Knicks · If Kanter opts out, what do you do about the front court? (page 5)

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Markji wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

reub wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

Kanter is going to opt in, rain threes and increase his market value. Wait and see.

You say that likes it's far fetched or something. He's obviously been putting in plenty of practice at shooting 3's which he's been posting all the videos of and is something Fiz lets and tells his big men do, although i do think there's a chance he opts out, i still don't see him doing it and it's a contract year so he's gonna kill it next year. I really don't care either way if he opts in or out cause it's not gonna hurt us next season either way.

Unfortunately, it is far fetched.

Shooting with no one guarding you in an open gym, when you are well rested, and not getting beat up all game, not having to travel on back to backs, not nursing some nagging in season injury/pain, that's a different story from NBA game speed. Even shooting in some light scrimmages or non NBA games are not the same thing.

Here's the other issue. To be effective as a three point shooter, you actually also need the skill set to move without the ball. You don't need to go Joe Dumars on anyone, but you need to at least be league average in that department. Kanter is low IQ black hole with the ball in his hands. What he does now is run towards the basket, get the ball, and never give it up, and attack the cup. That's it. Out on the perimeter, he actually has to read the defense enough to help himself find good shots. He'll also have to put the ball on the floor. He'll also have to pass the ball at times because not every look ends up a clean look at the basket from long range.

Jason Kidd wasn't a super horrible transition from a horrible shooter to an OK one. He had a good handle. He could move without the ball. He could read the floor. He could make the pass when needed. He knew when to shoot and when to pass. Kanter is just gonna chuck it. He's a black hole now, he'll be a black hole forever. You stage him on the perimeter, he's gonna just get it and chuck it. He's going to make Corey Maggette look like John Stockon.

He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression.

It might be good to check stats before jumping to conclusions.
Kanter took a total of only 2 shots all year from 3 pt last year because those were his instructions from the head coach. He followed the instructions. In past years he has taken a few more 3 pt shots with a big variance from 13% to 75% on .2 shots per game to .8 shots per game.

When you say "He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression." that is just totally wrong. You didn't check Fizdale's last 2 coaching positions and how he developed the big men.

Miami - Chris Bosh - taking less than 1 3pt shot a game and less than 30% to in his last 3 years took 2.8; 3.8; 4.2 3pt shots making 34%; 38%; 37%. Taking many more shots than earlier years and a big improvement in %age.

Memphis - Marc Gasol - an even bigger improvement. Went from taking .1 or .2 3pt shots per game with 16% made to 3.6 and 4.4 3pt shots per game. hitting 36%.

So where do you come up with Kanter can't change and learn a 3 pt shot. In practice he is already doing great. He will transition that into his game.

I don't understand the hate for Kanter by some people. He is not a rim protector but he is a monster inside. Scoring; rebounding. And a great teammate. See Frank vs LeBron. I definitely want him back. He's probably the best center, and definitely the toughest center we have had since.....yes since then.

And last year he wasn't as bad as advertised on the defensive end. No, he wasn't great but he wasn't as big a liability as a lot of us feared. Now I assume this is where somebody posts some advance stat that is suppose to the be final word on any argument in spite of what you actually witnessed on the court.

http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK21.HTM
Look at KAnter's opposing FG%

Centers who play vs. Kanter light it up. Every night.

Kanter scores 27.8ppg with an EFG% of .593 per 48mins (thats good)
Opponents score 22.7 with an EFG% of .611 per 48mins (thats abysmal)

Effective FG% Allowed
54.0% (on court)
50.5% (off court)

Pretty much every metric, eye test, stat, game log, message forum and genie in a bottle all point to Kanter's defense being as horrible as advertised.

Guys like Greg Monroe have better opposing FG%s. Kanter's D is among the worst of any player getting minutes in the league

Check out his defensive numbers in the paint vs. the perimeter. Respectable in the paint, not so respectable on the perimeter.

which when it comes to defense means nothing...

I actually like Kanter. I think he can really help next year and even without KP I would not be surprised if the Knicks shock a lot of people. I think we have some pieces that can come together and play good basketball, maybe even a playoff berth in the weak east. Or we could win 18 games which would be fine... but I think we are better and Kanter is a big reason why. He's great on the glass, and he's a scorer.

The problem is as you mentioned.. if Kanter has to guard a player with a jumpshot he's the worst defensive player in the league. $18mm for next year is fine. I am moving on though and not offering him a long term deal. I like him as a 20mpg role player. But that's a $10mm a year guy, not the $20-$25mm a year he wants and expects. I think its that simple and means ba-bye after this deal is up, opt in or not.

fitzfarm wrote:I say you let kanter walk and start Kornet with Robinson backing him up. Noah, I’m pretty sure has already played his last NBA game.

Kornet is a good player and Robinson will be a nba player. We are not going anywhere next year with KP out. Focus on the lottery and start doing homework now on which prospects to select with a top 5 pick.

Find out if KP is ready for the center position, and draft accordingly.

This year coming up should be all about playing the youth.

Starting line up should be

Frank
Dotson
Knox
Beasley one year deal
Kornet

Bench:
Burke,Mudiay
Thjr,Baker
Williams, Allonzo Trier,Lee
Hicks, two way
Robinson, one year player

Player to move for picks:
Lee

Let’s keep the eye on the prize top 5 pick

Next year could be starting line up
Kyrie
Frank
Knox
KP
Top 5 pick

But who knows I’m just excited to see how the youth develops.

WTF,

Thats a G- league squad.

It's $5000 for court side seats at MSG for a regular season game.

