Knicks · I n ow discount Mudiay as a prospect (page 3)
WaltLongmire wrote:We have him for another two years if we want to keep him.The trade was made...I am no fan of his, but he's still worth looking at.
What kind of injuries was he sidelined with last year? I thought he looked bigger last season.
He's also not as quick as I thought he was.Big reason I believe Denver let him go was his D...You can't have a porous perimeter with Jokic at 5...but I assume there were other reasons.
His lateral quickness and reaction time on defense is slow like a forward. His feet looks heavy. I agree that it wasn't a well thought out trade, but if anything can rebuild a PG's career it's JH's and his offensive system. So it was worth the gamble.
But just like adding Melo when we already had Amari and needed a PG...
We added Mudiay when we already had Burke, Frank and Dotson...plus THJ played a little PG in ATL...
We already had Billy, KOQ, Noah, KP....Why did we add Kanter to an already crowded position?
We continue to load up on positions we are already strong at. And don't understand when it doesn't work. Why?
Bonn1997 wrote:Mudiay isn't a prospect. He's just young.
I don’t think some understand that. There is some deluded thinking going on just because the players are young they will pan out.
Vmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Mudiay isn't a prospect. He's just young.I don’t think some understand that. There is some deluded thinking going on just because the players are young they will pan out.
Exactly, and he just wasted so many developmental minutes.
meloshouldgo wrote:what was the difference between Mudiay and Burke? Because it seems that developmental minutes given to Burke yielded some good results. Was Burke's NBA career much better than Mudiay's?Vmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Mudiay isn't a prospect. He's just young.I don’t think some understand that. There is some deluded thinking going on just because the players are young they will pan out.
Exactly, and he just wasted so many developmental minutes.
fishmike wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:what was the difference between Mudiay and Burke? Because it seems that developmental minutes given to Burke yielded some good results. Was Burke's NBA career much better than Mudiay's?Vmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Mudiay isn't a prospect. He's just young.I don’t think some understand that. There is some deluded thinking going on just because the players are young they will pan out.
Exactly, and he just wasted so many developmental minutes.
Burke said he went to Gleague to learn to be a better PG, floor general. He went there with a specific goal. Mudiay should do the same. Maybe work on his game with Frank this summer. Mudiay as the vet can spend part of the summer with Frank playing pick up games. Frank would have a teammate to go on runs with, and Mudiay can focus on getting better at drives to the rim.
Mudiay should also get the best shooting coach he can find, and spend weeks getting rid of that hitch. Mudiay might be young, but if he doesnt take his game to the next level, teams wont care.
blkexec wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:We have him for another two years if we want to keep him.The trade was made...I am no fan of his, but he's still worth looking at.
What kind of injuries was he sidelined with last year? I thought he looked bigger last season.
He's also not as quick as I thought he was.Big reason I believe Denver let him go was his D...You can't have a porous perimeter with Jokic at 5...but I assume there were other reasons.
His lateral quickness and reaction time on defense is slow like a forward. His feet looks heavy. I agree that it wasn't a well thought out trade, but if anything can rebuild a PG's career it's JH's and his offensive system. So it was worth the gamble.
But just like adding Melo when we already had Amari and needed a PG...
We added Mudiay when we already had Burke, Frank and Dotson...plus THJ played a little PG in ATL...
We already had Billy, KOQ, Noah, KP....Why did we add Kanter to an already crowded position?
We continue to load up on positions we are already strong at. And don't understand when it doesn't work. Why?
If we lose Kanter in the offseason, getting rid of Hernangomez will prove to be a rather large mistake, in my opinion. We could have traded him after we had Kanter in the fold if that is what the Knicks hope to do. Unless we have a personal understanding with Kanter that he will be resigned, I don't know why you give up Hernangomez when we did, and for what we got.
WaltLongmire wrote:blkexec wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:We have him for another two years if we want to keep him.The trade was made...I am no fan of his, but he's still worth looking at.
What kind of injuries was he sidelined with last year? I thought he looked bigger last season.
He's also not as quick as I thought he was.Big reason I believe Denver let him go was his D...You can't have a porous perimeter with Jokic at 5...but I assume there were other reasons.
His lateral quickness and reaction time on defense is slow like a forward. His feet looks heavy. I agree that it wasn't a well thought out trade, but if anything can rebuild a PG's career it's JH's and his offensive system. So it was worth the gamble.
But just like adding Melo when we already had Amari and needed a PG...
We added Mudiay when we already had Burke, Frank and Dotson...plus THJ played a little PG in ATL...
We already had Billy, KOQ, Noah, KP....Why did we add Kanter to an already crowded position?
We continue to load up on positions we are already strong at. And don't understand when it doesn't work. Why?
