Knicks · MPJr Might Drop To Us Tonight (page 2)
TPercy wrote:Good. Let him keep dropping.
All the way to 36 
The more useless version is Jonathan Bender, whose entire career was taken from him, short of maybe a dozen impressive games on the Knicks. He should have been Anthony Davis but just was never healthy enough.
From what I read, there was a study of 61 nba players who had his type of procedure done. They all returned as good or better the 2nd year after the surgery.
smackeddog wrote:reub wrote:We need to take Porter and start the New York Process. We might only need one more year of it.KP
Porter
Frank
RJ Barrett
KyrieGriz desperately wanted him, mavs desperately wanted him, bulls wanted him and so did cavs- why would they all pass?
Because of his health issues and the possibility that he might not play the full season. In my New York Process you HOPE that he doesn't play the full season. As a matter of fact you insist on it.
NYKBocker wrote:TPercy wrote:Good. Let him keep dropping.All the way to 36
Yeah, good risk at 36
technomaster wrote:Well, if he has a short shelf life, can he be good enough early enough to be a difference maker. I think of Brandon Roy. Buddy had no cartilage in his knees. He was fantastic al-star talent for several years, then just couldn’t do it anymore.The more useless version is Jonathan Bender, whose entire career was taken from him, short of maybe a dozen impressive games on the Knicks. He should have been Anthony Davis but just was never healthy enough.
From what I read, there was a study of 61 nba players who had his type of procedure done. They all returned as good or better the 2nd year after the surgery.
Great post! Thanks for this info....
Uptown wrote:technomaster wrote:Well, if he has a short shelf life, can he be good enough early enough to be a difference maker. I think of Brandon Roy. Buddy had no cartilage in his knees. He was fantastic al-star talent for several years, then just couldn’t do it anymore.The more useless version is Jonathan Bender, whose entire career was taken from him, short of maybe a dozen impressive games on the Knicks. He should have been Anthony Davis but just was never healthy enough.
From what I read, there was a study of 61 nba players who had his type of procedure done. They all returned as good or better the 2nd year after the surgery.
Great post! Thanks for this info....
How old were they at the time of their procedure? Were they still growing at the time? How long were they in the league at the time of their injury? What position did they play? It should make me feel better about his health, but it doesnt.
There was a story that Porter jr. couldnt get out of bed after working out for a team because of severe hip pain. If its true, did the players in that study go through similar issues?
All the cloak and dagger about Porter jr's medical records is enough to want see the Knicks pass. If the team that has his medical records passes on him, when they are short at his position, long term. It feels like an unecessary risk with less info.
GustavBahler wrote:Uptown wrote:technomaster wrote:Well, if he has a short shelf life, can he be good enough early enough to be a difference maker. I think of Brandon Roy. Buddy had no cartilage in his knees. He was fantastic al-star talent for several years, then just couldn’t do it anymore.The more useless version is Jonathan Bender, whose entire career was taken from him, short of maybe a dozen impressive games on the Knicks. He should have been Anthony Davis but just was never healthy enough.
From what I read, there was a study of 61 nba players who had his type of procedure done. They all returned as good or better the 2nd year after the surgery.
Great post! Thanks for this info....
How old were they at the time of their procedure? Were they still growing at the time? How long were they in the league at the time of their injury? What position did they play? It should make me feel better about his health, but it doesnt.
There was a story that Porter jr. couldnt get out of bed after working out for a team because of severe hip pain. If its true, did the players in that study go through similar issues?
All the cloak and dagger about Porter jr's medical records is enough to want see the Knicks pass. If the team that has his medical records passes on him, when they are short at his position, long term. It feels like an unecessary risk with less info.
Not directly meant at you, but this is so funny. Just last year people were screaming that they didnt take Dennis Smith even though he had ACL surgeries AND he wouldnt give them his medical records. Now the kid is screaming he is ok and now people are saying pass. Until he plays well. Then we hear the crying.
Had anyone heard about him having a recurring hip injury...or is he including the back MRIs?
Moot point, since we didn't draft him. The more I think about it, I don't get the sense he shared his medical records and he also didn't work out when the Knick scouts were expected to be there. Big bust potential due to injury. Plus, he basically missed a year of basketball, and if you "redshirt" him, he'll basically miss 2 years of basketball. And for what it's worth, he's older than Ntilikina (he'll be turning 20 in about a week).