You remember glen grunwald at no cap space and manage to sign felton, camby, rasheed, kidd, kmart, and re-sign novak.

knicks1248 wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:I say you let kanter walk and start Kornet with Robinson backing him up. Noah, I’m pretty sure has already played his last NBA game.

Kornet is a good player and Robinson will be a nba player. We are not going anywhere next year with KP out. Focus on the lottery and start doing homework now on which prospects to select with a top 5 pick.

Find out if KP is ready for the center position, and draft accordingly.

This year coming up should be all about playing the youth.

Starting line up should be

Frank
Dotson
Knox
Beasley one year deal
Kornet

Bench:
Burke,Mudiay
Thjr,Baker
Williams, Allonzo Trier,Lee
Hicks, two way
Robinson, one year player

Player to move for picks:
Lee

Let’s keep the eye on the prize top 5 pick

Next year could be starting line up
Kyrie
Frank
Knox
KP
Top 5 pick

But who knows I’m just excited to see how the youth develops.

WTF,

Thats a G- league squad.

It's $5000 for court side seats at MSG for a regular season game.

You remember glen grunwald at no cap space and manage to sign felton, camby, rasheed, kidd, kmart, and re-sign novak.

right... so those people want to see sustainable winning team. That has to be built which you totally cant grasp. Not even a little.

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Markji wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

reub wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

Kanter is going to opt in, rain threes and increase his market value. Wait and see.

You say that likes it's far fetched or something. He's obviously been putting in plenty of practice at shooting 3's which he's been posting all the videos of and is something Fiz lets and tells his big men do, although i do think there's a chance he opts out, i still don't see him doing it and it's a contract year so he's gonna kill it next year. I really don't care either way if he opts in or out cause it's not gonna hurt us next season either way.

Unfortunately, it is far fetched.

Shooting with no one guarding you in an open gym, when you are well rested, and not getting beat up all game, not having to travel on back to backs, not nursing some nagging in season injury/pain, that's a different story from NBA game speed. Even shooting in some light scrimmages or non NBA games are not the same thing.

Here's the other issue. To be effective as a three point shooter, you actually also need the skill set to move without the ball. You don't need to go Joe Dumars on anyone, but you need to at least be league average in that department. Kanter is low IQ black hole with the ball in his hands. What he does now is run towards the basket, get the ball, and never give it up, and attack the cup. That's it. Out on the perimeter, he actually has to read the defense enough to help himself find good shots. He'll also have to put the ball on the floor. He'll also have to pass the ball at times because not every look ends up a clean look at the basket from long range.

Jason Kidd wasn't a super horrible transition from a horrible shooter to an OK one. He had a good handle. He could move without the ball. He could read the floor. He could make the pass when needed. He knew when to shoot and when to pass. Kanter is just gonna chuck it. He's a black hole now, he'll be a black hole forever. You stage him on the perimeter, he's gonna just get it and chuck it. He's going to make Corey Maggette look like John Stockon.

He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression.

It might be good to check stats before jumping to conclusions.
Kanter took a total of only 2 shots all year from 3 pt last year because those were his instructions from the head coach. He followed the instructions. In past years he has taken a few more 3 pt shots with a big variance from 13% to 75% on .2 shots per game to .8 shots per game.

When you say "He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression." that is just totally wrong. You didn't check Fizdale's last 2 coaching positions and how he developed the big men.

Miami - Chris Bosh - taking less than 1 3pt shot a game and less than 30% to in his last 3 years took 2.8; 3.8; 4.2 3pt shots making 34%; 38%; 37%. Taking many more shots than earlier years and a big improvement in %age.

Memphis - Marc Gasol - an even bigger improvement. Went from taking .1 or .2 3pt shots per game with 16% made to 3.6 and 4.4 3pt shots per game. hitting 36%.

So where do you come up with Kanter can't change and learn a 3 pt shot. In practice he is already doing great. He will transition that into his game.

I don't understand the hate for Kanter by some people. He is not a rim protector but he is a monster inside. Scoring; rebounding. And a great teammate. See Frank vs LeBron. I definitely want him back. He's probably the best center, and definitely the toughest center we have had since.....yes since then.

And last year he wasn't as bad as advertised on the defensive end. No, he wasn't great but he wasn't as big a liability as a lot of us feared. Now I assume this is where somebody posts some advance stat that is suppose to the be final word on any argument in spite of what you actually witnessed on the court.

http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK21.HTM
Look at KAnter's opposing FG%

Centers who play vs. Kanter light it up. Every night.

Kanter scores 27.8ppg with an EFG% of .593 per 48mins (thats good)
Opponents score 22.7 with an EFG% of .611 per 48mins (thats abysmal)

Effective FG% Allowed
54.0% (on court)
50.5% (off court)

Pretty much every metric, eye test, stat, game log, message forum and genie in a bottle all point to Kanter's defense being as horrible as advertised.

Guys like Greg Monroe have better opposing FG%s. Kanter's D is among the worst of any player getting minutes in the league

Is that a typo? as I don't see how "centers who play vs Kanter light it up"???
In EFG% Kanter gives up 1.8% per 48 min. but....
in scoring Kanter scores 5.1 ppg more than opponents per 48 min. That = 22.5% more ppg. Kanter is "lighting up" his opponents, it seems to me or am I reading this wrong?

Kanter's opponents score 54% against him but Kanter scores 59.2% against all the other centers. That is 5.2% better which = 10% better in comparison.
Remember that Kanter started for us and played against the other teams starting centers, not their 2nd string.

