Knicks · Thoughts on Knox and Building this Team (page 3)

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:I too am excited about Knox. He's still growing physically and skill-wise

I think one frustrating part about "building the team" is we have no idea what the FO truly envisions as a "team." Ee don't seem to have an offensive or defensive strategy so we go around in circles about what the team actually needs.

There are teams that run through a primary dominant ball handler, e.g., Harden Giannis (perhaps Rose yesteryear) etc. It can create a very simple and effective offensive strategy like the Bucks, where you are either forced to deal with Giannis one on one (where he will shoot a high percentage) or you double him in which case they have 4 guys spread wide apart and three guys defending. Even their worst shooter isn't bad if he's shooting wide open

Or if you're skilled and smart enough you can run something like GS or Spurs

Or if you have a powerhouse like DeRozan or James or Harden where you can get a guy to take 10+ free throws a game you get another edge

Right now we're a mess. It's not clear whether the coach is coming in with his own system and trying to fit players into that, or whether he's looking at players strengths and trying to create a system from that. For the most part it looks like YMCA ball. As a result just about any criticism is valid to some degree.

At the beginning of the season we heard about defense but we consistently give up nearly 40 points in the first. Let that sink in. That time is key. 4th quarter comebacks while exciting are suspect indicators about the team. The opponent might simply be playing softer D to avoid stopping the clock and fouls. Likewise on offense, they might be milking the clock and then rushing shots at the end. You can't trust them like an indicator the way you can a first and a third quarter.

Because I'm a fan, I'm holding onto some crazy hope that this is part of a genius plot of a stealth tank. We're trying to lose, and at the same time work on individual skills like dribbling and one-on-one skills. Thus while are flow might look selfish and like crap, are brain trust is actually plotting a dynasty of superstars. Yeah I know it's a coping mechanism, but without it I have to admit we're actually significantly worse than last year. AND there is no plan other than for the coach and FO to talk a lot

Team will run through KP unless KD decides to sign here. Fizz seems to allow players to have freedom to do what they want. Which means you will need high I players cappable of making the right plays as well as talent to impose their will.

When KO comes back he will probably be handed the keys and everything will then feed off of him based on his talent level and Fizz couch ng style. Which means it will then be up to KP to bring his game to that next level.

Man, I hope he has more of a plan than that.

No plan, no system and no defense. Fiz is being overvauled by fans who like to watch a bunch of aimless chucking. I don't know about Durant but I can't tell why he would want to come here. Westbrook ws selfish but at least he could win games and played solid defense. We have rental PGs that think the first, second and third shot in every possession is theirs to take. The coach seems to think the same because there's zero accountability for chucking. And then we'll have KP who demands the ball and won't get it.

arkrud wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

FireHornacek wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Doncic is much better than Knox sure, but he is their number one option. That will never be the expectation of Knox with KP here.

Your expectations for Knox are far too lofty. #2 guy? 20 a game? No way. He's Chris Copeland at best.

We are in first year of rebuild.
Knox has at least 2 more years before we will be relevant in NBA.
Its a lot of time for him to develop.

we have been rebuilding for 5 yrs, all we did with phils guys is move away from the triangle.

Go back and look at the post and threads at the start of the last 5 seasons, and it's always, "we are in yr 1 of the rebuilding"

what was last yr, a playoff yr, we got a new coach with the same plan, a new GM with the same plan, build through the draft and FA. There's only about 4 or 5 guys on this team that should be part of the knicks future..Trier, Mitch, mudiay, knox, and KP..

Our seasons have crashed and burned by january, this yr it never left the cockpit. Fans are going to question this whole sht when you get blown out on a nightly bases to good and very bad teams at home..

Yesterday you saw frank make a nice drive to the basket (his only fcking basket) then he fell right back into bad habits of hoisting 22 foot bricks from the same spots he struggles from every single game, that progression?