What should teams expect from Porter right away?
Porter shouldn’t be overlooked because of the surgery he had that nearly ended his freshman season, but there’s a chance it effects his play as a rookie.A study done by two orthopedic surgeons from NYU’s Hospital for Joint Diseases, and one from Department of Orthopedic Surgery at Northwestern, compared those who had surgery after disc herniation (like Porter did) and those who chose rehab.
Using PER as a baseline, the study found that in a small, 61-person sample size, those who had surgery had a decline in games played and in PER in the year after their surgery, but showed no difference in the years following. Those who did not choose surgery saw no change in PER or games played, but had shorter careers.
So Porter, who won’t even be a year removed from surgery by the time next season starts. could be a step slow coming out of the gate, and his mind could be ahead of his body at times as he works his way back into shape. For teams that can afford to wait, he’s worth it.
Porter’s body and style of play mock that of the takeover scoring wing every team hopes to replicate. Porter’s a discount top-3 talent who could slip because of injury concerns. If all that worry is for naught he could be a draft day steal.
Porter may not provide the Rookie of the Year-type impact like Donovan Mitchell or Jayson Tatum in Year 1, but he should develop into a starter in time at worst case. He’s too big-time a talent to pass up after Luka Doncic, Deandre Ayton, and a select few others are off the board.
joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Uptown wrote:technomaster wrote:Well, if he has a short shelf life, can he be good enough early enough to be a difference maker. I think of Brandon Roy. Buddy had no cartilage in his knees. He was fantastic al-star talent for several years, then just couldn’t do it anymore.The more useless version is Jonathan Bender, whose entire career was taken from him, short of maybe a dozen impressive games on the Knicks. He should have been Anthony Davis but just was never healthy enough.
From what I read, there was a study of 61 nba players who had his type of procedure done. They all returned as good or better the 2nd year after the surgery.
Great post! Thanks for this info....
How old were they at the time of their procedure? Were they still growing at the time? How long were they in the league at the time of their injury? What position did they play? It should make me feel better about his health, but it doesnt.
There was a story that Porter jr. couldnt get out of bed after working out for a team because of severe hip pain. If its true, did the players in that study go through similar issues?
All the cloak and dagger about Porter jr's medical records is enough to want see the Knicks pass. If the team that has his medical records passes on him, when they are short at his position, long term. It feels like an unecessary risk with less info.
Not directly meant at you, but this is so funny. Just last year people were screaming that they didnt take Dennis Smith even though he had ACL surgeries AND he wouldnt give them his medical records. Now the kid is screaming he is ok and now people are saying pass. Until he plays well. Then we hear the crying.
The difference was that Smith jr. showed to be no worse for wear, and we're talking about a back injury.
Porter jr. also had a recent hip injury that kept him in bed for a day. I didnt disagree with folks who thought his medical records was a legit reason to pass.on him.
Not the caricature of a me first, selfish coach killer, he was made out to be by some here. No complaints about Smith jr's attitude from one of the toughest coaches in the league.
GustavBahler wrote:joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Uptown wrote:technomaster wrote:Well, if he has a short shelf life, can he be good enough early enough to be a difference maker. I think of Brandon Roy. Buddy had no cartilage in his knees. He was fantastic al-star talent for several years, then just couldn’t do it anymore.The more useless version is Jonathan Bender, whose entire career was taken from him, short of maybe a dozen impressive games on the Knicks. He should have been Anthony Davis but just was never healthy enough.
From what I read, there was a study of 61 nba players who had his type of procedure done. They all returned as good or better the 2nd year after the surgery.
Great post! Thanks for this info....
How old were they at the time of their procedure? Were they still growing at the time? How long were they in the league at the time of their injury? What position did they play? It should make me feel better about his health, but it doesnt.
There was a story that Porter jr. couldnt get out of bed after working out for a team because of severe hip pain. If its true, did the players in that study go through similar issues?
All the cloak and dagger about Porter jr's medical records is enough to want see the Knicks pass. If the team that has his medical records passes on him, when they are short at his position, long term. It feels like an unecessary risk with less info.
