Knicks · 10 players who became good out of NOWHERE (page 1)
this video surely gives us hope, a couple of these players will surprise you a bit at how poor they started. i forgot the the suns had KJ, KIDD, and Nash at the same time
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!
It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".
Then when they compete with each other we call some of then bursts.... by comparison.
Many things need to come together for player to became a star - talent, character, health, coach, organization, family, luck...
Some are making this and some are not. It's life... it's a big lottery.
But if one is not buying the ticket he will never win.
Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".
lots of double standards out there.
Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".
Yes, and how many other players come into the league and do nothing, and continue to do nothing year after year. I don't know the numbers but it is way more than guys that develop into 2 time MVP's.
Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".
Thank you for pointing out that Nash was making the all star team before Phoenix. Didnt agree with their decision to go in another direction, at the time.
As for Frank, believe that his playing PG has been treated at times like it was Phil's dying wish. He wasnt a PG in France.
Posters talked about him standing up to LeBron. Standing up to LeBron would have been dunking on him. Needs a major dose of attitude.
Frank has the tools he needs to be a dangerous two-way player. Needs to develop the confidence, and the attitude to use those tools to beat the crap out of the other team.
Nash wasnt this timid, if my memory serves me. Not as much as it used to, lol.
GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".
Thank you for pointing out that Nash was making the all star team before Phoenix. Didnt agree with their decision to go in another direction, at the time.As for Frank, believe that his playing PG has been treated at times like it was Phil's dying wish. He wasnt a PG in France.
Posters talked about him standing up to LeBron. Standing up to LeBron would have been dunking on him. Needs a major dose of attitude.
Frank has the tools he needs to be a dangerous two-way player. Needs to develop the confidence, and the attitude to use those tools to beat the crap out of the other team.
Nash wasnt this timid, if my memory serves me. Not as much as it used to, lol.
Right you recall. Steve Nash rookie season with PHX?
Oh wait, you want to equate Nash to Frank? How about this.....8 pts a game and 2.2 assists!!!!!
Thats his line as a freshman at SANTA CLARA FUCKING STATE UNIVERSITY!!!!
Please, nobody said frank was Nash. The point is there are players that need time!
Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Dallas let him walk because they did two specific things.
A) Sign Michael Finley to a massive extension. Which in hindsight, was a mistake but an understandable one. He was a very successful wing for a good while.
B) Sign Erick Dampier to a large free agent contract ( He had one good year with the GSW, in a contract year, got paid, dogged it. In his next contract year, had one more good year, then dogged it in Dallas. Truly one of the biggest reasons the NBAPA lost the post The Decision labor war. As the story goes, the owners could not stop bringing up Dampier and his contract situations to the NBAPA )
Mark Cuban came out later and said he was wrong and these were bad long term decisions but explained why he did it. The cost of rim protection was different back then. From a standpoint of trying to win a ring, it was very understandable ( taking the wing and pivot over the point guard)
Post that situation, Cuban just kept going into that tax zone and did so until the expanded repeater tax was created.
Mark Cuban is a point blank asshole. I've met him a couple of times and it's no doubt, he's a gigantic asshole. However he loves his team and he loves the game, that is certain and he wants to win and he will spend to win. He is one of the best owners in sports. But the same elements that make him great at being an owner also makes him horrible with dealing with his fellow owners.
He was never dishonest about the issue that letting Nash leave was a franchise changing mistake.
TripleThreat wrote:Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Dallas let him walk because they did two specific things.A) Sign Michael Finley to a massive extension. Which in hindsight, was a mistake but an understandable one. He was a very successful wing for a good while.
B) Sign Erick Dampier to a large free agent contract ( He had one good year with the GSW, in a contract year, got paid, dogged it. In his next contract year, had one more good year, then dogged it in Dallas. Truly one of the biggest reasons the NBAPA lost the post The Decision labor war. As the story goes, the owners could not stop bringing up Dampier and his contract situations to the NBAPA )
Mark Cuban came out later and said he was wrong and these were bad long term decisions but explained why he did it. The cost of rim protection was different back then. From a standpoint of trying to win a ring, it was very understandable ( taking the wing and pivot over the point guard)
Post that situation, Cuban just kept going into that tax zone and did so until the expanded repeater tax was created.
Mark Cuban is a point blank asshole. I've met him a couple of times and it's no doubt, he's a gigantic asshole. However he loves his team and he loves the game, that is certain and he wants to win and he will spend to win. He is one of the best owners in sports. But the same elements that make him great at being an owner also makes him horrible with dealing with his fellow owners.
He was never dishonest about the issue that letting Nash leave was a franchise changing mistake.
