Knicks · I sure hope the Knicks are watching Boston (page 1)

As the conference finals begins, one thing has become abundantly clear: the only team that has a chance to beat Golden State: The Boston Celtics. Why? Simple because they play defense.
Houston? No chance. You know the old saying a copy is never as good as the original.
The Rockets spent so much time trying to imitating Golden State and it will all be for nought as they get destroyed by the Warriors.

Boston on the other hand plays tough in your face defense that will give Golden State some trouble.
We have already seen what that defense did to Lebron and the Cavs and it is this defense that will give Golden State trouble

If it sounds that I have already picked the NBA finals participants after just one game you would be right.
Of the two series Golden State will have the easier time of it. Houston has no chance.
In the Celts Cavs series You have to give Lebron his due but IMHO Boston will also win that series.

Having said all that I still believe GS will beat the Celtics but it is really telling that the team who plays the best defense will have the best chance to beat GS
I sure hope the Knicks are watching

awe1028 wrote:As the conference finals begins, one thing has become abundantly clear: the only team that has a chance to beat Golden State: The Boston Celtics. Why? Simple because they play defense.
Houston? No chance. You know the old saying a copy is never as good as the original.
The Rockets spent so much time trying to imitating Golden State and it will all be for nought as they get destroyed by the Warriors.

Boston on the other hand plays tough in your face defense that will give Golden State some trouble.
We have already seen what that defense did to Lebron and the Cavs and it is this defense that will give Golden State trouble

If it sounds that I have already picked the NBA finals participants after just one game you would be right.
Of the two series Golden State will have the easier time of it. Houston has no chance.
In the Celts Cavs series You have to give Lebron his due but IMHO Boston will also win that series.

Having said all that I still believe GS will beat the Celtics but it is really telling that the team who plays the best defense will have the best chance to beat GS
I sure hope the Knicks are watching

Of course they value defense its all they talk about, but this front office does a lot more than talk about defense, they back up their words with action. I mean nothing screams were building a defensive juggernaut like trading for Mudiay, Kanter, and Mcdermott.

And signing Burke

Jmpasq wrote:

awe1028 wrote:As the conference finals begins, one thing has become abundantly clear: the only team that has a chance to beat Golden State: The Boston Celtics. Why? Simple because they play defense.
Houston? No chance. You know the old saying a copy is never as good as the original.
The Rockets spent so much time trying to imitating Golden State and it will all be for nought as they get destroyed by the Warriors.

Boston on the other hand plays tough in your face defense that will give Golden State some trouble.
We have already seen what that defense did to Lebron and the Cavs and it is this defense that will give Golden State trouble

If it sounds that I have already picked the NBA finals participants after just one game you would be right.
Of the two series Golden State will have the easier time of it. Houston has no chance.
In the Celts Cavs series You have to give Lebron his due but IMHO Boston will also win that series.

Having said all that I still believe GS will beat the Celtics but it is really telling that the team who plays the best defense will have the best chance to beat GS
I sure hope the Knicks are watching

Of course they value defense its all they talk about, but this front office does a lot more than talk about defense, they back up their words with action. I mean nothing screams were building a defensive juggernaut like trading for Mudiay, Kanter, and Mcdermott.

And signing Burke

Wow. Yea. Lets ignore every other move. Jmpasq yours is even better listing McD who was traded for Mudiay.
Kanter came for Melo. Thats an upgrade to your defense
Burke replaced... oh yea, we dont even have a PG.
Frank was regarded as untouchable during the trade deadline.
Lets talk about Ron Baker's stupid contract.
Troy Williams, Kicks, Kornet, Dotson, Lance, Lee and KOQ were all either brought in or go their playing time because they defend.

Fizdale is a defense first hire.

Honestly.. what are the steps you guys would take to get the Knicks better on defense and faster? Jmpasq wants to trade KP, best rim protecter in the league for draft picks... so that will improve the defense yea

awe1028... I totally agree with the premiss of your thread. I have been saying awhile the model we should be targeting are Larry Brown/Dumas Pistons. I suspect there are going to be a lot more roster changes over the next couple years but you are 100% correct and I hope Fizdale is the guy who make this happen. I like that he's getting a young squad that isnt devoid of talent and has a lot of athleticism. I dont have high expectations for next year. I think we take a solid step forward. Frank will be better. Burke looks like he can run an offense. THJ should shoot better and be healthy. Fizdale will have some guys like Dotson, Lee, Lance, Troy, Baker who are willing and able defenders... we will see, but you are right.

How do you look at this FO's moves and NOT come away with a clear direction that they are working to get younger, more athletic and better defensively? We have a LONG ways to go... its year 1 for this FO. But arent the signs pretty clear?

Good thing we have posters who can remind the knicks that the teams in the ECF's play good defense.

