Knicks · Gaines is Gone... (page 1)

WaltLongmire @ 7/13/2018 4:50 PM
Clarence Gaines leaving the Knicks.

I thought he was competent...others will disagree. I'm sure some will take him to task if he wanted Frank over Mitchell.

smackeddog @ 7/13/2018 5:22 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:Clarence Gaines leaving the Knicks.

I thought he was competent...others will disagree. I'm sure some will take him to task if he wanted Frank over Mitchell.

Alan hahn said the Knicks were divided between Donovan Mitchell and Frank, but Gaines wanted Frank and Phil went with his opinion (understandably)

GustavBahler @ 7/13/2018 5:34 PM
smackeddog wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Clarence Gaines leaving the Knicks.

I thought he was competent...others will disagree. I'm sure some will take him to task if he wanted Frank over Mitchell.

Alan hahn said the Knicks were divided between Donovan Mitchell and Frank, but Gaines wanted Frank and Phil went with his opinion (understandably)

I get the feeling that Frank was picked because Phil was mandating what system his coach had to run. Frank was the best fit for that system. Team player, smart,strong D, not a big freelancer. Thats what Phil wanted, thats what Phil got.

Willy made first rookie team, The talent was there, and he ran with KP in Europe. Considering he was picking players for a very specific system, Gaines did well. Supposed to have fought for KP at 4.

They could have let Gaines go before the draft. Would be curious to know what input Gaines had in this draft, if any. Maybe the Lakers might hire him, with his connection to Phil.

Ira @ 7/13/2018 5:52 PM
Gaines was a great judge of talent and will be missed.
newyorknewyork @ 7/13/2018 6:22 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Clarence Gaines leaving the Knicks.

I thought he was competent...others will disagree. I'm sure some will take him to task if he wanted Frank over Mitchell.

Alan hahn said the Knicks were divided between Donovan Mitchell and Frank, but Gaines wanted Frank and Phil went with his opinion (understandably)

I get the feeling that Frank was picked because Phil was mandating what system his coach had to run. Frank was the best fit for that system. Team player, smart,strong D, not a big freelancer. Thats what Phil wanted, thats what Phil got.

Willy made first rookie team, The talent was there, and he ran with KP in Europe. Considering he was picking players for a very specific system, Gaines did well. Supposed to have fought for KP at 4.

They could have let Gaines go before the draft. Would be curious to know what input Gaines had in this draft, if any. Maybe the Lakers might hire him, with his connection to Phil.

Mitchell offered the same exact things you just named though for the Triangle. Team player, Smart, Strong physical build, length, high character, best defensive guard in the ACC. Wasn't known as an offensive dynamo even after 2 yrs of college ball. Which is why Monk who offered way less defense and length, but was 18-19 & averaged 20pts per game. Had some 40pt outburst. Had him viewed as a higher rated prospect.

I think they wanted to gamble on hitting another unicorn type of pick. They probably underestimated Mitchell's potential to expand his offensive game. Weren't enamored with Smith and Monks physical profiles. Felt Franks 6'5 frame, 7ft wing span, and strong fundamental base at his age gave him that unicorn type potential. I don't think they drafted him with the game plan for him to be a role player.

GustavBahler @ 7/13/2018 6:29 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Clarence Gaines leaving the Knicks.

I thought he was competent...others will disagree. I'm sure some will take him to task if he wanted Frank over Mitchell.

Alan hahn said the Knicks were divided between Donovan Mitchell and Frank, but Gaines wanted Frank and Phil went with his opinion (understandably)

I get the feeling that Frank was picked because Phil was mandating what system his coach had to run. Frank was the best fit for that system. Team player, smart,strong D, not a big freelancer. Thats what Phil wanted, thats what Phil got.

Willy made first rookie team, The talent was there, and he ran with KP in Europe. Considering he was picking players for a very specific system, Gaines did well. Supposed to have fought for KP at 4.

