Knicks · Game Thread: The Bucks Stop Here! - 8 pm ET (page 13)

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how could frank not attempt a single shot in the 2nd half and played the most minutes is beyond me, that's ridiculous for anybody

I asked this in the Frank thread. Is his defense that good to justify having him play so many minutes not contributing anything offensively?

At some point it wont. Believe Fizdale is giving Frank the minutes to develop his offense. I dont know where that line is with Fizdale, but at some point the lack of production is going to cost Frank PT. Guys are going to pass him.

I think Dotson might move into the starting 5 at some point in place of Lance or Frank. Dotson is such a good rebounder and he has an offensive game. I am not sure which guy should go to the bench. Lance communicates so much on d and Frank is such a good defender it will be a tough decision.

I have always loved dotson but I dont see him as a starter. Perfect guy off the bench

Knicks need scoring, rebounding and defense from their forwards. Dotson does all three things well. The current starting forwards don't score or rebound well.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how could frank not attempt a single shot in the 2nd half and played the most minutes is beyond me, that's ridiculous for anybody

I asked this in the Frank thread. Is his defense that good to justify having him play so many minutes not contributing anything offensively?

At some point it wont. Believe Fizdale is giving Frank the minutes to develop his offense. I dont know where that line is with Fizdale, but at some point the lack of production is going to cost Frank PT. Guys are going to pass him.

its 4 games into the season. Other guys get hot so the ball will go to them. Frank got hot in the net game. It happens for different guys

At some point Frank has to get hot. Otherwise he will have a hard time justifying the minutes when a real two-way player is behind him on the bench, and playing well.

Frank is gonna get minutes no matter what his presence is too important. But yeah if its a good chunk of the season then I would agree. Lets see what happens. Still a very young kid

Hope Frank realizes that another player can become more important in the Knicks plans, pretty fast. Some hungry players behind him. Age as an explanation has a shelf life.

Frank is hungry. Frank has a pretty high motor

Needs to be hungry on offense. Its the difference between a role player and a starter, for Frank.

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how could frank not attempt a single shot in the 2nd half and played the most minutes is beyond me, that's ridiculous for anybody

I asked this in the Frank thread. Is his defense that good to justify having him play so many minutes not contributing anything offensively?

At some point it wont. Believe Fizdale is giving Frank the minutes to develop his offense. I dont know where that line is with Fizdale, but at some point the lack of production is going to cost Frank PT. Guys are going to pass him.

I think Dotson might move into the starting 5 at some point in place of Lance or Frank. Dotson is such a good rebounder and he has an offensive game. I am not sure which guy should go to the bench. Lance communicates so much on d and Frank is such a good defender it will be a tough decision.

I have always loved dotson but I dont see him as a starter. Perfect guy off the bench

Knicks need scoring, rebounding and defense from their forwards. Dotson does all three things well. The current starting forwards don't score or rebound well.

lets wait and see what dotson does. He has had a couple good games but we know that could go the other way too. This year is more about knox,frank,Mitch,and you can throw dotson in there too. I woukdnt mind seeing fank and dotson starting together...looked good tonight

Welpee wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how could frank not attempt a single shot in the 2nd half and played the most minutes is beyond me, that's ridiculous for anybody

Yes. This IS a problem, especially starting Lance too. It’s like our starting lineup sucks because of that but then the bench comes to the rescue. No, I think a change has to be made. If Frankie is too valuable in the starting lineup, make him the Pg. Get Hezonja and feed him, Jr. and Kanter. Or force feed Frankie and make them run plays for him? This has to be fixed now because it’s starting to look like this is the version of Frank we are getting.

I know Frank is very young but I need to at least see flashes of improvement.

Exactly. It’s priotity #1 here. If loses are gonna mount, at least give me improvement. Right now with Frankie, a 4-12 night constantly would be an improvement considering how passive he is on O.

Run plays for Frank! If he won’t do it on his own, push some plays his way and maybe he will get more offensive awareness going. He can’t keep playing 30+ with 5pts to show for it.

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how could frank not attempt a single shot in the 2nd half and played the most minutes is beyond me, that's ridiculous for anybody

I asked this in the Frank thread. Is his defense that good to justify having him play so many minutes not contributing anything offensively?

