Knicks · Between Knox, Robinson and Trier, who do you think will have the best rookie year? (page 2)
That's why there's hate on this board. Trier being undrafted is not really an excuse because his play style and tunnel vision just blow. Give me an undrafted guy who can rebound, switch, and defend the hell out of the other player like a Roberson. That's the player I covet. Not iso scorers who give up more than they score and are net negatives on the court.
FROM ARTICLE
To date, Trier, averaging 17 points, has outplayed Dotson, who has shot 6-of-24 in the three games and was a minus-37 vs. the Lakers.
But as a basketball specialist, I know what talent looks like. Trier has the talent. He just needs some coaching. Again, frank has the talent, but heres the difference....Coaching is not going to help Frank be aggressive.....It's his DNA....just like i's Triers DNA to score. But if he ever figures out how to balance the two, move over Frank, Dotson, Baker, Mudiay.....
BigDaddyG wrote:blkexec wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:stanleybostitch wrote:CrushAlot wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:I think Knox will have the best year of the 3, but the Trier hatred I'm reading at times is quite astounding.This. Some of the sorry summer league teams the Knicks were sending to Orlando every year never had a guy as talented as Trier. He's a Knick. Not sure why there is so much hate for him. In regards to who has the best rookie year, it will be Knox.He's our player now, and while he's developing on D, he's already shown some NBA level offensive skills. He can shoot...he is a good 1/1 player, he goes to the basket and finishes or draws fouls, and he shows a lot of confidence on the offensive end.
He had 5 assists yesterday, and only 2 turnovers, along with those 21 pts and 10 rebounds. In most cases guys around here would be ecstatic with numbers like that. Fizdale seems to be letting guys do their own thing in SL, and I see what he and Knox are doing as very similar.
He still has a way to go as a defender, but I haven't seen anything that would prevent him from defending at this level dedicates himself to it.
Look at Burke...took him 5 years, but he seems to have worked on his D, and now he's going to be an important player on our team.
I also see Trier as a combo-guard- looks like he can penetrate at will, and if you can do that, you can help others score. His assist numbers went up at Arizona...he finished with 3 his final year, and I can seem him being an emergency PG at times. I expect they'll have him playing some PG in the G-League, by the way.
The guy was undrafted, for goodness sake...He is a ball player, and not a stiff. I look at him as I do any new player- he has strengths and he has things to work on, and until I see an inability to improve, I'll assume that we have coaches who will develop him the right way.
It's the eye test for me. Watching Trier in SL is painful. He has blinders on when he gets the ball, looks for no one and only looking for his own shot. Can you change that with coaching? I hope so, but agree with others that he needs a full season in G League to learn that bball is a _team_ sport.
Agree with Crush and Walt. And agree that Trier needs to improve his all around team game. But agree that there seems to be a lot of hate for players that are aggressive and are better on the offensive side. Understand the desire for most Knick fans to want hard working defensive players. Reason why everyone assumes/defends Frank for his inability to play on the offensive side. Yet guys that need to improve on defense seem to be judged quite early and are labeled selfish players around here. Todays NBA is about having multiple talented offensive players on the team. If Knick fans truly want to win its not going to be about having 5 Frank types on the court. Its about getting guys that can score and shoot. Knox is a good example. Think Trier still has a lot to learn but he clearly has offensive talents. Agree with you that he needs some time in the D League.
As for thread topic. Knox is capable of having a Tatum type year. Love the pick. Give credit to the FO for doing their due diligence.
Thank you for saving my fingers. All I have to say is ditto.
We finally got our own homegrown gunner in Trier....And he getting beat up for his defense. If he had the entire package.. he would've beendrafted in the 1st or 2nd round. .The undrafted FAs is where u draft players with a specialty. and hope with good character he will fill in his weaknesses. With our staff Pg heavy....I think they will have fun with Trier. Dotson I thought was a more complete player....and might be. But if he doesn't wake up and trier continues his play...same with williamson.....Fiz is not afraid to play these guys. . ...He plays like those street ball kids....they share iso ball plays. And when u need a bucket....play is busted.....Guards like Trier and trey burke can get their own shot. U need players on the roster with that skill set. Not too many but a nice balance. which is what we have. balance or iso and system players.
