Knicks · Knicks/Wolves have had preliminary trade talks regarding Butler/Maybe Bogus (page 3)

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:Wise up Knicks. Unless you are ONLY trading Timmy and Lee for Butler than I wouldn’t do it. I’ll include this years first rou der too. Otherwise, he’s a free agent. I would far rather deal our expirings for Melo and cut him right away and wait to get Butler and Irving next Summer. We would have a pretty complete team afterwards.

Why? I know they would ask but why would you include that 1st round pick for this year? Knicks not gonna be good. Maybe top 15 protected? Something.

Butler isnt young and has some mileage but he's a very very good player. If I am Sota I dont think I take less than Hardaway/Dotson/2019 first rounder top 3 protected and unprotected following year if that happens.

Likely Butler has another 4-5 years playing at a very high level.

Butler also avg. about 5 assists. He's a fantastic ball mover. The question is if you give that up what does a Knick team look like moving forward?
PG Frank/Burke
SG Butler/Lee/Baker
SF Knox/Lance
PF KP/Mario/Hicks
C Kanter/Robinson/Kornet

The next question is can the Knicks clean enough off the books to look like this the following year:
PG Irving
SG Frank
SF Butler
PF Knox
C KP
bench: Robinson, rest is gonna be thin but Butler (30) and Irving (27) would be the old guys on a team looking to challenge in the East. Maybe...?

Gut feeling is avoid all this and continue to stockpile long athletic skilled players. Develop our own talent. Bring in guys like Burke, Mudiay and Mario for this staff to look at and see if they can salvage. Lock up good draft prospects like Dotson and Mitchell to long and very cheap contracts and just stay on the path they are on. I personally like the latter... I like this young group and want to see how this staff looking with them before trying to bring in a couple max guys from other teams.

This. I like Butler but he has played for Thibs for almost his entire career and will be turning thirty. Deng, Noah, Rose etc. were not much after a long run with Thibs. I would love if the Knicks used Kanter and some of their other expiring deals to take back a player or two from teams chasing cap space if they can get a pick or two. The Knicks should have a really good pick this year. Mario might blossom and his age fits with the core. Locking in on free agency or chasing a star is not my preferred method of building this team at this point.

agreed. some players turn "old" fast. plus what's left on his contract? Is this a one year rental? not hot to trot on this

LegendD wrote:Butler only for THJ and Lee or Kanter.
Untouchable payers: KP, Knox, Frank, Robinson

And first round draft picks. Enough effing starfukking

meloshouldgo wrote:

LegendD wrote:Butler only for THJ and Lee or Kanter.
Untouchable payers: KP, Knox, Frank, Robinson

And first round draft picks. Enough effing starfukking

meloshouldgo wrote:

LegendD wrote:Butler only for THJ and Lee or Kanter.
Untouchable payers: KP, Knox, Frank, Robinson

And first round draft picks. Enough effing starfukking

The key on first round picks is protections. That and not actually trading for true superstars. But with protections you at least give yourself an out. We never used to do that and that killed us as much as anything.

"you want to trade us Butler?"

"you want to trade us KP?"

"no, you?"

"no"

"let me know next time you're in NY, maybe we can grab some sushi"

SupremeCommander wrote:I imagine the preliminary trade talks went something like:

"you want to trade us Butler?"

"you want to trade us KP?"

"no, you?"

"no"

"let me know next time you're in NY, maybe we can grab some sushi"

or maybe an agent leak some bogus info

I like Butler. Would I give up a contract like Lee and throw in a #2 for a 1 year rental...perhaps, but even that makes little sense because KP won't be playing much next year...maybe not playing at all, and we are not a playoff ready team. All Butler would do is push us back in the lottery, and then he's gone. Makes little sense to me.

HofstraBBall wrote:Can we all just agree there is no way in hell that Butler will want to sign here long term! So why trade ANY assets besides salary dumps in order to get him?

there's already been several rumors that butler WANTS to play here. im not sure about fizdale the coach yet (he hasn't coached a game for us yet) but it sure sounds like fizdale the person, is a guy that ALOT of players want to play for. we shall see.

nyk4ever wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Can we all just agree there is no way in hell that Butler will want to sign here long term! So why trade ANY assets besides salary dumps in order to get him?

there's already been several rumors that butler WANTS to play here. im not sure about fizdale the coach yet (he hasn't coached a game for us yet) but it sure sounds like fizdale the person, is a guy that ALOT of players want to play for. we shall see.

When LeBron and Wade are singing your praises, it has an effect. Great recruiting tool. I dont know what the predictions are by the media. Some are pretty good at calling it.

Even if its just a few more wins, Fizdale getting more out of his players, and the team than expected, would be a big deal IMO. Been a long time since the Knicks could claim that.

The 54 win season, (with many on that team retiring) was just a mirage. This situation would be a lot different.

Knixkik wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

LegendD wrote:Butler only for THJ and Lee or Kanter.
Untouchable payers: KP, Knox, Frank, Robinson

And first round draft picks. Enough effing starfukking

The key on first round picks is protections. That and not actually trading for true superstars. But with protections you at least give yourself an out. We never used to do that and that killed us as much as anything.

Most protections run out after a period of time, don't they? Like what happens if the pick falls in projected range the first couple of years? Then it will convey on year three without any protection. Not interested.

HofstraBBall wrote:Can we all just agree there is no way in hell that Butler will want to sign here long term! So why trade ANY assets besides salary dumps in order to get him?

When you say long term, what exactly is long term in the NBA these days 2, 3 yrs? I mean lets be honest, they only guys that should be signing 4 yr deals are all stars and franchise players.