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

awe1028 wrote:As the conference finals begins, one thing has become abundantly clear: the only team that has a chance to beat Golden State: The Boston Celtics. Why? Simple because they play defense.
Houston? No chance. You know the old saying a copy is never as good as the original.
The Rockets spent so much time trying to imitating Golden State and it will all be for nought as they get destroyed by the Warriors.

Boston on the other hand plays tough in your face defense that will give Golden State some trouble.
We have already seen what that defense did to Lebron and the Cavs and it is this defense that will give Golden State trouble

If it sounds that I have already picked the NBA finals participants after just one game you would be right.
Of the two series Golden State will have the easier time of it. Houston has no chance.
In the Celts Cavs series You have to give Lebron his due but IMHO Boston will also win that series.

Having said all that I still believe GS will beat the Celtics but it is really telling that the team who plays the best defense will have the best chance to beat GS
I sure hope the Knicks are watching

Of course they value defense its all they talk about, but this front office does a lot more than talk about defense, they back up their words with action. I mean nothing screams were building a defensive juggernaut like trading for Mudiay, Kanter, and Mcdermott.

And signing Burke

Wow. Yea. Lets ignore every other move. Jmpasq yours is even better listing McD who was traded for Mudiay.
Kanter came for Melo. Thats an upgrade to your defense
Burke replaced... oh yea, we dont even have a PG.
Frank was regarded as untouchable during the trade deadline.
Lets talk about Ron Baker's stupid contract.
Troy Williams, Kicks, Kornet, Dotson, Lance, Lee and KOQ were all either brought in or go their playing time because they defend.

Fizdale is a defense first hire.

Honestly.. what are the steps you guys would take to get the Knicks better on defense and faster? Jmpasq wants to trade KP, best rim protecter in the league for draft picks... so that will improve the defense yea

awe1028... I totally agree with the premiss of your thread. I have been saying awhile the model we should be targeting are Larry Brown/Dumas Pistons. I suspect there are going to be a lot more roster changes over the next couple years but you are 100% correct and I hope Fizdale is the guy who make this happen. I like that he's getting a young squad that isnt devoid of talent and has a lot of athleticism. I dont have high expectations for next year. I think we take a solid step forward. Frank will be better. Burke looks like he can run an offense. THJ should shoot better and be healthy. Fizdale will have some guys like Dotson, Lee, Lance, Troy, Baker who are willing and able defenders... we will see, but you are right.

How do you look at this FO's moves and NOT come away with a clear direction that they are working to get younger, more athletic and better defensively? We have a LONG ways to go... its year 1 for this FO. But arent the signs pretty clear?

I thought we were talking about defense and Burke doesn't play any. I sprite their direction but some of their signings don't add up. I am not a fan of the THJR signing either. Mudiay is bad. I am not blaming then for trying, I just think we are a far cry from the discipline Boston has shown in how they acquire talent. Which I think what this thread was about.

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

awe1028 wrote:As the conference finals begins, one thing has become abundantly clear: the only team that has a chance to beat Golden State: The Boston Celtics. Why? Simple because they play defense.
Houston? No chance. You know the old saying a copy is never as good as the original.
The Rockets spent so much time trying to imitating Golden State and it will all be for nought as they get destroyed by the Warriors.

Boston on the other hand plays tough in your face defense that will give Golden State some trouble.
We have already seen what that defense did to Lebron and the Cavs and it is this defense that will give Golden State trouble

If it sounds that I have already picked the NBA finals participants after just one game you would be right.
Of the two series Golden State will have the easier time of it. Houston has no chance.
In the Celts Cavs series You have to give Lebron his due but IMHO Boston will also win that series.

Having said all that I still believe GS will beat the Celtics but it is really telling that the team who plays the best defense will have the best chance to beat GS
I sure hope the Knicks are watching

Of course they value defense its all they talk about, but this front office does a lot more than talk about defense, they back up their words with action. I mean nothing screams were building a defensive juggernaut like trading for Mudiay, Kanter, and Mcdermott.

And signing Burke

Wow. Yea. Lets ignore every other move. Jmpasq yours is even better listing McD who was traded for Mudiay.
Kanter came for Melo. Thats an upgrade to your defense
Burke replaced... oh yea, we dont even have a PG.
Frank was regarded as untouchable during the trade deadline.
Lets talk about Ron Baker's stupid contract.
Troy Williams, Kicks, Kornet, Dotson, Lance, Lee and KOQ were all either brought in or go their playing time because they defend.

Fizdale is a defense first hire.

