Knicks · Woj: Melo & Rockets discussing role and future (11/15 update: Melo out) (page 6)

SupremeCommander wrote:

Marv wrote:Couple of thoughts on carmelo.

Yes, all the negatives people bring up about his game and his demeanor on the court are valid, particularly over the last several years.

What's ignored or brushed aside by many was his frequent brilliance on the court as a knick over the years. A few highlights that stand out for me:

His first years here, carrying a decimated team to the playoffs (dolan's fault imo). Up against the #1 seed boston, dropping 42-16-7 in a game down to the wire. U know who were the other starters in that game - toney douglas, ronny turiaf, amare (4 points in 18 minutes, he had already destroyed his back in the pre-game dunkline), and landry fields. The bench - jared jeffries, shawne williams, roger mason, anthony carter and bill walker (33 minutes, 2 points on 0-11 shooting).
Carmelo averaged 26-10-5 for that series.

Also the entire 2012-13 season. (yes the great woodson/iso-melo/old man bench/kidd-the-savior season). Carmelo was 3rd in mvp voting that season, behind only lebron anad durant. Only player to earn a #1 vote besides lebron. So easy to write off his play and impact on the team that year but in my view he was amazing.

Now true it really is time for him to go. tmac is right. Preserve your celebrity, your bearing. Take it forward and pursue your business interests, your involvement in social issues. You're old for basketball but not for life.

Best to melo.

I'm with you - great player but had flaws. That's why we could get him to begin with.

Great detail posted here. I tend to look at it more macro level. Melo was the best player we've had since Ewing. He is a HOFer and likely a first ballot one. He's the most decorated Olympian there is and some of that came while he was on the Knicks.

That's how i look at it too. He was our best player since Ewing. He led this team to its highest level of success since the Ewing era. I can tell those in this thread who are still committed to an agenda against him. He was a flawed star. I'm always amazed with those who are fans of a team that has had the least success of any team in the league in the past 15 years and complain about the only player who led us to any sort of success.

A tale of two Melo's.
First contract and Second contract. Younger melo on veteran team vs. leader of youth.
There must have been conditions to him joining the Rockets and they have not been met. Perhaps he really tries to be what others want but he can't.
Three fingers banging his sweatband and smiling. How I'll remember our Golden Mooby.

Fans put him on a pedestal to be worshiped. Buy the jersey and root hard. "Coming Home". MSG paid big for him and wanted a star. That's what they got. Amare fell apart and JR's brain stayed a mess. "Thy cupboard barren" after the trade. Its an old tale.

Knixkik wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Marv wrote:Couple of thoughts on carmelo.

Yes, all the negatives people bring up about his game and his demeanor on the court are valid, particularly over the last several years.

What's ignored or brushed aside by many was his frequent brilliance on the court as a knick over the years. A few highlights that stand out for me:

His first years here, carrying a decimated team to the playoffs (dolan's fault imo). Up against the #1 seed boston, dropping 42-16-7 in a game down to the wire. U know who were the other starters in that game - toney douglas, ronny turiaf, amare (4 points in 18 minutes, he had already destroyed his back in the pre-game dunkline), and landry fields. The bench - jared jeffries, shawne williams, roger mason, anthony carter and bill walker (33 minutes, 2 points on 0-11 shooting).
Carmelo averaged 26-10-5 for that series.

Also the entire 2012-13 season. (yes the great woodson/iso-melo/old man bench/kidd-the-savior season). Carmelo was 3rd in mvp voting that season, behind only lebron anad durant. Only player to earn a #1 vote besides lebron. So easy to write off his play and impact on the team that year but in my view he was amazing.

Now true it really is time for him to go. tmac is right. Preserve your celebrity, your bearing. Take it forward and pursue your business interests, your involvement in social issues. You're old for basketball but not for life.

Best to melo.

I'm with you - great player but had flaws. That's why we could get him to begin with.

Great detail posted here. I tend to look at it more macro level. Melo was the best player we've had since Ewing. He is a HOFer and likely a first ballot one. He's the most decorated Olympian there is and some of that came while he was on the Knicks.

That's how i look at it too. He was our best player since Ewing. He led this team to its highest level of success since the Ewing era. I can tell those in this thread who are still committed to an agenda against him. He was a flawed star. I'm always amazed with those who are fans of a team that has had the least success of any team in the league in the past 15 years and complain about the only player who led us to any sort of success.

Agreed, although I don't know how anyone would make a case for any other player at this point, and even Ewing was flawed.
This team's pre-Melo and post-Melo metrics speak for themselves, but exceedingly simple metrics apparently are even too much for the exceedingly simple. You've got fans of the team, and then you've got fans who are fans of their own opinions, first and foremost.

I was about to disagree with you and say at least we're not SacTown, but they weren't all that bad 15 years ago...

SupremeCommander wrote:

Marv wrote:Couple of thoughts on carmelo.

Yes, all the negatives people bring up about his game and his demeanor on the court are valid, particularly over the last several years.

What's ignored or brushed aside by many was his frequent brilliance on the court as a knick over the years. A few highlights that stand out for me:

His first years here, carrying a decimated team to the playoffs (dolan's fault imo). Up against the #1 seed boston, dropping 42-16-7 in a game down to the wire. U know who were the other starters in that game - toney douglas, ronny turiaf, amare (4 points in 18 minutes, he had already destroyed his back in the pre-game dunkline), and landry fields. The bench - jared jeffries, shawne williams, roger mason, anthony carter and bill walker (33 minutes, 2 points on 0-11 shooting).
Carmelo averaged 26-10-5 for that series.