At some point it wont. Believe Fizdale is giving Frank the minutes to develop his offense. I dont know where that line is with Fizdale, but at some point the lack of production is going to cost Frank PT. Guys are going to pass him.

its 4 games into the season. Other guys get hot so the ball will go to them. Frank got hot in the net game. It happens for different guys

At some point Frank has to get hot. Otherwise he will have a hard time justifying the minutes when a real two-way player is behind him on the bench, and playing well.

Frank is gonna get minutes no matter what his presence is too important. But yeah if its a good chunk of the season then I would agree. Lets see what happens. Still a very young kid

Hope Frank realizes that another player can become more important in the Knicks plans, pretty fast. Some hungry players behind him. Age as an explanation has a shelf life.

Frank is hungry. Frank has a pretty high motor

Needs to be hungry on offense. Its the difference between a role player and a starter, for Frank.

I think he is. He is looking for his shot,its just has been off the past two games

Knicksfan wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how could frank not attempt a single shot in the 2nd half and played the most minutes is beyond me, that's ridiculous for anybody

Yes. This IS a problem, especially starting Lance too. It’s like our starting lineup sucks because of that but then the bench comes to the rescue. No, I think a change has to be made. If Frankie is too valuable in the starting lineup, make him the Pg. Get Hezonja and feed him, Jr. and Kanter. Or force feed Frankie and make them run plays for him? This has to be fixed now because it’s starting to look like this is the version of Frank we are getting.

I know Frank is very young but I need to at least see flashes of improvement.

Exactly. It’s priotity #1 here. If loses are gonna mount, at least give me improvement. Right now with Frankie, a 4-12 night constantly would be an improvement considering how passive he is on O.

Run plays for Frank! If he won’t do it on his own, push some plays his way and maybe he will get more offensive awareness going. He can’t keep playing 30+ with 5pts to show for it.

well I agree fiz should run more plays for him. He did it against brooklyn and frank had 7 straight points and got us back in it. Hopefully fiz does it more

Dot brings scoring AND defense. If this trend continues, getting Either Dot or Mario in the starting lineup as the SF will be necessary. That along with using Frank more as a 1.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how could frank not attempt a single shot in the 2nd half and played the most minutes is beyond me, that's ridiculous for anybody

I asked this in the Frank thread. Is his defense that good to justify having him play so many minutes not contributing anything offensively?

At some point it wont. Believe Fizdale is giving Frank the minutes to develop his offense. I dont know where that line is with Fizdale, but at some point the lack of production is going to cost Frank PT. Guys are going to pass him.

I think Dotson might move into the starting 5 at some point in place of Lance or Frank. Dotson is such a good rebounder and he has an offensive game. I am not sure which guy should go to the bench. Lance communicates so much on d and Frank is such a good defender it will be a tough decision.

I have always loved dotson but I dont see him as a starter. Perfect guy off the bench

Knicks need scoring, rebounding and defense from their forwards. Dotson does all three things well. The current starting forwards don't score or rebound well.

lets wait and see what dotson does. He has had a couple good games but we know that could go the other way too. This year is more about knox,frank,Mitch,and you can throw dotson in there too. I woukdnt mind seeing fank and dotson starting together...looked good tonight

Frank doesn't have to go to the bench. It could be Lance. I think the teams chance at being successful is handicapped by having 2 forwards starting that don't score or rebound.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how could frank not attempt a single shot in the 2nd half and played the most minutes is beyond me, that's ridiculous for anybody

I asked this in the Frank thread. Is his defense that good to justify having him play so many minutes not contributing anything offensively?

At some point it wont. Believe Fizdale is giving Frank the minutes to develop his offense. I dont know where that line is with Fizdale, but at some point the lack of production is going to cost Frank PT. Guys are going to pass him.

its 4 games into the season. Other guys get hot so the ball will go to them. Frank got hot in the net game. It happens for different guys

At some point Frank has to get hot. Otherwise he will have a hard time justifying the minutes when a real two-way player is behind him on the bench, and playing well.

