Knicks · Frank haters can suck it (page 22)

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:So now Knicks1248 but brings up stats from Frank when he was 16 playing with older guys in europe to "prove" Frank shouldnt even of been drafted lol. Trying to decide if its more agenda driven or just pure idiocy.

Yes, hard to consider those stats at that age. Think Franks draft selection is a fair question though. AS long as most realize that most draft picks are still just shots in the dark. Not a secret I liked Smith, Mitchell and Monk over Frank. So not exactly batting 1000. Btw, think it was Gaines who recommended Frank? Same guy that recommended KP. Who btw was also a gamble at the time. I like when teams just pick the best available regardless of need, playing style or system in place. Cuz those always change. As my football Giants usually do. So But like I said, its kinda hard to judge who will pan out. Specially nowadays in the NBA. As most guys only play one year in college. Would like to see players stay in college all four years. Would also like to see schools be forced to pay these kids. As it is the main reason they leave so early.

Most NBA players were their high schools best player, lighting up since 16.

I posted the numbers as additional proof that he has never had a scoring mentality. We don't have the luxury of having any stars on this team, any top scorers, and we lost Knox and Lee to injury, so is it fair to put the scoring load on 2 or 3 players. We're losing games by a hand full of points, and we got two guys on this roster(frank and lance) that don't that part.

Think you have some points. As mentioned, agree that we can have the opinion that we should have taken someone else in 2017. However, feel its too early to judge. Regardless, don't think we are at the point of figuring out how to win more games in the short term. Think the organization, and most, understand that we are in a rebuild mode and are more focused on how to develop players that may help us in a couple of years. Specially with our best player currently injured. No one likes it but thats where we are. Definitely think Frank has to improve on the offensive and have my doubts that he has what it takea mentally to be elite. But then again all of our young players have things to prove and need to improve. Think it will all play out and those that do not improve will be left out of the loop in a couple of years. Some even sooner. Btw. Dont Think many disagree with you that Frank needs to work on his offense. Think they just feel you are willing to give up on our 20 year old 1st rounder right now.

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:So now Knicks1248 but brings up stats from Frank when he was 16 playing with older guys in europe to "prove" Frank shouldnt even of been drafted lol. Trying to decide if its more agenda driven or just pure idiocy.

Yes, hard to consider those stats at that age. Think Franks dYurIraft selection is a fair question though. AS long as most realize that most draft picks are still just shots in the dark. Not a secret I liked Smith, Mitchell and Monk over Frank. So not exactly batting 1000. Btw, think it was Gaines who recommended Frank? Same guy that recommended KP. Who btw was also a gamble at the time. I like when teams just pick the best available regardless of need, playing style or system in place. Cuz those always change. As my football Giants usually do. So But like I said, its kinda hard to judge who will pan out. Specially nowadays in the NBA. As most guys only play one year in college. Would like to see players stay in college all four years. Would also like to see schools be forced to pay these kids. As it is the main reason they leave so early.

Most NBA players were their high schools best player, lighting up since 16.

I posted the numbers as additional proof that he has never had a scoring mentality. We don't have the luxury of having any stars on this team, any top scorers, and we lost Knox and Lee to injury, so is it fair to put the scoring load on 2 or 3 players. We're losing games by a hand full of points, and we got two guys on this roster(frank and lance) that don't that part.

Think you have some points. As mentioned, agree that we can have the opinion that we should have taken someone else in 2017. However, feel its too early to judge. Regardless, don't think we are at the point of figuring out how to win more games in the short term. Think the organization, and most, understand that we are in a rebuild mode and are more focused on how to develop players that may help us in a couple of years. Specially with our best player currently injured. No one likes it but thats where we are. Definitely think Frank has to improve on the offensive and have my doubts that he has what it takea mentally to be elite. But then again all of our young players have things to prove and need to improve. Think it will all play out and those that do not improve will be left out of the loop in a couple of years. Some even sooner. Btw. Dont Think many disagree with you that Frank needs to work on his offense. Think they just feel you are willing to give up on our 20 year old 1st rounder right now.