Also the entire 2012-13 season. (yes the great woodson/iso-melo/old man bench/kidd-the-savior season). Carmelo was 3rd in mvp voting that season, behind only lebron anad durant. Only player to earn a #1 vote besides lebron. So easy to write off his play and impact on the team that year but in my view he was amazing.

Now true it really is time for him to go. tmac is right. Preserve your celebrity, your bearing. Take it forward and pursue your business interests, your involvement in social issues. You're old for basketball but not for life.

Best to melo.

I'm with you - great player but had flaws. That's why we could get him to begin with.

Great detail posted here. I tend to look at it more macro level. Melo was the best player we've had since Ewing. He is a HOFer and likely a first ballot one. He's the most decorated Olympian there is and some of that came while he was on the Knicks.

So one out of six years he did what he was being paid to do? He was making more money than anyone in the league and he delivered for on whole playoff series. That it? This is what you get from the highest paid player in the league? Are you familiar with the concept of opportunity cost?

Marv wrote:Couple of thoughts on carmelo.

Yes, all the negatives people bring up about his game and his demeanor on the court are valid, particularly over the last several years.

What's ignored or brushed aside by many was his frequent brilliance on the court as a knick over the years. A few highlights that stand out for me:

His first years here, carrying a decimated team to the playoffs (dolan's fault imo). Up against the #1 seed boston, dropping 42-16-7 in a game down to the wire. U know who were the other starters in that game - toney douglas, ronny turiaf, amare (4 points in 18 minutes, he had already destroyed his back in the pre-game dunkline), and landry fields. The bench - jared jeffries, shawne williams, roger mason, anthony carter and bill walker (33 minutes, 2 points on 0-11 shooting).
Carmelo averaged 26-10-5 for that series.

Also the entire 2012-13 season. (yes the great woodson/iso-melo/old man bench/kidd-the-savior season). Carmelo was 3rd in mvp voting that season, behind only lebron anad durant. Only player to earn a #1 vote besides lebron. So easy to write off his play and impact on the team that year but in my view he was amazing.

Now true it really is time for him to go. tmac is right. Preserve your celebrity, your bearing. Take it forward and pursue your business interests, your involvement in social issues. You're old for basketball but not for life.

Best to melo.

Great post. Heard on nba radio that Melo did not expect this and thought things were good with the rockets. Makes me wonder if this was phase 2 of D'Antoni's revenge. D'Antoni's handling of Marbs, waiting until he won coy to go after Melo in the press about his exit from ny makes me wonder if he is that vindictive. He waited 5 years, after coaching the Knicks, Lakers and assisting on the Sixers, to call Melo out for why he left NY. One year later he coaches the team that signs Melo and says Melo can't stay on the team. Not saying that teams didn't isolate and exploit Melo when he was on defense but the guy was on a league mini deal and scoring like a guy that should make a bit more than that. Maybe Melo couldn't compromise on the role he expected to have. Has D'Antoni ever valued defense over scoring? I think some of this is Mike. JVG talked about how hard it is for a superstar to come to terms with being a compromised player and retiring. He wanted to be the coach for Ewing when he retired. D'Antoni isn't that guy for Melo. There maybe more to the story. Other teams aren't offering to trade or sign Melo if he goes to waivers. Melo' value is low. But there is a history there and it needs to be considered.

CrushAlot wrote:

Marv wrote:Couple of thoughts on carmelo.

Yes, all the negatives people bring up about his game and his demeanor on the court are valid, particularly over the last several years.

What's ignored or brushed aside by many was his frequent brilliance on the court as a knick over the years. A few highlights that stand out for me:

His first years here, carrying a decimated team to the playoffs (dolan's fault imo). Up against the #1 seed boston, dropping 42-16-7 in a game down to the wire. U know who were the other starters in that game - toney douglas, ronny turiaf, amare (4 points in 18 minutes, he had already destroyed his back in the pre-game dunkline), and landry fields. The bench - jared jeffries, shawne williams, roger mason, anthony carter and bill walker (33 minutes, 2 points on 0-11 shooting).
Carmelo averaged 26-10-5 for that series.

Also the entire 2012-13 season. (yes the great woodson/iso-melo/old man bench/kidd-the-savior season). Carmelo was 3rd in mvp voting that season, behind only lebron anad durant. Only player to earn a #1 vote besides lebron. So easy to write off his play and impact on the team that year but in my view he was amazing.

Now true it really is time for him to go. tmac is right. Preserve your celebrity, your bearing. Take it forward and pursue your business interests, your involvement in social issues. You're old for basketball but not for life.

Best to melo.

Great post. Heard on nba radio that Melo did not expect this and thought things were good with the rockets. Makes me wonder if this was phase 2 of D'Antoni's revenge. D'Antoni's handling of Marbs, waiting until he won coy to go after Melo in the press about his exit from ny makes me wonder if he is that vindictive. He waited 5 years, after coaching the Knicks, Lakers and assisting on the Sixers, to call Melo out for why he left NY. One year later he coaches the team that signs Melo and says Melo can't stay on the team. Not saying that teams didn't isolate and exploit Melo when he was on defense but the guy was on a league mini deal and scoring like a guy that should make a bit more than that. Maybe Melo couldn't compromise on the role he expected to have. Has D'Antoni ever valued defense over scoring? I think some of this is Mike. JVG talked about how hard it is for a superstar to come to terms with being a compromised player and retiring. He wanted to be the coach for Ewing when he retired. D'Antoni isn't that guy for Melo. There maybe more to the story. Other teams aren't offering to trade or sign Melo if he goes to waivers. Melo' value is low. But there is a history there and it needs to be considered.

