Knicks · OT: Jimmy Butler requests trade (page 3)
Allanfan20 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/jimmy-butler-av...
They're saying that Buttler wants to go to the Clips, doesnt want to play with LeBron. If this article is accurate, I want Butler in NY even less.You have a chance (at close to 30) to contend with LeBron, and you want to pass it up for Kawhi and the Clippers?
Its what concerns me about Butler and Irving. Having their own team seems more important at this stage in their career than contending.I mean that concerns me too although if Butler did it because he wants the challenge of beating LeBron and/or the Warriors, than I respect him. I would think he has just as good a chance with Towns though.... unless they hate each other so much they can’t be around each other.
Thats a good point, might rather beat the King than team up with him. If LeBron was still in the East, getting past him would mean more. Lakers wouldnt even be the best team in the West.
LeBron has a few good seasons left in the tank. Being James's wingman for his final run would mean more to me as a player IMO, than beating James when he's getting close to the age Jordan was with the Wiz.
MS wrote:I am ok with giving up a first round pick for Butler if we can move Lee and Lance Thomas in the deal.We always think getting first round picks are easy and then find later that's not the case.You always have the ability to flip Butler at the deadline too and get that pick back.
GustavBahler wrote:Maybe it's as simple as not wanting to be perceived as a ring chaser?Allanfan20 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/jimmy-butler-av...
They're saying that Buttler wants to go to the Clips, doesnt want to play with LeBron. If this article is accurate, I want Butler in NY even less.You have a chance (at close to 30) to contend with LeBron, and you want to pass it up for Kawhi and the Clippers?
Its what concerns me about Butler and Irving. Having their own team seems more important at this stage in their career than contending.I mean that concerns me too although if Butler did it because he wants the challenge of beating LeBron and/or the Warriors, than I respect him. I would think he has just as good a chance with Towns though.... unless they hate each other so much they can’t be around each other.
Thats a good point, might rather beat the King than team up with him. If LeBron was still in the East, getting past him would mean more. Lakers wouldnt even be the best team in the West.
LeBron has a few good seasons left in the tank. Being James's wingman for his final run would mean more to me as a player IMO, than beating James when he's getting close to the age Jordan was with the Wiz.
Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Maybe it's as simple as not wanting to be perceived as a ring chaser?Allanfan20 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/jimmy-butler-av...
They're saying that Buttler wants to go to the Clips, doesnt want to play with LeBron. If this article is accurate, I want Butler in NY even less.You have a chance (at close to 30) to contend with LeBron, and you want to pass it up for Kawhi and the Clippers?
Its what concerns me about Butler and Irving. Having their own team seems more important at this stage in their career than contending.I mean that concerns me too although if Butler did it because he wants the challenge of beating LeBron and/or the Warriors, than I respect him. I would think he has just as good a chance with Towns though.... unless they hate each other so much they can’t be around each other.
Thats a good point, might rather beat the King than team up with him. If LeBron was still in the East, getting past him would mean more. Lakers wouldnt even be the best team in the West.
LeBron has a few good seasons left in the tank. Being James's wingman for his final run would mean more to me as a player IMO, than beating James when he's getting close to the age Jordan was with the Wiz.
Other destinations (just in the West) which would give Butler a better chance of winning a championship, and pay him what he wants, like the Spurs. Now that Kawhi is gone.
Lakers have a bunch of younger players with no playoff experience. Would be more about the privilege of playing alongside either the best (or 1A) player in NBA history. That would mean more to me than getting by LeBron when he's pushing 40.
From Yahoo..
Timberwolves president-coach Tom Thibodeau reportedly doesn’t want to grant Jimmy Butler‘s trade request, which mostly sounds like Thibodeau trying to preserve leverage.But maybe Thibodeau would actually put his money where he is mouth is.
Sean Deveney of Sporting News:
According to multiple league sources, coach Tom Thibodeau has no intention of letting Butler go for young, rebuilding-type pieces.
Thibodeau has zero interest in taking a step back with Minnesota, even, according to sources, if it means he ultimately parts ways with the team.
“No one expects Tom to coach a 25-win or even 35-win team,” one front-office executive told Sporting News. “Even if he has to agree to dissolve the contract, they’d do that before they go and trade Butler for draft picks.”
It’s unclear how much of this is hearsay. Thibodeau has a reputation for being unrelentingly competitive, and maybe people around the league are just supposing how that applies to his situation in Minnesota.
Remember, Thibodeau went 31-51 his first season with the Timberwolves – by far his worst record as a head coach. He didn’t quit.
He did trade for Butler after that season, though. And that fast-tracked Minnesota to 47 wins and a playoff berth. It would be disheartening to step back after last season’s breakthrough.
But trading Butler wouldn’t mean losing him for nothing. Thibodeau could get helpful veterans in return. They probably wouldn’t match Butler’s contributions. The Timberwolves are operating from a position of weakness considering Butler’s trade request. But trading Butler wouldn’t necessarily mean just subtracting him from this season’s team.