The problem with Trier right now is that he's not going to get that level of useage in the NBA. Be s not Harden, Beal, Butler etc. He's more along the line of Nordan Crawford. I agree that ISO ball is a necessary evil. But thaat's reserved for guys like Kobe or Melo in their prime. Guys that could hit difficult shots at average, or better, league shooting percentages. I'm not saying he's a lost cause, but be has a lot of work to do.
This is why I love Fiz....Harden? Beal? Crawford?
Why put him in a box? Let him be who he is.....And right now, nobody knows what that is. I do know he can get buckets.....And I can't say that about too many other players on this team. As an undrafted rookie, I will take that.
blkexec wrote:Well....I guess myself and the coaching staff are all wrong about Trier. And you guys (aka real knick fans) that hate on Trier are the true experts. I get it. He's still a young kid with an NBA skill as a scorer....His crossover and step back move is unguardable....I don't care who you are. All you can do is hope he miss. Now imagine how his game will look after 1 yr of NBA experience. You dont have to be Kobe or Lebron to have the green light. All you need is the ball in one hand, and the shot clock counting down to one.....He's our best ISO player on the team....Think about that. Knox can get to the line....Burke can hit tough mid range shots. But Trier has that hesi - crossover with a step back.....He clearly creates more room betweeen him and his man than most people. And as the article says, he ran the point all game. Now yes, thats probably why we lost....sure....Thats doesnt take away his offensive skill set. He's a legit combo guard like Frank....One specializes on scoring......The other on defense.FROM ARTICLE
To date, Trier, averaging 17 points, has outplayed Dotson, who has shot 6-of-24 in the three games and was a minus-37 vs. the Lakers.
Perspective: Dotson had a true shooting percentage of 59% and a three-point shooting percentage just south of 40% in the G-League. Plus he put up 30 in an NBA game. Trier had one solid game out of three in the summer league.
blkexec wrote:Well....I guess myself and the coaching staff are all wrong about Trier. And you guys (aka real knick fans) that hate on Trier are the true experts. I get it. He's still a young kid with an NBA skill as a scorer....His crossover and step back move is unguardable....I don't care who you are. All you can do is hope he miss. Now imagine how his game will look after 1 yr of NBA experience. You dont have to be Kobe or Lebron to have the green light. All you need is the ball in one hand, and the shot clock counting down to one.....He's our best ISO player on the team....Think about that. Knox can get to the line....Burke can hit tough mid range shots. But Trier has that hesi - crossover with a step back.....He clearly creates more room betweeen him and his man than most people. And as the article says, he ran the point all game. Now yes, thats probably why we lost....sure....Thats doesnt take away his offensive skill set. He's a legit combo guard like Frank....One specializes on scoring......The other on defense.FROM ARTICLE
To date, Trier, averaging 17 points, has outplayed Dotson, who has shot 6-of-24 in the three games and was a minus-37 vs. the Lakers.
You are wrong about Trier.
No one hates him. People are pointing out legitimate questions about his game and style of play. He's a zero on defense and his best chance to stay in an NBA rotation is to be carried by his offense. Nothing about his offense so far says he can be a CONSISTENT SHOOT FIRST BALL DOMINANT GUNNER night after night against NBA grade competition and having opposing teams gameplan and adjust against him.
Could it happen? Yes. Likely to happen? No. His current play shows it's likely to happen? No.
If you score 20 but give up 40 on the other end, who gives a shit?
He's talented and has some interesting skills, but he's not so talented that he can afford to be this one dimensional.
Is there a role and a big one for being able to create your own shot in isolation and look for your own shot first? Yes, but it has to be balanced with being able to play a bunch of different ways to adjust/counteradjust to what the other team is doing. You are making it mutually exclusive so you don't have to address the basic reality of it.
