Knicks · Frank haters can suck it (page 6)

I’m trolling him.

Nalod wrote:I'm trolling him.

And I am trolling everyone... So mods have me on SentClock...

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:That highlighted statement is highly ignorant when applied to a 20 year old.

Age is both relevant and irrelevant.

Under 25 and less than three years of actual healthy rotation minutes in the NBA, then the ceiling is still in flux.

At or above 25 with less than three years of actual healthy rotation minutes in the NBA, then the floor is still in flux.

It matters less than Frank N is 20 than the issue that he's only spent one year in the league. If he got into the league at just turned 18 and on the edge of being 21, then that might be different. Rare, but you can be 20 and have your prime developmental window close on you.

Lots of people point out that Burke or Kanter are only X age. Sure, if you want to be an accountant. In the NBA, after your third year, barring major injuries or just no playing time, you are going to show what you will likely be the rest of your career.

Knicks1248 doesn't want to wait 2 more years to be sure of what Frank N could be. Now 1248 could be right two years from now and be vindicated. But the issue is I don't think 1248 actually understands that it would take a couple of more years to be sure.

I don't think some of you guys see he's trolling you.

I don't think I say anything regarding frank that isn't painfully obvious, he's not a good or even decent offensive player.

For 4 yrs prior to playing in the NBA, he was taught system basketball, Frank is a system player, brought here to run a system, and plays like it. He jogs the ball up, goes to the left, hands it off and runs to his spot, if the first pass isn't there, he'll set up a P/R.

Now you want him to run and play free wheeling basketball, that's like telling Shaq or D Howard (when they came in the league) to shoot more 3's and 18 foot jump shots...Good luck with that.

Fiz has already said I'm going to let him be him (that's how I feel) and live with it "IF" it's helping us win

If we're not progressing as a team, and his improvement is little to none, then he'll probably end up like mudiay (getting traded) or Mario and Vonleh (going somewhere for a better fit)

knicks1248 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:That highlighted statement is highly ignorant when applied to a 20 year old.

Age is both relevant and irrelevant.

Under 25 and less than three years of actual healthy rotation minutes in the NBA, then the ceiling is still in flux.

At or above 25 with less than three years of actual healthy rotation minutes in the NBA, then the floor is still in flux.

It matters less than Frank N is 20 than the issue that he's only spent one year in the league. If he got into the league at just turned 18 and on the edge of being 21, then that might be different. Rare, but you can be 20 and have your prime developmental window close on you.

Lots of people point out that Burke or Kanter are only X age. Sure, if you want to be an accountant. In the NBA, after your third year, barring major injuries or just no playing time, you are going to show what you will likely be the rest of your career.

Knicks1248 doesn't want to wait 2 more years to be sure of what Frank N could be. Now 1248 could be right two years from now and be vindicated. But the issue is I don't think 1248 actually understands that it would take a couple of more years to be sure.

I don't think some of you guys see he's trolling you.

I don't think I say anything regarding frank
that isn't painfully obvious, he's not a good or even decent offensive player.
]For 4 yrs prior to playing in the NBA, he was taught system basketball, Frank is a system player, brought here to run a system, and plays like it. He jogs the ball up, goes to the left, hands it off and runs to his spot, if the first pass isn't there, he'll set up a P/R.

Now you want him to run and play free wheeling basketball, that's like telling Shaq or D Howard (when they came in the league) to shoot more 3's and 18 foot jump shots...Good luck with that.

Fiz has already said I'm going to let him be him (that's how I feel) and live with it "IF" it's helping us win

If we're not progressing as a team, and his improvement is little to none, then he'll probably end up like mudiay (getting traded) or Mario and Vonleh (going somewhere for a better fit)

Fixed.
Freaking Rainman gotta say "Never" over and over again.
While Rainman is focused on what Frank is not, some focus on what Frank IS. MUdiay, Mario and Vonleh did not stand out in any facet of their games. Frank does.
Nobody argues they'd like to see his offensive game advance. Rainman demonstrates linear focus on "Never".
Nalod linear focus on Rainman. Almost as sad.

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:That highlighted statement is highly ignorant when applied to a 20 year old.

Age is both relevant and irrelevant.

Under 25 and less than three years of actual healthy rotation minutes in the NBA, then the ceiling is still in flux.

At or above 25 with less than three years of actual healthy rotation minutes in the NBA, then the floor is still in flux.

It matters less than Frank N is 20 than the issue that he's only spent one year in the league. If he got into the league at just turned 18 and on the edge of being 21, then that might be different. Rare, but you can be 20 and have your prime developmental window close on you.

Lots of people point out that Burke or Kanter are only X age. Sure, if you want to be an accountant. In the NBA, after your third year, barring major injuries or just no playing time, you are going to show what you will likely be the rest of your career.

Knicks1248 doesn't want to wait 2 more years to be sure of what Frank N could be. Now 1248 could be right two years from now and be vindicated. But the issue is I don't think 1248 actually understands that it would take a couple of more years to be sure.