They could have let Gaines go before the draft. Would be curious to know what input Gaines had in this draft, if any. Maybe the Lakers might hire him, with his connection to Phil.

Mitchell offered the same exact things you just named though for the Triangle. Team player, Smart, Strong physical build, length, high character, best defensive guard in the ACC. Wasn't known as an offensive dynamo even after 2 yrs of college ball. Which is why Monk who offered way less defense and length, but was 18-19 & averaged 20pts per game. Had some 40pt outburst. Had him viewed as a higher rated prospect.

I think they wanted to gamble on hitting another unicorn type of pick. They probably underestimated Mitchell's potential to expand his offensive game. Weren't enamored with Smith and Monks physical profiles. Felt Franks 6'5 frame, 7ft wing span, and strong fundamental base at his age gave him that unicorn type potential. I don't think they drafted him with the game plan for him to be a role player.

Have to disagree that Frank and Mitchell were in the exact same players as far as offense. Mitchell was much more willing to take chances. to be the man, IMO.

Look at the PGs Phil had on his championship rosters. Frank fit that mold more than Mitchell did, and thats what Phil wanted. Not the prototype PG thats in demand today.

Jmpasq @ 7/13/2018 7:12 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Clarence Gaines leaving the Knicks.

I thought he was competent...others will disagree. I'm sure some will take him to task if he wanted Frank over Mitchell.

Alan hahn said the Knicks were divided between Donovan Mitchell and Frank, but Gaines wanted Frank and Phil went with his opinion (understandably)

I get the feeling that Frank was picked because Phil was mandating what system his coach had to run. Frank was the best fit for that system. Team player, smart,strong D, not a big freelancer. Thats what Phil wanted, thats what Phil got.

Willy made first rookie team, The talent was there, and he ran with KP in Europe. Considering he was picking players for a very specific system, Gaines did well. Supposed to have fought for KP at 4.

They could have let Gaines go before the draft. Would be curious to know what input Gaines had in this draft, if any. Maybe the Lakers might hire him, with his connection to Phil.

Mitchell offered the same exact things you just named though for the Triangle. Team player, Smart, Strong physical build, length, high character, best defensive guard in the ACC. Wasn't known as an offensive dynamo even after 2 yrs of college ball. Which is why Monk who offered way less defense and length, but was 18-19 & averaged 20pts per game. Had some 40pt outburst. Had him viewed as a higher rated prospect.

I think they wanted to gamble on hitting another unicorn type of pick. They probably underestimated Mitchell's potential to expand his offensive game. Weren't enamored with Smith and Monks physical profiles. Felt Franks 6'5 frame, 7ft wing span, and strong fundamental base at his age gave him that unicorn type potential. I don't think they drafted him with the game plan for him to be a role player.

Have to disagree that Frank and Mitchell were in the exact same players as far as offense. Mitchell was much more willing to take chances. to be the man, IMO.

Look at the PGs Phil had on his championship rosters. Frank fit that mold more than Mitchell did, and thats what Phil wanted. Not the prototype PG thats in demand today.


and thats why Phil is gone, he had no grasp on how basketball is played today.
CrushAlot @ 7/13/2018 7:26 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Clarence Gaines leaving the Knicks.

I thought he was competent...others will disagree. I'm sure some will take him to task if he wanted Frank over Mitchell.

Alan hahn said the Knicks were divided between Donovan Mitchell and Frank, but Gaines wanted Frank and Phil went with his opinion (understandably)

I get the feeling that Frank was picked because Phil was mandating what system his coach had to run. Frank was the best fit for that system. Team player, smart,strong D, not a big freelancer. Thats what Phil wanted, thats what Phil got.

Willy made first rookie team, The talent was there, and he ran with KP in Europe. Considering he was picking players for a very specific system, Gaines did well. Supposed to have fought for KP at 4.

They could have let Gaines go before the draft. Would be curious to know what input Gaines had in this draft, if any. Maybe the Lakers might hire him, with his connection to Phil.