Trier is not playing fundamental team basketball. You'll say, that's not his game. Well, he's a fringe roster guy. He can't afford to be dogmatic about what he does on the court to the detriment of his team and making it in the NBA.
Trier is like a girl who is a 4 but thinks she's a 10. Trier doesn't want to play real team ball. Well the girl who is a 4 doesn't want to have to develop a personality, she just wants to show off her jugs and get free stuff. But when you don't have that kind of pull, you need to make adjustments. A hot 10 of a girl can afford to be bland. Even a bitch. A 4 though, she's gonna have to learn to cook and how to tell a good joke and sooth a man's ego.
This "Blame the fans" routine you do is really some narcissistic ass bullshit if you ask me. Jesus H Christ, everything really is not all about you.
blkexec wrote:Keep in mind...The dude I actually saw and played with in person is Mitchell Robinson. But I still think he needs time in the G league. Same with Trier. But I can also see both players getting NBA playing time as well, especially how Fiz develops his players.But as a basketball specialist, I know what talent looks like. Trier has the talent. He just needs some coaching. Again, frank has the talent, but heres the difference....Coaching is not going to help Frank be aggressive.....It's his DNA....just like i's Triers DNA to score. But if he ever figures out how to balance the two, move over Frank, Dotson, Baker, Mudiay.....
Agreed...I said that Trier is a better player than Dotson on draft night and nothing about their performances in summer league has changed my thinking....in todays NBA, you nerd a guy who can create his own shot and Trier can do that exceptionally well....Dude wen5 undrafted for a reason so not sure why people are getting on him for not being a complete all around player. Right now he is a specialist, instant offense off the bench...Guys have made long careers out of that speciality...
TripleThreat wrote:blkexec wrote:Well....I guess myself and the coaching staff are all wrong about Trier. And you guys (aka real knick fans) that hate on Trier are the true experts. I get it. He's still a young kid with an NBA skill as a scorer....His crossover and step back move is unguardable....I don't care who you are. All you can do is hope he miss. Now imagine how his game will look after 1 yr of NBA experience. You dont have to be Kobe or Lebron to have the green light. All you need is the ball in one hand, and the shot clock counting down to one.....He's our best ISO player on the team....Think about that. Knox can get to the line....Burke can hit tough mid range shots. But Trier has that hesi - crossover with a step back.....He clearly creates more room betweeen him and his man than most people. And as the article says, he ran the point all game. Now yes, thats probably why we lost....sure....Thats doesnt take away his offensive skill set. He's a legit combo guard like Frank....One specializes on scoring......The other on defense.FROM ARTICLE
To date, Trier, averaging 17 points, has outplayed Dotson, who has shot 6-of-24 in the three games and was a minus-37 vs. the Lakers.You are wrong about Trier.
No one hates him. People are pointing out legitimate questions about his game and style of play. He's a zero on defense and his best chance to stay in an NBA rotation is to be carried by his offense. Nothing about his offense so far says he can be a CONSISTENT SHOOT FIRST BALL DOMINANT GUNNER night after night against NBA grade competition and having opposing teams gameplan and adjust against him.
Could it happen? Yes. Likely to happen? No. His current play shows it's likely to happen? No.
If you score 20 but give up 40 on the other end, who gives a shit?
He's talented and has some interesting skills, but he's not so talented that he can afford to be this one dimensional.
Is there a role and a big one for being able to create your own shot in isolation and look for your own shot first? Yes, but it has to be balanced with being able to play a bunch of different ways to adjust/counteradjust to what the other team is doing. You are making it mutually exclusive so you don't have to address the basic reality of it.
Trier is not playing fundamental team basketball. You'll say, that's not his game. Well, he's a fringe roster guy. He can't afford to be dogmatic about what he does on the court to the detriment of his team and making it in the NBA.
