knicks1248 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:11 of the top 12 defensive teams in the NBA made the playoffs last season and 13 of the top 15.
8 of the top 12 offensive teams in the NBA made the playoffs last season and 10 of the top 15.
7 of the top offensive teams were also top 15 defensively
6 of the top defensive teams were also top 15 offensively
The defensive teams needed less overall talent I.E Spurs, Jazz, Heat, Pacers obtain the same or more success.Houston Rockets targeted players like Tucker, Mbah Moute, Nene, to go with Ariza & Capella to surround Harden and the newly acquired Paul who also is a quality defender. Raising them from 18th defensively and a 2nd round exit in a weaker West to 6th defensively and WCF.
like i just said defense will only get you so far, all of those teams were knocked out and the team with the most fire power won the title.... think about STARKS 2-14 shooting in game 7, and he miss wide open shots, and we were like one of the top defensive teams in the league back then
You just said teams that struggle offensively won't win many games. Those were 4 of the lowest scoring teams in the NBA who all made the playoffs. The Lakers & Hornets averaged 108 pts per game which was good for top 11 in points per game yet won 35-36 games. Nets averaged 106pts per game and had 28 wins. Heat averaged 103.
On paper Wolves had more offensive fire power than Rockets. Butler, Towns, Wiggins, Teague, Crawford (even added Derek Rose off the bench)are a higher combination of offensive talent group then Harden, Paul & Gordan. Rockets slowed down Wolves to 101pts per game in the playoffs which was 8 points lower than their season average. Wolves with all their offensive talent couldn't stop the Rockets who averaged 116pts which was 3 points higher than what they averaged on the season.
The top 4 teams that made the Conference finals. Warriors, Rockets, Celtics were are top 10 defensive teams. Only the Cavs with the best player of this generation held a poor defensive squad. In the Semis, 6 of the 8 teams left were top defensive rated teams. Tor, Bos, Philly, Houston, Utah, Warriors
1248 has to skew his “points” because he backed into the Frank hate corner.
Phil is gone dude. Not in the room.
The better teams play better defense. They win more games. It’s there in front of you.
Of course you need a good offense too.
StarksEwing1 wrote:Nalod wrote:1248 has to skew his “points” because he backed into the Frank hate corner.
Phil is gone dude. Not in the room.
The better teams play better defense. They win more games. It’s there in front of you.
Of course you need a good offense too.
Exactly
Why would i hate frank?
I think that may be the dumbest sht you ever said...smh
newyorknewyork wrote:knicks1248 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:11 of the top 12 defensive teams in the NBA made the playoffs last season and 13 of the top 15.
8 of the top 12 offensive teams in the NBA made the playoffs last season and 10 of the top 15.
7 of the top offensive teams were also top 15 defensively
6 of the top defensive teams were also top 15 offensively
The defensive teams needed less overall talent I.E Spurs, Jazz, Heat, Pacers obtain the same or more success.Houston Rockets targeted players like Tucker, Mbah Moute, Nene, to go with Ariza & Capella to surround Harden and the newly acquired Paul who also is a quality defender. Raising them from 18th defensively and a 2nd round exit in a weaker West to 6th defensively and WCF.
like i just said defense will only get you so far, all of those teams were knocked out and the team with the most fire power won the title.... think about STARKS 2-14 shooting in game 7, and he miss wide open shots, and we were like one of the top defensive teams in the league back then
You just said teams that struggle offensively won't win many games. Those were 4 of the lowest scoring teams in the NBA who all made the playoffs. The Lakers & Hornets averaged 108 pts per game which was good for top 11 in points per game yet won 35-36 games. Nets averaged 106pts per game and had 28 wins. Heat averaged 103.
On paper Wolves had more offensive fire power than Rockets. Butler, Towns, Wiggins, Teague, Crawford (even added Derek Rose off the bench)are a higher combination of offensive talent group then Harden, Paul & Gordan. Rockets slowed down Wolves to 101pts per game in the playoffs which was 8 points lower than their season average. Wolves with all their offensive talent couldn't stop the Rockets who averaged 116pts which was 3 points higher than what they averaged on the season.
The top 4 teams that made the Conference finals. Warriors, Rockets, Celtics were are top 10 defensive teams. Only the Cavs with the best player of this generation held a poor defensive squad. In the Semis, 6 of the 8 teams left were top defensive rated teams. Tor, Bos, Philly, Houston, Utah, Warriors
its always funny when folks present facts to knicks1248. Dude... he doesnt speak fact
What is obvious to most is a cosmic mystery to him
knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Nalod wrote:1248 has to skew his “points” because he backed into the Frank hate corner.
Phil is gone dude. Not in the room.
The better teams play better defense. They win more games. It’s there in front of you.
