Knicks · KOQ in a nutshell (page 1)

martin @ 3/3/2018 11:59 AM
IMO reason KOQ will never be a starter or important big man on a playoff team (even off bench). Same reason I don’t offer him a long term contract (unless it’s at $5m per)

Constantly sits in paint on D, commits way too many illegal screens, etc

Knixkik @ 3/3/2018 1:35 PM
The illegal screens really hurt. I'll keep him if he comes back at an incredible discount though because he's a quality backup and is appreciated here for what he brings. He's a knick in the way that Kurt Thomas was.
EnySpree @ 3/3/2018 3:57 PM
martin wrote:IMO reason KOQ will never be a starter or important big man on a playoff team (even off bench). Same reason I don’t offer him a long term contract (unless it’s at $5m per)

Constantly sits in paint on D, commits way too many illegal screens, etc

His job is to protect the paint. Looks like he got caught on a screen here. That's why he yelled fuck....

KOQ is a center. He does his job well. His flaw is sometimes he gets crazy and then gets bad fouls or turnovers being over aggressive. I can live with that because he does way more good than bad.

martin @ 3/3/2018 4:05 PM
EnySpree wrote:
martin wrote:IMO reason KOQ will never be a starter or important big man on a playoff team (even off bench). Same reason I don’t offer him a long term contract (unless it’s at $5m per)

Constantly sits in paint on D, commits way too many illegal screens, etc

His job is to protect the paint. Looks like he got caught on a screen here. That's why he yelled fuck....

KOQ is a center. He does his job well. His flaw is sometimes he gets crazy and then gets bad fouls or turnovers being over aggressive. I can live with that because he does way more good than bad.

What are you talking about? In a PnR situation, his job is not to back off and play defense in no man's land.

And KOQ does this repeatedly.

And he fouls so much and makes so many mental he can't stay in the game and it's why his minutes are limited on a bad team.

You wanna build a playoff team or a team of a bunch of second rate players? KOQ is second rate. At best.

TheGame @ 3/3/2018 9:05 PM
It's funny. Even Frank is looking at him like, "WTF, why didnt you step up and challenge the shot while I am over here covering your man."

That being said, I like KOQ and would bring him back for $7-$9 million per year. He will be a cheaper option that Kanter and I think he is a better defender.

EnySpree @ 3/3/2018 10:48 PM
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
martin wrote:IMO reason KOQ will never be a starter or important big man on a playoff team (even off bench). Same reason I don’t offer him a long term contract (unless it’s at $5m per)

Constantly sits in paint on D, commits way too many illegal screens, etc

His job is to protect the paint. Looks like he got caught on a screen here. That's why he yelled fuck....

KOQ is a center. He does his job well. His flaw is sometimes he gets crazy and then gets bad fouls or turnovers being over aggressive. I can live with that because he does way more good than bad.

What are you talking about? In a PnR situation, his job is not to back off and play defense in no man's land.

And KOQ does this repeatedly.

And he fouls so much and makes so many mental he can't stay in the game and it's why his minutes are limited on a bad team.

You wanna build a playoff team or a team of a bunch of second rate players? KOQ is second rate. At best.

I believe I said he got caught on a screen... that means he got caught back pedaling.... he knew he fucked up. Thats why he yelled fuck. He does get caught there alot. Never said he didn't... but I'm not gonna exaggerate it. I also said that he gets caught making fouls and turnovers because he can get too aggressive.... I did say that right? Aren't we saying the same thing about KOQ? He might be a second rate player... but that makes him a solid back up. His rebounding and block numbers are still top notch. He's still a good passer and decent 18 foot shooter. Hardly terrible.

martin @ 3/4/2018 12:27 AM
EnySpree wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
martin wrote:IMO reason KOQ will never be a starter or important big man on a playoff team (even off bench). Same reason I don’t offer him a long term contract (unless it’s at $5m per)

Constantly sits in paint on D, commits way too many illegal screens, etc

His job is to protect the paint. Looks like he got caught on a screen here. That's why he yelled fuck....

KOQ is a center. He does his job well. His flaw is sometimes he gets crazy and then gets bad fouls or turnovers being over aggressive. I can live with that because he does way more good than bad.

What are you talking about? In a PnR situation, his job is not to back off and play defense in no man's land.

And KOQ does this repeatedly.