Frank is gonna get minutes no matter what his presence is too important. But yeah if its a good chunk of the season then I would agree. Lets see what happens. Still a very young kid

Hope Frank realizes that another player can become more important in the Knicks plans, pretty fast. Some hungry players behind him. Age as an explanation has a shelf life.

Frank is hungry. Frank has a pretty high motor

Needs to be hungry on offense. Its the difference between a role player and a starter, for Frank.

I think he is. He is looking for his shot,its just has been off the past two games

Still passes up too many opportunities.

Knicksfan wrote:Dot brings scoring AND defense. If this trend continues, getting Either Dot or Mario in the starting lineup as the SF will be necessary. That along with using Frank more as a 1.

This. He also is an excellent rebounder for a wing. He is a nice fit to play with KP eventually in part because KP is not a great rebounder.

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how could frank not attempt a single shot in the 2nd half and played the most minutes is beyond me, that's ridiculous for anybody

I asked this in the Frank thread. Is his defense that good to justify having him play so many minutes not contributing anything offensively?

At some point it wont. Believe Fizdale is giving Frank the minutes to develop his offense. I dont know where that line is with Fizdale, but at some point the lack of production is going to cost Frank PT. Guys are going to pass him.

its 4 games into the season. Other guys get hot so the ball will go to them. Frank got hot in the net game. It happens for different guys

At some point Frank has to get hot. Otherwise he will have a hard time justifying the minutes when a real two-way player is behind him on the bench, and playing well.

Frank is gonna get minutes no matter what his presence is too important. But yeah if its a good chunk of the season then I would agree. Lets see what happens. Still a very young kid

Hope Frank realizes that another player can become more important in the Knicks plans, pretty fast. Some hungry players behind him. Age as an explanation has a shelf life.

Frank is hungry. Frank has a pretty high motor

Needs to be hungry on offense. Its the difference between a role player and a starter, for Frank.

I think he is. He is looking for his shot,its just has been off the past two games

Still passes up too many opportunities.

not as much as last year. Its a 4 game sample so lets give a kid a chance. Unfortunately for him he hasnt knocked the shots down the past two games hopefully next game they start going down

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how could frank not attempt a single shot in the 2nd half and played the most minutes is beyond me, that's ridiculous for anybody

I asked this in the Frank thread. Is his defense that good to justify having him play so many minutes not contributing anything offensively?

At some point it wont. Believe Fizdale is giving Frank the minutes to develop his offense. I dont know where that line is with Fizdale, but at some point the lack of production is going to cost Frank PT. Guys are going to pass him.

its 4 games into the season. Other guys get hot so the ball will go to them. Frank got hot in the net game. It happens for different guys

At some point Frank has to get hot. Otherwise he will have a hard time justifying the minutes when a real two-way player is behind him on the bench, and playing well.

Frank is gonna get minutes no matter what his presence is too important. But yeah if its a good chunk of the season then I would agree. Lets see what happens. Still a very young kid

Hope Frank realizes that another player can become more important in the Knicks plans, pretty fast. Some hungry players behind him. Age as an explanation has a shelf life.

Frank is hungry. Frank has a pretty high motor

Needs to be hungry on offense. Its the difference between a role player and a starter, for Frank.

I think he is. He is looking for his shot,its just has been off the past two games

Still passes up too many opportunities.

not as much as last year. Its a 4 game sample so lets give a kid a chance. Unfortunately for him he hasnt knocked the shots down the past two games hopefully next game they start going down

Commenting on this game. how Frank played. Not calling the season.

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:Dot brings scoring AND defense. If this trend continues, getting Either Dot or Mario in the starting lineup as the SF will be necessary. That along with using Frank more as a 1.

This. He also is an excellent rebounder for a wing. He is a nice fit to play with KP eventually in part because KP is not a great rebounder.

Frank played 35 minutes and had 1 rebound. Lance was better tonight, grabbing 4 boards. But take away the deficit on offense you have playing them together and look at rebounding. The starting forwards had 5 rebounds combined. The Knicks were out rebounded 55-43.

Past few years Knicks had a decent record 1st 20 games in and then fell apart. We'd all sign for the opposite.
Everyone's hustling - and individually shining in spots- Fiz has helped allow that- but it's not pre-season and I don't want a chill and tank year. I would prefer to miss the playoffs by one game with the rooks being awesome than lose for a ping pong. Really get the team set to have a playing style and cohesive O and D taking advantage of talents.