Trier is like a girl who is a 4 but thinks she's a 10. Trier doesn't want to play real team ball. Well the girl who is a 4 doesn't want to have to develop a personality, she just wants to show off her jugs and get free stuff. But when you don't have that kind of pull, you need to make adjustments. A hot 10 of a girl can afford to be bland. Even a bitch. A 4 though, she's gonna have to learn to cook and how to tell a good joke and sooth a man's ego.
This "Blame the fans" routine you do is really some narcissistic ass bullshit if you ask me. Jesus H Christ, everything really is not all about you.
lol blkexec is like your Frank emotional trigger for knicks1248, and he barely does anything really
TripleThreat wrote:blkexec wrote:Well....I guess myself and the coaching staff are all wrong about Trier. And you guys (aka real knick fans) that hate on Trier are the true experts. I get it. He's still a young kid with an NBA skill as a scorer....His crossover and step back move is unguardable....I don't care who you are. All you can do is hope he miss. Now imagine how his game will look after 1 yr of NBA experience. You dont have to be Kobe or Lebron to have the green light. All you need is the ball in one hand, and the shot clock counting down to one.....He's our best ISO player on the team....Think about that. Knox can get to the line....Burke can hit tough mid range shots. But Trier has that hesi - crossover with a step back.....He clearly creates more room betweeen him and his man than most people. And as the article says, he ran the point all game. Now yes, thats probably why we lost....sure....Thats doesnt take away his offensive skill set. He's a legit combo guard like Frank....One specializes on scoring......The other on defense.FROM ARTICLE
To date, Trier, averaging 17 points, has outplayed Dotson, who has shot 6-of-24 in the three games and was a minus-37 vs. the Lakers.You are wrong about Trier.
No one hates him. People are pointing out legitimate questions about his game and style of play. He's a zero on defense and his best chance to stay in an NBA rotation is to be carried by his offense. Nothing about his offense so far says he can be a CONSISTENT SHOOT FIRST BALL DOMINANT GUNNER night after night against NBA grade competition and having opposing teams gameplan and adjust against him.
Could it happen? Yes. Likely to happen? No. His current play shows it's likely to happen? No.
If you score 20 but give up 40 on the other end, who gives a shit?
He's talented and has some interesting skills, but he's not so talented that he can afford to be this one dimensional.
Is there a role and a big one for being able to create your own shot in isolation and look for your own shot first? Yes, but it has to be balanced with being able to play a bunch of different ways to adjust/counteradjust to what the other team is doing. You are making it mutually exclusive so you don't have to address the basic reality of it.
Trier is not playing fundamental team basketball. You'll say, that's not his game. Well, he's a fringe roster guy. He can't afford to be dogmatic about what he does on the court to the detriment of his team and making it in the NBA.
Trier is like a girl who is a 4 but thinks she's a 10. Trier doesn't want to play real team ball. Well the girl who is a 4 doesn't want to have to develop a personality, she just wants to show off her jugs and get free stuff. But when you don't have that kind of pull, you need to make adjustments. A hot 10 of a girl can afford to be bland. Even a bitch. A 4 though, she's gonna have to learn to cook and how to tell a good joke and sooth a man's ego.
This "Blame the fans" routine you do is really some narcissistic ass bullshit if you ask me. Jesus H Christ, everything really is not all about you.
Have a nice day sir.....we done
Uptown wrote:blkexec wrote:Keep in mind...The dude I actually saw and played with in person is Mitchell Robinson. But I still think he needs time in the G league. Same with Trier. But I can also see both players getting NBA playing time as well, especially how Fiz develops his players.But as a basketball specialist, I know what talent looks like. Trier has the talent. He just needs some coaching. Again, frank has the talent, but heres the difference....Coaching is not going to help Frank be aggressive.....It's his DNA....just like i's Triers DNA to score. But if he ever figures out how to balance the two, move over Frank, Dotson, Baker, Mudiay.....