Honestly.. what are the steps you guys would take to get the Knicks better on defense and faster? Jmpasq wants to trade KP, best rim protecter in the league for draft picks... so that will improve the defense yea

awe1028... I totally agree with the premiss of your thread. I have been saying awhile the model we should be targeting are Larry Brown/Dumas Pistons. I suspect there are going to be a lot more roster changes over the next couple years but you are 100% correct and I hope Fizdale is the guy who make this happen. I like that he's getting a young squad that isnt devoid of talent and has a lot of athleticism. I dont have high expectations for next year. I think we take a solid step forward. Frank will be better. Burke looks like he can run an offense. THJ should shoot better and be healthy. Fizdale will have some guys like Dotson, Lee, Lance, Troy, Baker who are willing and able defenders... we will see, but you are right.

How do you look at this FO's moves and NOT come away with a clear direction that they are working to get younger, more athletic and better defensively? We have a LONG ways to go... its year 1 for this FO. But arent the signs pretty clear?

I'm all for the emphasis on defense, but I think it's fair to question some of the moves. Other than Frank (which was a Phil pick) you can't find anything that screams defense (other than maybe Troy).

We also have to admit that there's a major shift in rhetoric if not philosophy. Prior FO wanted smart two-way players who wouldn't necessarily be the guys to jump out of the gym. There's a certain wisdom to this in principle even if not in our execution. Having a better balanced offensive set, helps with defense. Having player movement (not just spacing) helps tire the opponent out (see, GS and SA). Of course you need to execute at the defensive end of the floor too which we failed at.

Current talk sounds like a shift to an emphasis on athleticism and/or grind it out tough guys. I fear this is not a great fit for KP and/or Frank (and actually the better part of our current roster).

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

awe1028 wrote:As the conference finals begins, one thing has become abundantly clear: the only team that has a chance to beat Golden State: The Boston Celtics. Why? Simple because they play defense.
Houston? No chance. You know the old saying a copy is never as good as the original.
The Rockets spent so much time trying to imitating Golden State and it will all be for nought as they get destroyed by the Warriors.

Boston on the other hand plays tough in your face defense that will give Golden State some trouble.
We have already seen what that defense did to Lebron and the Cavs and it is this defense that will give Golden State trouble

If it sounds that I have already picked the NBA finals participants after just one game you would be right.
Of the two series Golden State will have the easier time of it. Houston has no chance.
In the Celts Cavs series You have to give Lebron his due but IMHO Boston will also win that series.

Having said all that I still believe GS will beat the Celtics but it is really telling that the team who plays the best defense will have the best chance to beat GS
I sure hope the Knicks are watching

Of course they value defense its all they talk about, but this front office does a lot more than talk about defense, they back up their words with action. I mean nothing screams were building a defensive juggernaut like trading for Mudiay, Kanter, and Mcdermott.

And signing Burke

Wow. Yea. Lets ignore every other move. Jmpasq yours is even better listing McD who was traded for Mudiay.
Kanter came for Melo. Thats an upgrade to your defense
Burke replaced... oh yea, we dont even have a PG.
Frank was regarded as untouchable during the trade deadline.
Lets talk about Ron Baker's stupid contract.
Troy Williams, Kicks, Kornet, Dotson, Lance, Lee and KOQ were all either brought in or go their playing time because they defend.

Fizdale is a defense first hire.

Honestly.. what are the steps you guys would take to get the Knicks better on defense and faster? Jmpasq wants to trade KP, best rim protecter in the league for draft picks... so that will improve the defense yea

awe1028... I totally agree with the premiss of your thread. I have been saying awhile the model we should be targeting are Larry Brown/Dumas Pistons. I suspect there are going to be a lot more roster changes over the next couple years but you are 100% correct and I hope Fizdale is the guy who make this happen. I like that he's getting a young squad that isnt devoid of talent and has a lot of athleticism. I dont have high expectations for next year. I think we take a solid step forward. Frank will be better. Burke looks like he can run an offense. THJ should shoot better and be healthy. Fizdale will have some guys like Dotson, Lee, Lance, Troy, Baker who are willing and able defenders... we will see, but you are right.

How do you look at this FO's moves and NOT come away with a clear direction that they are working to get younger, more athletic and better defensively? We have a LONG ways to go... its year 1 for this FO. But arent the signs pretty clear?

I thought we were talking about defense and Burke doesn't play any. I sprite their direction but some of their signings don't add up. I am not a fan of the THJR signing either. Mudiay is bad. I am not blaming then for trying, I just think we are a far cry from the discipline Boston has shown in how they acquire talent. Which I think what this thread was about.

topic starter can clarify but that is not what I saw this thead being about. It was about how to build a great team. Even more so a team that can lose its 2 best players and be up 1-0 in the conference finals. How so? With defense. I think that is what this is about and its a spot on.

Of course we are a far cry... we are picking 9th in the lottery, not in the conference finals.

And to be fair... Burke certainly does play defense. He's not very good, mostly because of his size, but the effort is certainly there. He's limited, but he's also a league min G league player that fills a huge need on this roster. Hard to see how you can look at adding Burke as not being committed to defense. If we draft Trea Young I will change my tune.