You see the same absent minded defensive lapse from every player...GTFOH , this is not the way you rebuild, this is not how the GSW, Celtics, rockets, pacers, thunder, ect, rebuild..This is "throwing on the wall and see if it sticks"

Hiring HOF coach as GM is not a rebuild.
Resigning NBA loser for max with NTC is not rebuild.
Signing Noahs and Rozes of NBA is not rebuild.
Trading 1st rounders away is not a rebuild.
Rebuild started when Dolan capitulated with Jackson firing, trading Melo for bag of chips, sending Noah away, hiring coach with clear goal to develop young players, drafting teens and projects.
And this started exactly one year back and has looooooooooooong way to go.

what do you think is going to happen this off season, instead of Melo, it will be another max player, that max player is going to want to win now. If you dont get that max player, they will more signings like Noah and THJ, baker, hell we might max mudiay out if he keeps it up

what first rounder did phil trade away, the last 1st rounder we traded away was for bargiani, 5 yrs ago.

trading for rose expiring contract was a no brainer, unless you had the same hopes for grant as you do for frank..is Grant a starter yet, it's been 3 yrs..

The only reason the sixers rebuild plan took a little longer was because their top picks had season long injuries, whats the knicks excuse..

What has mills done different from phil other than than the triangle..

You must think playing 10 guys under 23 yrs old is a rebuild(half on expiring contracts)..its more like TRY OUTS

the celtics had one bad yr after the KG/PP/Allen era

more than half this roster will be gone next yr, is that the start of another rebuild?

to me, there is no reason to rush. Yeah, I wouldn't say no to KD. That said, I lean more to committing to Mudiay after each game. Hopefully the Knicks draft well this year. Hopefully some of our young player look like we should commit to them too. it takes time for everyone to learn to play together as well. As impressive as our rookies have looked overall, none of them has tried to fit in with our best player yet.

Rainman1248: We did not have a no. 1 pick in 2014 and 2016. No second round pick in 2015 or 2016.

Actually facts speak for themselves. https://www.basketball-reference.com/tea...
Boston "tanked" by sending off KP and Pierce. Great move and it took balls.
Thunder built off tanking in Seattle and then into OKC. Took a long view and drafted well. A bit of luck when Oden was taken ahead of Durant. Westbrook needed time to mature.
Each team rebuild has its own unique circumstances and elements. No two a like.
Ours has been pathetic. But there has been a paradigm shift in our thinking the last few years. That matters.
What we do forward has no bearing on what we did in the past. TO think it continues "just because" is childish.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:I too am excited about Knox. He's still growing physically and skill-wise

I think one frustrating part about "building the team" is we have no idea what the FO truly envisions as a "team." Ee don't seem to have an offensive or defensive strategy so we go around in circles about what the team actually needs.

There are teams that run through a primary dominant ball handler, e.g., Harden Giannis (perhaps Rose yesteryear) etc. It can create a very simple and effective offensive strategy like the Bucks, where you are either forced to deal with Giannis one on one (where he will shoot a high percentage) or you double him in which case they have 4 guys spread wide apart and three guys defending. Even their worst shooter isn't bad if he's shooting wide open

Or if you're skilled and smart enough you can run something like GS or Spurs

Or if you have a powerhouse like DeRozan or James or Harden where you can get a guy to take 10+ free throws a game you get another edge

Right now we're a mess. It's not clear whether the coach is coming in with his own system and trying to fit players into that, or whether he's looking at players strengths and trying to create a system from that. For the most part it looks like YMCA ball. As a result just about any criticism is valid to some degree.

At the beginning of the season we heard about defense but we consistently give up nearly 40 points in the first. Let that sink in. That time is key. 4th quarter comebacks while exciting are suspect indicators about the team. The opponent might simply be playing softer D to avoid stopping the clock and fouls. Likewise on offense, they might be milking the clock and then rushing shots at the end. You can't trust them like an indicator the way you can a first and a third quarter.

Because I'm a fan, I'm holding onto some crazy hope that this is part of a genius plot of a stealth tank. We're trying to lose, and at the same time work on individual skills like dribbling and one-on-one skills. Thus while are flow might look selfish and like crap, are brain trust is actually plotting a dynasty of superstars. Yeah I know it's a coping mechanism, but without it I have to admit we're actually significantly worse than last year. AND there is no plan other than for the coach and FO to talk a lot

Team will run through KP unless KD decides to sign here. Fizz seems to allow players to have freedom to do what they want. Which means you will need high I players cappable of making the right plays as well as talent to impose their will.