Melo has been a coach killing A-Hole his whole career I hope someone stabbed him for once.

CrushAlot wrote:

Marv wrote:Couple of thoughts on carmelo.

Yes, all the negatives people bring up about his game and his demeanor on the court are valid, particularly over the last several years.

What's ignored or brushed aside by many was his frequent brilliance on the court as a knick over the years. A few highlights that stand out for me:

His first years here, carrying a decimated team to the playoffs (dolan's fault imo). Up against the #1 seed boston, dropping 42-16-7 in a game down to the wire. U know who were the other starters in that game - toney douglas, ronny turiaf, amare (4 points in 18 minutes, he had already destroyed his back in the pre-game dunkline), and landry fields. The bench - jared jeffries, shawne williams, roger mason, anthony carter and bill walker (33 minutes, 2 points on 0-11 shooting).
Carmelo averaged 26-10-5 for that series.

Also the entire 2012-13 season. (yes the great woodson/iso-melo/old man bench/kidd-the-savior season). Carmelo was 3rd in mvp voting that season, behind only lebron anad durant. Only player to earn a #1 vote besides lebron. So easy to write off his play and impact on the team that year but in my view he was amazing.

Now true it really is time for him to go. tmac is right. Preserve your celebrity, your bearing. Take it forward and pursue your business interests, your involvement in social issues. You're old for basketball but not for life.

Best to melo.

Great post. Heard on nba radio that Melo did not expect this and thought things were good with the rockets. Makes me wonder if this was phase 2 of D'Antoni's revenge. D'Antoni's handling of Marbs, waiting until he won coy to go after Melo in the press about his exit from ny makes me wonder if he is that vindictive. He waited 5 years, after coaching the Knicks, Lakers and assisting on the Sixers, to call Melo out for why he left NY. One year later he coaches the team that signs Melo and says Melo can't stay on the team. Not saying that teams didn't isolate and exploit Melo when he was on defense but the guy was on a league mini deal and scoring like a guy that should make a bit more than that. Maybe Melo couldn't compromise on the role he expected to have. Has D'Antoni ever valued defense over scoring? I think some of this is Mike. JVG talked about how hard it is for a superstar to come to terms with being a compromised player and retiring. He wanted to be the coach for Ewing when he retired. D'Antoni isn't that guy for Melo. There maybe more to the story. Other teams aren't offering to trade or sign Melo if he goes to waivers. Melo' value is low. But there is a history there and it needs to be considered.

Conspiracy Theories now?

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Marv wrote:Couple of thoughts on carmelo.

Yes, all the negatives people bring up about his game and his demeanor on the court are valid, particularly over the last several years.

What's ignored or brushed aside by many was his frequent brilliance on the court as a knick over the years. A few highlights that stand out for me:

His first years here, carrying a decimated team to the playoffs (dolan's fault imo). Up against the #1 seed boston, dropping 42-16-7 in a game down to the wire. U know who were the other starters in that game - toney douglas, ronny turiaf, amare (4 points in 18 minutes, he had already destroyed his back in the pre-game dunkline), and landry fields. The bench - jared jeffries, shawne williams, roger mason, anthony carter and bill walker (33 minutes, 2 points on 0-11 shooting).
Carmelo averaged 26-10-5 for that series.

Also the entire 2012-13 season. (yes the great woodson/iso-melo/old man bench/kidd-the-savior season). Carmelo was 3rd in mvp voting that season, behind only lebron anad durant. Only player to earn a #1 vote besides lebron. So easy to write off his play and impact on the team that year but in my view he was amazing.

Now true it really is time for him to go. tmac is right. Preserve your celebrity, your bearing. Take it forward and pursue your business interests, your involvement in social issues. You're old for basketball but not for life.

Best to melo.

Great post. Heard on nba radio that Melo did not expect this and thought things were good with the rockets. Makes me wonder if this was phase 2 of D'Antoni's revenge. D'Antoni's handling of Marbs, waiting until he won coy to go after Melo in the press about his exit from ny makes me wonder if he is that vindictive. He waited 5 years, after coaching the Knicks, Lakers and assisting on the Sixers, to call Melo out for why he left NY. One year later he coaches the team that signs Melo and says Melo can't stay on the team. Not saying that teams didn't isolate and exploit Melo when he was on defense but the guy was on a league mini deal and scoring like a guy that should make a bit more than that. Maybe Melo couldn't compromise on the role he expected to have. Has D'Antoni ever valued defense over scoring? I think some of this is Mike. JVG talked about how hard it is for a superstar to come to terms with being a compromised player and retiring. He wanted to be the coach for Ewing when he retired. D'Antoni isn't that guy for Melo. There maybe more to the story. Other teams aren't offering to trade or sign Melo if he goes to waivers. Melo' value is low. But there is a history there and it needs to be considered.

Conspiracy Theories now?

Exactly. Now every other Melo fan will jump on this and it will become "true". Remember the operating principle for these people is that it's never Melo's fault. And in 3, 2, 1..... Hofstra will find a way to blame this on Lin. Pathetic

meloshouldgo wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Marv wrote:Couple of thoughts on carmelo.