Not directly meant at you, but this is so funny. Just last year people were screaming that they didnt take Dennis Smith even though he had ACL surgeries AND he wouldnt give them his medical records. Now the kid is screaming he is ok and now people are saying pass. Until he plays well. Then we hear the crying.
The difference was that Smith jr. showed to be no worse for wear, and we're talking about a back injury.Porter jr. also had a recent hip injury that kept him in bed for a day. I didnt disagree with folks who thought his medical records was a legit reason to pass.on him.
Not the caricature of a me first, selfish coach killer, he was made out to be by some here. No complaints about Smith jr's attitude from one of the toughest coaches in the league.
Taking that perspective I would be even MORE wary of Smith. Because he is essentially saying "No you cant look at my records to determine a poosible long term issue, but pay me my money for the next 5 years". Im not saying he did that, but i still want to look at possible LONG term issues that may arise, as opposed to banking on short term sample sizes. That is very naive. Meanwhile, at least Porter is up front about everything.
joec32033 wrote:I think Bilas made the point that medical records should be made available to all teams. Smith withheld his records to the Knicks. He did not want to play the triangle or for Phil. The Knicks are no longer being put in the same group with the Kings and Griz where players won't share their medical histories.GustavBahler wrote:joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Uptown wrote:technomaster wrote:Well, if he has a short shelf life, can he be good enough early enough to be a difference maker. I think of Brandon Roy. Buddy had no cartilage in his knees. He was fantastic al-star talent for several years, then just couldn’t do it anymore.The more useless version is Jonathan Bender, whose entire career was taken from him, short of maybe a dozen impressive games on the Knicks. He should have been Anthony Davis but just was never healthy enough.
From what I read, there was a study of 61 nba players who had his type of procedure done. They all returned as good or better the 2nd year after the surgery.
Great post! Thanks for this info....
How old were they at the time of their procedure? Were they still growing at the time? How long were they in the league at the time of their injury? What position did they play? It should make me feel better about his health, but it doesnt.
There was a story that Porter jr. couldnt get out of bed after working out for a team because of severe hip pain. If its true, did the players in that study go through similar issues?
All the cloak and dagger about Porter jr's medical records is enough to want see the Knicks pass. If the team that has his medical records passes on him, when they are short at his position, long term. It feels like an unecessary risk with less info.
Not directly meant at you, but this is so funny. Just last year people were screaming that they didnt take Dennis Smith even though he had ACL surgeries AND he wouldnt give them his medical records. Now the kid is screaming he is ok and now people are saying pass. Until he plays well. Then we hear the crying.
The difference was that Smith jr. showed to be no worse for wear, and we're talking about a back injury.Porter jr. also had a recent hip injury that kept him in bed for a day. I didnt disagree with folks who thought his medical records was a legit reason to pass.on him.
Not the caricature of a me first, selfish coach killer, he was made out to be by some here. No complaints about Smith jr's attitude from one of the toughest coaches in the league.
Taking that perspective I would be even MORE wary of Smith. Because he is essentially saying "No you cant look at my records to determine a poosible long term issue, but pay me my money for the next 5 years". Im not saying he did that, but i still want to look at possible LONG term issues that may arise, as opposed to banking on short term sample sizes. That is very naive. Meanwhile, at least Porter is up front about everything.
CrushAlot wrote:joec32033 wrote:I think Bilas made the point that medical records should be made available to all teams. Smith withheld his records to the Knicks. He did not want to play the triangle or for Phil. The Knicks are no longer being put in the same group with the Kings and Griz where players won't share their medical histories.GustavBahler wrote:joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Uptown wrote:technomaster wrote:Well, if he has a short shelf life, can he be good enough early enough to be a difference maker. I think of Brandon Roy. Buddy had no cartilage in his knees. He was fantastic al-star talent for several years, then just couldn’t do it anymore.The more useless version is Jonathan Bender, whose entire career was taken from him, short of maybe a dozen impressive games on the Knicks. He should have been Anthony Davis but just was never healthy enough.
From what I read, there was a study of 61 nba players who had his type of procedure done. They all returned as good or better the 2nd year after the surgery.