Nash’s back projected to be problematic for the money PHX was offering and Cuban (yes, he was honest) lamented what a tough decision he made as he liked Nash.
GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".
Thank you for pointing out that Nash was making the all star team before Phoenix. Didnt agree with their decision to go in another direction, at the time.As for Frank, believe that his playing PG has been treated at times like it was Phil's dying wish. He wasnt a PG in France.
Posters talked about him standing up to LeBron. Standing up to LeBron would have been dunking on him. Needs a major dose of attitude.
Frank has the tools he needs to be a dangerous two-way player. Needs to develop the confidence, and the attitude to use those tools to beat the crap out of the other team.
Nash wasnt this timid, if my memory serves me. Not as much as it used to, lol.
I don't expect frank to turn into Kawhi, he will be a decent player, but he hasn't shown anything that suggest he will be demanding the ball and looking to score on 4 or 5 straight possessions.
Mudiay and Mario, have shown their ability to take their game to the next level, and i think FIZ system is Ideal to get them there consistently.
Usually when a lottery pick starts off with 2 sub par seasons, he's probably going to get traded before the 3rd
knicks1248 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".
Thank you for pointing out that Nash was making the all star team before Phoenix. Didnt agree with their decision to go in another direction, at the time.As for Frank, believe that his playing PG has been treated at times like it was Phil's dying wish. He wasnt a PG in France.
Posters talked about him standing up to LeBron. Standing up to LeBron would have been dunking on him. Needs a major dose of attitude.
Frank has the tools he needs to be a dangerous two-way player. Needs to develop the confidence, and the attitude to use those tools to beat the crap out of the other team.
Nash wasnt this timid, if my memory serves me. Not as much as it used to, lol.
I don't expect frank to turn into Kawhi, he will be a decent player, but he hasn't shown anything that suggest he will be demanding the ball and looking to score on 4 or 5 straight possessions.
Mudiay and Mario, have shown their ability to take their game to the next level, and i think FIZ system is Ideal to get them there consistently.
Usually when a lottery pick starts off with 2 sub par seasons, he's probably going to get traded before the 3rd
Your relentless!!!
Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".
Thank you for pointing out that Nash was making the all star team before Phoenix. Didnt agree with their decision to go in another direction, at the time.As for Frank, believe that his playing PG has been treated at times like it was Phil's dying wish. He wasnt a PG in France.
Posters talked about him standing up to LeBron. Standing up to LeBron would have been dunking on him. Needs a major dose of attitude.
Frank has the tools he needs to be a dangerous two-way player. Needs to develop the confidence, and the attitude to use those tools to beat the crap out of the other team.
Nash wasnt this timid, if my memory serves me. Not as much as it used to, lol.
I don't expect
frankmuddiay to turn into Kawhi, he will be a decent player, but he hasn't shown anything that suggest he will be demanding the ball and looking to score on 4 or 5 straight possessions.
Mudiayfrank and Mario, have shown their ability to take their game to the next level, and i think FIZ system is Ideal to get them there consistently.Usually when a lottery pick starts off with 2 sub par seasons, he's probably going to get traded before the 3rd
Your relentless!!!
that's better for you, god forbid anyone who doesn't have glowing remarks about frank their considered the worse...
Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".
Thank you for pointing out that Nash was making the all star team before Phoenix. Didnt agree with their decision to go in another direction, at the time.As for Frank, believe that his playing PG has been treated at times like it was Phil's dying wish. He wasnt a PG in France.
Posters talked about him standing up to LeBron. Standing up to LeBron would have been dunking on him. Needs a major dose of attitude.
Frank has the tools he needs to be a dangerous two-way player. Needs to develop the confidence, and the attitude to use those tools to beat the crap out of the other team.
Nash wasnt this timid, if my memory serves me. Not as much as it used to, lol.
Right you recall. Steve Nash rookie season with PHX?
Oh wait, you want to equate Nash to Frank? How about this.....8 pts a game and 2.2 assists!!!!!
Thats his line as a freshman at SANTA CLARA FUCKING STATE UNIVERSITY!!!!
Please, nobody said frank was Nash. The point is there are players that need time!
Was Nash averaging over 20 minutes a game as a rookie? Was he the 8th pick, with some pro experience?. More was expected.
The only comparison to Nash I was making was their playing style. Nothing else. Just agreeing with you that Nash could ball before he got to Phoenix, which gets lost in the conversation sometimes.
GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".
Thank you for pointing out that Nash was making the all star team before Phoenix. Didnt agree with their decision to go in another direction, at the time.As for Frank, believe that his playing PG has been treated at times like it was Phil's dying wish. He wasnt a PG in France.