I'd love to see these stats of Kanter rebounding vs opponents if you have those. Looking at the straight rebounding stats:
Total rebounds per game - Kanter is tied for 6th in the NBA with Embid at 11 rpg
Offensive rebounds per game Kanter is 4th in the entire NBA with 3.8 rpg

Kanter's position in total rebounds is with Kanter playing only 25:46 mpg while everyone else in the top 10 rebounds played over 30 mpg. and he still came in 4th ORB and 6th in TRB. I see a great rebounding center, not a poor center.

You and others keep saying how bad Kanter is and I keep seeing how good he is. Kanter isn't a Hall of Fame player, but he is damm good.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Markji wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

reub wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

Kanter is going to opt in, rain threes and increase his market value. Wait and see.

You say that likes it's far fetched or something. He's obviously been putting in plenty of practice at shooting 3's which he's been posting all the videos of and is something Fiz lets and tells his big men do, although i do think there's a chance he opts out, i still don't see him doing it and it's a contract year so he's gonna kill it next year. I really don't care either way if he opts in or out cause it's not gonna hurt us next season either way.

Unfortunately, it is far fetched.

Shooting with no one guarding you in an open gym, when you are well rested, and not getting beat up all game, not having to travel on back to backs, not nursing some nagging in season injury/pain, that's a different story from NBA game speed. Even shooting in some light scrimmages or non NBA games are not the same thing.

Here's the other issue. To be effective as a three point shooter, you actually also need the skill set to move without the ball. You don't need to go Joe Dumars on anyone, but you need to at least be league average in that department. Kanter is low IQ black hole with the ball in his hands. What he does now is run towards the basket, get the ball, and never give it up, and attack the cup. That's it. Out on the perimeter, he actually has to read the defense enough to help himself find good shots. He'll also have to put the ball on the floor. He'll also have to pass the ball at times because not every look ends up a clean look at the basket from long range.

Jason Kidd wasn't a super horrible transition from a horrible shooter to an OK one. He had a good handle. He could move without the ball. He could read the floor. He could make the pass when needed. He knew when to shoot and when to pass. Kanter is just gonna chuck it. He's a black hole now, he'll be a black hole forever. You stage him on the perimeter, he's gonna just get it and chuck it. He's going to make Corey Maggette look like John Stockon.

He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression.

It might be good to check stats before jumping to conclusions.
Kanter took a total of only 2 shots all year from 3 pt last year because those were his instructions from the head coach. He followed the instructions. In past years he has taken a few more 3 pt shots with a big variance from 13% to 75% on .2 shots per game to .8 shots per game.

When you say "He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression." that is just totally wrong. You didn't check Fizdale's last 2 coaching positions and how he developed the big men.

Miami - Chris Bosh - taking less than 1 3pt shot a game and less than 30% to in his last 3 years took 2.8; 3.8; 4.2 3pt shots making 34%; 38%; 37%. Taking many more shots than earlier years and a big improvement in %age.

Memphis - Marc Gasol - an even bigger improvement. Went from taking .1 or .2 3pt shots per game with 16% made to 3.6 and 4.4 3pt shots per game. hitting 36%.

So where do you come up with Kanter can't change and learn a 3 pt shot. In practice he is already doing great. He will transition that into his game.

I don't understand the hate for Kanter by some people. He is not a rim protector but he is a monster inside. Scoring; rebounding. And a great teammate. See Frank vs LeBron. I definitely want him back. He's probably the best center, and definitely the toughest center we have had since.....yes since then.

And last year he wasn't as bad as advertised on the defensive end. No, he wasn't great but he wasn't as big a liability as a lot of us feared. Now I assume this is where somebody posts some advance stat that is suppose to the be final word on any argument in spite of what you actually witnessed on the court.

http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK21.HTM
Look at KAnter's opposing FG%

Centers who play vs. Kanter light it up. Every night.

Kanter scores 27.8ppg with an EFG% of .593 per 48mins (thats good)
Opponents score 22.7 with an EFG% of .611 per 48mins (thats abysmal)

Effective FG% Allowed
54.0% (on court)
50.5% (off court)

Pretty much every metric, eye test, stat, game log, message forum and genie in a bottle all point to Kanter's defense being as horrible as advertised.

Guys like Greg Monroe have better opposing FG%s. Kanter's D is among the worst of any player getting minutes in the league

Check out his defensive numbers in the paint vs. the perimeter. Respectable in the paint, not so respectable on the perimeter.

which when it comes to defense means nothing...

I actually like Kanter. I think he can really help next year and even without KP I would not be surprised if the Knicks shock a lot of people. I think we have some pieces that can come together and play good basketball, maybe even a playoff berth in the weak east. Or we could win 18 games which would be fine... but I think we are better and Kanter is a big reason why. He's great on the glass, and he's a scorer.

The problem is as you mentioned.. if Kanter has to guard a player with a jumpshot he's the worst defensive player in the league. $18mm for next year is fine. I am moving on though and not offering him a long term deal. I like him as a 20mpg role player. But that's a $10mm a year guy, not the $20-$25mm a year he wants and expects. I think its that simple and means ba-bye after this deal is up, opt in or not.

Interior defense means nothing, got it. You and Martin keep peddling this crapola that Kanter is worth what we were paying Lopez 4 years ago. For one of the best post player/rebounders in the league. You sure Kanter would only take around 25 mill a year? Not possible that number is somewhere in between?

Have a feeling Kanter will decline his option bc the Knicks can just trade him during the season.
If that’s the case offer Randle that money at 12:01 Friday. I do like Kanter but like the combo of KP & Randle better.

knicks1248 wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:I say you let kanter walk and start Kornet with Robinson backing him up. Noah, I’m pretty sure has already played his last NBA game.