Assets are only as good as what you get for them.

Jmpasq wrote:I can call myself an NBA insider and make stuff up if I feel like it. The Daily News does it. I remember an article after Ewing left that said we had a 75% chance at signing Chris Webber. From a source with knowledge of the Knicks thinking is my favorite. If I watched the Knicks for 30 years does that give me a knowledge of their thinking.

Remember all the Chris Webber trade threads/stories on the old ESPN Knicks board, even after he started getting hurt.

Ira wrote:You don't even think of trading significant future players or assets for a 1 year rental. We're not close to competing for a championship, so this move makes no sense for us.

Exactly! I don't want Butler at all on this team, we are in development mode and he will take touches. And not trading Frank, he just needs time and development and Frank can be special. We only want vets who are high character guys who can mentor and don't need playing time. Let our young core grow.

GustavBahler wrote:When LeBron and Wade are singing your praises, it has an effect. Great recruiting tool.

Ultimately, it means nothing. Players want max money, max years and best opportunity to win. Some players will trade less money and less years for a better pathway to starting or playing time. Some players just want to stay in the league.

What players and coaches and front office people say in the press means pretty much nothing.

If someone sticks a mic in your face and says , "Do you think X is a great coach?" What are you going to say?

If you say No, you will get run over in the press. Which is why they asked the question in the first place.

If you hesitate, you will get run over in the press. They'll just make up a headline.

If you say Yes, they'll write the story they PLANNED OUT ANYWAY. Which is why they asked it in the first place.

Most press questions are just bait. See if they can catch you on a bad day or make a mistake and then you say something you didn't mean or got out of context and they run with the story.

The only "effect" it has on is some readers/viewers. There is not enough real legit NBA news to cover a 24/7/365 cycle. Thus the fake feuds, the fabricated drama, the softball type interview questions, the draftees being hyped.

Do you think Kawhi Leonard will consider reupping with Toronto because some people say they love the place? No, it's max money, max years, best chance to win/contend.

Most pro athletes are just very insecure "big" children, most of whom have issues with narcissism and entitlement. Most in this generation also have been heavily trained in how to give the press nothing and something ( Nothing in terms of content that will damage them, something in terms of promoting the player and his "brand" and giving the beat writers something to write so they leave you alone otherwise or sit on a story that could hurt you later)

TripleThreat wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:When LeBron and Wade are singing your praises, it has an effect. Great recruiting tool.

Ultimately, it means nothing. Players want max money, max years and best opportunity to win. Some players will trade less money and less years for a better pathway to starting or playing time. Some players just want to stay in the league.

What players and coaches and front office people say in the press means pretty much nothing.

If someone sticks a mic in your face and says , "Do you think X is a great coach?" What are you going to say?

If you say No, you will get run over in the press. Which is why they asked the question in the first place.

If you hesitate, you will get run over in the press. They'll just make up a headline.

If you say Yes, they'll write the story they PLANNED OUT ANYWAY. Which is why they asked it in the first place.

Most press questions are just bait. See if they can catch you on a bad day or make a mistake and then you say something you didn't mean or got out of context and they run with the story.

The only "effect" it has on is some readers/viewers. There is not enough real legit NBA news to cover a 24/7/365 cycle. Thus the fake feuds, the fabricated drama, the softball type interview questions, the draftees being hyped.

Do you think Kawhi Leonard will consider reupping with Toronto because some people say they love the place? No, it's max money, max years, best chance to win/contend.

Most pro athletes are just very insecure "big" children, most of whom have issues with narcissism and entitlement. Most in this generation also have been heavily trained in how to give the press nothing and something ( Nothing in terms of content that will damage them, something in terms of promoting the player and his "brand" and giving the beat writers something to write so they leave you alone otherwise or sit on a story that could hurt you later)

You have a bad habit of editing my post down to one sentence, and taking it out of context. If I was giving that sentence as much weight as you are claiming, I wouldnt have spent more time discussing how the Knicks might get the attention of free agents.

As for Fizdale, it isnt about what players say to the media, its about what players say to other players about their coaches when deciding where to go.

Dont need to be an insider to know that this happens all the time. Its not just about money for some players, its about fit because their skills (and their net worth) gives them options.

GustavBahler wrote:You have a bad habit of editing my post down to one sentence

As for Fizdale, it isnt about what players say to the media, its about what players say to other players about their coaches when deciding where to go.

Two sentences. Because I'm very diplomatic at heart.

- Max money ( total overall deal/highest AAV)
- Max length of contract ( including possibility of player option, NTC, trade kicker, etc)
- Pathway to winning/contention/playoffs versus not
- Pathway to starting versus not
- Pathway to playing time ( most versus little to none)
- Pathway to ring chase
- Pathway just to stay in the league ( accrue service time to either get a pension or increase it's value)
- Possible endorsements
- Lifestyle of city in question
- Impact on family/wife/kids

- 75 other factors

Big gap here

Much bigger gap here

It's the Grand Canyon

It's the size of blkexecs base narcissism aka "It's all about ME, all the time, let's spend some time talking more about ME! ME! ME! Anyone got a mirror I can stare into?"

And finally,

- What players say to other players about their coaches

No one was going to offer Noah the contract that Phil Jackson offered him. No one.

Luol Deng (whispers) - "Hey dude, Jax, man, he doesn't floss. Not at all. That's some grim ass shit, yo"

Noah ( while gently brushing Deng along the cheek) - "I draw the line at dental hygeine! I'm going to turn down this massive contract that no one else in their right mind would give me! Deuces, motherfuckers!"