Yes, all the negatives people bring up about his game and his demeanor on the court are valid, particularly over the last several years.

What's ignored or brushed aside by many was his frequent brilliance on the court as a knick over the years. A few highlights that stand out for me:

His first years here, carrying a decimated team to the playoffs (dolan's fault imo). Up against the #1 seed boston, dropping 42-16-7 in a game down to the wire. U know who were the other starters in that game - toney douglas, ronny turiaf, amare (4 points in 18 minutes, he had already destroyed his back in the pre-game dunkline), and landry fields. The bench - jared jeffries, shawne williams, roger mason, anthony carter and bill walker (33 minutes, 2 points on 0-11 shooting).
Carmelo averaged 26-10-5 for that series.

Also the entire 2012-13 season. (yes the great woodson/iso-melo/old man bench/kidd-the-savior season). Carmelo was 3rd in mvp voting that season, behind only lebron anad durant. Only player to earn a #1 vote besides lebron. So easy to write off his play and impact on the team that year but in my view he was amazing.

Now true it really is time for him to go. tmac is right. Preserve your celebrity, your bearing. Take it forward and pursue your business interests, your involvement in social issues. You're old for basketball but not for life.

Best to melo.

Great post. Heard on nba radio that Melo did not expect this and thought things were good with the rockets. Makes me wonder if this was phase 2 of D'Antoni's revenge. D'Antoni's handling of Marbs, waiting until he won coy to go after Melo in the press about his exit from ny makes me wonder if he is that vindictive. He waited 5 years, after coaching the Knicks, Lakers and assisting on the Sixers, to call Melo out for why he left NY. One year later he coaches the team that signs Melo and says Melo can't stay on the team. Not saying that teams didn't isolate and exploit Melo when he was on defense but the guy was on a league mini deal and scoring like a guy that should make a bit more than that. Maybe Melo couldn't compromise on the role he expected to have. Has D'Antoni ever valued defense over scoring? I think some of this is Mike. JVG talked about how hard it is for a superstar to come to terms with being a compromised player and retiring. He wanted to be the coach for Ewing when he retired. D'Antoni isn't that guy for Melo. There maybe more to the story. Other teams aren't offering to trade or sign Melo if he goes to waivers. Melo' value is low. But there is a history there and it needs to be considered.

Conspiracy Theories now?

Exactly. Now every other Melo fan will jump on this and it will become "true". Remember the operating principle for these people is that it's never Melo's fault. And in 3, 2, 1..... Hofstra will find a way to blame this on Lin. Pathetic

Nah. Just something to consider. Dantoni had 3 coaching positions after leaving the Knicks but didn't go after Melo until he won coy 5 years later. It was right when Melo was having marital problems. It seemed weak and petty to me at the time.

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Marv wrote:Couple of thoughts on carmelo.

Yes, all the negatives people bring up about his game and his demeanor on the court are valid, particularly over the last several years.

What's ignored or brushed aside by many was his frequent brilliance on the court as a knick over the years. A few highlights that stand out for me:

His first years here, carrying a decimated team to the playoffs (dolan's fault imo). Up against the #1 seed boston, dropping 42-16-7 in a game down to the wire. U know who were the other starters in that game - toney douglas, ronny turiaf, amare (4 points in 18 minutes, he had already destroyed his back in the pre-game dunkline), and landry fields. The bench - jared jeffries, shawne williams, roger mason, anthony carter and bill walker (33 minutes, 2 points on 0-11 shooting).
Carmelo averaged 26-10-5 for that series.

Also the entire 2012-13 season. (yes the great woodson/iso-melo/old man bench/kidd-the-savior season). Carmelo was 3rd in mvp voting that season, behind only lebron anad durant. Only player to earn a #1 vote besides lebron. So easy to write off his play and impact on the team that year but in my view he was amazing.

Now true it really is time for him to go. tmac is right. Preserve your celebrity, your bearing. Take it forward and pursue your business interests, your involvement in social issues. You're old for basketball but not for life.

Best to melo.

Great post. Heard on nba radio that Melo did not expect this and thought things were good with the rockets. Makes me wonder if this was phase 2 of D'Antoni's revenge. D'Antoni's handling of Marbs, waiting until he won coy to go after Melo in the press about his exit from ny makes me wonder if he is that vindictive. He waited 5 years, after coaching the Knicks, Lakers and assisting on the Sixers, to call Melo out for why he left NY. One year later he coaches the team that signs Melo and says Melo can't stay on the team. Not saying that teams didn't isolate and exploit Melo when he was on defense but the guy was on a league mini deal and scoring like a guy that should make a bit more than that. Maybe Melo couldn't compromise on the role he expected to have. Has D'Antoni ever valued defense over scoring? I think some of this is Mike. JVG talked about how hard it is for a superstar to come to terms with being a compromised player and retiring. He wanted to be the coach for Ewing when he retired. D'Antoni isn't that guy for Melo. There maybe more to the story. Other teams aren't offering to trade or sign Melo if he goes to waivers. Melo' value is low. But there is a history there and it needs to be considered.

Conspiracy Theories now?

Exactly. Now every other Melo fan will jump on this and it will become "true". Remember the operating principle for these people is that it's never Melo's fault. And in 3, 2, 1..... Hofstra will find a way to blame this on Lin. Pathetic

Nah. Just something to consider. Dantoni had 3 coaching positions after leaving the Knicks but didn't go after Melo until he won coy 5 years later. It was right when Melo was having marital problems. It seemed weak and petty to me at the time.