Considering Perry's biggest success in the FO was under Dumar's Pistons title teams it certainly adds up. I hope we can deliver. Gonna need some luck. Tonight would help!!!!

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

awe1028 wrote:As the conference finals begins, one thing has become abundantly clear: the only team that has a chance to beat Golden State: The Boston Celtics. Why? Simple because they play defense.
Houston? No chance. You know the old saying a copy is never as good as the original.
The Rockets spent so much time trying to imitating Golden State and it will all be for nought as they get destroyed by the Warriors.

Boston on the other hand plays tough in your face defense that will give Golden State some trouble.
We have already seen what that defense did to Lebron and the Cavs and it is this defense that will give Golden State trouble

If it sounds that I have already picked the NBA finals participants after just one game you would be right.
Of the two series Golden State will have the easier time of it. Houston has no chance.
In the Celts Cavs series You have to give Lebron his due but IMHO Boston will also win that series.

Having said all that I still believe GS will beat the Celtics but it is really telling that the team who plays the best defense will have the best chance to beat GS
I sure hope the Knicks are watching

Of course they value defense its all they talk about, but this front office does a lot more than talk about defense, they back up their words with action. I mean nothing screams were building a defensive juggernaut like trading for Mudiay, Kanter, and Mcdermott.

And signing Burke

Wow. Yea. Lets ignore every other move. Jmpasq yours is even better listing McD who was traded for Mudiay.
Kanter came for Melo. Thats an upgrade to your defense
Burke replaced... oh yea, we dont even have a PG.
Frank was regarded as untouchable during the trade deadline.
Lets talk about Ron Baker's stupid contract.
Troy Williams, Kicks, Kornet, Dotson, Lance, Lee and KOQ were all either brought in or go their playing time because they defend.

Fizdale is a defense first hire.

Honestly.. what are the steps you guys would take to get the Knicks better on defense and faster? Jmpasq wants to trade KP, best rim protecter in the league for draft picks... so that will improve the defense yea

awe1028... I totally agree with the premiss of your thread. I have been saying awhile the model we should be targeting are Larry Brown/Dumas Pistons. I suspect there are going to be a lot more roster changes over the next couple years but you are 100% correct and I hope Fizdale is the guy who make this happen. I like that he's getting a young squad that isnt devoid of talent and has a lot of athleticism. I dont have high expectations for next year. I think we take a solid step forward. Frank will be better. Burke looks like he can run an offense. THJ should shoot better and be healthy. Fizdale will have some guys like Dotson, Lee, Lance, Troy, Baker who are willing and able defenders... we will see, but you are right.

How do you look at this FO's moves and NOT come away with a clear direction that they are working to get younger, more athletic and better defensively? We have a LONG ways to go... its year 1 for this FO. But arent the signs pretty clear?

I'm all for the emphasis on defense, but I think it's fair to question some of the moves. Other than Frank (which was a Phil pick) you can't find anything that screams defense (other than maybe Troy).

We also have to admit that there's a major shift in rhetoric if not philosophy. Prior FO wanted smart two-way players who wouldn't necessarily be the guys to jump out of the gym. There's a certain wisdom to this in principle even if not in our execution. Having a better balanced offensive set, helps with defense. Having player movement (not just spacing) helps tire the opponent out (see, GS and SA). Of course you need to execute at the defensive end of the floor too which we failed at.

Current talk sounds like a shift to an emphasis on athleticism and/or grind it out tough guys. I fear this is not a great fit for KP and/or Frank (and actually the better part of our current roster).

Not really following the changes you mention... Since Mills/Perry took over last year all they have talked about is getting younger, more athletic and a defensive squad that can continue to grow together for years and a 3-5 year time line (starting last year). What is this change you speak of?

it's up to FIZ and his coaching staff to get his players to 100% buy in, and your only going to have players buy in if you actually winNING games and have success.

All season long when Boston players get ask about their success, they all point to the coach, they say things like "He puts us in the right positions and roles to have that success.

Houston didn't build their roster to be like GSW(CP3 like durant wanted to play with better players), especially when Kerr goes on record and praises MDA for revolutionizing the game to where it's at now.

But it's not just the coach, it's danny ainge making the right moves at the right time, getting rid of I T, trading your first round pick, trading KG and PP at the time WHEN they still had value.

The only trade asset we have is FRANK, so if colleen on trae is available, you DRAFT ONE OF THEM AND TRADE FRANK FOR A SF, OR ANOTHER PICK.

knicks1248 wrote:it's up to FIZ and his coaching staff to get his players to 100% buy in, and your only going to have players buy in if you actually winNING games and have success.

All season long when Boston players get ask about their success, they all point to the coach, they say things like "He puts us in the right positions and roles to have that success.

