156 wins good for 43% over 4/ 1/2 yrs

MJ- 109-123 52% over 3yrs

Mark jackson won 23 games in first season, 47 his next, 51 after that

JH won 48 games, then 39, then 14 with the suns, and got fired

and he's trending downward with the knicks as well, and his players are not mentally tough.

Lol 😂 I quit. Look at their roster over those 3 years vs ours

TLover wrote:If Dolan didn’t push for Melo and allowed D’antoni to play his style.. we’d have the perfect coach for todays nba. Obviously missing out on Curry hurt but we were on the right track.
Unfortunately asshole face ruined it.

You have to wonder if Walsh might of landed us Harden from OKC had we not blown our assets on Melo

Jmpasq wrote:

TLover wrote:If Dolan didn’t push for Melo and allowed D’antoni to play his style.. we’d have the perfect coach for todays nba. Obviously missing out on Curry hurt but we were on the right track.
Unfortunately asshole face ruined it.

You have to wonder if Walsh might of landed us Harden from OKC had we not blown our assets on Melo

Walsh traded the Knicks rookie lottery pick, and the 2012(?) first round pick to get Jared Jeffries contract off the books. He also signed Amare to a deal that no one else was offering and could not be insured because Amare's knees were so bad. I just can't see him beating out Darryl Morey on the Harden deal.

Why do most of you still think Walsh was the facilitator of the Melo deal?
Walsh did not trade for melo, it was Dolan.
Walsh in all his years in Indy never made a move like we did with Amare. Never.
Do any of you now think, even in hindsight with all you know that Walsh would initialize a $100 million dollar deal over 5 years for a player PHX knew was defective?
Not insured? We knew he too was defective. What GM in their right mind would do this, let alone an owner? What owner takes that on?
Unless its what he wants.

Nalod wrote:Why do most of you still think Walsh was the facilitator of the Melo deal?
Walsh did not trade for melo, it was Dolan.
Walsh in all his years in Indy never made a move like we did with Amare. Never.
Do any of you now think, even in hindsight with all you know that Walsh would initialize a $100 million dollar deal over 5 years for a player PHX knew was defective?
Not insured? We knew he too was defective. What GM in their right mind would do this, let alone an owner? What owner takes that on?
Unless its what he wants.

This is the first suggestion I have heard that Walsh didn't do the Amare deal. If you trade away lottery picks, and first round picks to clear cap space to sign Lebron and possibly a second max player, you need to come away with something for all of those assets. I think the Amare deal was all Walsh. I also believe he has said that the Melo deal was on him but it was awhile ago. His goal was to get two superstars.