Kornet is a good player and Robinson will be a nba player. We are not going anywhere next year with KP out. Focus on the lottery and start doing homework now on which prospects to select with a top 5 pick.

Find out if KP is ready for the center position, and draft accordingly.

This year coming up should be all about playing the youth.

Starting line up should be

Frank
Dotson
Knox
Beasley one year deal
Kornet

Bench:
Burke,Mudiay
Thjr,Baker
Williams, Allonzo Trier,Lee
Hicks, two way
Robinson, one year player

Player to move for picks:
Lee

Let’s keep the eye on the prize top 5 pick

Next year could be starting line up
Kyrie
Frank
Knox
KP
Top 5 pick

But who knows I’m just excited to see how the youth develops.

WTF,

Thats a G- league squad.

It's $5000 for court side seats at MSG for a regular season game.

You remember glen grunwald at no cap space and manage to sign felton, camby, rasheed, kidd, kmart, and re-sign novak.

The thing with rebuilding is most everyone is G league until some step up. The Knicks are notorious for never letting anyone step up. The way to a core is by playing young players heavy minutes. Letting them take shots and give them a feeling of ownership of the team. The Knicks haven’t had a player walk through the doors feeling this is his team since Patrick Ewing.

With KP out for most if not the entire year, and Frank And Knox still young, the best thing that can happen is Enes offered a longer term contract elsewhere. This would ensure we secure a top 5 pick next year and by then Lee, and Beas and KOq and perhaps Thomas and even Noah may be off our sheets as he’ll be expiring. In the meantime, Noah, Kornet and a journeyman like Amir J can hold down the fort.
Knox, Frank, Burke, Tim, Dotson and perhaps Baker can all share minites and improve. If Robinson contributes in the G league and develops let him play the last 20 games w KP.

2019-2020

Kyrie (26)
Frank (20)
# top 5 pick (19)
KP (23)
Tim (27)?

Burke
Dotson
Robinson
Mudiay
Kornet

TLover wrote:Have a feeling Kanter will decline his option bc the Knicks can just trade him during the season.
If that’s the case offer Randle that money at 12:01 Friday. I do like Kanter but like the combo of KP & Randle better.

I think that is a good option. Randle is a good young player.

Kanter tweeted something with In and Out in it.

Does that mean we're working on signing and trading him?

The Wizards traded Gortat and don't seem to have a center except for Mahinmi. What if we signed Kanter and then traded him to Washington for Mahinmi and Kelly Oubre? What do you guys think of that trade?

reub wrote:Kanter tweeted something with In and Out in it.

Does that mean we're working on signing and trading him?

The Wizards traded Gortat and don't seem to have a center except for Mahinmi. What if we signed Kanter and then traded him to Washington for Mahinmi and Kelly Oubre? What do you guys think of that trade?

That would be a very good deal for NY. Oubre is a nice young player, and would fit in to the under 25 plan Mahinmi is solid backup type C.

I think you would still need a starting C and PF until KP come back. Can Noah do the job at C? For how long? Can Robinson even play in the NBA yet? This could be a very big issue this year.

I would not be sad if the Knicks would be 15-20 victory team next season. This is a rebuild process.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:I say you let kanter walk and start Kornet with Robinson backing him up. Noah, I’m pretty sure has already played his last NBA game.

Kornet is a good player and Robinson will be a nba player. We are not going anywhere next year with KP out. Focus on the lottery and start doing homework now on which prospects to select with a top 5 pick.

Find out if KP is ready for the center position, and draft accordingly.

This year coming up should be all about playing the youth.

Starting line up should be

Frank
Dotson
Knox
Beasley one year deal
Kornet

Bench:
Burke,Mudiay
Thjr,Baker
Williams, Allonzo Trier,Lee
Hicks, two way
Robinson, one year player

Player to move for picks:
Lee

Let’s keep the eye on the prize top 5 pick

Next year could be starting line up
Kyrie
Frank
Knox
KP
Top 5 pick

But who knows I’m just excited to see how the youth develops.

WTF,

Thats a G- league squad.

It's $5000 for court side seats at MSG for a regular season game.

You remember glen grunwald at no cap space and manage to sign felton, camby, rasheed, kidd, kmart, and re-sign novak.

right... so those people want to see sustainable winning team. That has to be built which you totally cant grasp. Not even a little.

Dude lets cut the pipe dream.

Developing young players without quality veterans is stupid, everyone knows that. Maybe that's what your not grasping. Without Balance nothing is sustainable and thats in life

Markji wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Markji wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

reub wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

Kanter is going to opt in, rain threes and increase his market value. Wait and see.

You say that likes it's far fetched or something. He's obviously been putting in plenty of practice at shooting 3's which he's been posting all the videos of and is something Fiz lets and tells his big men do, although i do think there's a chance he opts out, i still don't see him doing it and it's a contract year so he's gonna kill it next year. I really don't care either way if he opts in or out cause it's not gonna hurt us next season either way.

Unfortunately, it is far fetched.

Shooting with no one guarding you in an open gym, when you are well rested, and not getting beat up all game, not having to travel on back to backs, not nursing some nagging in season injury/pain, that's a different story from NBA game speed. Even shooting in some light scrimmages or non NBA games are not the same thing.

Here's the other issue. To be effective as a three point shooter, you actually also need the skill set to move without the ball. You don't need to go Joe Dumars on anyone, but you need to at least be league average in that department. Kanter is low IQ black hole with the ball in his hands. What he does now is run towards the basket, get the ball, and never give it up, and attack the cup. That's it. Out on the perimeter, he actually has to read the defense enough to help himself find good shots. He'll also have to put the ball on the floor. He'll also have to pass the ball at times because not every look ends up a clean look at the basket from long range.