Houston didn't build there roster to be like GSW, especially when Kerr goes on record and praises MDA for revolutionizing the game to where it's at now.

But it's not just the coach, it's danny ainge making the right moves at the right time, getting rid of I T, trading your first round pick, trading KG and PP at the time WHEN they still had value.

The only trade asset we have is FRANK, so if colleen on trae is available, you DRAFT ONE OF THEM AND TRADE FRANK FOR A SF, OR ANOTHER PICK.

So you have one asset, your plan is to trade it, and you emphasize winning. Got it.

awe1028 wrote:As the conference finals begins, one thing has become abundantly clear: the only team that has a chance to beat Golden State: The Boston Celtics. Why? Simple because they play defense.
Houston? No chance. You know the old saying a copy is never as good as the original.
The Rockets spent so much time trying to imitating Golden State and it will all be for nought as they get destroyed by the Warriors.

Boston on the other hand plays tough in your face defense that will give Golden State some trouble.
We have already seen what that defense did to Lebron and the Cavs and it is this defense that will give Golden State trouble

If it sounds that I have already picked the NBA finals participants after just one game you would be right.
Of the two series Golden State will have the easier time of it. Houston has no chance.
In the Celts Cavs series You have to give Lebron his due but IMHO Boston will also win that series.

Having said all that I still believe GS will beat the Celtics but it is really telling that the team who plays the best defense will have the best chance to beat GS
I sure hope the Knicks are watching

The future of this team is built around KP and Frank. Could add Bridges in the draft. So defense will absolutely be the strong suit moving forward.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:it's up to FIZ and his coaching staff to get his players to 100% buy in, and your only going to have players buy in if you actually winNING games and have success.

All season long when Boston players get ask about their success, they all point to the coach, they say things like "He puts us in the right positions and roles to have that success.

Houston didn't build there roster to be like GSW, especially when Kerr goes on record and praises MDA for revolutionizing the game to where it's at now.

But it's not just the coach, it's danny ainge making the right moves at the right time, getting rid of I T, trading your first round pick, trading KG and PP at the time WHEN they still had value.

The only trade asset we have is FRANK, so if colleen on trae is available, you DRAFT ONE OF THEM AND TRADE FRANK FOR A SF, OR ANOTHER PICK.

So you have one asset, your plan is to trade it, and you emphasize winning. Got it.

well if you continue to loose, no ones going to buy in 100%, the value of every player nose dives (which is why lance and lee are still here)and the president will get fired. The new guy will come in and go in another direction. what other trade assets do we have, the only other option is to hope Kanter and KOQ opt in so their expiring contracts can become assets by the trade deal line.

A guy like you would never support trading a overall first round pick, you seem like a very conservative type, scared to take any big risk, you seem more concern about your loss then your reward

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

awe1028 wrote:As the conference finals begins, one thing has become abundantly clear: the only team that has a chance to beat Golden State: The Boston Celtics. Why? Simple because they play defense.
Houston? No chance. You know the old saying a copy is never as good as the original.
The Rockets spent so much time trying to imitating Golden State and it will all be for nought as they get destroyed by the Warriors.

Boston on the other hand plays tough in your face defense that will give Golden State some trouble.
We have already seen what that defense did to Lebron and the Cavs and it is this defense that will give Golden State trouble

If it sounds that I have already picked the NBA finals participants after just one game you would be right.
Of the two series Golden State will have the easier time of it. Houston has no chance.
In the Celts Cavs series You have to give Lebron his due but IMHO Boston will also win that series.

Having said all that I still believe GS will beat the Celtics but it is really telling that the team who plays the best defense will have the best chance to beat GS
I sure hope the Knicks are watching

Of course they value defense its all they talk about, but this front office does a lot more than talk about defense, they back up their words with action. I mean nothing screams were building a defensive juggernaut like trading for Mudiay, Kanter, and Mcdermott.

And signing Burke

Wow. Yea. Lets ignore every other move. Jmpasq yours is even better listing McD who was traded for Mudiay.
Kanter came for Melo. Thats an upgrade to your defense
Burke replaced... oh yea, we dont even have a PG.
Frank was regarded as untouchable during the trade deadline.
Lets talk about Ron Baker's stupid contract.
Troy Williams, Kicks, Kornet, Dotson, Lance, Lee and KOQ were all either brought in or go their playing time because they defend.

Fizdale is a defense first hire.

Honestly.. what are the steps you guys would take to get the Knicks better on defense and faster? Jmpasq wants to trade KP, best rim protecter in the league for draft picks... so that will improve the defense yea

awe1028... I totally agree with the premiss of your thread. I have been saying awhile the model we should be targeting are Larry Brown/Dumas Pistons. I suspect there are going to be a lot more roster changes over the next couple years but you are 100% correct and I hope Fizdale is the guy who make this happen. I like that he's getting a young squad that isnt devoid of talent and has a lot of athleticism. I dont have high expectations for next year. I think we take a solid step forward. Frank will be better. Burke looks like he can run an offense. THJ should shoot better and be healthy. Fizdale will have some guys like Dotson, Lee, Lance, Troy, Baker who are willing and able defenders... we will see, but you are right.