And he fouls so much and makes so many mental he can't stay in the game and it's why his minutes are limited on a bad team.

You wanna build a playoff team or a team of a bunch of second rate players? KOQ is second rate. At best.

I believe I said he got caught on a screen... that means he got caught back pedaling.... he knew he fucked up. Thats why he yelled fuck. He does get caught there alot. Never said he didn't... but I'm not gonna exaggerate it. I also said that he gets caught making fouls and turnovers because he can get too aggressive.... I did say that right? Aren't we saying the same thing about KOQ? He might be a second rate player... but that makes him a solid back up. His rebounding and block numbers are still top notch. He's still a good passer and decent 18 foot shooter. Hardly terrible.

KOQ gets "caught" defending the paint a lot. By himself. Away from all the offensive players. Every Game. Multiple times a game. In this particular instance, DeAndre Jordan was near the 3point line. And KOQ decided it was a good time to back the fuck up. Cause DeAndre may have been a threat even though Frank picked him off.

I'm gonna get all emotional and let everyone know that KOQ sucks. Let me know if I should create some threads on that

EnySpree @ 3/4/2018 5:50 AM
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
martin wrote:IMO reason KOQ will never be a starter or important big man on a playoff team (even off bench). Same reason I don’t offer him a long term contract (unless it’s at $5m per)

Constantly sits in paint on D, commits way too many illegal screens, etc

His job is to protect the paint. Looks like he got caught on a screen here. That's why he yelled fuck....

KOQ is a center. He does his job well. His flaw is sometimes he gets crazy and then gets bad fouls or turnovers being over aggressive. I can live with that because he does way more good than bad.

What are you talking about? In a PnR situation, his job is not to back off and play defense in no man's land.

And KOQ does this repeatedly.

And he fouls so much and makes so many mental he can't stay in the game and it's why his minutes are limited on a bad team.

You wanna build a playoff team or a team of a bunch of second rate players? KOQ is second rate. At best.

I believe I said he got caught on a screen... that means he got caught back pedaling.... he knew he fucked up. Thats why he yelled fuck. He does get caught there alot. Never said he didn't... but I'm not gonna exaggerate it. I also said that he gets caught making fouls and turnovers because he can get too aggressive.... I did say that right? Aren't we saying the same thing about KOQ? He might be a second rate player... but that makes him a solid back up. His rebounding and block numbers are still top notch. He's still a good passer and decent 18 foot shooter. Hardly terrible.

KOQ gets "caught" defending the paint a lot. By himself. Away from all the offensive players. Every Game. Multiple times a game. In this particular instance, DeAndre Jordan was near the 3point line. And KOQ decided it was a good time to back the fuck up. Cause DeAndre may have been a threat even though Frank picked him off.

I'm gonna get all emotional and let everyone know that KOQ sucks. Let me know if I should create some threads on that

You're referring to the Frank threads... I was going on about him because there was something to talk about. Since Mudiay and Burke came on together, Frank has emerged as a 2 guard threat like I said he would. Nothing emotional going on there. Just a poster that knows what he's talking about because he knows what he's looking at

Bonn1997 @ 3/4/2018 7:11 AM
martin wrote:IMO reason KOQ will never be a starter or important big man on a playoff team (even off bench). Same reason I don’t offer him a long term contract (unless it’s at $5m per)

Constantly sits in paint on D, commits way too many illegal screens, etc


How many guys do we have that right now would get significant minutes on a strong playoff team?! Probably just one injured guy. That's too high a standard for us to have.
EnySpree @ 3/4/2018 8:04 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
martin wrote:IMO reason KOQ will never be a starter or important big man on a playoff team (even off bench). Same reason I don’t offer him a long term contract (unless it’s at $5m per)

Constantly sits in paint on D, commits way too many illegal screens, etc


How many guys do we have that right now would get significant minutes on a strong playoff team?! Probably just one injured guy. That's too high a standard for us to have.

Instead of crying about it, who do you like thats available to us next season? KOQ is definately at a crossroads this summer. He's not a complete bum so let's not exaggerate his flaws. If you don't like him fine... but let's talk about who we can bring in that is better fit in your opinions

Bonn1997 @ 3/4/2018 9:05 AM
EnySpree wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
martin wrote:IMO reason KOQ will never be a starter or important big man on a playoff team (even off bench). Same reason I don’t offer him a long term contract (unless it’s at $5m per)

Constantly sits in paint on D, commits way too many illegal screens, etc


How many guys do we have that right now would get significant minutes on a strong playoff team?! Probably just one injured guy. That's too high a standard for us to have.