Jason Kidd wasn't a super horrible transition from a horrible shooter to an OK one. He had a good handle. He could move without the ball. He could read the floor. He could make the pass when needed. He knew when to shoot and when to pass. Kanter is just gonna chuck it. He's a black hole now, he'll be a black hole forever. You stage him on the perimeter, he's gonna just get it and chuck it. He's going to make Corey Maggette look like John Stockon.

He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression.

It might be good to check stats before jumping to conclusions.
Kanter took a total of only 2 shots all year from 3 pt last year because those were his instructions from the head coach. He followed the instructions. In past years he has taken a few more 3 pt shots with a big variance from 13% to 75% on .2 shots per game to .8 shots per game.

When you say "He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression." that is just totally wrong. You didn't check Fizdale's last 2 coaching positions and how he developed the big men.

Miami - Chris Bosh - taking less than 1 3pt shot a game and less than 30% to in his last 3 years took 2.8; 3.8; 4.2 3pt shots making 34%; 38%; 37%. Taking many more shots than earlier years and a big improvement in %age.

Memphis - Marc Gasol - an even bigger improvement. Went from taking .1 or .2 3pt shots per game with 16% made to 3.6 and 4.4 3pt shots per game. hitting 36%.

So where do you come up with Kanter can't change and learn a 3 pt shot. In practice he is already doing great. He will transition that into his game.

I don't understand the hate for Kanter by some people. He is not a rim protector but he is a monster inside. Scoring; rebounding. And a great teammate. See Frank vs LeBron. I definitely want him back. He's probably the best center, and definitely the toughest center we have had since.....yes since then.

And last year he wasn't as bad as advertised on the defensive end. No, he wasn't great but he wasn't as big a liability as a lot of us feared. Now I assume this is where somebody posts some advance stat that is suppose to the be final word on any argument in spite of what you actually witnessed on the court.

http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK21.HTM
Look at KAnter's opposing FG%

Centers who play vs. Kanter light it up. Every night.

Kanter scores 27.8ppg with an EFG% of .593 per 48mins (thats good)
Opponents score 22.7 with an EFG% of .611 per 48mins (thats abysmal)

Effective FG% Allowed
54.0% (on court)
50.5% (off court)

Pretty much every metric, eye test, stat, game log, message forum and genie in a bottle all point to Kanter's defense being as horrible as advertised.

Guys like Greg Monroe have better opposing FG%s. Kanter's D is among the worst of any player getting minutes in the league

Is that a typo? as I don't see how "centers who play vs Kanter light it up"???
In EFG% Kanter gives up 1.8% per 48 min. but....
in scoring Kanter scores 5.1 ppg more than opponents per 48 min. That = 22.5% more ppg. Kanter is "lighting up" his opponents, it seems to me or am I reading this wrong?

Kanter's opponents score 54% against him but Kanter scores 59.2% against all the other centers. That is 5.2% better which = 10% better in comparison.
Remember that Kanter started for us and played against the other teams starting centers, not their 2nd string.

I'd love to see these stats of Kanter rebounding vs opponents if you have those. Looking at the straight rebounding stats:
Total rebounds per game - Kanter is tied for 6th in the NBA with Embid at 11 rpg
Offensive rebounds per game Kanter is 4th in the entire NBA with 3.8 rpg

Kanter's position in total rebounds is with Kanter playing only 25:46 mpg while everyone else in the top 10 rebounds played over 30 mpg. and he still came in 4th ORB and 6th in TRB. I see a great rebounding center, not a poor center.

You and others keep saying how bad Kanter is and I keep seeing how good he is. Kanter isn't a Hall of Fame player, but he is damm good.

Kanter scores and rebounds. He does those things very well. Nobody disputes that. The question is are those skills worth it and do they make the team better when you consider how bad his defense. As a role player for 20mpg and at a salary somewhere slightly above the MLE Kanter is a nice player. At $18mm and up he is not.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Markji wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

reub wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

Kanter is going to opt in, rain threes and increase his market value. Wait and see.

You say that likes it's far fetched or something. He's obviously been putting in plenty of practice at shooting 3's which he's been posting all the videos of and is something Fiz lets and tells his big men do, although i do think there's a chance he opts out, i still don't see him doing it and it's a contract year so he's gonna kill it next year. I really don't care either way if he opts in or out cause it's not gonna hurt us next season either way.

Unfortunately, it is far fetched.

Shooting with no one guarding you in an open gym, when you are well rested, and not getting beat up all game, not having to travel on back to backs, not nursing some nagging in season injury/pain, that's a different story from NBA game speed. Even shooting in some light scrimmages or non NBA games are not the same thing.

Here's the other issue. To be effective as a three point shooter, you actually also need the skill set to move without the ball. You don't need to go Joe Dumars on anyone, but you need to at least be league average in that department. Kanter is low IQ black hole with the ball in his hands. What he does now is run towards the basket, get the ball, and never give it up, and attack the cup. That's it. Out on the perimeter, he actually has to read the defense enough to help himself find good shots. He'll also have to put the ball on the floor. He'll also have to pass the ball at times because not every look ends up a clean look at the basket from long range.

Jason Kidd wasn't a super horrible transition from a horrible shooter to an OK one. He had a good handle. He could move without the ball. He could read the floor. He could make the pass when needed. He knew when to shoot and when to pass. Kanter is just gonna chuck it. He's a black hole now, he'll be a black hole forever. You stage him on the perimeter, he's gonna just get it and chuck it. He's going to make Corey Maggette look like John Stockon.