I don't think some of you guys see he's trolling you.

I don't think I say anything regarding frank
that isn't painfully obvious, he's not a good or even decent offensive player.
]For 4 yrs prior to playing in the NBA, he was taught system basketball, Frank is a system player, brought here to run a system, and plays like it. He jogs the ball up, goes to the left, hands it off and runs to his spot, if the first pass isn't there, he'll set up a P/R.

Now you want him to run and play free wheeling basketball, that's like telling Shaq or D Howard (when they came in the league) to shoot more 3's and 18 foot jump shots...Good luck with that.

Fiz has already said I'm going to let him be him (that's how I feel) and live with it "IF" it's helping us win

If we're not progressing as a team, and his improvement is little to none, then he'll probably end up like mudiay (getting traded) or Mario and Vonleh (going somewhere for a better fit)

Fixed.
Freaking Rainman gotta say "Never" over and over again.
While Rainman is focused on what Frank is not, some focus on what Frank IS. MUdiay, Mario and Vonleh did not stand out in any facet of their games. Frank does.
Nobody argues they'd like to see his offensive game advance. Rainman demonstrates linear focus on "Never".
Nalod linear focus on Rainman. Almost as sad.

Trolling takes a singular focus at times. Not always, but sometimes.

Nalod's self-depreciation is laudable!

Stat lines for the point guards thus far in the preseason have resulted in the following:

Trey Burke: .318/.250/.875, 7.3 points, 1.7 rebounds and 2.0 assists in 15.6 minutes
Frank Ntilikina: .398/.500/N/A, 5.3 points, 1.3 rebounds and 1.3 assists in 17.7 minutes
Emmanuel Mudiay: .167/.000/.500, 2.7 points, 2.7 rebounds and 4.0 assists in 17.7 minutes

IMO Frank has outplayed Burke and Mudiay. The Knicks need to stop hindering the kid and give him the reigns. Trade Mudiay and make Burke the 6th man.

TheGame wrote:Stat lines for the point guards thus far in the preseason have resulted in the following:

Trey Burke: .318/.250/.875, 7.3 points, 1.7 rebounds and 2.0 assists in 15.6 minutes
Frank Ntilikina: .398/.500/N/A, 5.3 points, 1.3 rebounds and 1.3 assists in 17.7 minutes
Emmanuel Mudiay: .167/.000/.500, 2.7 points, 2.7 rebounds and 4.0 assists in 17.7 minutes

IMO Frank has outplayed Burke and Mudiay. The Knicks need to stop hindering the kid and give him the reigns. Trade Mudiay and make Burke the 6th man.

They've all been different degrees of meh. No one is head and shoulders above the rest, not yet anyway. Im guessing Burke will get the call. Dont believe that Fizdale will give Frank the reigns in the regular season until he shows some offense. Not a choice between where Frank is now, and expecting elite performance. Low double digits would probably do it, Im guessing.

Frank needs to take the job from Burke, if it ends up being its a question of just one of them starting. Dont believe he's done that yet.

GustavBahler wrote:

TheGame wrote:Stat lines for the point guards thus far in the preseason have resulted in the following:

Trey Burke: .318/.250/.875, 7.3 points, 1.7 rebounds and 2.0 assists in 15.6 minutes
Frank Ntilikina: .398/.500/N/A, 5.3 points, 1.3 rebounds and 1.3 assists in 17.7 minutes
Emmanuel Mudiay: .167/.000/.500, 2.7 points, 2.7 rebounds and 4.0 assists in 17.7 minutes

IMO Frank has outplayed Burke and Mudiay. The Knicks need to stop hindering the kid and give him the reigns. Trade Mudiay and make Burke the 6th man.

They've all been different degrees of meh. No one is head and shoulders above the rest, not yet anyway. Im guessing Burke will get the call. Dont believe that Fizdale will give Frank the reigns in the regular season until he shows some offense. Not a choice between where Frank is now, and expecting elite performance. Low double digits would probably do it, Im guessing.

Frank needs to take the job from Burke, if it ends up being its a question of just one of them starting. Dont believe he's done that yet.

Agreed...its Treys job to lose. Can't put too much stock in the pre season especially when some players are only getting 15 mins per...Hard to get into a rhythm that way, plus some players are just trying not to get hurt.

Let's not forget what Trey did when he finally an opportunity to start. He was perhaps our bets player....

From all accounts on any quote by Fiz he does not see frank as a PG.
He sees him as a Wing either at the 2 or three.
That does not mean Tray by default, but its not a Trey vs. frank thing from what I read.

Nalod wrote:From all accounts on any quote by Fiz he does not see frank as a PG.
He sees him as a Wing either at the 2 or three.
That does not mean Tray by default, but its not a Trey vs. frank thing from what I read.

positionless is the keyword, stop putting players in the limited boxes(numbers), it is outdated.

Nalod wrote:From all accounts on any quote by Fiz he does not see frank as a PG.
He sees him as a Wing either at the 2 or three.
That does not mean Tray by default, but its not a Trey vs. frank thing from what I read.