Besides, Minnesota already has franchise-player Karl-Anthony Towns and other solid vets. It’s too late for a full teardown. Minnesota should compete next season no matter how this Butler situation unfolds.
If Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor somehow feels he must force Thibodeau into trading Butler for unready young players and picks, that would signal Taylor has lost faith in Thibodeau running the team. At that point, it might be Taylor – not Thibodeau – ending the relationship.
So, I doubt Thibodeau ever must choose between the scenarios laid out here. But if he faces that choice, I’ll believe he leaves that much money on the table when I see it.
Nalod wrote:jimmy don't fit our timeline.
Irrelevant in this situation.
In terms of effective resource management from a pro sports level, you take the talent depending on cost and if the player provides a value add to your roster.
"Timelines" functionally only matter when you have 1 elite player and he's surrounded by shitty long contracts and a truly gutted asset base ( Melo when he signed his NTC contract is an example of this, Herschel Walker is the classic example)
Whether Butler is a value add to this roster depends on cost.
If the cost is Kanter ( salary match expiring) and next years unprotected first round pick , I say you do it. Butler is more valuable in terms of cost certainty than even a high lottery pick. No one is taking Lee and/or Hardaway. Lee might move if Dieng moves.
The problem with most "timeline" arguments is they rarely account for margin of error. Teams are going to MISS on picks. And sometimes free agents. It happens. Almost all discussion predicates on Zinger coming back healthy for sure and MRob and Knox breaking out. That' far from a guarantee.
Depending on cost, take the talent, figure out the rest later.
TripleThreat wrote:Nalod wrote:jimmy don't fit our timeline.
Irrelevant in this situation.In terms of effective resource management from a pro sports level, you take the talent depending on cost and if the player provides a value add to your roster.
"Timelines" functionally only matter when you have 1 elite player and he's surrounded by shitty long contracts and a truly gutted asset base ( Melo when he signed his NTC contract is an example of this, Herschel Walker is the classic example)
Whether Butler is a value add to this roster depends on cost.
If the cost is Kanter ( salary match expiring) and next years unprotected first round pick , I say you do it. Butler is more valuable in terms of cost certainty than even a high lottery pick. No one is taking Lee and/or Hardaway. Lee might move if Dieng moves.
The problem with most "timeline" arguments is they rarely account for margin of error. Teams are going to MISS on picks. And sometimes free agents. It happens. Almost all discussion predicates on Zinger coming back healthy for sure and MRob and Knox breaking out. That' far from a guarantee.
Depending on cost, take the talent, figure out the rest later.
Butler is not a franchise talent.
GIve up an unprotected pick that actually might yield a franchise talent?
I don’t have KP’s MRI and I don’t know his timeline nor his effectiveness. Butler makes us better no doubt right away.
My assumption is he don’t come cheap and if we take on salary beyond this year we have no money for another free agent. So either way he does not fit the timeline.
YOu make a good point though.
If Jimmy is a cost based move, and every shit publication on earth is reporting he wants $200 mil, why doesn't that end the conversation? Or do you want a youth cancer in the locker room as a rental? For what purpose? Fodder for Berman drama?
Then when KP comes back and doesn't play to Jimmy's acceptability levels, Jimmy can demand a trade to one of three West coast teams.
Pass.
jrodmc wrote:We have a young team, full of first round draft picks. So lets trade away yet another first round pick when we are going to suck donkeykong for at least the next two/three seasons, and then supermax a guy who doesn't get along with anyone and doesn't LEAD young players, instead he demands trades.If Jimmy is a cost based move, and every shit publication on earth is reporting he wants $200 mil, why doesn't that end the conversation? Or do you want a youth cancer in the locker room as a rental? For what purpose? Fodder for Berman drama?
Then when KP comes back and doesn't play to Jimmy's acceptability levels, Jimmy can demand a trade to one of three West coast teams.
Pass.
Jimmy can play Jamie Fox in the Gilbert Arenas bio.
The one that has yet to be written.
GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Maybe it's as simple as not wanting to be perceived as a ring chaser?Allanfan20 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/jimmy-butler-av...
They're saying that Buttler wants to go to the Clips, doesnt want to play with LeBron. If this article is accurate, I want Butler in NY even less.You have a chance (at close to 30) to contend with LeBron, and you want to pass it up for Kawhi and the Clippers?
Its what concerns me about Butler and Irving. Having their own team seems more important at this stage in their career than contending.I mean that concerns me too although if Butler did it because he wants the challenge of beating LeBron and/or the Warriors, than I respect him. I would think he has just as good a chance with Towns though.... unless they hate each other so much they can’t be around each other.
Thats a good point, might rather beat the King than team up with him. If LeBron was still in the East, getting past him would mean more. Lakers wouldnt even be the best team in the West.
LeBron has a few good seasons left in the tank. Being James's wingman for his final run would mean more to me as a player IMO, than beating James when he's getting close to the age Jordan was with the Wiz.