Almost as weak and petty as this conspiracy theory you're drudging up based on nothing.

JamesKPolk wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Marv wrote:Couple of thoughts on carmelo.

Yes, all the negatives people bring up about his game and his demeanor on the court are valid, particularly over the last several years.

What's ignored or brushed aside by many was his frequent brilliance on the court as a knick over the years. A few highlights that stand out for me:

His first years here, carrying a decimated team to the playoffs (dolan's fault imo). Up against the #1 seed boston, dropping 42-16-7 in a game down to the wire. U know who were the other starters in that game - toney douglas, ronny turiaf, amare (4 points in 18 minutes, he had already destroyed his back in the pre-game dunkline), and landry fields. The bench - jared jeffries, shawne williams, roger mason, anthony carter and bill walker (33 minutes, 2 points on 0-11 shooting).
Carmelo averaged 26-10-5 for that series.

Also the entire 2012-13 season. (yes the great woodson/iso-melo/old man bench/kidd-the-savior season). Carmelo was 3rd in mvp voting that season, behind only lebron anad durant. Only player to earn a #1 vote besides lebron. So easy to write off his play and impact on the team that year but in my view he was amazing.

Now true it really is time for him to go. tmac is right. Preserve your celebrity, your bearing. Take it forward and pursue your business interests, your involvement in social issues. You're old for basketball but not for life.

Best to melo.

Great post. Heard on nba radio that Melo did not expect this and thought things were good with the rockets. Makes me wonder if this was phase 2 of D'Antoni's revenge. D'Antoni's handling of Marbs, waiting until he won coy to go after Melo in the press about his exit from ny makes me wonder if he is that vindictive. He waited 5 years, after coaching the Knicks, Lakers and assisting on the Sixers, to call Melo out for why he left NY. One year later he coaches the team that signs Melo and says Melo can't stay on the team. Not saying that teams didn't isolate and exploit Melo when he was on defense but the guy was on a league mini deal and scoring like a guy that should make a bit more than that. Maybe Melo couldn't compromise on the role he expected to have. Has D'Antoni ever valued defense over scoring? I think some of this is Mike. JVG talked about how hard it is for a superstar to come to terms with being a compromised player and retiring. He wanted to be the coach for Ewing when he retired. D'Antoni isn't that guy for Melo. There maybe more to the story. Other teams aren't offering to trade or sign Melo if he goes to waivers. Melo' value is low. But there is a history there and it needs to be considered.

Conspiracy Theories now?

Exactly. Now every other Melo fan will jump on this and it will become "true". Remember the operating principle for these people is that it's never Melo's fault. And in 3, 2, 1..... Hofstra will find a way to blame this on Lin. Pathetic

Nah. Just something to consider. Dantoni had 3 coaching positions after leaving the Knicks but didn't go after Melo until he won coy 5 years later. It was right when Melo was having marital problems. It seemed weak and petty to me at the time.

Almost as weak and petty as this conspiracy theory you're drudging up based on nothing.

I had heard it was a mutual decision initially. When I heard Melo did not know it was going to happen I gave the situation another look. Saw somethings on twitter as well. It isn't hard to make the case that Melo is done as a starter, won't consider changing his role etc. but there is a past there with a guy that waited 5 years and three coaching positions to go after Melo for his time in ny.

Even if that is true, then that would make Melo an idiot for going there, especially since he's being trying to get there for two years.

CrushAlot wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Marv wrote:Couple of thoughts on carmelo.

Yes, all the negatives people bring up about his game and his demeanor on the court are valid, particularly over the last several years.

What's ignored or brushed aside by many was his frequent brilliance on the court as a knick over the years. A few highlights that stand out for me:

His first years here, carrying a decimated team to the playoffs (dolan's fault imo). Up against the #1 seed boston, dropping 42-16-7 in a game down to the wire. U know who were the other starters in that game - toney douglas, ronny turiaf, amare (4 points in 18 minutes, he had already destroyed his back in the pre-game dunkline), and landry fields. The bench - jared jeffries, shawne williams, roger mason, anthony carter and bill walker (33 minutes, 2 points on 0-11 shooting).
Carmelo averaged 26-10-5 for that series.

Also the entire 2012-13 season. (yes the great woodson/iso-melo/old man bench/kidd-the-savior season). Carmelo was 3rd in mvp voting that season, behind only lebron anad durant. Only player to earn a #1 vote besides lebron. So easy to write off his play and impact on the team that year but in my view he was amazing.

Now true it really is time for him to go. tmac is right. Preserve your celebrity, your bearing. Take it forward and pursue your business interests, your involvement in social issues. You're old for basketball but not for life.

Best to melo.

Great post. Heard on nba radio that Melo did not expect this and thought things were good with the rockets. Makes me wonder if this was phase 2 of D'Antoni's revenge. D'Antoni's handling of Marbs, waiting until he won coy to go after Melo in the press about his exit from ny makes me wonder if he is that vindictive. He waited 5 years, after coaching the Knicks, Lakers and assisting on the Sixers, to call Melo out for why he left NY. One year later he coaches the team that signs Melo and says Melo can't stay on the team. Not saying that teams didn't isolate and exploit Melo when he was on defense but the guy was on a league mini deal and scoring like a guy that should make a bit more than that. Maybe Melo couldn't compromise on the role he expected to have. Has D'Antoni ever valued defense over scoring? I think some of this is Mike. JVG talked about how hard it is for a superstar to come to terms with being a compromised player and retiring. He wanted to be the coach for Ewing when he retired. D'Antoni isn't that guy for Melo. There maybe more to the story. Other teams aren't offering to trade or sign Melo if he goes to waivers. Melo' value is low. But there is a history there and it needs to be considered.