Agreed...I said that Trier is a better player than Dotson on draft night and nothing about their performances in summer league has changed my thinking....in todays NBA, you nerd a guy who can create his own shot and Trier can do that exceptionally well....Dude wen5 undrafted for a reason so not sure why people are getting on him for not being a complete all around player. Right now he is a specialist, instant offense off the bench...Guys have made long careers out of that speciality...
Thank you.....That's all I was saying. OK....the word hate might be a trigger for some fans.....I will change it to negative attention that's not deserved.
Players are like stock. Even if we don't want him or doesn't fit.....hes still a plYer with potential for a trade down the line. I just feel like he will get it....don't know when or on which team.
Knox I expect to get heavier minutes than Frank or KP did in rookie years and I expect Fiz is going to put the ball in his hands a bunch. Expect ups and downs but big rookie year for Knox...as always 1 key staying healthy.
Uptown wrote:blkexec wrote:Keep in mind...The dude I actually saw and played with in person is Mitchell Robinson. But I still think he needs time in the G league. Same with Trier. But I can also see both players getting NBA playing time as well, especially how Fiz develops his players.But as a basketball specialist, I know what talent looks like. Trier has the talent. He just needs some coaching. Again, frank has the talent, but heres the difference....Coaching is not going to help Frank be aggressive.....It's his DNA....just like i's Triers DNA to score. But if he ever figures out how to balance the two, move over Frank, Dotson, Baker, Mudiay.....
Agreed...I said that Trier is a better player than Dotson on draft night and nothing about their performances in summer league has changed my thinking....in todays NBA, you nerd a guy who can create his own shot and Trier can do that exceptionally well....Dude wen5 undrafted for a reason so not sure why people are getting on him for not being a complete all around player. Right now he is a specialist, instant offense off the bench...Guys have made long careers out of that speciality...
Trier (who I’m not sold on yet) has already shown an affinity and ability to get to the rim with both aggression plus creativity to finish. That gives him a big edge on Dotson in that regard but last based on last year I would think Dotson would be better defender & shooter. Dotson has been dreadfully disappointing thus far. As bad as his O has been his D has been worse.
Hopefully he is either sluggish due to too much lifting or he is injured and not saying so.
NEWS FLASH.....open forums are designed for fans to Express their view point about their favorite team.
LivingLegend wrote:I expect Trier & Robinson to be bouncing back and forth between D League & Knicks.Knox I expect to get heavier minutes than Frank or KP did in rookie years and I expect Fiz is going to put the ball in his hands a bunch. Expect ups and downs but big rookie year for Knox...as always 1 key staying healthy.
Sounds about right. I wouldnt be surprised if Troy Williams is signed, and starting to open the season. Looks like he will be ready.
82 games can add up, and Troy gives Fizdale the luxury of gradually increasing Kevin's minutes. He's 18, shouldnt be a rush to start him.
meloshouldgo wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:KNox.The others will not be in the NBA all year. Trier is a G league player. Robinson too but his athleticism may keep him in the NBA.
Robinson had not impressed me, but i hope to see more of him. Knox has looked good, but i don't think he is a creator on offense. Trier looks horrible.
I didn't watch the full game, but the part i did watch, i couldn't agree with you more, but then this morning i read this..
Remember these are the David Fizdale Knicks of positionless basketball.According to sources, failed PED tests were not the overriding reason the Arizona sharpshooter didn’t get drafted, allowing the Knicks to snag him on a two-way G-League contract. It was partly Trier’s reputation as a shot-happy player who rarely looked to set up teammates.
Trier torpedoed that label Tuesday in the Knicks’ loss to the Lakers. The 6-foot-5 guard racked up 21 points, five assists and 10 rebounds. He shot 8-of-13 from the field.
knicks1248 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:KNox.The others will not be in the NBA all year. Trier is a G league player. Robinson too but his athleticism may keep him in the NBA.
Robinson had not impressed me, but i hope to see more of him. Knox has looked good, but i don't think he is a creator on offense. Trier looks horrible.