If we lose Kanter in the offseason, getting rid of Hernangomez will prove to be a rather large mistake, in my opinion. We could have traded him after we had Kanter in the fold if that is what the Knicks hope to do. Unless we have a personal understanding with Kanter that he will be resigned, I don't know why you give up Hernangomez when we did, and for what we got.
I think we moved Willy just to stick it to him. It was spite, not basketball.
WaltLongmire wrote:blkexec wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:We have him for another two years if we want to keep him.The trade was made...I am no fan of his, but he's still worth looking at.
What kind of injuries was he sidelined with last year? I thought he looked bigger last season.
He's also not as quick as I thought he was.Big reason I believe Denver let him go was his D...You can't have a porous perimeter with Jokic at 5...but I assume there were other reasons.
His lateral quickness and reaction time on defense is slow like a forward. His feet looks heavy. I agree that it wasn't a well thought out trade, but if anything can rebuild a PG's career it's JH's and his offensive system. So it was worth the gamble.
But just like adding Melo when we already had Amari and needed a PG...
We added Mudiay when we already had Burke, Frank and Dotson...plus THJ played a little PG in ATL...
We already had Billy, KOQ, Noah, KP....Why did we add Kanter to an already crowded position?
We continue to load up on positions we are already strong at. And don't understand when it doesn't work. Why?
If we lose Kanter in the offseason, getting rid of Hernangomez will prove to be a rather large mistake, in my opinion. We could have traded him after we had Kanter in the fold if that is what the Knicks hope to do. Unless we have a personal understanding with Kanter that he will be resigned, I don't know why you give up Hernangomez when we did, and for what we got.
Turned on the Hornets and Pacer game just as Willy entered the game. Pacers get the ball run a pick and roll. Willy just stands there jumping up and down near the foul line and just spazz's. He don't know what to do. Then I remembered.
Willy has some nice offensive attributes and I don't want to bash him entirely. Kornet is a better rim protecter and of course outside shooter.
Maybe Knicks see Isiah Hicks just as good as Willy and we got two 2nd round picks for him making him expendable for a good price. Hicks is longer and fundamentally more sound on Defense.
What we all go off on is what is in front of us. We use potential abstractly to defend our positions and the unseen largely gets ignored. "THE UNSEEN"?
That's other players and things we can't see into the future. We saw Willy at age 23 was evaluated and perhaps has potential but so does same age Hicks and Kornet. We have two picks coming on board and maybe bring in underafted as well. These are unseen opportunities. Unforseen abstract.
Willy had 14 and 8 and a good game on paper yesterday. Sabonis feasted on him and Willy's stats are often empty calories that come in junk time. Indy won 123-117 despite being outscored by 8 pts in the final period. Sound familiar?
Knicks record speaks for itself with and without Willy. Im ok moving on.
smackeddog wrote:I’d give him one more offseason- see if he can work hard enough and if it actually makes him better
Id offer him half his contract to be a free agent so I can get back a couple of million in cap.
blkexec wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:We have him for another two years if we want to keep him.The trade was made...I am no fan of his, but he's still worth looking at.
What kind of injuries was he sidelined with last year? I thought he looked bigger last season.
He's also not as quick as I thought he was.Big reason I believe Denver let him go was his D...You can't have a porous perimeter with Jokic at 5...but I assume there were other reasons.
His lateral quickness and reaction time on defense is slow like a forward. His feet looks heavy. I agree that it wasn't a well thought out trade, but if anything can rebuild a PG's career it's JH's and his offensive system. So it was worth the gamble.
But just like adding Melo when we already had Amari and needed a PG...
We added Mudiay when we already had Burke, Frank and Dotson...plus THJ played a little PG in ATL...
We already had Billy, KOQ, Noah, KP....Why did we add Kanter to an already crowded position?
We continue to load up on positions we are already strong at. And don't understand when it doesn't work. Why?
It wasn't what we could get, it was what we could get rid of. It was about to get very prickly before Melo was traded. They were so happy to see him gone, that they would have taken a bag of peanuts.
Once in great shape -- he needs to get rid of all the fading away and double pumps at the rim ---- simply take the body and finish thru contact.
I loved the trade --- now have serious...serious doubts this kid has the right stuff. He looks depressed...beaten...no confidence.....not sure what his supporting cast looks like but without a change in attitude/philosophy he is done.
Hopefully he looks at how hard Burke has worked to stick and the light bulb goes on --- such great size and at least adequate athleticism for a PG -- plus very good vision and passing instincts.
- think Frank will grow into SG
- Trey --- still feels mostly like a combo and or bench scorer
- Manny ---- could be out of league without quick turn around
Maybe next year we are looking at....
Sexton/Trey/Baker
Frank/Lee/Dotson
Timmy/T-Williams/2nd round pick
KP/Beasley/Lance
Kanter/KOQ/Kornet
Would be nice add a long defensive wing with our 2nd round pick --- don't think the Marshall kid (Frazier) will be available but someone like that to push Lance out.