Great post! Thanks for this info....
How old were they at the time of their procedure? Were they still growing at the time? How long were they in the league at the time of their injury? What position did they play? It should make me feel better about his health, but it doesnt.
There was a story that Porter jr. couldnt get out of bed after working out for a team because of severe hip pain. If its true, did the players in that study go through similar issues?
All the cloak and dagger about Porter jr's medical records is enough to want see the Knicks pass. If the team that has his medical records passes on him, when they are short at his position, long term. It feels like an unecessary risk with less info.
Not directly meant at you, but this is so funny. Just last year people were screaming that they didnt take Dennis Smith even though he had ACL surgeries AND he wouldnt give them his medical records. Now the kid is screaming he is ok and now people are saying pass. Until he plays well. Then we hear the crying.
The difference was that Smith jr. showed to be no worse for wear, and we're talking about a back injury.Porter jr. also had a recent hip injury that kept him in bed for a day. I didnt disagree with folks who thought his medical records was a legit reason to pass.on him.
Not the caricature of a me first, selfish coach killer, he was made out to be by some here. No complaints about Smith jr's attitude from one of the toughest coaches in the league.
Taking that perspective I would be even MORE wary of Smith. Because he is essentially saying "No you cant look at my records to determine a poosible long term issue, but pay me my money for the next 5 years". Im not saying he did that, but i still want to look at possible LONG term issues that may arise, as opposed to banking on short term sample sizes. That is very naive. Meanwhile, at least Porter is up front about everything.
He did and he is right. Unless they do something where these kids choose where the go (Hahn had a crazy idea about stopping the draft and having a FA Money pool for kids out of college and signing them like FA's), all relevant info should be available to all teams.
joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Uptown wrote:technomaster wrote:Well, if he has a short shelf life, can he be good enough early enough to be a difference maker. I think of Brandon Roy. Buddy had no cartilage in his knees. He was fantastic al-star talent for several years, then just couldn’t do it anymore.The more useless version is Jonathan Bender, whose entire career was taken from him, short of maybe a dozen impressive games on the Knicks. He should have been Anthony Davis but just was never healthy enough.
From what I read, there was a study of 61 nba players who had his type of procedure done. They all returned as good or better the 2nd year after the surgery.
Great post! Thanks for this info....
How old were they at the time of their procedure? Were they still growing at the time? How long were they in the league at the time of their injury? What position did they play? It should make me feel better about his health, but it doesnt.
There was a story that Porter jr. couldnt get out of bed after working out for a team because of severe hip pain. If its true, did the players in that study go through similar issues?
All the cloak and dagger about Porter jr's medical records is enough to want see the Knicks pass. If the team that has his medical records passes on him, when they are short at his position, long term. It feels like an unecessary risk with less info.
Not directly meant at you, but this is so funny. Just last year people were screaming that they didnt take Dennis Smith even though he had ACL surgeries AND he wouldnt give them his medical records. Now the kid is screaming he is ok and now people are saying pass. Until he plays well. Then we hear the crying.
The difference was that Smith jr. showed to be no worse for wear, and we're talking about a back injury.Porter jr. also had a recent hip injury that kept him in bed for a day. I didnt disagree with folks who thought his medical records was a legit reason to pass.on him.
Not the caricature of a me first, selfish coach killer, he was made out to be by some here. No complaints about Smith jr's attitude from one of the toughest coaches in the league.
Taking that perspective I would be even MORE wary of Smith. Because he is essentially saying "No you cant look at my records to determine a poosible long term issue, but pay me my money for the next 5 years". Im not saying he did that, but i still want to look at possible LONG term issues that may arise, as opposed to banking on short term sample sizes. That is very naive. Meanwhile, at least Porter is up front about everything.
Naive? Get bent. Porter couldnt get out of bed after workouts, and Smith jr. was doing windmill dunks before the draft. One player was ready to play, the other one still isnt 100 percent. Being upfront about your medical issues doesnt change them.