When KO comes back he will probably be handed the keys and everything will then feed off of him based on his talent level and Fizz couch ng style. Which means it will then be up to KP to bring his game to that next level.

Man, I hope he has more of a plan than that.

No plan, no system and no defense. Fiz is being overvauled by fans who like to watch a bunch of aimless chucking. I don't know about Durant but I can't tell why he would want to come here. Westbrook ws selfish but at least he could win games and played solid defense. We have rental PGs that think the first, second and third shot in every possession is theirs to take. The coach seems to think the same because there's zero accountability for chucking. And then we'll have KP who demands the ball and won't get it.

Once we get a real PG it will change. Can’t blame Fiz, he just doesn’t have the horses. Replace Mudiay with Rubio and watch everything change.

Knixkik wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:I too am excited about Knox. He's still growing physically and skill-wise

I think one frustrating part about "building the team" is we have no idea what the FO truly envisions as a "team." Ee don't seem to have an offensive or defensive strategy so we go around in circles about what the team actually needs.

There are teams that run through a primary dominant ball handler, e.g., Harden Giannis (perhaps Rose yesteryear) etc. It can create a very simple and effective offensive strategy like the Bucks, where you are either forced to deal with Giannis one on one (where he will shoot a high percentage) or you double him in which case they have 4 guys spread wide apart and three guys defending. Even their worst shooter isn't bad if he's shooting wide open

Or if you're skilled and smart enough you can run something like GS or Spurs

Or if you have a powerhouse like DeRozan or James or Harden where you can get a guy to take 10+ free throws a game you get another edge

Right now we're a mess. It's not clear whether the coach is coming in with his own system and trying to fit players into that, or whether he's looking at players strengths and trying to create a system from that. For the most part it looks like YMCA ball. As a result just about any criticism is valid to some degree.

At the beginning of the season we heard about defense but we consistently give up nearly 40 points in the first. Let that sink in. That time is key. 4th quarter comebacks while exciting are suspect indicators about the team. The opponent might simply be playing softer D to avoid stopping the clock and fouls. Likewise on offense, they might be milking the clock and then rushing shots at the end. You can't trust them like an indicator the way you can a first and a third quarter.

Because I'm a fan, I'm holding onto some crazy hope that this is part of a genius plot of a stealth tank. We're trying to lose, and at the same time work on individual skills like dribbling and one-on-one skills. Thus while are flow might look selfish and like crap, are brain trust is actually plotting a dynasty of superstars. Yeah I know it's a coping mechanism, but without it I have to admit we're actually significantly worse than last year. AND there is no plan other than for the coach and FO to talk a lot

Team will run through KP unless KD decides to sign here. Fizz seems to allow players to have freedom to do what they want. Which means you will need high I players cappable of making the right plays as well as talent to impose their will.

When KO comes back he will probably be handed the keys and everything will then feed off of him based on his talent level and Fizz couch ng style. Which means it will then be up to KP to bring his game to that next level.

Man, I hope he has more of a plan than that.

No plan, no system and no defense. Fiz is being overvauled by fans who like to watch a bunch of aimless chucking. I don't know about Durant but I can't tell why he would want to come here. Westbrook ws selfish but at least he could win games and played solid defense. We have rental PGs that think the first, second and third shot in every possession is theirs to take. The coach seems to think the same because there's zero accountability for chucking. And then we'll have KP who demands the ball and won't get it.

Once we get a real PG it will change. Can’t blame Fiz, he just doesn’t have the horses. Replace Mudiay with Rubio and watch everything change.

I am not asking for miracles, just a game plan. You can't be a head coach in the NBA and not have a game plan. This is almost as bad as Woodson.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:I too am excited about Knox. He's still growing physically and skill-wise

I think one frustrating part about "building the team" is we have no idea what the FO truly envisions as a "team." Ee don't seem to have an offensive or defensive strategy so we go around in circles about what the team actually needs.

