Knicks · Might be time to trade Frank (along with Lee) (page 2)

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:In typical knicks (FO) fashion, they will wait until their players value is at rock bottom, then snag a 2nd rnd pick for him. He's not worth a 1rst round pick, and certainly not a lottery pick.. I would attach frank to any trade that gets LEE off the books

New front office. I haven't seen them do anything really stupid since Perry took over. Trades I recall are the Willy trade and Mudiay trade.

They should have traded willy in the summer if they knew he wasn't in the rotation, not wait until he wanted out. Perry did trade melo, but the damage was pretty much done by phil, then mills continued you on with it before perry came in and saved him from the rockets potential trade.

If frank finishes the season like he's playing now, there's no way you don't upgrade his position, and that would leave him pretty much out the rotation, almost like Trier pushing Baker out..

It's up to frank to turned into a GYM rat and get his game up, because there are so many players better than him now, and coming into the league..we already have a glut at the guard position..

The knicks can turn around and sign middleton and brogdon, keep mudiay and THJ, knox at SF..where's franks mins coming from..

I said the same thing about baker during SL when trier entered the picture

SupremeCommander wrote:of course Frank has value but I'm thinking it's more like a top 55 protected second rounder through the next 10 years
maybe you agree or maybe you disagree
but I don't think anyone disagrees that Franks value is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less than lotto pick
that's why the Knicks should probably keep him. I think at this point he is a reasonably priced rotation piece that hopefully puts it together before his rookie contrat runs out

In a perfect world, he'd put it together immediately AFTER signing a reasonably priced extension. How about the Knicks get a value deal for a change?

Panos wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:of course Frank has value but I'm thinking it's more like a top 55 protected second rounder through the next 10 years
maybe you agree or maybe you disagree
but I don't think anyone disagrees that Franks value is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less than lotto pick
that's why the Knicks should probably keep him. I think at this point he is a reasonably priced rotation piece that hopefully puts it together before his rookie contrat runs out

In a perfect world, he'd put it together immediately AFTER signing a reasonably priced extension. How about the Knicks get a value deal for a change?

that's my point,

When was the last time the knicks traded a player that blew up on another team.. maybe Ariza, and that trade was bad because because the idea of a steve francis and marbury back court, was the dumbest sht i ever saw..

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:In typical knicks (FO) fashion, they will wait until their players value is at rock bottom, then snag a 2nd rnd pick for him. He's not worth a 1rst round pick, and certainly not a lottery pick.. I would attach frank to any trade that gets LEE off the books

New front office. I haven't seen them do anything really stupid since Perry took over. Trades I recall are the Willy trade and Mudiay trade.

They should have traded willy in the summer if they knew he wasn't in the rotation, not wait until he wanted out. Perry did trade melo, but the damage was pretty much done by phil, then mills continued you on with it before perry came in and saved him from the rockets potential trade.

If frank finishes the season like he's playing now, there's no way you don't upgrade his position, and that would leave him pretty much out the rotation, almost like Trier pushing Baker out..

It's up to frank to turned into a GYM rat and get his game up, because there are so many players better than him now, and coming into the league..we already have a glut at the guard position..

The knicks can turn around and sign middleton and brogdon, keep mudiay and THJ, knox at SF..where's franks mins coming from..

I said the same thing about baker during SL when trier entered the picture

I don't think they expected Willy to come into camp out of shape. There was some speculation that he would beat out Kanter for the starting spot. Willy wanted out after he didn't earn a spot in the rotation. Perry did well to get those two picks in my opinion. I don't see Charlotte being very good in 20 or 21 especially if Kemba leaves.

You have to hold on to him now. Noone is giving more than a mid 2nd rounder likely. And that player would be unlikely to make the team. He really needs a shooting guru. He is the worst shooting PG in the entire league that plays more than occasionally. Despite the puzzling belief around here that he has a good shot and has shown he can shoot, it's unlikely he will ever be an average shooter and the that likelihood drops as time goes on. Frank is a fringe NBA player on his defense alone now, but you have to keep him and hope you hit the lottery.

Panos wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:of course Frank has value but I'm thinking it's more like a top 55 protected second rounder through the next 10 years
maybe you agree or maybe you disagree
but I don't think anyone disagrees that Franks value is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less than lotto pick
that's why the Knicks should probably keep him. I think at this point he is a reasonably priced rotation piece that hopefully puts it together before his rookie contrat runs out

In a perfect world, he'd put it together immediately AFTER signing a reasonably priced extension. How about the Knicks get a value deal for a change?

I think a lot of times when you reward a young kid who hasn't accomplished anything of note you are stuck with same player. Crawford didn't improve, nor did Currry... if you want more recent examples, you could say the same thing about Landry Fields or Ron Baker. I am okay with paying a little bit for potential but Frank hasn't shown anything impactful yet.