Of course you need a good offense too.
Exactly
Why would i hate frank?
I think that may be the dumbest sht you ever said...smh
Then we have us here a "mexican standoff" in the gutter!
Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Nalod wrote:1248 has to skew his “points” because he backed into the Frank hate corner.
Phil is gone dude. Not in the room.
The better teams play better defense. They win more games. It’s there in front of you.
Of course you need a good offense too.
Exactly
Why would i hate frank?
I think that may be the dumbest sht you ever said...smh
Then we have us here a "mexican standoff" in the gutter!
you and fishmike are so funny, like you guys will spin anything i say..even when i agree with you.
Like you both know frank has a long way to go, there's no disputing that, that doesn't mean i don't like him, I'm not rooting for him, or i think he's a finish product, but Until I see some growth in his game, as for now, he is who he is.
knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Nalod wrote:1248 has to skew his “points” because he backed into the Frank hate corner.
Phil is gone dude. Not in the room.
The better teams play better defense. They win more games. It’s there in front of you.
Of course you need a good offense too.
Exactly
Why would i hate frank?
I think that may be the dumbest sht you ever said...smh
Then we have us here a "mexican standoff" in the gutter!
you and fishmike are so funny, like you guys will spin anything i say..even when i agree with you.
Like you both know frank has a long way to go, there's no disputing that, that doesn't mean i don't like him, I'm not rooting for him, or i think he's a finish product, but Until I see some growth in his game, as for now, he is who he is.
"Until I see some growth", well why not just enjoy the process instead of thinking he is who he is. He just turned 20 last week.
If your not rooting, then your hating. If your not rooting for a 20 year old who is still growing, has established some bonafide NBA skills and you are willing at every turn to bend and twist bits and pieces of articles to some how position yourself as some authority then Im truly at a loss for polite words.
Lets agree to disagree: You want empirical evidence before spending any more emotional capital and guys like me are optimistic fanboy rooting for the guy to keep getting better. You want Baron Davis, I want Clyde.
Clyde was 4 years older than Franks rookie season and had a rough rookie year. Now, Nalod is not saying Frank is going to be clyde. But I'd have to say if Clyde instead of playing his senior year in High school played in a very respectible french league that was a key component to making the finals I'd guess he would have distributed the ball a bit as per custom. If Clyde played JR Varsity (No first year player in college played Varsity)played instead in the NBA im not saying that's a bad thing, but JR Varsity at Southern Illinois in 1964 vs. avg 21 minutes in the NBA is a way different experience.
We can tell this tale about many players over and over. Some became NBA all stars and some never did.
So when I say Im won't even label him as you do for 4 more years this is my thought process. And since knicks culture for the moment is to look at younger players who might need more seasoning Im embracing this not as a bonafide path to contention, but a sharp departure from the Starphuch culture of the past.
Gone is Dolan, gone is brand name coaches not aligned with the current roster, gone is starphuch GM/presidents (Isiah and PHil), and enter an era of development.
You want results to validate the concept? So would ever sports fan on the planet for their team. Get in line, your not different.
But some of us want to talk about the concept and what it means going forward. We are not as emotionally frail. We can stomach disappointment. So in your words your not rooting for frank. Thank you for the clarity.
Frank getting his run in....
It's not Dyckman...but it is something..
Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Nalod wrote:1248 has to skew his “points” because he backed into the Frank hate corner.
Phil is gone dude. Not in the room.
The better teams play better defense. They win more games. It’s there in front of you.
Of course you need a good offense too.
Exactly
Why would i hate frank?
I think that may be the dumbest sht you ever said...smh
Then we have us here a "mexican standoff" in the gutter!
you and fishmike are so funny, like you guys will spin anything i say..even when i agree with you.
Like you both know frank has a long way to go, there's no disputing that, that doesn't mean i don't like him, I'm not rooting for him, or i think he's a finish product, but Until I see some growth in his game, as for now, he is who he is.
"Until I see some growth", well why not just enjoy the process instead of thinking he is who he is. He just turned 20 last week.
If your not rooting, then your hating. If your not rooting for a 20 year old who is still growing, has established some bonafide NBA skills and you are willing at every turn to bend and twist bits and pieces of articles to some how position yourself as some authority then Im truly at a loss for polite words.
Lets agree to disagree: You want empirical evidence before spending any more emotional capital and guys like me are optimistic fanboy rooting for the guy to keep getting better. You want Baron Davis, I want Clyde.
Clyde was 4 years older than Franks rookie season and had a rough rookie year. Now, Nalod is not saying Frank is going to be clyde. But I'd have to say if Clyde instead of playing his senior year in High school played in a very respectible french league that was a key component to making the finals I'd guess he would have distributed the ball a bit as per custom. If Clyde played JR Varsity (No first year player in college played Varsity)played instead in the NBA im not saying that's a bad thing, but JR Varsity at Southern Illinois in 1964 vs. avg 21 minutes in the NBA is a way different experience.