There are teams that run through a primary dominant ball handler, e.g., Harden Giannis (perhaps Rose yesteryear) etc. It can create a very simple and effective offensive strategy like the Bucks, where you are either forced to deal with Giannis one on one (where he will shoot a high percentage) or you double him in which case they have 4 guys spread wide apart and three guys defending. Even their worst shooter isn't bad if he's shooting wide open

Or if you're skilled and smart enough you can run something like GS or Spurs

Or if you have a powerhouse like DeRozan or James or Harden where you can get a guy to take 10+ free throws a game you get another edge

Right now we're a mess. It's not clear whether the coach is coming in with his own system and trying to fit players into that, or whether he's looking at players strengths and trying to create a system from that. For the most part it looks like YMCA ball. As a result just about any criticism is valid to some degree.

At the beginning of the season we heard about defense but we consistently give up nearly 40 points in the first. Let that sink in. That time is key. 4th quarter comebacks while exciting are suspect indicators about the team. The opponent might simply be playing softer D to avoid stopping the clock and fouls. Likewise on offense, they might be milking the clock and then rushing shots at the end. You can't trust them like an indicator the way you can a first and a third quarter.

Because I'm a fan, I'm holding onto some crazy hope that this is part of a genius plot of a stealth tank. We're trying to lose, and at the same time work on individual skills like dribbling and one-on-one skills. Thus while are flow might look selfish and like crap, are brain trust is actually plotting a dynasty of superstars. Yeah I know it's a coping mechanism, but without it I have to admit we're actually significantly worse than last year. AND there is no plan other than for the coach and FO to talk a lot

Team will run through KP unless KD decides to sign here. Fizz seems to allow players to have freedom to do what they want. Which means you will need high I players cappable of making the right plays as well as talent to impose their will.

When KO comes back he will probably be handed the keys and everything will then feed off of him based on his talent level and Fizz couch ng style. Which means it will then be up to KP to bring his game to that next level.

Man, I hope he has more of a plan than that.

No plan, no system and no defense. Fiz is being overvauled by fans who like to watch a bunch of aimless chucking. I don't know about Durant but I can't tell why he would want to come here. Westbrook ws selfish but at least he could win games and played solid defense. We have rental PGs that think the first, second and third shot in every possession is theirs to take. The coach seems to think the same because there's zero accountability for chucking. And then we'll have KP who demands the ball and won't get it.

Once we get a real PG it will change. Can’t blame Fiz, he just doesn’t have the horses. Replace Mudiay with Rubio and watch everything change.

I am not asking for miracles, just a game plan. You can't be a head coach in the NBA and not have a game plan. This is almost as bad as Woodson.

The game plan is evaluate and develop young players.
All the rest is a smoke screen.
Who cares what is the plan for smoke screen action?

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

FireHornacek wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Doncic is much better than Knox sure, but he is their number one option. That will never be the expectation of Knox with KP here.

Your expectations for Knox are far too lofty. #2 guy? 20 a game? No way. He's Chris Copeland at best.

We are in first year of rebuild.
Knox has at least 2 more years before we will be relevant in NBA.
Its a lot of time for him to develop.

we have been rebuilding for 5 yrs, all we did with phils guys is move away from the triangle.

Go back and look at the post and threads at the start of the last 5 seasons, and it's always, "we are in yr 1 of the rebuilding"

what was last yr, a playoff yr, we got a new coach with the same plan, a new GM with the same plan, build through the draft and FA. There's only about 4 or 5 guys on this team that should be part of the knicks future..Trier, Mitch, mudiay, knox, and KP..

Our seasons have crashed and burned by january, this yr it never left the cockpit. Fans are going to question this whole sht when you get blown out on a nightly bases to good and very bad teams at home..

Yesterday you saw frank make a nice drive to the basket (his only fcking basket) then he fell right back into bad habits of hoisting 22 foot bricks from the same spots he struggles from every single game, that progression?