Yeah. Look I dont care if Frank isnt the starting point guard at first, he can play multiple positions. The fact is he is a BIG part of this team and a BIG part of the future. Trey hasnt exactly grabbed the brass ring even still. I dont see him here next year anyway once free agency begins

Bondy tweeted that Ntilikina is starting at the point tonight.

CrushAlot wrote:Bondy tweeted that Ntilikina is starting at the point tonight.

His defense alone is going to prove to be too valueable to even keep out. He’s going to eventually need to start and finish.

I think frank shots selection is his number 1 problem, those long ass 2's(that he would take in a triangle set) are very low percentage shots, and it doesn't help his confidence when they brick off the rim. Every player has a sweet spot, whats his?

One thing is for certain..he's not a 2g or a Pg so maybe his best position is Sf

knicks1248 wrote:I think frank shots selection is his number 1 problem, those long ass 2's(that he would take in a triangle set) are very low percentage shots, and it doesn't help his confidence when they brick off the rim. Every player has a sweet spot, whats his?

One thing is for certain..he's not a 2g or a Pg so maybe his best position is Sf

He wasnt bricking shots last night.

Allanfan20 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Bondy tweeted that Ntilikina is starting at the point tonight.

His defense alone is going to prove to be too valueable to even keep out. He’s going to eventually need to start and finish.

Yup. Last night he probably would admit he had a off night defensively. Although thats never the case on most nights. The good news is that he has been aggressive offensively since the SL. Only one game he was quiet offensively. Its a good positive step. Obviously its gonna take another year or even 2 but thats ok in our rebuilding situation

Frank has improved, but he still has a way to go on offense. But he's a hard worker and a smart player, so he should continue to improve offensively, while playing very good d.

Ira wrote:Frank has improved, but he still has a way to go on offense. But he's a hard worker and a smart player, so he should continue to improve offensively, while playing very good d.

Of Course. Thats a very fair assessment. We all know his defense is his biggest strength and the offense will take some time to blossom. The reason i have been happy since the SL is because he looks much more aggresive, not passing up shots,and even taking it to the hoop. He still such a young kid but with more experience things should start to get easier for him

Frank will continue to improve. ItI know he can play multiple positions or whatever, but his handle needs to improve. His shot needs to improve. He needs to get bigger. He's got a long way to go.

Way I see it:
Yes, Trey Burke is the best PG on the team. If Knox is starting at SF, Timmy at the 2, then if your going by pure position he should get the nod.
If the goal is tread water, he starts.
But if the goal is develop the team and immediate wins are not the priority then its a whole other mindset.
Lets not forget who this coach is and his background.......His winning paradigm is the Miami Heat and the success of that team was the speed on which they played defense on. When accomplished:
"Defense creates fast break and up-tempo opportunities".
But, but, but.........

If that is the goal, yes, Frank has his place on the floor. Either start, finish, what ever. Maybe not now, maybe next year, or the year after. He'll be 22. The offense will come. In a RainMan timeline that's like eternity and we all deserve better but we don't get what we deserve, we get what is.
So if the LONG TERM GOAL is to create a team that plays solid defense and its that which starts the uptempo then I focus on building on that. Its why I said cut Burke. Mudiaye and Mario are struggling because they are learning. They will be given time, its early. Its earlier than early! Its prePhuchingSeason!

Whats best for the team now vs. midseason, end of season, next season are very different thought processes.
Fiz knows what he's doing. We don't. Fiz don't know the outcome, we sure as hell don't.

Nalod wrote:Way I see it:
Yes, Trey Burke is the best PG on the team. If Knox is starting at SF, Timmy at the 2, then if your going by pure position he should get the nod.
If the goal is tread water, he starts.
But if the goal is develop the team and immediate wins are not the priority then its a whole other mindset.
Lets not forget who this coach is and his background.......His winning paradigm is the Miami Heat and the success of that team was the speed on which they played defense on. When accomplished:
"Defense creates fast break and up-tempo opportunities".
But, but, but.........

If that is the goal, yes, Frank has his place on the floor. Either start, finish, what ever. Maybe not now, maybe next year, or the year after. He'll be 22. The offense will come. In a RainMan timeline that's like eternity and we all deserve better but we don't get what we deserve, we get what is.
So if the LONG TERM GOAL is to create a team that plays solid defense and its that which starts the uptempo then I focus on building on that. Its why I said cut Burke. Mudiaye and Mario are struggling because they are learning. They will be given time, its early. Its earlier than early! Its prePhuchingSeason!

Whats best for the team now vs. midseason, end of season, next season are very different thought processes.
Fiz knows what he's doing. We don't. Fiz don't know the outcome, we sure as hell don't.

Fiz said all positions are open and that he wanted a dog fight between the guys to see who earns their starting spot. That doesn't flow with Burke is better right now but he should be cut so Frank can play more minutes. Nothing wrong with earning your minutes and doing what you need to do to win your job. Fiz has already said Lance is starting. It will be interesting to see what happens with Lee when he is healthy.