How do you look at this FO's moves and NOT come away with a clear direction that they are working to get younger, more athletic and better defensively? We have a LONG ways to go... its year 1 for this FO. But arent the signs pretty clear?

I'm all for the emphasis on defense, but I think it's fair to question some of the moves. Other than Frank (which was a Phil pick) you can't find anything that screams defense (other than maybe Troy).

We also have to admit that there's a major shift in rhetoric if not philosophy. Prior FO wanted smart two-way players who wouldn't necessarily be the guys to jump out of the gym. There's a certain wisdom to this in principle even if not in our execution. Having a better balanced offensive set, helps with defense. Having player movement (not just spacing) helps tire the opponent out (see, GS and SA). Of course you need to execute at the defensive end of the floor too which we failed at.

Current talk sounds like a shift to an emphasis on athleticism and/or grind it out tough guys. I fear this is not a great fit for KP and/or Frank (and actually the better part of our current roster).

Not really following the changes you mention... Since Mills/Perry took over last year all they have talked about is getting younger, more athletic and a defensive squad that can continue to grow together for years and a 3-5 year time line (starting last year). What is this change you speak of?

The emphasis now is on athleticism. Last year this time Phil was saying the team was not necessarily targeting the guys who can jump out of the gym.

The Heat (and the Grizz under Fiz) wanted athletes/grinders.

it's a difference between the Heat, or Grizzlies, versus let's say San Antonio -- when the teams do it at a high level. Each approach can work, but they have different rosters. My own opinion is KP and Frank better suit a San Antonio-type model and we would have been better with Budenholzer. I don't see one starter on our team who I consider tailor made for the Heat/Grizz style

OT from Boston: to follow the original post I would say "I sure hope the Knicks are watching GS"

Fizz should be watching how GS exploits mismatches particularly smaller guys on Durant. We need to get easier baskets for KP!!

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:it's up to FIZ and his coaching staff to get his players to 100% buy in, and your only going to have players buy in if you actually winNING games and have success.

All season long when Boston players get ask about their success, they all point to the coach, they say things like "He puts us in the right positions and roles to have that success.

Houston didn't build there roster to be like GSW, especially when Kerr goes on record and praises MDA for revolutionizing the game to where it's at now.

But it's not just the coach, it's danny ainge making the right moves at the right time, getting rid of I T, trading your first round pick, trading KG and PP at the time WHEN they still had value.

The only trade asset we have is FRANK, so if colleen on trae is available, you DRAFT ONE OF THEM AND TRADE FRANK FOR A SF, OR ANOTHER PICK.

So you have one asset, your plan is to trade it, and you emphasize winning. Got it.

well if you continue to loose, no ones going to buy in 100%, the value of every player nose dives (which is why lance and lee are still here)and the president will get fired. The new guy will come in and go in another direction. what other trade assets do we have, the only other option is to hope Kanter and KOQ opt in so their expiring contracts can become assets by the trade deal line.

A guy like you would never support trading a overall first round pick, you seem like a very conservative type, scared to take any big risk, you seem more concern about your loss then your reward

No.. I am just wary of stupidity. I have no problem with risks. I am still waiting for the part where you talk about anything tangible. So you clear path to being a winner is trading Frank and (new update) taking arbitrary risks.

Who are you targeting in trades with the Knicks first round pick?

Chandler wrote:
OT from Boston: to follow the original post I would say "I sure hope the Knicks are watching GS"

Fizz should be watching how GS exploits mismatches particularly smaller guys on Durant. We need to get easier baskets for KP!!

Just have to watch what MDA did in NY. One of the first things he did was get rid of our best post player at the time, Zach Randolph. Didnt work out so well.

The game is moving away from players like Curry dominating, to players like Durant, Giannis, and hopefully KP.

GS got to stay ahead of the curve with KD.

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

awe1028 wrote:As the conference finals begins, one thing has become abundantly clear: the only team that has a chance to beat Golden State: The Boston Celtics. Why? Simple because they play defense.
Houston? No chance. You know the old saying a copy is never as good as the original.
The Rockets spent so much time trying to imitating Golden State and it will all be for nought as they get destroyed by the Warriors.

Boston on the other hand plays tough in your face defense that will give Golden State some trouble.
We have already seen what that defense did to Lebron and the Cavs and it is this defense that will give Golden State trouble

If it sounds that I have already picked the NBA finals participants after just one game you would be right.
Of the two series Golden State will have the easier time of it. Houston has no chance.
In the Celts Cavs series You have to give Lebron his due but IMHO Boston will also win that series.