Conspiracy Theories now?

Exactly. Now every other Melo fan will jump on this and it will become "true". Remember the operating principle for these people is that it's never Melo's fault. And in 3, 2, 1..... Hofstra will find a way to blame this on Lin. Pathetic

Nah. Just something to consider. Dantoni had 3 coaching positions after leaving the Knicks but didn't go after Melo until he won coy 5 years later. It was right when Melo was having marital problems. It seemed weak and petty to me at the time.

Almost as weak and petty as this conspiracy theory you're drudging up based on nothing.

I had heard it was a mutual decision initially. When I heard Melo did not know it was going to happen I gave the situation another look. Saw somethings on twitter as well. It isn't hard to make the case that Melo is done as a starter, won't consider changing his role etc. but there is a past there with a guy that waited 5 years and three coaching positions to go after Melo for his time in ny.

Or, you know, Melo just isn't good anymore. And there is an argument to be made if he was ever a winning player. A strong one.

Nobody "went after" anyone. Melo simply doesn't have the skills to be a regular rotation player in the league anymore.

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nah. Just something to consider. Dantoni had 3 coaching positions after leaving the Knicks but didn't go after Melo until he won coy 5 years later. It was right when Melo was having marital problems. It seemed weak and petty to me at the time.

New-ish owner Fertitta made the decision to sign Melo.

Both Morey and Pringles opposed it. Morey had some bad experiences with the Morris Twins early on and vowed to never get into that kind of personnel situation ever again. Chris Paul has Fertitta's ear, which explains some of the baffling decisions made this offseason.

Pringles had to deal with piece of shit personalities in Kobe and Harden, not just Melo. Nearly everyone in the league hates Harden as a person. Pringles doesn't give a shit, he's trying to win.

Former owner Alexander left Morey alone. He only had one mandate, don't tank, put a competitive team out there every year. Fertitta operates differently.

Everyone in the league knew Melo wasn't going to work out in Houston. Except Fertitta and Melo and Chris Paul. Which is why most teams were cool with not chasing Melo themselves.

Nearly all people involved in professional sports have marital problems. You are married to your job, your wife is only a "mistress" in your life. This is common in military families as well. People in law enforcement. People in medicine. Nearly all people in real life outside of professional sports have marital problems of some kind. If you want to try to give people a pass for going through a divorce, you'd never make another transaction in the entire NBA.

There is no grand conspiracy against Carmelo Anthony. If you act like you don't truly give a shit on the court, no one would want you on their team, past history or not. He got cut because he truly stopped giving a shit. That's on him.

Pringles is one of the most respected and beloved figures in all of basketball, IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. OK some guys didn't like him or don't truly vibe with him. James Harden? Piece of shit. Kobe Bryant? Narcissist/Rapist. Melo? Coach killing ego maniac.

If assholes don't get along with you, I don't see that as a negative.

I rarely see anyone brush aside Melo's actual talent. He was an elite 1 vs 1 scorer who was offensively complete. He was a good rebounder and had very good skill set around the rim and in the low post. He just played like an asshole ( zero effort on D, lazy, poor conditioning, didn't keep the ball moving, shitty shot selection)

But yes, yes,when it comes to Melo, it's everyone elses fault. Clearly if you can't hold him accountable for everything, then you can't blame him for anything at all.

Melo plays like a total asshole. No one needs to get revenge on him. Melo inflicts upon himself before anyone could ever start.

This. Rockets have a history of signing over rated players. Just look at what a joke it was to sign Jeremy Lin.

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nah. Just something to consider. Dantoni had 3 coaching positions after leaving the Knicks but didn't go after Melo until he won coy 5 years later. It was right when Melo was having marital problems. It seemed weak and petty to me at the time.

New-ish owner Fertitta made the decision to sign Melo.

Both Morey and Pringles opposed it. Morey had some bad experiences with the Morris Twins early on and vowed to never get into that kind of personnel situation ever again. Chris Paul has Fertitta's ear, which explains some of the baffling decisions made this offseason.

Pringles had to deal with piece of shit personalities in Kobe and Harden, not just Melo. Nearly everyone in the league hates Harden as a person. Pringles doesn't give a shit, he's trying to win.

Former owner Alexander left Morey alone. He only had one mandate, don't tank, put a competitive team out there every year. Fertitta operates differently.

Everyone in the league knew Melo wasn't going to work out in Houston. Except Fertitta and Melo and Chris Paul. Which is why most teams were cool with not chasing Melo themselves.

Nearly all people involved in professional sports have marital problems. You are married to your job, your wife is only a "mistress" in your life. This is common in military families as well. People in law enforcement. People in medicine. Nearly all people in real life outside of professional sports have marital problems of some kind. If you want to try to give people a pass for going through a divorce, you'd never make another transaction in the entire NBA.

There is no grand conspiracy against Carmelo Anthony. If you act like you don't truly give a shit on the court, no one would want you on their team, past history or not. He got cut because he truly stopped giving a shit. That's on him.