CrushAlot wrote:joec32033 wrote:I think Bilas made the point that medical records should be made available to all teams. Smith withheld his records to the Knicks. He did not want to play the triangle or for Phil. The Knicks are no longer being put in the same group with the Kings and Griz where players won't share their medical histories.GustavBahler wrote:joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Uptown wrote:technomaster wrote:Well, if he has a short shelf life, can he be good enough early enough to be a difference maker. I think of Brandon Roy. Buddy had no cartilage in his knees. He was fantastic al-star talent for several years, then just couldn’t do it anymore.The more useless version is Jonathan Bender, whose entire career was taken from him, short of maybe a dozen impressive games on the Knicks. He should have been Anthony Davis but just was never healthy enough.
From what I read, there was a study of 61 nba players who had his type of procedure done. They all returned as good or better the 2nd year after the surgery.
Great post! Thanks for this info....
How old were they at the time of their procedure? Were they still growing at the time? How long were they in the league at the time of their injury? What position did they play? It should make me feel better about his health, but it doesnt.
There was a story that Porter jr. couldnt get out of bed after working out for a team because of severe hip pain. If its true, did the players in that study go through similar issues?
All the cloak and dagger about Porter jr's medical records is enough to want see the Knicks pass. If the team that has his medical records passes on him, when they are short at his position, long term. It feels like an unecessary risk with less info.
Not directly meant at you, but this is so funny. Just last year people were screaming that they didnt take Dennis Smith even though he had ACL surgeries AND he wouldnt give them his medical records. Now the kid is screaming he is ok and now people are saying pass. Until he plays well. Then we hear the crying.
The difference was that Smith jr. showed to be no worse for wear, and we're talking about a back injury.Porter jr. also had a recent hip injury that kept him in bed for a day. I didnt disagree with folks who thought his medical records was a legit reason to pass.on him.
Not the caricature of a me first, selfish coach killer, he was made out to be by some here. No complaints about Smith jr's attitude from one of the toughest coaches in the league.
Taking that perspective I would be even MORE wary of Smith. Because he is essentially saying "No you cant look at my records to determine a poosible long term issue, but pay me my money for the next 5 years". Im not saying he did that, but i still want to look at possible LONG term issues that may arise, as opposed to banking on short term sample sizes. That is very naive. Meanwhile, at least Porter is up front about everything.
For Smith and the Knicks it was a good decision on both sides. The fit was not there. Frank and Mitchell would have and did love to be drafted by the Knicks. Due to them being more versatile players allowing them to fit in any system. We will see how it plays out when its all said and done, though Mitchell already looks like a superstar.
GustavBahler wrote:joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Uptown wrote:technomaster wrote:Well, if he has a short shelf life, can he be good enough early enough to be a difference maker. I think of Brandon Roy. Buddy had no cartilage in his knees. He was fantastic al-star talent for several years, then just couldn’t do it anymore.The more useless version is Jonathan Bender, whose entire career was taken from him, short of maybe a dozen impressive games on the Knicks. He should have been Anthony Davis but just was never healthy enough.
From what I read, there was a study of 61 nba players who had his type of procedure done. They all returned as good or better the 2nd year after the surgery.
Great post! Thanks for this info....
How old were they at the time of their procedure? Were they still growing at the time? How long were they in the league at the time of their injury? What position did they play? It should make me feel better about his health, but it doesnt.
There was a story that Porter jr. couldnt get out of bed after working out for a team because of severe hip pain. If its true, did the players in that study go through similar issues?
All the cloak and dagger about Porter jr's medical records is enough to want see the Knicks pass. If the team that has his medical records passes on him, when they are short at his position, long term. It feels like an unecessary risk with less info.
Not directly meant at you, but this is so funny. Just last year people were screaming that they didnt take Dennis Smith even though he had ACL surgeries AND he wouldnt give them his medical records. Now the kid is screaming he is ok and now people are saying pass. Until he plays well. Then we hear the crying.
The difference was that Smith jr. showed to be no worse for wear, and we're talking about a back injury.Porter jr. also had a recent hip injury that kept him in bed for a day. I didnt disagree with folks who thought his medical records was a legit reason to pass.on him.
Not the caricature of a me first, selfish coach killer, he was made out to be by some here. No complaints about Smith jr's attitude from one of the toughest coaches in the league.