I didn't watch the full game, but the part i did watch, i couldn't agree with you more, but then this morning i read this..
Remember these are the David Fizdale Knicks of positionless basketball.According to sources, failed PED tests were not the overriding reason the Arizona sharpshooter didn’t get drafted, allowing the Knicks to snag him on a two-way G-League contract. It was partly Trier’s reputation as a shot-happy player who rarely looked to set up teammates.
Trier torpedoed that label Tuesday in the Knicks’ loss to the Lakers. The 6-foot-5 guard racked up 21 points, five assists and 10 rebounds. He shot 8-of-13 from the field.
I think Melo and JR and all the other gunners we've had hurt our viewpoint on Trier. JR and Melo are not bad players. But they are stuck in their ways. But if Trier is a young JR....Like somebody said. Is that a problem? For an undrafted rookie.. I think that's a compliment.
knicks1248 wrote:Can Robinson shoot outside the paint?
He worked on that during the summer.....from what i saw. But it's still a raw skill for him.
blkexec wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Can Robinson shoot outside the paint?He worked on that during the summer.....from what i saw. But it's still a raw skill for him.
I just had surgery. so i haven't been in the gym for a while. The funny thing is. . I asked my buddy that works at lifetime. B4 the draft i asked how's mitchell doing. He said his jumper is terrible . His very first comment. That means hes working on it. Cause i saw with my own eyes....shooting around not in a game. He was making long 3s. So he has the potential and working on it is a good sign. Hanging with Anthony Davis is a good sign. Give mitchell 2 yrs and he will be ready.
blkexec wrote:blkexec wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Can Robinson shoot outside the paint?He worked on that during the summer.....from what i saw. But it's still a raw skill for him.
I just had surgery. so i haven't been in the gym for a while. The funny thing is. . I asked my buddy that works at lifetime. B4 the draft i asked how's mitchell doing. He said his jumper is terrible . His very first comment. That means hes working on it. Cause i saw with my own eyes....shooting around not in a game. He was making long 3s. So he has the potential and working on it is a good sign. Hanging with Anthony Davis is a good sign. Give mitchell 2 yrs and he will be ready.
That was my uninformed guess as well, 2 years min before he is a competent big in the rotation and starts to really shine IF everything works out.
blkexec wrote:knicks1248 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:KNox.The others will not be in the NBA all year. Trier is a G league player. Robinson too but his athleticism may keep him in the NBA.
Robinson had not impressed me, but i hope to see more of him. Knox has looked good, but i don't think he is a creator on offense. Trier looks horrible.
I didn't watch the full game, but the part i did watch, i couldn't agree with you more, but then this morning i read this..
Remember these are the David Fizdale Knicks of positionless basketball.According to sources, failed PED tests were not the overriding reason the Arizona sharpshooter didn’t get drafted, allowing the Knicks to snag him on a two-way G-League contract. It was partly Trier’s reputation as a shot-happy player who rarely looked to set up teammates.
Trier torpedoed that label Tuesday in the Knicks’ loss to the Lakers. The 6-foot-5 guard racked up 21 points, five assists and 10 rebounds. He shot 8-of-13 from the field.
I think Melo and JR and all the other gunners we've had hurt our viewpoint on Trier. JR and Melo are not bad players. But they are stuck in their ways. But if Trier is a young JR....Like somebody said. Is that a problem? For an undrafted rookie.. I think that's a compliment.
As long as he is efficient there will be a role and opportunity for him. As an undrafted FA him making any type of career for himself would be a plus for the Knicks given low price it cost to obtain him.
Had higher hopes for Dotson who has been a disappointment this summer. He was drafted as a prospect that has the tools to defend, displayed playmaking at the combine, known as knock down shooter in college. Together with a good NBA build. He has been working really hard as well. Something is blocking him from putting it all together.
He should at least be knocking down jumpers consistently and playing tough defense. But even the staples of his game have betrayed him.