So I'd keep him because he won't fetch any value but I wouldn't extend him until he's proven something, anything

knicks1248 wrote:

Panos wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:of course Frank has value but I'm thinking it's more like a top 55 protected second rounder through the next 10 years
maybe you agree or maybe you disagree
but I don't think anyone disagrees that Franks value is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less than lotto pick
that's why the Knicks should probably keep him. I think at this point he is a reasonably priced rotation piece that hopefully puts it together before his rookie contrat runs out

In a perfect world, he'd put it together immediately AFTER signing a reasonably priced extension. How about the Knicks get a value deal for a change?

that's my point,

When was the last time the knicks traded a player that blew up on another team.. maybe Ariza, and that trade was bad because because the idea of a steve francis and marbury back court, was the dumbest sht i ever saw..

If you proof read your posts you might think differently.

nykshaknbake wrote:You have to hold on to him now. Noone is giving more than a mid 2nd rounder likely. And that player would be unlikely to make the team. He really needs a shooting guru. He is the worst shooting PG in the entire league that plays more than occasionally. Despite the puzzling belief around here that he has a good shot and has shown he can shoot, it's unlikely he will ever be an average shooter and the that likelihood drops as time goes on. Frank is a fringe NBA player on his defense alone now, but you have to keep him and hope you hit the lottery.

Saw this on the Filmschool site. Macri is a big Frank fan but also has balance in his articles.

In no uncertain terms, Frank has been horrible on the offensive end this year, and that is maybe not a strong enough word to describe his performance. Of the 159 players this season with a 16 usage rate or higher who’ve played at least 10 games and 20 minutes a night, Ntilikina’s 43.6 true shooting percentage ranks dead last.

https://knicksfilmschool.com/2018/12/26/...

CrushAlot wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:You have to hold on to him now. Noone is giving more than a mid 2nd rounder likely. And that player would be unlikely to make the team. He really needs a shooting guru. He is the worst shooting PG in the entire league that plays more than occasionally. Despite the puzzling belief around here that he has a good shot and has shown he can shoot, it's unlikely he will ever be an average shooter and the that likelihood drops as time goes on. Frank is a fringe NBA player on his defense alone now, but you have to keep him and hope you hit the lottery.

Saw this on the Filmschool site. Macri is a big Frank fan but also has balance in his articles.

In no uncertain terms, Frank has been horrible on the offensive end this year, and that is maybe not a strong enough word to describe his performance. Of the 159 players this season with a 16 usage rate or higher who’ve played at least 10 games and 20 minutes a night, Ntilikina’s 43.6 true shooting percentage ranks dead last.

https://knicksfilmschool.com/2018/12/26/...

KFS is where Im out with the kid. I too root hard for this kid to succeed. Hard to pinpoint the reasons why. maybe its Knicks1248 negativity that makes me want him to succeed even more? because he was so young and it being a bit of a stretch pick for Phil? Wanting the stranger that was Gaines to keep up the good work? That his family story and work ethic for the three brothers was inspiring?

Hope prevails. I don't want to see him succeed anywhere but as a knick. That would be painful. Maybe some fans would rather be "right" and see him fall to verify their own vanity. That's awful.

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:You have to hold on to him now. Noone is giving more than a mid 2nd rounder likely. And that player would be unlikely to make the team. He really needs a shooting guru. He is the worst shooting PG in the entire league that plays more than occasionally. Despite the puzzling belief around here that he has a good shot and has shown he can shoot, it's unlikely he will ever be an average shooter and the that likelihood drops as time goes on. Frank is a fringe NBA player on his defense alone now, but you have to keep him and hope you hit the lottery.

Saw this on the Filmschool site. Macri is a big Frank fan but also has balance in his articles.

In no uncertain terms, Frank has been horrible on the offensive end this year, and that is maybe not a strong enough word to describe his performance. Of the 159 players this season with a 16 usage rate or higher who’ve played at least 10 games and 20 minutes a night, Ntilikina’s 43.6 true shooting percentage ranks dead last.

https://knicksfilmschool.com/2018/12/26/...

KFS is where Im out with the kid. I too root hard for this kid to succeed. Hard to pinpoint the reasons why. maybe its Knicks1248 negativity that makes me want him to succeed even more? because he was so young and it being a bit of a stretch pick for Phil? Wanting the stranger that was Gaines to keep up the good work? That his family story and work ethic for the three brothers was inspiring?

Hope prevails. I don't want to see him succeed anywhere but as a knick. That would be painful. Maybe some fans would rather be "right" and see him fall to verify their own vanity. That's awful.

Agreed. Ive been pretty honest about this kid. Never proclaimed he was ever gonna be an all star. I felt and still feel he can be a valuable two way player. Despite what a certain person says 20 years old isnt enough time to develop a player unless you get lucky. However its possible Frank doesnt work out here. Its not like he hasnt shown anything. We all know his defense is really good. He is a smart player. Yes we know his offense is still developing but we have seen flashes of it. I just feel is far too early to pull the plug.