Taking that perspective I would be even MORE wary of Smith. Because he is essentially saying "No you cant look at my records to determine a poosible long term issue, but pay me my money for the next 5 years". Im not saying he did that, but i still want to look at possible LONG term issues that may arise, as opposed to banking on short term sample sizes. That is very naive. Meanwhile, at least Porter is up front about everything.
Naive? Get bent. Porter couldnt get out of bed after workouts, and Smith jr. was doing windmill dunks before the draft. One player was ready to play, the other one still isnt 100 percent. Being upfront about your medical issues doesnt change them.
Get bent? Cool dude, 2005 wants their insult back. Why the hell are you so defensive? I didnt call you naive, i said for a team to not look at long term affects of any serious injury while banking on short term performance. It is naive to draft someone whose injury may cut their career shorter because of wear and tear on a repaired joint, just because the can windmill dunk (Your words, not mine) afterwards.
joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Uptown wrote:technomaster wrote:Well, if he has a short shelf life, can he be good enough early enough to be a difference maker. I think of Brandon Roy. Buddy had no cartilage in his knees. He was fantastic al-star talent for several years, then just couldn’t do it anymore.The more useless version is Jonathan Bender, whose entire career was taken from him, short of maybe a dozen impressive games on the Knicks. He should have been Anthony Davis but just was never healthy enough.
From what I read, there was a study of 61 nba players who had his type of procedure done. They all returned as good or better the 2nd year after the surgery.
Great post! Thanks for this info....
How old were they at the time of their procedure? Were they still growing at the time? How long were they in the league at the time of their injury? What position did they play? It should make me feel better about his health, but it doesnt.
There was a story that Porter jr. couldnt get out of bed after working out for a team because of severe hip pain. If its true, did the players in that study go through similar issues?
All the cloak and dagger about Porter jr's medical records is enough to want see the Knicks pass. If the team that has his medical records passes on him, when they are short at his position, long term. It feels like an unecessary risk with less info.
Not directly meant at you, but this is so funny. Just last year people were screaming that they didnt take Dennis Smith even though he had ACL surgeries AND he wouldnt give them his medical records. Now the kid is screaming he is ok and now people are saying pass. Until he plays well. Then we hear the crying.
The difference was that Smith jr. showed to be no worse for wear, and we're talking about a back injury.Porter jr. also had a recent hip injury that kept him in bed for a day. I didnt disagree with folks who thought his medical records was a legit reason to pass.on him.
Not the caricature of a me first, selfish coach killer, he was made out to be by some here. No complaints about Smith jr's attitude from one of the toughest coaches in the league.
Taking that perspective I would be even MORE wary of Smith. Because he is essentially saying "No you cant look at my records to determine a poosible long term issue, but pay me my money for the next 5 years". Im not saying he did that, but i still want to look at possible LONG term issues that may arise, as opposed to banking on short term sample sizes. That is very naive. Meanwhile, at least Porter is up front about everything.
Naive? Get bent. Porter couldnt get out of bed after workouts, and Smith jr. was doing windmill dunks before the draft. One player was ready to play, the other one still isnt 100 percent. Being upfront about your medical issues doesnt change them.
Get bent? Cool dude, 2005 wants their insult back. Why the hell are you so defensive? I didnt call you naive, i said for a team to not look at long term affects of any serious injury while banking on short term performance. It is naive to draft someone whose injury may cut their career shorter because of wear and tear on a repaired joint, just because the can windmill dunk (Your words, not mine) afterwards.
Actually that expression is a lot older. Telling someone their perspective is "very naive" is not a compliment in anyone's book. You might not hear it in a game of "Dozens" but its still an insult. Poor choice of words on your part.
I had just finished agreeing with you that Smith jr not showing his medical report was a legit reason to pass on him, but I guess that wasnt enough.
You brought up the comparison to Smith jr. You were also suggesting that it was the exact same situation with Porter jr.. Its not. One of them was 100 perecent and showing it. We still dont know if Porter jr will completely recover.
Smith jr regained all of his explosiveness. Much more risk with a player who has yet to prove he has completely healed, or will ever be the same player again. Smith fell to us because of the injury. I was for drafting Smith becuase he was a top pick before the injury and looked no worse for wear. No way is that the same situation as someone who cant out of his fing bed.