Instead of crying about it, who do you like thats available to us next season? KOQ is definately at a crossroads this summer. He's not a complete bum so let's not exaggerate his flaws. If you don't like him fine... but let's talk about who we can bring in that is better fit in your opinions


I was criticizing Martin's view. I think KOQ could be a backup on plenty of good teams. I don't think GSW and HOU were inquiring about him just to sit him on the bench.
Martin's focusing on the negative. Fine but there aren't many Cs in the league who can give you 22 points (14 from the field, 8 from assists) per 36 min with good rebounding and blocks.
EnySpree @ 3/4/2018 10:15 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
martin wrote:IMO reason KOQ will never be a starter or important big man on a playoff team (even off bench). Same reason I don’t offer him a long term contract (unless it’s at $5m per)

Constantly sits in paint on D, commits way too many illegal screens, etc


How many guys do we have that right now would get significant minutes on a strong playoff team?! Probably just one injured guy. That's too high a standard for us to have.

Instead of crying about it, who do you like thats available to us next season? KOQ is definately at a crossroads this summer. He's not a complete bum so let's not exaggerate his flaws. If you don't like him fine... but let's talk about who we can bring in that is better fit in your opinions


I was criticizing Martin's view. I think KOQ could be a backup on plenty of good teams. I don't think GSW and HOU were inquiring about him just to sit him on the bench.
Martin's focusing on the negative. Fine but there aren't many Cs in the league who can give you 22 points (14 from the field, 8 from assists) per 36 min with good rebounding and blocks.

I know I'm just trying not to further piss off the all-father

GustavBahler @ 3/4/2018 10:25 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
martin wrote:IMO reason KOQ will never be a starter or important big man on a playoff team (even off bench). Same reason I don’t offer him a long term contract (unless it’s at $5m per)

Constantly sits in paint on D, commits way too many illegal screens, etc


How many guys do we have that right now would get significant minutes on a strong playoff team?! Probably just one injured guy. That's too high a standard for us to have.

Instead of crying about it, who do you like thats available to us next season? KOQ is definately at a crossroads this summer. He's not a complete bum so let's not exaggerate his flaws. If you don't like him fine... but let's talk about who we can bring in that is better fit in your opinions


I was criticizing Martin's view. I think KOQ could be a backup on plenty of good teams. I don't think GSW and HOU were inquiring about him just to sit him on the bench.
Martin's focusing on the negative. Fine but there aren't many Cs in the league who can give you 22 points (14 from the field, 8 from assists) per 36 min with good rebounding and blocks.

Not going to find the perfect two way center unless you draft him, or pay through the nose for one. Its not center where we need help. We've had straight up dog shit backcourts for years. Whatever issues there are at the 5 wont seem nearly as bad when we get the backcourt straightened out.

Knixkik @ 3/4/2018 1:01 PM
TheGame wrote:It's funny. Even Frank is looking at him like, "WTF, why didnt you step up and challenge the shot while I am over here covering your man."

That being said, I like KOQ and would bring him back for $7-$9 million per year. He will be a cheaper option that Kanter and I think he is a better defender.

7-9 mil would be an overpay in this market for a backup center.

martin @ 3/4/2018 2:32 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
martin wrote:IMO reason KOQ will never be a starter or important big man on a playoff team (even off bench). Same reason I don’t offer him a long term contract (unless it’s at $5m per)

Constantly sits in paint on D, commits way too many illegal screens, etc


How many guys do we have that right now would get significant minutes on a strong playoff team?! Probably just one injured guy. That's too high a standard for us to have.

I'm obviously talking through the lens of building a team and offering KOQ (or anybody) the next contract.

What are you talking about?

martin @ 3/4/2018 2:37 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
martin wrote:IMO reason KOQ will never be a starter or important big man on a playoff team (even off bench). Same reason I don’t offer him a long term contract (unless it’s at $5m per)

Constantly sits in paint on D, commits way too many illegal screens, etc


How many guys do we have that right now would get significant minutes on a strong playoff team?! Probably just one injured guy. That's too high a standard for us to have.