He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression.

It might be good to check stats before jumping to conclusions.
Kanter took a total of only 2 shots all year from 3 pt last year because those were his instructions from the head coach. He followed the instructions. In past years he has taken a few more 3 pt shots with a big variance from 13% to 75% on .2 shots per game to .8 shots per game.

When you say "He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression." that is just totally wrong. You didn't check Fizdale's last 2 coaching positions and how he developed the big men.

Miami - Chris Bosh - taking less than 1 3pt shot a game and less than 30% to in his last 3 years took 2.8; 3.8; 4.2 3pt shots making 34%; 38%; 37%. Taking many more shots than earlier years and a big improvement in %age.

Memphis - Marc Gasol - an even bigger improvement. Went from taking .1 or .2 3pt shots per game with 16% made to 3.6 and 4.4 3pt shots per game. hitting 36%.

So where do you come up with Kanter can't change and learn a 3 pt shot. In practice he is already doing great. He will transition that into his game.

I don't understand the hate for Kanter by some people. He is not a rim protector but he is a monster inside. Scoring; rebounding. And a great teammate. See Frank vs LeBron. I definitely want him back. He's probably the best center, and definitely the toughest center we have had since.....yes since then.

And last year he wasn't as bad as advertised on the defensive end. No, he wasn't great but he wasn't as big a liability as a lot of us feared. Now I assume this is where somebody posts some advance stat that is suppose to the be final word on any argument in spite of what you actually witnessed on the court.

http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK21.HTM
Look at KAnter's opposing FG%

Centers who play vs. Kanter light it up. Every night.

Kanter scores 27.8ppg with an EFG% of .593 per 48mins (thats good)
Opponents score 22.7 with an EFG% of .611 per 48mins (thats abysmal)

Effective FG% Allowed
54.0% (on court)
50.5% (off court)

Pretty much every metric, eye test, stat, game log, message forum and genie in a bottle all point to Kanter's defense being as horrible as advertised.

Guys like Greg Monroe have better opposing FG%s. Kanter's D is among the worst of any player getting minutes in the league

Check out his defensive numbers in the paint vs. the perimeter. Respectable in the paint, not so respectable on the perimeter.

which when it comes to defense means nothing...

I actually like Kanter. I think he can really help next year and even without KP I would not be surprised if the Knicks shock a lot of people. I think we have some pieces that can come together and play good basketball, maybe even a playoff berth in the weak east. Or we could win 18 games which would be fine... but I think we are better and Kanter is a big reason why. He's great on the glass, and he's a scorer.

The problem is as you mentioned.. if Kanter has to guard a player with a jumpshot he's the worst defensive player in the league. $18mm for next year is fine. I am moving on though and not offering him a long term deal. I like him as a 20mpg role player. But that's a $10mm a year guy, not the $20-$25mm a year he wants and expects. I think its that simple and means ba-bye after this deal is up, opt in or not.

Interior defense means nothing, got it. You and Martin keep peddling this crapola that Kanter is worth what we were paying Lopez 4 years ago. For one of the best post player/rebounders in the league. You sure Kanter would only take around 25 mill a year? Not possible that number is somewhere in between?

you keep peddling the crapola that Kanter is one of the best players in the league. Kanter's interior defense doesnt matter when you dont need to go there to exploit him. Harping on Kanter's interior defense is like talking about farts in the wind. Zero impact defensively on games and opposing centers have bloated EFF%

This is why Kanter lost his job to Steve Adams.

Paying a center who doesnt protect the rim and cant defend his position big money might be the dumbest thing I have heard Knick fans hope for... but every day is a new day.

TripleThreat wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

reub wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

Kanter is going to opt in, rain threes and increase his market value. Wait and see.

You say that likes it's far fetched or something. He's obviously been putting in plenty of practice at shooting 3's which he's been posting all the videos of and is something Fiz lets and tells his big men do, although i do think there's a chance he opts out, i still don't see him doing it and it's a contract year so he's gonna kill it next year. I really don't care either way if he opts in or out cause it's not gonna hurt us next season either way.

Unfortunately, it is far fetched.

Shooting with no one guarding you in an open gym, when you are well rested, and not getting beat up all game, not having to travel on back to backs, not nursing some nagging in season injury/pain, that's a different story from NBA game speed. Even shooting in some light scrimmages or non NBA games are not the same thing.

Here's the other issue. To be effective as a three point shooter, you actually also need the skill set to move without the ball. You don't need to go Joe Dumars on anyone, but you need to at least be league average in that department. Kanter is low IQ black hole with the ball in his hands. What he does now is run towards the basket, get the ball, and never give it up, and attack the cup. That's it. Out on the perimeter, he actually has to read the defense enough to help himself find good shots. He'll also have to put the ball on the floor. He'll also have to pass the ball at times because not every look ends up a clean look at the basket from long range.

Jason Kidd wasn't a super horrible transition from a horrible shooter to an OK one. He had a good handle. He could move without the ball. He could read the floor. He could make the pass when needed. He knew when to shoot and when to pass. Kanter is just gonna chuck it. He's a black hole now, he'll be a black hole forever. You stage him on the perimeter, he's gonna just get it and chuck it. He's going to make Corey Maggette look like John Stockon.

He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression.

Well thank you for all that but it's all just common sense things that any fan should know. It's not like anyone is saying Kanter is gonna become a chucker from 3 point land. He's not, all it is is if he's standing behind the 3 point line with the ball and his guy doesn't put the effort to run out to block him then he should be able to put that up from behind the 3 point line. Nobody is expecting him to shoot 35% from 3 point land either which i'm not sure any true center can do on a consistent basis. All i was saying is that if he has the ball back there with nobody on him then i'm fine with him putting it up.