Other destinations (just in the West) which would give Butler a better chance of winning a championship, and pay him what he wants, like the Spurs. Now that Kawhi is gone.
Lakers have a bunch of younger players with no playoff experience. Would be more about the privilege of playing alongside either the best (or 1A) player in NBA history. That would mean more to me than getting by LeBron when he's pushing 40.
I think the Leonard/DeRozan trade killed the Spurs ability to get max salary talent in free agency.
jrodmc wrote:We have a young team, full of first round draft picks. So lets trade away yet another first round pick when we are going to suck donkeykong for at least the next two/three seasons, and then supermax a guy who doesn't get along with anyone and doesn't LEAD young players, instead he demands trades.If Jimmy is a cost based move, and every shit publication on earth is reporting he wants $200 mil, why doesn't that end the conversation? Or do you want a youth cancer in the locker room as a rental? For what purpose? Fodder for Berman drama?
Then when KP comes back and doesn't play to Jimmy's acceptability levels, Jimmy can demand a trade to one of three West coast teams.
Pass.
I'm not giving butler no damn 200 mill, but at the same time, i dont blame him for being hard on the youngsters who don't put in the work and only care about stats.
Wiggins on multiple occasions was complaining about touches, and again, Towns defense is worse then AMARE and Kanter..
At the end of the day, im not giving no 29 yr old a 200 million dollar contract, not after melo and Amare signing with the knicks roughly around the same age..No no no noo
BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Maybe it's as simple as not wanting to be perceived as a ring chaser?Allanfan20 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/jimmy-butler-av...
They're saying that Buttler wants to go to the Clips, doesnt want to play with LeBron. If this article is accurate, I want Butler in NY even less.You have a chance (at close to 30) to contend with LeBron, and you want to pass it up for Kawhi and the Clippers?
Its what concerns me about Butler and Irving. Having their own team seems more important at this stage in their career than contending.I mean that concerns me too although if Butler did it because he wants the challenge of beating LeBron and/or the Warriors, than I respect him. I would think he has just as good a chance with Towns though.... unless they hate each other so much they can’t be around each other.
Thats a good point, might rather beat the King than team up with him. If LeBron was still in the East, getting past him would mean more. Lakers wouldnt even be the best team in the West.
LeBron has a few good seasons left in the tank. Being James's wingman for his final run would mean more to me as a player IMO, than beating James when he's getting close to the age Jordan was with the Wiz.
Other destinations (just in the West) which would give Butler a better chance of winning a championship, and pay him what he wants, like the Spurs. Now that Kawhi is gone.
Lakers have a bunch of younger players with no playoff experience. Would be more about the privilege of playing alongside either the best (or 1A) player in NBA history. That would mean more to me than getting by LeBron when he's pushing 40.
I think the Leonard/DeRozan trade killed the Spurs ability to get max salary talent in free agency.
Might be right. Would have to trade Gasol. They do have some short term contracts that would free up more space as well.
Stand by my point that there are easier ways to get to a ring than joining the Lakers. It would be more about being a part of LeBron's last run.
I get the feeling that some players will regret passing up the opportunity for one more yacht.
Seems the new management is determined not to repeat the mistakes of the past. Thank God.
smackeddog wrote:Melo trade looks even more ridiculous with every passing year- the equivalent today would be trading Mitch, Knox, Mario, Frank/trey Burke and 2 1st rounders for butler. Madness!
It was madness, but attitude reflects leadership (our to be more exact ownership) and us fans had been told for like 3 seasons we were going to go after Lebron in 2010. Far too often the knicks would look at players on other teams that were at their peak and want them instead of doing the work of developing their own youth.
smackeddog wrote:Melo trade looks even more ridiculous with every passing year- the equivalent today would be trading Mitch, Knox, Mario, Frank/trey Burke and 2 1st rounders for butler. Madness!Agreed. Although Dolan stuck his nose in on that one....thankfully he now stays out of it and Perry values picks/youth
smackeddog wrote:Melo trade looks even more ridiculous with every passing year- the equivalent today would be trading Mitch, Knox, Mario, Frank/trey Burke and 2 1st rounders for butler. Madness!
I hated the Melo trade and the one you just stated would be 100% worse.
knickstorrents wrote:Butler and Kyrie - STAY AWAY.
Seems the new management is determined not to repeat the mistakes of the past. Thank God.
Does it? I haven't been reading all the press but weren't there articles about Kyrie being the primary target for this off season? Or was that one of te hacks that usually make shit up?
smackeddog wrote:Melo trade looks even more ridiculous with every passing year- the equivalent today would be trading Mitch, Knox, Mario, Frank/trey Burke and 2 1st rounders for butler. Madness!
Cmon that’s a stretch. The Knicks really just gave up a bunch of quantity for melo and not much quality. The picks hurt but gallo? Meh. Chandler? Meh. Mediocre talents when healthy and Gallo is never healthy.
The worst trades list made by the Knicks doesn’t have melo’s deal anywhere on it.