Posters talked about him standing up to LeBron. Standing up to LeBron would have been dunking on him. Needs a major dose of attitude.
Frank has the tools he needs to be a dangerous two-way player. Needs to develop the confidence, and the attitude to use those tools to beat the crap out of the other team.
Nash wasnt this timid, if my memory serves me. Not as much as it used to, lol.
Right you recall. Steve Nash rookie season with PHX?
Oh wait, you want to equate Nash to Frank? How about this.....8 pts a game and 2.2 assists!!!!!
Thats his line as a freshman at SANTA CLARA FUCKING STATE UNIVERSITY!!!!
Please, nobody said frank was Nash. The point is there are players that need time!Was Nash averaging over 20 minutes a game as a rookie? Was he the 8th pick, with some pro experience?. More was expected.
The only comparison to Nash I was making was their playing style. Nothing else. Just agreeing with you that Nash could ball before he got to Phoenix, which gets lost in the conversation sometimes.
Expectations are what you put on a player.
Drafting a player at a certain position, especially that high, are usually based off of potential. Potential today, tomorrow, next year or a couple years down the road.
Expectation is what you want to make from it. A 18 year old drafted not named Lebron did not disappoint some.
Media wanted you to hate, you hate. You want to expect more, thats your choice.
Kobe did not break out until 21 years old.
knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".
Thank you for pointing out that Nash was making the all star team before Phoenix. Didnt agree with their decision to go in another direction, at the time.As for Frank, believe that his playing PG has been treated at times like it was Phil's dying wish. He wasnt a PG in France.
Posters talked about him standing up to LeBron. Standing up to LeBron would have been dunking on him. Needs a major dose of attitude.
Frank has the tools he needs to be a dangerous two-way player. Needs to develop the confidence, and the attitude to use those tools to beat the crap out of the other team.
Nash wasnt this timid, if my memory serves me. Not as much as it used to, lol.
I don't expect
frankmuddiay to turn into Kawhi, he will be a decent player, but he hasn't shown anything that suggest he will be demanding the ball and looking to score on 4 or 5 straight possessions.
Mudiayfrank and Mario, have shown their ability to take their game to the next level, and i think FIZ system is Ideal to get them there consistently.Usually when a lottery pick starts off with 2 sub par seasons, he's probably going to get traded before the 3rd
Your relentless!!!
that's better for you, god forbid anyone who doesn't have glowing remarks about frank their considered the worse...
Your entitle to your redundancy as I am mine. I don't consider you the worst. Just narrow.
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".
Thank you for pointing out that Nash was making the all star team before Phoenix. Didnt agree with their decision to go in another direction, at the time.As for Frank, believe that his playing PG has been treated at times like it was Phil's dying wish. He wasnt a PG in France.
Posters talked about him standing up to LeBron. Standing up to LeBron would have been dunking on him. Needs a major dose of attitude.
Frank has the tools he needs to be a dangerous two-way player. Needs to develop the confidence, and the attitude to use those tools to beat the crap out of the other team.
Nash wasnt this timid, if my memory serves me. Not as much as it used to, lol.
Right you recall. Steve Nash rookie season with PHX?
Oh wait, you want to equate Nash to Frank? How about this.....8 pts a game and 2.2 assists!!!!!
Thats his line as a freshman at SANTA CLARA FUCKING STATE UNIVERSITY!!!!
Please, nobody said frank was Nash. The point is there are players that need time!Was Nash averaging over 20 minutes a game as a rookie? Was he the 8th pick, with some pro experience?. More was expected.
The only comparison to Nash I was making was their playing style. Nothing else. Just agreeing with you that Nash could ball before he got to Phoenix, which gets lost in the conversation sometimes.
Expectations are what you put on a player.
Drafting a player at a certain position, especially that high, are usually based off of potential. Potential today, tomorrow, next year or a couple years down the road.
Understood. At the same time, if there was a running theme in Frank's rookie season, it was the Knicks coaches, mgmt (among others), expecting Frank to be further along on offense.
They seemed surprised that he was so reluctant to shoot, in almost any situation. It wasnt just conditioning. Knew he was raw, but the minutes did little to increase his confidence. Hoping we see a more aggressive player next season.
Dont believe the Knicks will wait beyond this upcoming season, if its more or less a repeat of last season, on offense. Even with elite D.
Nalod wrote:Nash was 22 as a rookie in PHX for two years and was traded to Dallas.
Expectation is what you want to make from it. A 18 year old drafted not named Lebron did not disappoint some.
Media wanted you to hate, you hate. You want to expect more, thats your choice.
Kobe did not break out until 21 years old.
Knew from 30 seconds of watching Kobe in high school that he would be a star, and the Hornets were crazy.