Good Post. At least you are being fair about it which I respect. I have no problem if anybody prefered someone else at 8. Hell I admitted that I wanted mitchell but im happy with Frank. This year is about rebuilding and the kids. Yes I want wins but thats not as important as letting our kids play and progress through the season

Is this THJrs ceiling?
Offensive Output
Four games into the season, Tim Hardaway Jr. seems like he is off to a great start. The 26 year-old shooting guard has been putting visible effort into both sides of the ball. He currently leads the Knicks in scoring, with a career high 27 points a game, shooting 41.8% from the field. Moreover, he has increased his three point shooting percentage and free throw percentage as well. He is now shooting 37.8% from beyond the arch, as opposed to 34.4 % last year. He also increased his free throw shooting percentage from roughly 80% last season to 90% this season. While these are still early figures, they are indicative of the mind set that Hardaway Jr. is approaching this season with.

Defensive Diligence
On the defensive side of the ball, Hardaway Jr. has worked on taking advantage of passing lanes. He is now averaging 1.5 steals per game. This increase is encouraging, especially in perspective of the latest NBA trend of slacking defense. By setting a precedent for his teammates to still work on that side of the ball, Hardaway Jr. is also emerging as a leader for this squad. Once again, this is an early, but indicative, sign from the shooting guard in his sixth season.

Concluding Conception
When the best player on your team goes down, it’s easy to let team morale to slip to the cracks. The amount of countervailing circumstances don’t make things any better for New York. In spite of it all, Tim Hardaway Jr.’s effort should be even more appreciated. While the team still has its work cut out for it, Hardaway Jr. appears to be leading the way to a more productive season. Now, all New York has to do is capitalize on his efforts.

Cartman718 wrote:Is this THJrs ceiling?
Offensive Output
Four games into the season, Tim Hardaway Jr. seems like he is off to a great start. The 26 year-old shooting guard has been putting visible effort into both sides of the ball. He currently leads the Knicks in scoring, with a career high 27 points a game, shooting 41.8% from the field. Moreover, he has increased his three point shooting percentage and free throw percentage as well. He is now shooting 37.8% from beyond the arch, as opposed to 34.4 % last year. He also increased his free throw shooting percentage from roughly 80% last season to 90% this season. While these are still early figures, they are indicative of the mind set that Hardaway Jr. is approaching this season with.

Defensive Diligence
On the defensive side of the ball, Hardaway Jr. has worked on taking advantage of passing lanes. He is now averaging 1.5 steals per game. This increase is encouraging, especially in perspective of the latest NBA trend of slacking defense. By setting a precedent for his teammates to still work on that side of the ball, Hardaway Jr. is also emerging as a leader for this squad. Once again, this is an early, but indicative, sign from the shooting guard in his sixth season.

Concluding Conception
When the best player on your team goes down, it’s easy to let team morale to slip to the cracks. The amount of countervailing circumstances don’t make things any better for New York. In spite of it all, Tim Hardaway Jr.’s effort should be even more appreciated. While the team still has its work cut out for it, Hardaway Jr. appears to be leading the way to a more productive season. Now, all New York has to do is capitalize on his efforts.

Timmy is doing a surprisingly good job thus far. I was really worried about his inconsistency in the past. It is still early but he has been a tough challenge for most defenses. He has been the type of player that can get hot and can keep you in any game. Yes his shot selection can be improved but that is what you get with an offensive minded player. They think they can make every shot. Didn't think he was worth the contract but so far he is proving me wrong.

Cartman718 wrote:Is this THJrs ceiling?
Offensive Output
Four games into the season, Tim Hardaway Jr. seems like he is off to a great start. The 26 year-old shooting guard has been putting visible effort into both sides of the ball. He currently leads the Knicks in scoring, with a career high 27 points a game, shooting 41.8% from the field. Moreover, he has increased his three point shooting percentage and free throw percentage as well. He is now shooting 37.8% from beyond the arch, as opposed to 34.4 % last year. He also increased his free throw shooting percentage from roughly 80% last season to 90% this season. While these are still early figures, they are indicative of the mind set that Hardaway Jr. is approaching this season with.