Welpee wrote:

Markji wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

reub wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

Kanter is going to opt in, rain threes and increase his market value. Wait and see.

You say that likes it's far fetched or something. He's obviously been putting in plenty of practice at shooting 3's which he's been posting all the videos of and is something Fiz lets and tells his big men do, although i do think there's a chance he opts out, i still don't see him doing it and it's a contract year so he's gonna kill it next year. I really don't care either way if he opts in or out cause it's not gonna hurt us next season either way.

Unfortunately, it is far fetched.

Shooting with no one guarding you in an open gym, when you are well rested, and not getting beat up all game, not having to travel on back to backs, not nursing some nagging in season injury/pain, that's a different story from NBA game speed. Even shooting in some light scrimmages or non NBA games are not the same thing.

Here's the other issue. To be effective as a three point shooter, you actually also need the skill set to move without the ball. You don't need to go Joe Dumars on anyone, but you need to at least be league average in that department. Kanter is low IQ black hole with the ball in his hands. What he does now is run towards the basket, get the ball, and never give it up, and attack the cup. That's it. Out on the perimeter, he actually has to read the defense enough to help himself find good shots. He'll also have to put the ball on the floor. He'll also have to pass the ball at times because not every look ends up a clean look at the basket from long range.

Jason Kidd wasn't a super horrible transition from a horrible shooter to an OK one. He had a good handle. He could move without the ball. He could read the floor. He could make the pass when needed. He knew when to shoot and when to pass. Kanter is just gonna chuck it. He's a black hole now, he'll be a black hole forever. You stage him on the perimeter, he's gonna just get it and chuck it. He's going to make Corey Maggette look like John Stockon.

He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression.

It might be good to check stats before jumping to conclusions.
Kanter took a total of only 2 shots all year from 3 pt last year because those were his instructions from the head coach. He followed the instructions. In past years he has taken a few more 3 pt shots with a big variance from 13% to 75% on .2 shots per game to .8 shots per game.

When you say "He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression." that is just totally wrong. You didn't check Fizdale's last 2 coaching positions and how he developed the big men.

Miami - Chris Bosh - taking less than 1 3pt shot a game and less than 30% to in his last 3 years took 2.8; 3.8; 4.2 3pt shots making 34%; 38%; 37%. Taking many more shots than earlier years and a big improvement in %age.

Memphis - Marc Gasol - an even bigger improvement. Went from taking .1 or .2 3pt shots per game with 16% made to 3.6 and 4.4 3pt shots per game. hitting 36%.

So where do you come up with Kanter can't change and learn a 3 pt shot. In practice he is already doing great. He will transition that into his game.

I don't understand the hate for Kanter by some people. He is not a rim protector but he is a monster inside. Scoring; rebounding. And a great teammate. See Frank vs LeBron. I definitely want him back. He's probably the best center, and definitely the toughest center we have had since.....yes since then.

And last year he wasn't as bad as advertised on the defensive end. No, he wasn't great but he wasn't as big a liability as a lot of us feared. Now I assume this is where somebody posts some advance stat that is suppose to the be final word on any argument in spite of what you actually witnessed on the court.

Stat chasers are annoying and stats do not tell the truth on players all the time. It's like in baseball when a pitcher goes out and pitches 7 innings and gives up 10 earned runs and then goes out and pitching 7 innings and gives up zero earned runs he's still gonna have a very high ERA because of that one game he gave up 10 earned runs.

knicks1248 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:If O Quinn and Kanter leave, it's fine. Without KP this is another tank year anyway. Let the kids play! Kornet, Robinson should get plenty of time and we are paying oah 18 mill anyway. He'll want to showcase himself for free agency, so it would seem to work out.

KP is schedule to play about 50 to 60 games, right around his average.

KP has no schedule at all from the team on how many games he will play next year.

newyorker4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Throw $3 million at the Charlotte Hornets to bring Willy Hernangomez home! He never should've been traded to begin with; maybe Fizdale's program might help him improve defensively. It's worth a try, since we'd have ample minutes at the 5 and are in developmental mode.

They just traded Dwight Howard away so they aren't gonna trade Willy now.

I clearly heard Perry and FIZ say players will earn minutes, which JH said the same thing, and willy didn't see much of an increase in PT even after he was traded. There's also better options out there.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Markji wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

reub wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

Kanter is going to opt in, rain threes and increase his market value. Wait and see.

You say that likes it's far fetched or something. He's obviously been putting in plenty of practice at shooting 3's which he's been posting all the videos of and is something Fiz lets and tells his big men do, although i do think there's a chance he opts out, i still don't see him doing it and it's a contract year so he's gonna kill it next year. I really don't care either way if he opts in or out cause it's not gonna hurt us next season either way.

Unfortunately, it is far fetched.

Shooting with no one guarding you in an open gym, when you are well rested, and not getting beat up all game, not having to travel on back to backs, not nursing some nagging in season injury/pain, that's a different story from NBA game speed. Even shooting in some light scrimmages or non NBA games are not the same thing.

Here's the other issue. To be effective as a three point shooter, you actually also need the skill set to move without the ball. You don't need to go Joe Dumars on anyone, but you need to at least be league average in that department. Kanter is low IQ black hole with the ball in his hands. What he does now is run towards the basket, get the ball, and never give it up, and attack the cup. That's it. Out on the perimeter, he actually has to read the defense enough to help himself find good shots. He'll also have to put the ball on the floor. He'll also have to pass the ball at times because not every look ends up a clean look at the basket from long range.