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how could frank not attempt a single shot in the 2nd half and played the most minutes is beyond me, that's ridiculous for anybody

I asked this in the Frank thread. Is his defense that good to justify having him play so many minutes not contributing anything offensively?

At some point it wont. Believe Fizdale is giving Frank the minutes to develop his offense. I dont know where that line is with Fizdale, but at some point the lack of production is going to cost Frank PT. Guys are going to pass him.

its 4 games into the season. Other guys get hot so the ball will go to them. Frank got hot in the net game. It happens for different guys

At some point Frank has to get hot. Otherwise he will have a hard time justifying the minutes when a real two-way player is behind him on the bench, and playing well.

Frank is gonna get minutes no matter what his presence is too important. But yeah if its a good chunk of the season then I would agree. Lets see what happens. Still a very young kid

Hope Frank realizes that another player can become more important in the Knicks plans, pretty fast. Some hungry players behind him. Age as an explanation has a shelf life.

Frank is hungry. Frank has a pretty high motor

Needs to be hungry on offense. Its the difference between a role player and a starter, for Frank.

A bit of a downer seeing Frank passive on offense (still). But, notice how much better the offense runs with him out there?
NOT comparing him to great pg's, but I remember when Kid was here (outside of his occasional sick passing), he just got the offense moving.
I think a lot of this happens with Frank and it is his BB IQ. You may not see it outwardly, but when watching the game, it grows on you.
Oh, he led the team in assists.

93BUICK wrote:Past few years Knicks had a decent record 1st 20 games in and then fell apart. We'd all sign for the opposite.
Everyone's hustling - and individually shining in spots- Fiz has helped allow that- but it's not pre-season and I don't want a chill and tank year. I would prefer to miss the playoffs by one game with the rooks being awesome than lose for a ping pong. Really get the team set to have a playing style and cohesive O and D taking advantage of talents.

Absolutely. We need a high pick AND going into the offseason we need to give the impression we're on an upward swing to make us more attractive to free agents, therefore I'd much rather we lose big now, and hopefully improve and start to win a few more later on in the season.

smackeddog wrote:

93BUICK wrote:Past few years Knicks had a decent record 1st 20 games in and then fell apart. We'd all sign for the opposite.
Everyone's hustling - and individually shining in spots- Fiz has helped allow that- but it's not pre-season and I don't want a chill and tank year. I would prefer to miss the playoffs by one game with the rooks being awesome than lose for a ping pong. Really get the team set to have a playing style and cohesive O and D taking advantage of talents.

Absolutely. We need a high pick AND going into the offseason we need to give the impression we're on an upward swing to make us more attractive to free agents, therefore I'd much rather we lose big now, and hopefully improve and start to win a few more later on in the season.

Dont want to hear the T word, barely a week into the season. lol.

You guys are discounting the importance of playoff experience for the younger players. Cant contend down the road without it.

Losing lots of games under the new lotto rules doesnt pay off like it used to.

Id rather make the playoffs, and worry about the draft later. Youngest team in the league already, lots of talent there. We need more quality vets, making the playoffs after a long drought would get some of their attention in free agency.

Doubt playoffs will happen, still want the Knicks to play with that goal in mind. Not flushing the season for a draft pick.

GustavBahler wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

93BUICK wrote:Past few years Knicks had a decent record 1st 20 games in and then fell apart. We'd all sign for the opposite.
Everyone's hustling - and individually shining in spots- Fiz has helped allow that- but it's not pre-season and I don't want a chill and tank year. I would prefer to miss the playoffs by one game with the rooks being awesome than lose for a ping pong. Really get the team set to have a playing style and cohesive O and D taking advantage of talents.

Absolutely. We need a high pick AND going into the offseason we need to give the impression we're on an upward swing to make us more attractive to free agents, therefore I'd much rather we lose big now, and hopefully improve and start to win a few more later on in the season.

Dont want to hear the T word, barely a week into the season. lol.

You guys are discounting the importance of playoff experience for the younger players. Cant contend down the road without it.