Defensive Diligence
On the defensive side of the ball, Hardaway Jr. has worked on taking advantage of passing lanes. He is now averaging 1.5 steals per game. This increase is encouraging, especially in perspective of the latest NBA trend of slacking defense. By setting a precedent for his teammates to still work on that side of the ball, Hardaway Jr. is also emerging as a leader for this squad. Once again, this is an early, but indicative, sign from the shooting guard in his sixth season.

Concluding Conception
When the best player on your team goes down, it’s easy to let team morale to slip to the cracks. The amount of countervailing circumstances don’t make things any better for New York. In spite of it all, Tim Hardaway Jr.’s effort should be even more appreciated. While the team still has its work cut out for it, Hardaway Jr. appears to be leading the way to a more productive season. Now, all New York has to do is capitalize on his efforts.

Too early to tell. We've seen Timmy get hot before and then disappear for stretches. His shot profile looks similar off the eye test and his TS% hasn't changed. I was leery of Dipo's hot start and he went on to have an all-star year. I'm hoping Tim can maintain the momentum.

I'm still trying to understand why Frank "haters" should be sucking it.
36% FG 6.6 PPG 3 APG 2 RPG
Same line as last year. Did i miss something?

4 qtr he picke and rolled (Clyde called this) and he threads (he does this ofte with great accuracy) to Enes who bobbled it. Frank got yanked. This was late in the game. Lessons to for the tape room.
I trust Fiz will build him up.
Love the end to end surge he did and he found himself wide open for a dunk when the defense went to sleep. Looked like Olidipo on that.
Team got rolled in Miami last night. Nobody looked good except Pat Riley.

Panos wrote:I'm still trying to understand why Frank "haters" should be sucking it.
36% FG 6.6 PPG 3 APG 2 RPG
Same line as last year. Did i miss something?

if it's the same line as last year so far, i am good with that...that means things are on the rise soon

Cartman718 wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm still trying to understand why Frank "haters" should be sucking it.
36% FG 6.6 PPG 3 APG 2 RPG
Same line as last year. Did i miss something?

if it's the same line as last year so far, i am good with that...that means things are on the rise soon

Your cool with a player not showing any growth, not even a little bit..wow

I would like to see frank in the G league for a month, just to see I he holds up against lesser talent, maybe that will help with his confidence.

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm still trying to understand why Frank "haters" should be sucking it.
36% FG 6.6 PPG 3 APG 2 RPG
Same line as last year. Did i miss something?

if it's the same line as last year so far, i am good with that...that means things are on the rise soon

Your cool with a player not showing any growth, not even a little bit..wow

I would like to see frank in the G league for a month, just to see I he holds up against lesser talent, maybe that will help with his confidence.

I want more from Frank and feel his growth has been slow. 5 games is a small bucket to measure by.

He is playing SF. And in the starting lineup. Vastly different than last year.

I still want more from him.

Cartman718 wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm still trying to understand why Frank "haters" should be sucking it.
36% FG 6.6 PPG 3 APG 2 RPG
Same line as last year. Did i miss something?

if it's the same line as last year so far, i am good with that...that means things are on the rise soon

How many more minutes per game though?

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm still trying to understand why Frank "haters" should be sucking it.
36% FG 6.6 PPG 3 APG 2 RPG
Same line as last year. Did i miss something?

if it's the same line as last year so far, i am good with that...that means things are on the rise soon

Your cool with a player not showing any growth, not even a little bit..wow

I would like to see frank in the G league for a month, just to see I he holds up against lesser talent, maybe that will help with his confidence.

why the hell should he go to the g league when fiz obviously sees him as a important part and plays him a lot of minutes. I could understand if he wasn’t doing anything but that’s obviously not the case

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm still trying to understand why Frank "haters" should be sucking it.
36% FG 6.6 PPG 3 APG 2 RPG
Same line as last year. Did i miss something?

if it's the same line as last year so far, i am good with that...that means things are on the rise soon

Your cool with a player not showing any growth, not even a little bit..wow

I would like to see frank in the G league for a month, just to see I he holds up against lesser talent, maybe that will help with his confidence.