Jason Kidd wasn't a super horrible transition from a horrible shooter to an OK one. He had a good handle. He could move without the ball. He could read the floor. He could make the pass when needed. He knew when to shoot and when to pass. Kanter is just gonna chuck it. He's a black hole now, he'll be a black hole forever. You stage him on the perimeter, he's gonna just get it and chuck it. He's going to make Corey Maggette look like John Stockon.

He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression.

It might be good to check stats before jumping to conclusions.
Kanter took a total of only 2 shots all year from 3 pt last year because those were his instructions from the head coach. He followed the instructions. In past years he has taken a few more 3 pt shots with a big variance from 13% to 75% on .2 shots per game to .8 shots per game.

When you say "He's outside his prime developmental window. There's no long term progression to indicate a league average three point shot is coming. It doesn't just flip like a light switch. It's a multiple season progression." that is just totally wrong. You didn't check Fizdale's last 2 coaching positions and how he developed the big men.

Miami - Chris Bosh - taking less than 1 3pt shot a game and less than 30% to in his last 3 years took 2.8; 3.8; 4.2 3pt shots making 34%; 38%; 37%. Taking many more shots than earlier years and a big improvement in %age.

Memphis - Marc Gasol - an even bigger improvement. Went from taking .1 or .2 3pt shots per game with 16% made to 3.6 and 4.4 3pt shots per game. hitting 36%.

So where do you come up with Kanter can't change and learn a 3 pt shot. In practice he is already doing great. He will transition that into his game.

I don't understand the hate for Kanter by some people. He is not a rim protector but he is a monster inside. Scoring; rebounding. And a great teammate. See Frank vs LeBron. I definitely want him back. He's probably the best center, and definitely the toughest center we have had since.....yes since then.

And last year he wasn't as bad as advertised on the defensive end. No, he wasn't great but he wasn't as big a liability as a lot of us feared. Now I assume this is where somebody posts some advance stat that is suppose to the be final word on any argument in spite of what you actually witnessed on the court.

http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK21.HTM
Look at KAnter's opposing FG%

Centers who play vs. Kanter light it up. Every night.

Kanter scores 27.8ppg with an EFG% of .593 per 48mins (thats good)
Opponents score 22.7 with an EFG% of .611 per 48mins (thats abysmal)

Effective FG% Allowed
54.0% (on court)
50.5% (off court)

Pretty much every metric, eye test, stat, game log, message forum and genie in a bottle all point to Kanter's defense being as horrible as advertised.

Guys like Greg Monroe have better opposing FG%s. Kanter's D is among the worst of any player getting minutes in the league

Check out his defensive numbers in the paint vs. the perimeter. Respectable in the paint, not so respectable on the perimeter.

which when it comes to defense means nothing...

I actually like Kanter. I think he can really help next year and even without KP I would not be surprised if the Knicks shock a lot of people. I think we have some pieces that can come together and play good basketball, maybe even a playoff berth in the weak east. Or we could win 18 games which would be fine... but I think we are better and Kanter is a big reason why. He's great on the glass, and he's a scorer.

The problem is as you mentioned.. if Kanter has to guard a player with a jumpshot he's the worst defensive player in the league. $18mm for next year is fine. I am moving on though and not offering him a long term deal. I like him as a 20mpg role player. But that's a $10mm a year guy, not the $20-$25mm a year he wants and expects. I think its that simple and means ba-bye after this deal is up, opt in or not.

Interior defense means nothing, got it. You and Martin keep peddling this crapola that Kanter is worth what we were paying Lopez 4 years ago. For one of the best post player/rebounders in the league. You sure Kanter would only take around 25 mill a year? Not possible that number is somewhere in between?

you keep peddling the crapola that Kanter is one of the best players in the league. Kanter's interior defense doesnt matter when you dont need to go there to exploit him. Harping on Kanter's interior defense is like talking about farts in the wind. Zero impact defensively on games and opposing centers have bloated EFF%

This is why Kanter lost his job to Steve Adams.

Paying a center who doesnt protect the rim and cant defend his position big money might be the dumbest thing I have heard Knick fans hope for... but every day is a new day.

BS. I never once said Kanter was one of the best overall players in the league, I have been very specific about his skill set. Kanter does protect the rim, check the numbers.

Doesnt make a lot of blocks, but he knows how to stay in front of his man in the post, and contest the shot. Adams is a better all round defender than Kanter.

OKC didnt want to give up Kanter, but they were desperate for Melo. You think they want that trade back? Not wanting Kanter is one thing, saying he's worth what a big was getting on the low end, years ago, with a different cap, is silly.

Paying Kanter around what he makes now considering the cap will be going up again, isnt overpaying.

We dont have a starting center yet. We might have one in Robinson, in a couple of seasons, maybe sooner. In the meantime having Kanter start until Robinson is ready, is a good way to smooth the transition. We arent contending for a few years.

Wont teach him to be a star defender from the perimeter, but Kanter can teach post moves, positioning, rebounding. Then Kanter can move to the bench, and be instant offense off the bench when the Knicks are hopefully ready to make some waves.

I'm putting this up not to show statistics but to show Kanter's hustle:

He sprints up court to get in position;
Kanter then sprints back to get in position for defense;
then Kanter sprints upcourt to get in position for offense.

Then his supposedly bad defense. Really. Watch him sprint to get into position and keep pushing the opposing center (sometimes Dwight Howard) out of the paint and out of position.

I think people are just regurgitating comments about his defense and not watching his games. He is not perfect and he, like every NBA player gets beaten. But Kanter is a tough player and plays hard. And he is worth the $18 million if he opts in.