Having said all that I still believe GS will beat the Celtics but it is really telling that the team who plays the best defense will have the best chance to beat GS
I sure hope the Knicks are watching

Of course they value defense its all they talk about, but this front office does a lot more than talk about defense, they back up their words with action. I mean nothing screams were building a defensive juggernaut like trading for Mudiay, Kanter, and Mcdermott.

And signing Burke

Wow. Yea. Lets ignore every other move. Jmpasq yours is even better listing McD who was traded for Mudiay.
Kanter came for Melo. Thats an upgrade to your defense
Burke replaced... oh yea, we dont even have a PG.
Frank was regarded as untouchable during the trade deadline.
Lets talk about Ron Baker's stupid contract.
Troy Williams, Kicks, Kornet, Dotson, Lance, Lee and KOQ were all either brought in or go their playing time because they defend.

Fizdale is a defense first hire.

Honestly.. what are the steps you guys would take to get the Knicks better on defense and faster? Jmpasq wants to trade KP, best rim protecter in the league for draft picks... so that will improve the defense yea

awe1028... I totally agree with the premiss of your thread. I have been saying awhile the model we should be targeting are Larry Brown/Dumas Pistons. I suspect there are going to be a lot more roster changes over the next couple years but you are 100% correct and I hope Fizdale is the guy who make this happen. I like that he's getting a young squad that isnt devoid of talent and has a lot of athleticism. I dont have high expectations for next year. I think we take a solid step forward. Frank will be better. Burke looks like he can run an offense. THJ should shoot better and be healthy. Fizdale will have some guys like Dotson, Lee, Lance, Troy, Baker who are willing and able defenders... we will see, but you are right.

How do you look at this FO's moves and NOT come away with a clear direction that they are working to get younger, more athletic and better defensively? We have a LONG ways to go... its year 1 for this FO. But arent the signs pretty clear?

I'm all for the emphasis on defense, but I think it's fair to question some of the moves. Other than Frank (which was a Phil pick) you can't find anything that screams defense (other than maybe Troy).

We also have to admit that there's a major shift in rhetoric if not philosophy. Prior FO wanted smart two-way players who wouldn't necessarily be the guys to jump out of the gym. There's a certain wisdom to this in principle even if not in our execution. Having a better balanced offensive set, helps with defense. Having player movement (not just spacing) helps tire the opponent out (see, GS and SA). Of course you need to execute at the defensive end of the floor too which we failed at.

Current talk sounds like a shift to an emphasis on athleticism and/or grind it out tough guys. I fear this is not a great fit for KP and/or Frank (and actually the better part of our current roster).

Not really following the changes you mention... Since Mills/Perry took over last year all they have talked about is getting younger, more athletic and a defensive squad that can continue to grow together for years and a 3-5 year time line (starting last year). What is this change you speak of?

The emphasis now is on athleticism. Last year this time Phil was saying the team was not necessarily targeting the guys who can jump out of the gym.

The Heat (and the Grizz under Fiz) wanted athletes/grinders.

it's a difference between the Heat, or Grizzlies, versus let's say San Antonio -- when the teams do it at a high level. Each approach can work, but they have different rosters. My own opinion is KP and Frank better suit a San Antonio-type model and we would have been better with Budenholzer. I don't see one starter on our team who I consider tailor made for the Heat/Grizz style

OK from Phil to current FO. Got it... I thought you meant with the current FO.

I thought Bud was the best fit for coach. Uptown and others swayed my mind to remain open to Fizdale which I will do until he phucks everything up.

Its very early to tell anything... all these moves are reading tea leaves, but they are pretty consistent. Sometimes you dont get to dictate either. KOQ/Kanter both are both big moving parts. Kanter has value at 25, a double double machine and plays very hard. Is he worth $80mm? Ouch... we will see. This FO has tough challenges ahead.

awe1028 wrote:As the conference finals begins, one thing has become abundantly clear: the only team that has a chance to beat Golden State: The Boston Celtics. Why? Simple because they play defense.
Houston? No chance. You know the old saying a copy is never as good as the original.
The Rockets spent so much time trying to imitating Golden State and it will all be for nought as they get destroyed by the Warriors.

Boston on the other hand plays tough in your face defense that will give Golden State some trouble.
We have already seen what that defense did to Lebron and the Cavs and it is this defense that will give Golden State trouble

If it sounds that I have already picked the NBA finals participants after just one game you would be right.
Of the two series Golden State will have the easier time of it. Houston has no chance.
In the Celts Cavs series You have to give Lebron his due but IMHO Boston will also win that series.

Having said all that I still believe GS will beat the Celtics but it is really telling that the team who plays the best defense will have the best chance to beat GS
I sure hope the Knicks are watching

An ironic side story, though...their two injured starters are both so so defenders, and were replaced by superior defensive players when they went down...