We can tell this tale about many players over and over. Some became NBA all stars and some never did.
So when I say Im won't even label him as you do for 4 more years this is my thought process. And since knicks culture for the moment is to look at younger players who might need more seasoning Im embracing this not as a bonafide path to contention, but a sharp departure from the Starphuch culture of the past.
Gone is Dolan, gone is brand name coaches not aligned with the current roster, gone is starphuch GM/presidents (Isiah and PHil), and enter an era of development.
You want results to validate the concept? So would ever sports fan on the planet for their team. Get in line, your not different.
But some of us want to talk about the concept and what it means going forward. We are not as emotionally frail. We can stomach disappointment. So in your words your not rooting for frank. Thank you for the clarity.
A player is as good as the position the coaching staff puts him in, the system he is playing in, and obviously his work ethic. I have told you many times that JH and Rambis are the reason franks growth was at a snails pace, or in some cases, at a complete stand still, the development was brutal.
I saw it as early as January, Mills saw, and perry saw it, .
The coaching staff means much more to me than any one player. Players play and work hard for coaches they love,that communicates, you see it all the time, as soon as that stops, it's a wrap for the coach.
The most important thing to chemistry and development is the right fit because if he is not the right fit, it will take that much longer. You see if frank was already a fast down hill player who knocks down 3's(which is fiz system) you eliminates having to teach him how to play like that. Like you don't have to teach knox how to play like that, it's already in him.
knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Nalod wrote:1248 has to skew his “points” because he backed into the Frank hate corner.
Phil is gone dude. Not in the room.
The better teams play better defense. They win more games. It’s there in front of you.
Of course you need a good offense too.
Exactly
Why would i hate frank?
I think that may be the dumbest sht you ever said...smh
Then we have us here a "mexican standoff" in the gutter!
you and fishmike are so funny, like you guys will spin anything i say..even when i agree with you.
Like you both know frank has a long way to go, there's no disputing that, that doesn't mean i don't like him, I'm not rooting for him, or i think he's a finish product, but Until I see some growth in his game, as for now, he is who he is.
"Until I see some growth", well why not just enjoy the process instead of thinking he is who he is. He just turned 20 last week.
If your not rooting, then your hating. If your not rooting for a 20 year old who is still growing, has established some bonafide NBA skills and you are willing at every turn to bend and twist bits and pieces of articles to some how position yourself as some authority then Im truly at a loss for polite words.
Lets agree to disagree: You want empirical evidence before spending any more emotional capital and guys like me are optimistic fanboy rooting for the guy to keep getting better. You want Baron Davis, I want Clyde.
Clyde was 4 years older than Franks rookie season and had a rough rookie year. Now, Nalod is not saying Frank is going to be clyde. But I'd have to say if Clyde instead of playing his senior year in High school played in a very respectible french league that was a key component to making the finals I'd guess he would have distributed the ball a bit as per custom. If Clyde played JR Varsity (No first year player in college played Varsity)played instead in the NBA im not saying that's a bad thing, but JR Varsity at Southern Illinois in 1964 vs. avg 21 minutes in the NBA is a way different experience.
We can tell this tale about many players over and over. Some became NBA all stars and some never did.
So when I say Im won't even label him as you do for 4 more years this is my thought process. And since knicks culture for the moment is to look at younger players who might need more seasoning Im embracing this not as a bonafide path to contention, but a sharp departure from the Starphuch culture of the past.
Gone is Dolan, gone is brand name coaches not aligned with the current roster, gone is starphuch GM/presidents (Isiah and PHil), and enter an era of development.
You want results to validate the concept? So would ever sports fan on the planet for their team. Get in line, your not different.
But some of us want to talk about the concept and what it means going forward. We are not as emotionally frail. We can stomach disappointment. So in your words your not rooting for frank. Thank you for the clarity.
A player is as good as the position the coaching staff puts him in, the system he is playing in, and obviously his work ethic. I have told you many times that JH and Rambis are the reason franks growth was at a snails pace, or in some cases, at a complete stand still, the development was brutal.
I saw it as early as January, Mills saw, and perry saw it, .
The coaching staff means much more to me than any one player. Players play and work hard for coaches they love,that communicates, you see it all the time, as soon as that stops, it's a wrap for the coach.
The most important thing to chemistry and development is the right fit because if he is not the right fit, it will take that much longer. You see if frank was already a fast down hill player who knocks down 3's(which is fiz system) you eliminates having to teach him how to play like that. Like you don't have to teach knox how to play like that, it's already in him.
"He is who he is until he isn't"? That what your saying?
Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Nalod wrote:1248 has to skew his “points” because he backed into the Frank hate corner.
Phil is gone dude. Not in the room.
The better teams play better defense. They win more games. It’s there in front of you.
Of course you need a good offense too.
Exactly
Why would i hate frank?
I think that may be the dumbest sht you ever said...smh
Then we have us here a "mexican standoff" in the gutter!
you and fishmike are so funny, like you guys will spin anything i say..even when i agree with you.
Like you both know frank has a long way to go, there's no disputing that, that doesn't mean i don't like him, I'm not rooting for him, or i think he's a finish product, but Until I see some growth in his game, as for now, he is who he is.
"Until I see some growth", well why not just enjoy the process instead of thinking he is who he is. He just turned 20 last week.
If your not rooting, then your hating. If your not rooting for a 20 year old who is still growing, has established some bonafide NBA skills and you are willing at every turn to bend and twist bits and pieces of articles to some how position yourself as some authority then Im truly at a loss for polite words.
Lets agree to disagree: You want empirical evidence before spending any more emotional capital and guys like me are optimistic fanboy rooting for the guy to keep getting better. You want Baron Davis, I want Clyde.
Clyde was 4 years older than Franks rookie season and had a rough rookie year. Now, Nalod is not saying Frank is going to be clyde. But I'd have to say if Clyde instead of playing his senior year in High school played in a very respectible french league that was a key component to making the finals I'd guess he would have distributed the ball a bit as per custom. If Clyde played JR Varsity (No first year player in college played Varsity)played instead in the NBA im not saying that's a bad thing, but JR Varsity at Southern Illinois in 1964 vs. avg 21 minutes in the NBA is a way different experience.
We can tell this tale about many players over and over. Some became NBA all stars and some never did.
So when I say Im won't even label him as you do for 4 more years this is my thought process. And since knicks culture for the moment is to look at younger players who might need more seasoning Im embracing this not as a bonafide path to contention, but a sharp departure from the Starphuch culture of the past.
Gone is Dolan, gone is brand name coaches not aligned with the current roster, gone is starphuch GM/presidents (Isiah and PHil), and enter an era of development.
You want results to validate the concept? So would ever sports fan on the planet for their team. Get in line, your not different.
But some of us want to talk about the concept and what it means going forward. We are not as emotionally frail. We can stomach disappointment. So in your words your not rooting for frank. Thank you for the clarity.
A player is as good as the position the coaching staff puts him in, the system he is playing in, and obviously his work ethic. I have told you many times that JH and Rambis are the reason franks growth was at a snails pace, or in some cases, at a complete stand still, the development was brutal.
I saw it as early as January, Mills saw, and perry saw it, .
The coaching staff means much more to me than any one player. Players play and work hard for coaches they love,that communicates, you see it all the time, as soon as that stops, it's a wrap for the coach.
The most important thing to chemistry and development is the right fit because if he is not the right fit, it will take that much longer. You see if frank was already a fast down hill player who knocks down 3's(which is fiz system) you eliminates having to teach him how to play like that. Like you don't have to teach knox how to play like that, it's already in him.
"He is who he is until he isn't"? That what your saying?
No what I'm saying is, he is who he is until he proves other wise, which under fiz and his staff i expect a vast improvement
knicks1248 wrote:martin wrote:decision reversed
Good choice...
Agree. Frank might turn the corner on offense at some point, but it might not be here in a year or two, for one big reason. Fizdale's timetable, not the fans, or Franks'
Im guessing Fizdale gave Frank a sense of urgency about learning how he does things. In the end, the most important thing is that Frank is staying focused on the Knicks for the rest of the offseason. Smart move on his part.
Frank is really committed to this upcoming season, he's hungry for that starting PG job. Can't wait to see him in action next season and by how much (if at all) a whole summer working out and training in the U.S. benefits his game.
Not against him backing out of this at all. He will have many opportunities to get another chance at this. Let him develop his game.
Mature decisions.
I think it is a good decision. He is in a three-way battle for the starting spot and I want him to win that battle. Frank's size and defense as the starting pg will give us a huge advantage. But I know, Burke is fighting hard for the top spot, and even Mudiay is trying to get in the mix. If skipping the Fiba games helps Frank solidify the starting spot, I am all for it.
My take is its not a good or a bad thing.
I’m guessing its about not missing any training camp especially with the installation of a a new system.
First week is important. Season starts earlier than in the past. Preseason starts 10/1.
I’m of the opinion that rather than Kyrie or Lillard, Knicks should target Butler. He and Frank would defensively terrorize the league and are so long that matchups would be a nightmare. Add KP and Mitch R and we are very solid defensively. With Burke, Trier,Butler and KP you’ve more than enough scoring. Yes I left Tim off.