Losing lots of games under the new lotto rules doesnt pay off like it used to.

Id rather make the playoffs, and worry about the draft later. Youngest team in the league already, lots of talent there. We need more quality vets, making the playoffs after a long drought would get some of their attention in free agency.

Doubt playoffs will happen, still want the Knicks to play with that goal in mind. Not flushing the season for a draft pick.

not rooting for losses but I high draft pick is more valuable than a few extra wins. Without KP we dont stand much of a chance anyway. The most important thing is the kids developing and going through their ups and downs

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

93BUICK wrote:Past few years Knicks had a decent record 1st 20 games in and then fell apart. We'd all sign for the opposite.
Everyone's hustling - and individually shining in spots- Fiz has helped allow that- but it's not pre-season and I don't want a chill and tank year. I would prefer to miss the playoffs by one game with the rooks being awesome than lose for a ping pong. Really get the team set to have a playing style and cohesive O and D taking advantage of talents.

Absolutely. We need a high pick AND going into the offseason we need to give the impression we're on an upward swing to make us more attractive to free agents, therefore I'd much rather we lose big now, and hopefully improve and start to win a few more later on in the season.

Dont want to hear the T word, barely a week into the season. lol.

You guys are discounting the importance of playoff experience for the younger players. Cant contend down the road without it.

Losing lots of games under the new lotto rules doesnt pay off like it used to.

Id rather make the playoffs, and worry about the draft later. Youngest team in the league already, lots of talent there. We need more quality vets, making the playoffs after a long drought would get some of their attention in free agency.

Doubt playoffs will happen, still want the Knicks to play with that goal in mind. Not flushing the season for a draft pick.

not rooting for losses but I high draft pick is more valuable than a few extra wins. Without KP we dont stand much of a chance anyway. The most important thing is the kids developing and going through their ups and downs

Last night we played a very good team on the road and it was tied with under 4 minutes left. We don't have closers. We lost. It was the kind of game you want a young team to play. If your going to lose this is ok by me. This is growth.
Would have been good to see Mitchel guard the freak. Be a good lesson.

Nalod wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

93BUICK wrote:Past few years Knicks had a decent record 1st 20 games in and then fell apart. We'd all sign for the opposite.
Everyone's hustling - and individually shining in spots- Fiz has helped allow that- but it's not pre-season and I don't want a chill and tank year. I would prefer to miss the playoffs by one game with the rooks being awesome than lose for a ping pong. Really get the team set to have a playing style and cohesive O and D taking advantage of talents.

Absolutely. We need a high pick AND going into the offseason we need to give the impression we're on an upward swing to make us more attractive to free agents, therefore I'd much rather we lose big now, and hopefully improve and start to win a few more later on in the season.

Dont want to hear the T word, barely a week into the season. lol.

You guys are discounting the importance of playoff experience for the younger players. Cant contend down the road without it.

Losing lots of games under the new lotto rules doesnt pay off like it used to.

Id rather make the playoffs, and worry about the draft later. Youngest team in the league already, lots of talent there. We need more quality vets, making the playoffs after a long drought would get some of their attention in free agency.

Doubt playoffs will happen, still want the Knicks to play with that goal in mind. Not flushing the season for a draft pick.

not rooting for losses but I high draft pick is more valuable than a few extra wins. Without KP we dont stand much of a chance anyway. The most important thing is the kids developing and going through their ups and downs

Last night we played a very good team on the road and it was tied with under 4 minutes left. We don't have closers. We lost. It was the kind of game you want a young team to play. If your going to lose this is ok by me. This is growth.
Would have been good to see Mitchel guard the freak. Be a good lesson.

I agree. Thats all I care about. Growth from the kids and fight. If we somehow made the playoffs I would be thrilled but I would also be thrilled with adding another good young talent

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:Dot brings scoring AND defense. If this trend continues, getting Either Dot or Mario in the starting lineup as the SF will be necessary. That along with using Frank more as a 1.

This. He also is an excellent rebounder for a wing. He is a nice fit to play with KP eventually in part because KP is not a great rebounder.

exactly. you get dot or trier in the starting lineup instead of burke and you will see starters perform better and bench production will not go down.