Agree. Gaines did a good job with what he was tasked to do. His role had decreased after Phil left to just a scout. Hope he does well with whatever is in his future.
GustavBahler @ 7/13/2018 7:43 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Clarence Gaines leaving the Knicks.

I thought he was competent...others will disagree. I'm sure some will take him to task if he wanted Frank over Mitchell.

Alan hahn said the Knicks were divided between Donovan Mitchell and Frank, but Gaines wanted Frank and Phil went with his opinion (understandably)

I get the feeling that Frank was picked because Phil was mandating what system his coach had to run. Frank was the best fit for that system. Team player, smart,strong D, not a big freelancer. Thats what Phil wanted, thats what Phil got.

Willy made first rookie team, The talent was there, and he ran with KP in Europe. Considering he was picking players for a very specific system, Gaines did well. Supposed to have fought for KP at 4.

They could have let Gaines go before the draft. Would be curious to know what input Gaines had in this draft, if any. Maybe the Lakers might hire him, with his connection to Phil.

Agree. Gaines did a good job with what he was tasked to do. His role had decreased after Phil left to just a scout. Hope he does well with whatever is in his future.

Might be a stretch considering how far Im removed from the situation. But Gaines kind of reminds me of the title character in "Roman J. Israel Esq." Very talented indivdual who can be a big help, if the conditions are right.

newyorknewyork @ 7/13/2018 8:18 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Clarence Gaines leaving the Knicks.

I thought he was competent...others will disagree. I'm sure some will take him to task if he wanted Frank over Mitchell.

Alan hahn said the Knicks were divided between Donovan Mitchell and Frank, but Gaines wanted Frank and Phil went with his opinion (understandably)

I get the feeling that Frank was picked because Phil was mandating what system his coach had to run. Frank was the best fit for that system. Team player, smart,strong D, not a big freelancer. Thats what Phil wanted, thats what Phil got.

Willy made first rookie team, The talent was there, and he ran with KP in Europe. Considering he was picking players for a very specific system, Gaines did well. Supposed to have fought for KP at 4.

They could have let Gaines go before the draft. Would be curious to know what input Gaines had in this draft, if any. Maybe the Lakers might hire him, with his connection to Phil.

Mitchell offered the same exact things you just named though for the Triangle. Team player, Smart, Strong physical build, length, high character, best defensive guard in the ACC. Wasn't known as an offensive dynamo even after 2 yrs of college ball. Which is why Monk who offered way less defense and length, but was 18-19 & averaged 20pts per game. Had some 40pt outburst. Had him viewed as a higher rated prospect.

I think they wanted to gamble on hitting another unicorn type of pick. They probably underestimated Mitchell's potential to expand his offensive game. Weren't enamored with Smith and Monks physical profiles. Felt Franks 6'5 frame, 7ft wing span, and strong fundamental base at his age gave him that unicorn type potential. I don't think they drafted him with the game plan for him to be a role player.

Have to disagree that Frank and Mitchell were in the exact same players as far as offense. Mitchell was much more willing to take chances. to be the man, IMO.

Look at the PGs Phil had on his championship rosters. Frank fit that mold more than Mitchell did, and thats what Phil wanted. Not the prototype PG thats in demand today.

Mitchell willing to take more chances doesn't negate his Triangle appeal. Which is more about size, defensive capabilities, ability to play on & off ball, make reads based on what the defensive is giving which matches the options in the Triangle.

I don't think the thought process was that since Mitchell had a slightly more offensive mind that it over road his potential contributions on defense, his character, his length, physical build, etc etc. What made Frank appeal more I'm guessing wasn't that he had a less offensive mentality. But that he was a 6'5 7ft 18 yr old with strong fundamentals, good IQ and work ethic. Which who knows what that could develop into and we still don't know.

Jordan, Pippen, & Kobe were Phil's real PGs. There is no history of Phil using or pushing his team to use premium assets/resources those type players(Fisher, Harper).

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