Its not about Frank's skills, his smarts, its about his willingness to take the fight to the other team.
Kobe bricked or airballed how many 3 pointers his first playoff series? Frank would have been much more risk averse.
As for the bold....shmaltz! 
Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".
I actually gave him credit for not naming Frank, makes me believe that he believes he wouldn't fit the category of getting good out of nowhere.
Frank at 18 yrs old was the best PNR defending PG in the NBA and was apart of 86% of the Knicks net positive lineups. Probably even more if I go past the 32 lineup count but the mins allocated would devalue it.
Lets see if he can build on these positives he had his rookie yr and get his impact to grow even more.
newyorknewyork wrote:Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".I actually gave him credit for not naming Frank, makes me believe that he believes he wouldn't fit the category of getting good out of nowhere.
Frank at 18 yrs old was the best PNR defending PG in the NBA and was apart of 86% of the Knicks net positive lineups. Probably even more if I go past the 32 lineup count but the mins allocated would devalue it.
Lets see if he can build on these positives he had his rookie yr and get his impact to grow even more.
All those players in that video had a few games in their rookie campaign that showed their ability to really be good, just like Knox has.
It's ridiculous to keep pointing out franks PnR defense when as a team we defended horrible.
Frank Pnr defense is good because of his length and height, it allows him to block the path to the basket, or switch on defense.
Quite Frankly, a player is as good as the system you put him in. If frank was in this yrs draft do you think for one minute that we would take him before young or sexton (if all 3 were available).
We drafted knox because of fiz, his system and how he wants to play, the same reason phil drafted frank.
Now you want frank to reinvent his game to fit fiz system..good luck with that, that rarely every works, and jeremy lin is a prime example. In MDA system he's an all star, everybody else system he's avg or below.
knicks1248 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".I actually gave him credit for not naming Frank, makes me believe that he believes he wouldn't fit the category of getting good out of nowhere.
Frank at 18 yrs old was the best PNR defending PG in the NBA and was apart of 86% of the Knicks net positive lineups. Probably even more if I go past the 32 lineup count but the mins allocated would devalue it.
Lets see if he can build on these positives he had his rookie yr and get his impact to grow even more.
All those players in that video had a few games in their rookie campaign that showed their ability to really be good, just like Knox has.
It's ridiculous to keep pointing out franks PnR defense when as a team we defended horrible.
Frank Pnr defense is good because of his length and height, it allows him to block the path to the basket, or switch on defense.Quite Frankly, a player is as good as the system you put him in. If frank was in this yrs draft do you think for one minute that we would take him before young or sexton (if all 3 were available).
We drafted knox because of fiz, his system and how he wants to play, the same reason phil drafted frank.
Now you want frank to reinvent his game to fit fiz system..good luck with that, that rarely every works, and jeremy lin is a prime example. In MDA system he's an all star, everybody else system he's avg or below.
Every player in that video was pretty much 20 yrs old and over when they entered the NBA and took multiple seasons after that to come into their own. Frank is still 19 as we speak until July 28th. Don't you think its silly to come to conclusions on what he is or will be? You also completely ignored him being apart of 86% of the Knicks net positive lineups at 19 years old. He is doing something right. For someone who claims to be about winning...
Frank's games vs Nets, Pacers, Lakers to name a few also showed flashes of how Frank could be a really good impact player on both ends if it were to every all come together for him. And again this is at 19 yrs old.
Fizz wanted Knox because he saw a package of size, length, athleticism, toughness by beating up Bridges, to go with improved handle. Visualizing the *versatility* he can provide him. You try to make is seem like Knox is a completely different prospect than Frank, but the principals are pretty similar within the big picture. Versatility and position less. What Fizz has been preaching for a while now, but since its not convenient you look to spin it. It was said that Young wasn't a Fizz type of guard at the draft. Now why would that be? Again something you will ignore.
As I spoke about in another thread. Donovan Mitchell provided the same things Phil was looking for within the triangle. Not only that, but he would have been a safer bet even if he didn't turn into the star he became due being more NBA ready at 21. So if Phil wanted a safe triangle guard that will just quietly run his system then Mitchell would have been the safer choice. The logical reasoning to take Frank within the context of the triangle is due to unknown potential. You would make a better case if Phil didn't value the PG position at all and signed a cheap veteran who could run the triangle or spent on 2nd round pick on a player with triangle prospects. But that's only if your willing to use logic an not push a narrative.
Your viewpoint is pretty much basic. You want to be entertained first and hope that all the other stuff falls in line after the fact. Frank isn't entertaining enough for you based on what he is at the moment. I get it, just think its to early to put him in any box yet.