Where did I say the bolded part? Did you read my post?

GustavBahler wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm still trying to understand why Frank "haters" should be sucking it.
36% FG 6.6 PPG 3 APG 2 RPG
Same line as last year. Did i miss something?

if it's the same line as last year so far, i am good with that...that means things are on the rise soon

How many more minutes per game though?

lineup changes are coming...i have a feeling it will get better soon

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm still trying to understand why Frank "haters" should be sucking it.
36% FG 6.6 PPG 3 APG 2 RPG
Same line as last year. Did i miss something?

if it's the same line as last year so far, i am good with that...that means things are on the rise soon

Your cool with a player not showing any growth, not even a little bit..wow

I would like to see frank in the G league for a month, just to see I he holds up against lesser talent, maybe that will help with his confidence.

why the hell should he go to the g league when fiz obviously sees him as a important part and plays him a lot of minutes. I could understand if he wasn’t doing anything but that’s obviously not the case

He should go to the G league because his development in the NBA is at a snails pace, and he hasn't gain much confidence after playing a total of 83 regular season games (and 14 starts).

Since he never set foot in the G league, you or I have no Idea how that would help his confidence, but we do know that anytime your playing someone you are better than, that tends to boost you confidence.

I know when i was 15(shy, passive like frank and long and lanky) and my brother was 20, i always used to try and play with them, always getting picked last, and always deferring to the bigger guys. When i got to JHS, i started playing with guys my age and size, i started becoming much more aggressive and My confidence was on the rise..

By the time I turned 17, I gradually started playing with my brother again and I became so much better, i mean those dudes were shocked at how good i got. If i had continued to play with them, it would have been a struggle, the touches were far less, and I was always nervous so i would pass the ball on open shots.

I'm just saying, it wouldn't hurt because i have been in his shoes (just not at his level) but i can relate.

knicks1248 wrote:He should go to the G league because his development in the NBA is at a snails pace,

That's an arbitrary perception.

There are good players who clicked mid-rookie year.

There are good players who made leap the start of their second year.

There are good players who regressed their second year.

There are good players who took 3, 4 and 5 years.

If there is some sort of statistical average/timetable as to how and when a (very) young player "develops" I'd like to see it.

Until then I think a lot of people are replacing what they want/assume with what history tells us.

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm still trying to understand why Frank "haters" should be sucking it.
36% FG 6.6 PPG 3 APG 2 RPG
Same line as last year. Did i miss something?

if it's the same line as last year so far, i am good with that...that means things are on the rise soon

Your cool with a player not showing any growth, not even a little bit..wow

I would like to see frank in the G league for a month, just to see I he holds up against lesser talent, maybe that will help with his confidence.

why the hell should he go to the g league when fiz obviously sees him as a important part and plays him a lot of minutes. I could understand if he wasn’t doing anything but that’s obviously not the case

He should go to the G league because his development in the NBA is at a snails pace, and he hasn't gain much confidence after playing a total of 83 regular season games (and 14 starts).

Since he never set foot in the G league, you or I have no Idea how that would help his confidence, but we do know that anytime your playing someone you are better than, that tends to boost you confidence.

I know when i was 15(shy, passive like frank and long and lanky) and my brother was 20, i always used to try and play with them, always getting picked last, and always deferring to the bigger guys. When i got to JHS, i started playing with guys my age and size, i started becoming much more aggressive and My confidence was on the rise..

By the time I turned 17, I gradually started playing with my brother again and I became so much better, i mean those dudes were shocked at how good i got. If i had continued to play with them, it would have been a struggle, the touches were far less, and I was always nervous so i would pass the ball on open shots.

I'm just saying, it wouldn't hurt because i have been in his shoes (just not at his level) but i can relate.