Pringles is one of the most respected and beloved figures in all of basketball, IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. OK some guys didn't like him or don't truly vibe with him. James Harden? Piece of shit. Kobe Bryant? Narcissist/Rapist. Melo? Coach killing ego maniac.

If assholes don't get along with you, I don't see that as a negative.

I rarely see anyone brush aside Melo's actual talent. He was an elite 1 vs 1 scorer who was offensively complete. He was a good rebounder and had very good skill set around the rim and in the low post. He just played like an asshole ( zero effort on D, lazy, poor conditioning, didn't keep the ball moving, shitty shot selection)

But yes, yes,when it comes to Melo, it's everyone elses fault. Clearly if you can't hold him accountable for everything, then you can't blame him for anything at all.

Melo plays like a total asshole. No one needs to get revenge on him. Melo inflicts upon himself before anyone could ever start.

Wrong. Pringles is a stubborn narcissist. Funny you miss that.

When his conditions are ideal he’s a decent regular season coach. Always chokes in the playoffs. Or did you happen to be sleeping during the final 2 games against gs when he insisted on flaming out with his crack 3-point shooting game.

Marv wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nah. Just something to consider. Dantoni had 3 coaching positions after leaving the Knicks but didn't go after Melo until he won coy 5 years later. It was right when Melo was having marital problems. It seemed weak and petty to me at the time.

New-ish owner Fertitta made the decision to sign Melo.

Both Morey and Pringles opposed it. Morey had some bad experiences with the Morris Twins early on and vowed to never get into that kind of personnel situation ever again. Chris Paul has Fertitta's ear, which explains some of the baffling decisions made this offseason.

Pringles had to deal with piece of shit personalities in Kobe and Harden, not just Melo. Nearly everyone in the league hates Harden as a person. Pringles doesn't give a shit, he's trying to win.

Former owner Alexander left Morey alone. He only had one mandate, don't tank, put a competitive team out there every year. Fertitta operates differently.

Everyone in the league knew Melo wasn't going to work out in Houston. Except Fertitta and Melo and Chris Paul. Which is why most teams were cool with not chasing Melo themselves.

Nearly all people involved in professional sports have marital problems. You are married to your job, your wife is only a "mistress" in your life. This is common in military families as well. People in law enforcement. People in medicine. Nearly all people in real life outside of professional sports have marital problems of some kind. If you want to try to give people a pass for going through a divorce, you'd never make another transaction in the entire NBA.

There is no grand conspiracy against Carmelo Anthony. If you act like you don't truly give a shit on the court, no one would want you on their team, past history or not. He got cut because he truly stopped giving a shit. That's on him.

Pringles is one of the most respected and beloved figures in all of basketball, IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. OK some guys didn't like him or don't truly vibe with him. James Harden? Piece of shit. Kobe Bryant? Narcissist/Rapist. Melo? Coach killing ego maniac.

If assholes don't get along with you, I don't see that as a negative.

I rarely see anyone brush aside Melo's actual talent. He was an elite 1 vs 1 scorer who was offensively complete. He was a good rebounder and had very good skill set around the rim and in the low post. He just played like an asshole ( zero effort on D, lazy, poor conditioning, didn't keep the ball moving, shitty shot selection)

But yes, yes,when it comes to Melo, it's everyone elses fault. Clearly if you can't hold him accountable for everything, then you can't blame him for anything at all.

Melo plays like a total asshole. No one needs to get revenge on him. Melo inflicts upon himself before anyone could ever start.

Wrong. Pringles is a stubborn narcissist. Funny you miss that.

When his conditions are ideal he’s a decent regular season coach. Always chokes in the playoffs. Or did you happen to be sleeping during the final 2 games against gs when he insisted on flaming out with his crack 3-point shooting game.

Pringles being incomplete coach does not make Melo complete player.
Being good or even grate in one specific thing around the game does not account for being great overal.
Being good with any aspect of the game and great with some makes a supper-star player or coach.
Pringles and Melo both suck at defensive part of the game and both have personality issues affecting their performance.
They are both world class but not the top of the crop.

Marv wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nah. Just something to consider. Dantoni had 3 coaching positions after leaving the Knicks but didn't go after Melo until he won coy 5 years later. It was right when Melo was having marital problems. It seemed weak and petty to me at the time.

New-ish owner Fertitta made the decision to sign Melo.

Both Morey and Pringles opposed it. Morey had some bad experiences with the Morris Twins early on and vowed to never get into that kind of personnel situation ever again. Chris Paul has Fertitta's ear, which explains some of the baffling decisions made this offseason.

Pringles had to deal with piece of shit personalities in Kobe and Harden, not just Melo. Nearly everyone in the league hates Harden as a person. Pringles doesn't give a shit, he's trying to win.

Former owner Alexander left Morey alone. He only had one mandate, don't tank, put a competitive team out there every year. Fertitta operates differently.

Everyone in the league knew Melo wasn't going to work out in Houston. Except Fertitta and Melo and Chris Paul. Which is why most teams were cool with not chasing Melo themselves.

Nearly all people involved in professional sports have marital problems. You are married to your job, your wife is only a "mistress" in your life. This is common in military families as well. People in law enforcement. People in medicine. Nearly all people in real life outside of professional sports have marital problems of some kind. If you want to try to give people a pass for going through a divorce, you'd never make another transaction in the entire NBA.

There is no grand conspiracy against Carmelo Anthony. If you act like you don't truly give a shit on the court, no one would want you on their team, past history or not. He got cut because he truly stopped giving a shit. That's on him.