Nalod wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:blkexec wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:We have him for another two years if we want to keep him.The trade was made...I am no fan of his, but he's still worth looking at.
What kind of injuries was he sidelined with last year? I thought he looked bigger last season.
He's also not as quick as I thought he was.Big reason I believe Denver let him go was his D...You can't have a porous perimeter with Jokic at 5...but I assume there were other reasons.
His lateral quickness and reaction time on defense is slow like a forward. His feet looks heavy. I agree that it wasn't a well thought out trade, but if anything can rebuild a PG's career it's JH's and his offensive system. So it was worth the gamble.
But just like adding Melo when we already had Amari and needed a PG...
We added Mudiay when we already had Burke, Frank and Dotson...plus THJ played a little PG in ATL...
We already had Billy, KOQ, Noah, KP....Why did we add Kanter to an already crowded position?
We continue to load up on positions we are already strong at. And don't understand when it doesn't work. Why?
If we lose Kanter in the offseason, getting rid of Hernangomez will prove to be a rather large mistake, in my opinion. We could have traded him after we had Kanter in the fold if that is what the Knicks hope to do. Unless we have a personal understanding with Kanter that he will be resigned, I don't know why you give up Hernangomez when we did, and for what we got.Turned on the Hornets and Pacer game just as Willy entered the game. Pacers get the ball run a pick and roll. Willy just stands there jumping up and down near the foul line and just spazz's. He don't know what to do. Then I remembered.
Willy has some nice offensive attributes and I don't want to bash him entirely. Kornet is a better rim protecter and of course outside shooter.
Maybe Knicks see Isiah Hicks just as good as Willy and we got two 2nd round picks for him making him expendable for a good price. Hicks is longer and fundamentally more sound on Defense.What we all go off on is what is in front of us. We use potential abstractly to defend our positions and the unseen largely gets ignored. "THE UNSEEN"?
That's other players and things we can't see into the future. We saw Willy at age 23 was evaluated and perhaps has potential but so does same age Hicks and Kornet. We have two picks coming on board and maybe bring in underafted as well. These are unseen opportunities. Unforseen abstract.Willy had 14 and 8 and a good game on paper yesterday. Sabonis feasted on him and Willy's stats are often empty calories that come in junk time. Indy won 123-117 despite being outscored by 8 pts in the final period. Sound familiar?
Knicks record speaks for itself with and without Willy. Im ok moving on.
Have to wonder if his D is what really caused the Knicks to not play him.
Kornet does seem to defend better than Willy, and that is not supposed to be his strong suit.
I don't know what goes on in practice, but both Kornet and Kanter are not considered defensive studs, so if Willy looked worst than them...
franco12 wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:blkexec wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:We have him for another two years if we want to keep him.The trade was made...I am no fan of his, but he's still worth looking at.
What kind of injuries was he sidelined with last year? I thought he looked bigger last season.
He's also not as quick as I thought he was.Big reason I believe Denver let him go was his D...You can't have a porous perimeter with Jokic at 5...but I assume there were other reasons.
His lateral quickness and reaction time on defense is slow like a forward. His feet looks heavy. I agree that it wasn't a well thought out trade, but if anything can rebuild a PG's career it's JH's and his offensive system. So it was worth the gamble.
But just like adding Melo when we already had Amari and needed a PG...
We added Mudiay when we already had Burke, Frank and Dotson...plus THJ played a little PG in ATL...
We already had Billy, KOQ, Noah, KP....Why did we add Kanter to an already crowded position?
We continue to load up on positions we are already strong at. And don't understand when it doesn't work. Why?
If we lose Kanter in the offseason, getting rid of Hernangomez will prove to be a rather large mistake, in my opinion. We could have traded him after we had Kanter in the fold if that is what the Knicks hope to do. Unless we have a personal understanding with Kanter that he will be resigned, I don't know why you give up Hernangomez when we did, and for what we got.I think we moved Willy just to stick it to him. It was spite, not basketball.
Wish they could have worked things out during the season...
fishmike wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:what was the difference between Mudiay and Burke? Because it seems that developmental minutes given to Burke yielded some good results. Was Burke's NBA career much better than Mudiay's?Vmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Mudiay isn't a prospect. He's just young.I don’t think some understand that. There is some deluded thinking going on just because the players are young they will pan out.
Exactly, and he just wasted so many developmental minutes.
Burke showed significant shooting improvement in year 3, more improvement in year 4, and more in year 5. Mudiay has been horrible each year. In Burke's case, the poor shooting was based on 2 seasons and about 700 shots. With Mudiay it's been 4 seasons and about 2000 shots. Not being a "prospect" doesn't mean it's impossible for the player to improve, though. Prospect means there is strong promise. I'm not saying there are no similarities between the two. But the poor play has been much more extensive with Mudiay.