Instead of crying about it, who do you like thats available to us next season? KOQ is definately at a crossroads this summer. He's not a complete bum so let's not exaggerate his flaws. If you don't like him fine... but let's talk about who we can bring in that is better fit in your opinions


I was criticizing Martin's view. I think KOQ could be a backup on plenty of good teams. I don't think GSW and HOU were inquiring about him just to sit him on the bench.
Martin's focusing on the negative. Fine but there aren't many Cs in the league who can give you 22 points (14 from the field, 8 from assists) per 36 min with good rebounding and blocks.

KOQ will never get to 36 minutes. EVER. He makes too many mistakes - and we ain't talking about a 19 or 20 year old who is still feeling his way through the league.

And his 36 is based off of bench minutes on a team starved for good players. What's his TO and foul rate per 36? And how do those rates compare to players coming off bench for a playoff team?

BigRedDog @ 3/4/2018 2:48 PM
martin wrote:IMO reason KOQ will never be a starter or important big man on a playoff team (even off bench). Same reason I don’t offer him a long term contract (unless it’s at $5m per)

Constantly sits in paint on D, commits way too many illegal screens, etc

I agree completely. I have been one of his biggest detractors. I just don't think he is any good and so over rated on this site. Terrible defender- can't defend any starting center, can't get out to the 3 pt line, goes for every fake, makes 1-3 illegal screens per game, 1-3 boneheaded plays per game. He never runs hard and just jogs. I see Kanter sprinting down court vs KOQ just jogs and therefore his defender beats him down court for any easy basket.Not sure why he never gets called out for this by Horny. He is a backup, no way can he be a starter. KOQ is fools gold, looks good for moments or a few games but can't do it consistently .Makes some good passes but then makes some terrible passes right to the defender. No way can we give money to a back up center. Much smarter to let him leave and give the minutes to Noah.

martin @ 3/4/2018 3:00 PM
Feel like the Knicks have 2 guys who are statistically decent players in a few narrow categories but once you dig further they are net negatives.

Kanter and KOQ

EnySpree @ 3/4/2018 4:43 PM
martin wrote:Feel like the Knicks have 2 guys who are statistically decent players in a few narrow categories but once you dig further they are net negatives.

Kanter and KOQ

Anybody you looking at to be a replacement?

Bonn1997 @ 3/4/2018 5:07 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
martin wrote:IMO reason KOQ will never be a starter or important big man on a playoff team (even off bench). Same reason I don’t offer him a long term contract (unless it’s at $5m per)

Constantly sits in paint on D, commits way too many illegal screens, etc

I agree completely. I have been one of his biggest detractors. I just don't think he is any good and so over rated on this site. Terrible defender- can't defend any starting center, can't get out to the 3 pt line, goes for every fake, makes 1-3 illegal screens per game, 1-3 boneheaded plays per game. He never runs hard and just jogs. I see Kanter sprinting down court vs KOQ just jogs and therefore his defender beats him down court for any easy basket.Not sure why he never gets called out for this by Horny. He is a backup, no way can he be a starter. KOQ is fools gold, looks good for moments or a few games but can't do it consistently .Makes some good passes but then makes some terrible passes right to the defender. No way can we give money to a back up center. Much smarter to let him leave and give the minutes to Noah.


All that and he's still holding his man to below average shooting! It must be all that help defense from Jack.
martin @ 3/4/2018 5:15 PM
EnySpree wrote:
martin wrote:Feel like the Knicks have 2 guys who are statistically decent players in a few narrow categories but once you dig further they are net negatives.

Kanter and KOQ

Anybody you looking at to be a replacement?

Feel like the Knicks need to have a lot of things go right (all teams do really) over the next few years to get a deep playoff team.

Draft picks in 2018, 2019, and get rid of Lee's contract for 2019 FA market (and if not 2019 then 2020). To a lesser degree, one of Knicks many second round/GLeague guys needs to be a solid rotation piece.

I don't follow college ball enough to have any input in draft, but from a cost perspective, getting a big man under cost control for 5 years is key to also nabbing a FA guy in 2019, 2020. As soon as you resign Kanter/KOQ type this year or next for more than 1 year, you are priced out of the MAX free agent market. Zero, done, and then you need to draft one yourself, which is tough in the 8-13 range. Not impossible but tough.

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