You see the same absent minded defensive lapse from every player...GTFOH , this is not the way you rebuild, this is not how the GSW, Celtics, rockets, pacers, thunder, ect, rebuild..This is "throwing on the wall and see if it sticks"

Hiring HOF coach as GM is not a rebuild.
Resigning NBA loser for max with NTC is not rebuild.
Signing Noahs and Rozes of NBA is not rebuild.
Trading 1st rounders away is not a rebuild.
Rebuild started when Dolan capitulated with Jackson firing, trading Melo for bag of chips, sending Noah away, hiring coach with clear goal to develop young players, drafting teens and projects.
And this started exactly one year back and has looooooooooooong way to go.

what do you think is going to happen this off season, instead of Melo, it will be another max player, that max player is going to want to win now. If you dont get that max player, they will more signings like Noah and THJ, baker, hell we might max mudiay out if he keeps it up

what first rounder did phil trade away, the last 1st rounder we traded away was for bargiani, 5 yrs ago.

trading for rose expiring contract was a no brainer, unless you had the same hopes for grant as you do for frank..is Grant a starter yet, it's been 3 yrs..

The only reason the sixers rebuild plan took a little longer was because their top picks had season long injuries, whats the knicks excuse..

What has mills done different from phil other than than the triangle..

You must think playing 10 guys under 23 yrs old is a rebuild(half on expiring contracts)..its more like TRY OUTS

the celtics had one bad yr after the KG/PP/Allen era

more than half this roster will be gone next yr, is that the start of another rebuild?

You mention 5 years and I mention the last traded pick.
What we will do in off-season is to be seen.
I do not care about the future which never happened yet and about the past which is gone.
I am leaving in present moment only and very happy about it.
I like what I see, the work and the process.
And I am willing to be in this happy state for long time as it is fun.
If you are sad and depressed it is your problem.

FireHornacek wrote:

blkexec wrote:"a good looking white guy" Roots of racism and ignorance still exist. Such a lost little soul...I feel sorry for you. WAKE UP....Educate yourself.....It's 2019

Hey, meathhead, educate yourself. And the first step should be learning how to read. Here is my full quote:

" a good looking white guy who can really play ball. That's gold for the league."

"Gold for the league." Got it? Only a blind, naive, Pollyanna would not think that a good-looking white guy is gold for the league. Like Billy said to Prince in PURPLE RAIN, "this is a bidness, motherf***er" and sound business is to reach out to all demographics. A white guy in a predominantly black league will do wonders for the business. Ever hear of Larry Bird. Unfortunately, there are white folks out there that just won't watch what they feel is a black sport (and that goes both ways. How many black folks are watching hockey?).

Doncic is gold for the league. Count on it. White guy doing well in black sport will bring more (white) viewers. My God, look at the impact Yao or Lin had with Asian audiences. And it happens in all sports and it can go either way. The Williams sisters are great business for tennis, Tiger Woods is great business for golf. The leagues obvioulsy won't say it, but they do desire someone of a different color to shine. Hell, you don't think the business men behind boxing are not craving a white heavyweight champ?

My comment about Doncic being gold for the league is all about business, so take your vile racism charges and shove them up your ass. (Sorry for that profanity, mods, but he deserved it.)

Such a lost soul. Define white and black. Last time I checked, those are colors in a crayon box.

Your profanity shows your ignorance and insecurity. Big bad wolf behind a keyboard is todays bully I guess. If we can't have an educated discussion about a serious topic, then go find somebody else to bully. Good luck trying to find a job. I might be your boss....WAKE UP

I'm not a fighter anymore....Sorry to spoil your day. I have too much to be grateful for.

This is a test on how to handle ignorance. Handle ignorance with love not hate. One day you will wake up and see the bigger picture.

By the way, let me know where the country white and black is located on the map. Then we can talk. I can help you with your English as well, since it's clear you use profanity to hide your illiteracy. I grew up in this same ignorance, so I understand your pain. One day you will grow up.

Happy Holidays! and Merry Christmas.

Sorry guys....I guess he said something that rubbed me the wrong way. I'm currently in a different space right now....Please ignore this post and lets keep it on knicks. This discussion is for another forum. My bad Martin.