Pringles is one of the most respected and beloved figures in all of basketball, IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. OK some guys didn't like him or don't truly vibe with him. James Harden? Piece of shit. Kobe Bryant? Narcissist/Rapist. Melo? Coach killing ego maniac.

If assholes don't get along with you, I don't see that as a negative.

I rarely see anyone brush aside Melo's actual talent. He was an elite 1 vs 1 scorer who was offensively complete. He was a good rebounder and had very good skill set around the rim and in the low post. He just played like an asshole ( zero effort on D, lazy, poor conditioning, didn't keep the ball moving, shitty shot selection)

But yes, yes,when it comes to Melo, it's everyone elses fault. Clearly if you can't hold him accountable for everything, then you can't blame him for anything at all.

Melo plays like a total asshole. No one needs to get revenge on him. Melo inflicts upon himself before anyone could ever start.

Wrong. Pringles is a stubborn narcissist. Funny you miss that.

When his conditions are ideal he’s a decent regular season coach. Always chokes in the playoffs. Or did you happen to be sleeping during the final 2 games against gs when he insisted on flaming out with his crack 3-point shooting game.

Mike D'Antoni is the best coach this franchise had since Van Gundy.

Walsh saw where the league was headed when he made this hire. We were just way behind the curve, as usual.

TripleThreat wrote:
Pringles is supposed to be ashamed to lose to the Warriors? This Warriors team would steam roll many historic level teams.

He had both those games in hand with the personnel he had. Then blew both by letting his team take non-stop idiotic missed 3’s with a lead in the 4th. Like he was on a personal mission to exonerate riley for giving starks the non-stop green light. U want to support that?

Marv wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:
Pringles is supposed to be ashamed to lose to the Warriors? This Warriors team would steam roll many historic level teams.

He had both those games in hand with the personnel he had. Then blew both by letting his team take non-stop idiotic missed 3’s with a lead in the 4th. Like he was on a personal mission to exonerate riley for giving starks the non-stop green light. U want to support that?

I guess you can expect a coach to adjust a bit for who is hot and who is not but do you just flat go away from the playing style that got you this far? Is that what you are saying a coach should expect to do? Go away from your team's strengths?

martin wrote:

Marv wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:
Pringles is supposed to be ashamed to lose to the Warriors? This Warriors team would steam roll many historic level teams.

He had both those games in hand with the personnel he had. Then blew both by letting his team take non-stop idiotic missed 3’s with a lead in the 4th. Like he was on a personal mission to exonerate riley for giving starks the non-stop green light. U want to support that?

I guess you can expect a coach to adjust a bit for who is hot and who is not but do you just flat go away from the playing style that got you this far? Is that what you are saying a coach should expect to do? Go away from your team's strengths?

That's my main issue with Pringles. He never seems to adjust. I understand that every coach has a system. But it's the ability to adjust in game and over the course of the season that separates the good from the great. George Karl, as much as I dislike him, adjusted his system to incorporate a number of different styles. Riley? The same. Larry Brown had success with the Spurs and Pistons, which were two vastly different rosters. Phil Jackson, for all this talk of triangle style PGs, was able to adjust his style to incorporate guys like BJ Armstrong and John Paxson to guys like Brian Shaw and Ron Harper. Heck,Harper wasn't even a point guard, but Phil found a way to incorporate him.
Guys like, Don Nelson and Rick Pitino are talented b'ball minds, but they never showed that flexibility.

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

Marv wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:
Pringles is supposed to be ashamed to lose to the Warriors? This Warriors team would steam roll many historic level teams.

He had both those games in hand with the personnel he had. Then blew both by letting his team take non-stop idiotic missed 3’s with a lead in the 4th. Like he was on a personal mission to exonerate riley for giving starks the non-stop green light. U want to support that?

I guess you can expect a coach to adjust a bit for who is hot and who is not but do you just flat go away from the playing style that got you this far? Is that what you are saying a coach should expect to do? Go away from your team's strengths?

That's my main issue with Pringles. He never seems to adjust. I understand that every coach has a system. But it's the ability to adjust in game and over the course of the season that separates the good from the great. George Karl, as much as I dislike him, adjusted his system to incorporate a number of different styles. Riley? The same. Larry Brown had success with the Spurs and Pistons, which were two vastly different rosters. Phil Jackson, for all this talk of triangle style PGs, was able to adjust his style to incorporate guys like BJ Armstrong and John Paxson to guys like Brian Shaw and Ron Harper. Heck,Harper wasn't even a point guard, but Phil found a way to incorporate him.
Guys like, Don Nelson and Rick Pitino are talented b'ball minds, but they never showed that flexibility.

Now I see what Phil was trying to do with Frank. He thought with his IQ and Ron Harper type defense...passing ability. He figured Frank could be a Ron Harper type PG. But I think MJ made all those bums look great. If Frank was the PG with MJ...He would probably have a similar career to Ron Harper. But that's for another topic...

I agree that his inability to adjust his offense from the regular season to the playoffs was his weakness. His inability to adjust his offense to fit melo was another sign of his lack of flexibility. As you see the very next game melo left....They had a blow out win. That's more than chemistry issues I think....I could be wrong.

But when Danfoni gets the right mix of players to run his system....it runs like a sports car. He just needed a strong minded defensive coach or coaching staff...mixed with low post offensive minded coaches....