G League makes no sense unless you are really struggling with many aspects of the game. For example when Timmy went he was struggling with everything same as Burke. That’s not the issue with Frank. I’ve also played all my life high school and college ball and I can tell you first hand guys who played smart and played good defense were always around even when they didn’t bring a lot of offense. Hell as a point guard I admit I wasn’t a big scorer but my defense and distribution of the ball really helped make me trustworthy. I’m not trying to compare myself to the pro players but just giving an example. Following the scoresheet isn’t indicative of how important a player is

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm still trying to understand why Frank "haters" should be sucking it.
36% FG 6.6 PPG 3 APG 2 RPG
Same line as last year. Did i miss something?

if it's the same line as last year so far, i am good with that...that means things are on the rise soon

Your cool with a player not showing any growth, not even a little bit..wow

I would like to see frank in the G league for a month, just to see I he holds up against lesser talent, maybe that will help with his confidence.

why the hell should he go to the g league when fiz obviously sees him as a important part and plays him a lot of minutes. I could understand if he wasn’t doing anything but that’s obviously not the case

He should go to the G league because his development in the NBA is at a snails pace, and he hasn't gain much confidence after playing a total of 83 regular season games (and 14 starts).

Since he never set foot in the G league, you or I have no Idea how that would help his confidence, but we do know that anytime your playing someone you are better than, that tends to boost you confidence.

I know when i was 15(shy, passive like frank and long and lanky) and my brother was 20, i always used to try and play with them, always getting picked last, and always deferring to the bigger guys. When i got to JHS, i started playing with guys my age and size, i started becoming much more aggressive and My confidence was on the rise..

By the time I turned 17, I gradually started playing with my brother again and I became so much better, i mean those dudes were shocked at how good i got. If i had continued to play with them, it would have been a struggle, the touches were far less, and I was always nervous so i would pass the ball on open shots.

I'm just saying, it wouldn't hurt because i have been in his shoes (just not at his level) but i can relate.

G League makes no sense unless you are really struggling with many aspects of the game. For example when Timmy went he was struggling with everything same as Burke. That’s not the issue with Frank. I’ve also played all my life high school and college ball and I can tell you first hand guys who played smart and played good defense were always around even when they didn’t bring a lot of offense. Hell as a point guard I admit I wasn’t a big scorer but my defense and distribution of the ball really helped make me trustworthy. I’m not trying to compare myself to the pro players but just giving an example. Following the scoresheet isn’t indicative of how important a player is

THJ was a mess on defense, and thats why he was sent down, Burke had a few teams like the pelicans and suns offer him a contract and he chose the knicks g league.

Not only is frank not shooting enough, when he does, he has less than a 40% chance of making that shot.
If that was Mudiay, you would be screaming for them to be benched his ass.

Sure you can take burke out for DOTSON, but what that means is that the PG guarding frank, and The FWd guarding LT can basically kick their feet up, take selfies with the fans and have a drink while on defense, they have zero to worry about.

Just packed the paint he's shooting 30% from downtown

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Panos wrote:I'm still trying to understand why Frank "haters" should be sucking it.
36% FG 6.6 PPG 3 APG 2 RPG
Same line as last year. Did i miss something?

if it's the same line as last year so far, i am good with that...that means things are on the rise soon

Your cool with a player not showing any growth, not even a little bit..wow

I would like to see frank in the G league for a month, just to see I he holds up against lesser talent, maybe that will help with his confidence.

why the hell should he go to the g league when fiz obviously sees him as a important part and plays him a lot of minutes. I could understand if he wasn’t doing anything but that’s obviously not the case

He should go to the G league because his development in the NBA is at a snails pace, and he hasn't gain much confidence after playing a total of 83 regular season games (and 14 starts).

Since he never set foot in the G league, you or I have no Idea how that would help his confidence, but we do know that anytime your playing someone you are better than, that tends to boost you confidence.

I know when i was 15(shy, passive like frank and long and lanky) and my brother was 20, i always used to try and play with them, always getting picked last, and always deferring to the bigger guys. When i got to JHS, i started playing with guys my age and size, i started becoming much more aggressive and My confidence was on the rise..

By the time I turned 17, I gradually started playing with my brother again and I became so much better, i mean those dudes were shocked at how good i got. If i had continued to play with them, it would have been a struggle, the touches were far less, and I was always nervous so i would pass the ball on open shots.