Would they be better with Irving and Heyward playing 35MPG in the playoffs?

Chandler wrote:
OT from Boston: to follow the original post I would say "I sure hope the Knicks are watching GS"

Fizz should be watching how GS exploits mismatches particularly smaller guys on Durant. We need to get easier baskets for KP!!

And I hope KP is watching Durant as well! He was money on those turn arounds at the foul line - he set up down low and spun out to the FT line and made everyone he took.

KP has the potential to be that good and better- he needs to be stronger, though, for sure...

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

awe1028 wrote:As the conference finals begins, one thing has become abundantly clear: the only team that has a chance to beat Golden State: The Boston Celtics. Why? Simple because they play defense.
Houston? No chance. You know the old saying a copy is never as good as the original.
The Rockets spent so much time trying to imitating Golden State and it will all be for nought as they get destroyed by the Warriors.

Boston on the other hand plays tough in your face defense that will give Golden State some trouble.
We have already seen what that defense did to Lebron and the Cavs and it is this defense that will give Golden State trouble

If it sounds that I have already picked the NBA finals participants after just one game you would be right.
Of the two series Golden State will have the easier time of it. Houston has no chance.
In the Celts Cavs series You have to give Lebron his due but IMHO Boston will also win that series.

Having said all that I still believe GS will beat the Celtics but it is really telling that the team who plays the best defense will have the best chance to beat GS
I sure hope the Knicks are watching

Of course they value defense its all they talk about, but this front office does a lot more than talk about defense, they back up their words with action. I mean nothing screams were building a defensive juggernaut like trading for Mudiay, Kanter, and Mcdermott.

And signing Burke

Wow. Yea. Lets ignore every other move. Jmpasq yours is even better listing McD who was traded for Mudiay.
Kanter came for Melo. Thats an upgrade to your defense
Burke replaced... oh yea, we dont even have a PG.
Frank was regarded as untouchable during the trade deadline.
Lets talk about Ron Baker's stupid contract.
Troy Williams, Kicks, Kornet, Dotson, Lance, Lee and KOQ were all either brought in or go their playing time because they defend.

Fizdale is a defense first hire.

Honestly.. what are the steps you guys would take to get the Knicks better on defense and faster? Jmpasq wants to trade KP, best rim protecter in the league for draft picks... so that will improve the defense yea

awe1028... I totally agree with the premiss of your thread. I have been saying awhile the model we should be targeting are Larry Brown/Dumas Pistons. I suspect there are going to be a lot more roster changes over the next couple years but you are 100% correct and I hope Fizdale is the guy who make this happen. I like that he's getting a young squad that isnt devoid of talent and has a lot of athleticism. I dont have high expectations for next year. I think we take a solid step forward. Frank will be better. Burke looks like he can run an offense. THJ should shoot better and be healthy. Fizdale will have some guys like Dotson, Lee, Lance, Troy, Baker who are willing and able defenders... we will see, but you are right.

How do you look at this FO's moves and NOT come away with a clear direction that they are working to get younger, more athletic and better defensively? We have a LONG ways to go... its year 1 for this FO. But arent the signs pretty clear?

I'm all for the emphasis on defense, but I think it's fair to question some of the moves. Other than Frank (which was a Phil pick) you can't find anything that screams defense (other than maybe Troy).

We also have to admit that there's a major shift in rhetoric if not philosophy. Prior FO wanted smart two-way players who wouldn't necessarily be the guys to jump out of the gym. There's a certain wisdom to this in principle even if not in our execution. Having a better balanced offensive set, helps with defense. Having player movement (not just spacing) helps tire the opponent out (see, GS and SA). Of course you need to execute at the defensive end of the floor too which we failed at.

Current talk sounds like a shift to an emphasis on athleticism and/or grind it out tough guys. I fear this is not a great fit for KP and/or Frank (and actually the better part of our current roster).

Not really following the changes you mention... Since Mills/Perry took over last year all they have talked about is getting younger, more athletic and a defensive squad that can continue to grow together for years and a 3-5 year time line (starting last year). What is this change you speak of?

The emphasis now is on athleticism. Last year this time Phil was saying the team was not necessarily targeting the guys who can jump out of the gym.

The Heat (and the Grizz under Fiz) wanted athletes/grinders.

it's a difference between the Heat, or Grizzlies, versus let's say San Antonio -- when the teams do it at a high level. Each approach can work, but they have different rosters. My own opinion is KP and Frank better suit a San Antonio-type model and we would have been better with Budenholzer. I don't see one starter on our team who I consider tailor made for the Heat/Grizz style

Remember how Riley went from showtime to the Knicks?

I am confident that Fizdale will adapt to the roster and talent.

And I am also confident that Perry, Mills and Fiz are on the same page about the kind of players you need in the NBA to succeed.