I'm just saying, it wouldn't hurt because i have been in his shoes (just not at his level) but i can relate.

G League makes no sense unless you are really struggling with many aspects of the game. For example when Timmy went he was struggling with everything same as Burke. That’s not the issue with Frank. I’ve also played all my life high school and college ball and I can tell you first hand guys who played smart and played good defense were always around even when they didn’t bring a lot of offense. Hell as a point guard I admit I wasn’t a big scorer but my defense and distribution of the ball really helped make me trustworthy. I’m not trying to compare myself to the pro players but just giving an example. Following the scoresheet isn’t indicative of how important a player is

THJ was a mess on defense, and thats why he was sent down, Burke had a few teams like the pelicans and suns offer him a contract and he chose the knicks g league.

Not only is frank not shooting enough, when he does, he has less than a 40% chance of making that shot.
If that was Mudiay, you would be screaming for them to be benched his ass.

Sure you can take burke out for DOTSON, but what that means is that the PG guarding frank, and The FWd guarding LT can basically kick their feet up, take selfies with the fans and have a drink while on defense, they have zero to worry about.

Just packed the paint he's shooting 30% from downtown

not really true. I agree frank needs to shoot more but again you simply just look at scoring. Frank still distributed the ball very well and the offense still flows well when that group is on the floor. Fiz said in plain English he wants to set a defensive tone and likes that group... so why would you send your best defender to the G league? Ain’t gonna happen

“Like Coach said, I can’t judge my game off if I’m just scoring,” Burke said. “The way I’m turning guys, the way I’m bringing energy on the defensive end, those areas as well he wants me to improve.”

Almost like burke was speaking to Rainman1248.

I know when i was 15(shy, passive like frank and long and lanky) and my brother was 20, i always used to try and play with them, always getting picked last, and always deferring to the bigger guys. When i got to JHS, i started playing with guys my age and size, i started becoming much more aggressive and My confidence was on the rise..

By the time I turned 17, I gradually started playing with my brother again and I became so much better, i mean those dudes were shocked at how good i got. If i had continued to play with them, it would have been a struggle, the touches were far less, and I was always nervous so i would pass the ball on open shots.

I'm just saying, it wouldn't hurt because i have been in his shoes (just not at his level) but i can relate.

Another of your nonsensical anecdotal stories to prove your point. What ego you must have to even think you can equate your experience to prove a point?
But lets digress, what happened in two year from 15 to 17? Get bigger or stronger? You got better because you played Jr high and that gave you the confidence? What if you just played with big brother for those two years?
So basically you think you can relate even on a microscopic level and think you have the answer? Frank was a year older than your scrawny self and an NBA player. No wonder your messed up about him.

Nalod wrote:

“Like Coach said, I can’t judge my game off if I’m just scoring,” Burke said. “The way I’m turning guys, the way I’m bringing energy on the defensive end, those areas as well he wants me to improve.”

Almost like burke was speaking to Rainman1248.

I know when i was 15(shy, passive like frank and long and lanky) and my brother was 20, i always used to try and play with them, always getting picked last, and always deferring to the bigger guys. When i got to JHS, i started playing with guys my age and size, i started becoming much more aggressive and My confidence was on the rise..

By the time I turned 17, I gradually started playing with my brother again and I became so much better, i mean those dudes were shocked at how good i got. If i had continued to play with them, it would have been a struggle, the touches were far less, and I was always nervous so i would pass the ball on open shots.

I'm just saying, it wouldn't hurt because i have been in his shoes (just not at his level) but i can relate.

Another of your nonsensical anecdotal stories to prove your point. What ego you must have to even think you can equate your experience to prove a point?
But lets digress, what happened in two year from 15 to 17? Get bigger or stronger? You got better because you played Jr high and that gave you the confidence? What if you just played with big brother for those two years?
So basically you think you can relate even on a microscopic level and think you have the answer? Frank was a year older than your scrawny self and an NBA player. No wonder your messed up about him.

your hilarious, people around me always get a good laugh from your lame responses