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:In typical knicks (FO) fashion, they will wait until their players value is at rock bottom, then snag a 2nd rnd pick for him. He's not worth a 1rst round pick, and certainly not a lottery pick.. I would attach frank to any trade that gets LEE off the books

New front office. I haven't seen them do anything really stupid since Perry took over. Trades I recall are the Willy trade and Mudiay trade.

They should have traded willy in the summer if they knew he wasn't in the rotation, not wait until he wanted out. Perry did trade melo, but the damage was pretty much done by phil, then mills continued you on with it before perry came in and saved him from the rockets potential trade.

If frank finishes the season like he's playing now, there's no way you don't upgrade his position, and that would leave him pretty much out the rotation, almost like Trier pushing Baker out..

It's up to frank to turned into a GYM rat and get his game up, because there are so many players better than him now, and coming into the league..we already have a glut at the guard position..

The knicks can turn around and sign middleton and brogdon, keep mudiay and THJ, knox at SF..where's franks mins coming from..

I said the same thing about baker during SL when trier entered the picture

I don't think they expected Willy to come into camp out of shape. There was some speculation that he would beat out Kanter for the starting spot. Willy wanted out after he didn't earn a spot in the rotation. Perry did well to get those two picks in my opinion. I don't see Charlotte being very good in 20 or 21 especially if Kemba leaves.

If the knicks sign another PG (maybe kemba) and keep trier, where is franks mins coming from..please answer that question

They are already experimenting with trier as pg/sg and they are not playing trey, mudiay, trier and frank, in the same game, somebody has to sit..

It’s getting to that time. If Frankie doesn’t shoot then no point having him around.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Mudiay is 22. He is in his 4th year in the league and ONLY now is showing signs of becoming a player who can be counted on.

Frank is 20. He does a lot well. His shot is not ugly He he has good form. He is 90% from the line. He can shoot. He lacks confidence. He will get there.

GIVE FRANK TIME!! Trust the process.

Perfect! 100%

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:In typical knicks (FO) fashion, they will wait until their players value is at rock bottom, then snag a 2nd rnd pick for him. He's not worth a 1rst round pick, and certainly not a lottery pick.. I would attach frank to any trade that gets LEE off the books

New front office. I haven't seen them do anything really stupid since Perry took over. Trades I recall are the Willy trade and Mudiay trade.

They should have traded willy in the summer if they knew he wasn't in the rotation, not wait until he wanted out. Perry did trade melo, but the damage was pretty much done by phil, then mills continued you on with it before perry came in and saved him from the rockets potential trade.

If frank finishes the season like he's playing now, there's no way you don't upgrade his position, and that would leave him pretty much out the rotation, almost like Trier pushing Baker out..

It's up to frank to turned into a GYM rat and get his game up, because there are so many players better than him now, and coming into the league..we already have a glut at the guard position..

The knicks can turn around and sign middleton and brogdon, keep mudiay and THJ, knox at SF..where's franks mins coming from..

I said the same thing about baker during SL when trier entered the picture

I don't think they expected Willy to come into camp out of shape. There was some speculation that he would beat out Kanter for the starting spot. Willy wanted out after he didn't earn a spot in the rotation. Perry did well to get those two picks in my opinion. I don't see Charlotte being very good in 20 or 21 especially if Kemba leaves.

If the knicks sign another PG (maybe kemba) and keep trier, where is franks mins coming from..please answer that question

They are already experimenting with trier as pg/sg and they are not playing trey, mudiay, trier and frank, in the same game, somebody has to sit..

Trey appears to be destined for the exits. There are still minutes if they don't bring a PG in but if they do then Frank is going to live and die by his ability to show in practice, preseason or whatever minutes he gets now he can be a 3 and D guy. Trier and Dotson are more SG types. IF mudiay keeps it up on the offensive side of things it might be reasonable to hope he could play some better D and become a very good PG for us.
You take a healthy KP, all star projected(by me) Knox good role players in Dotson,Trier, Vonleh, Robinson and perhaps a superstar or star FA, we might have a very competitive team in a couple years from now.

nykshaknbake wrote:You have to hold on to him now. Noone is giving more than a mid 2nd rounder likely. And that player would be unlikely to make the team. He really needs a shooting guru. He is the worst shooting PG in the entire league that plays more than occasionally. Despite the puzzling belief around here that he has a good shot and has shown he can shoot, it's unlikely he will ever be an average shooter and the that likelihood drops as time goes on. Frank is a fringe NBA player on his defense alone now, but you have to keep him and hope you hit the lottery.

He had a bad shot when we drafted him. People here kept telling me he had a nice release, form is fine but its slow as hell. Dude looks like he feet are stuck in molasis on the court. However I wouldn't trade him to dump a contract unless I knew I was getting a legit max player. Im not going to trade him just to trade him

if we can clear Lee with Frank, do it.

Look - if I am a developing team, I'd value Frank highly enough to take Lee's deal on. A developing team isn't planning to sign a max FA, Lee's deal isn't horrible.

And look, Frank may yet develop. So, it's not that I am giving up on him, but realizing that maybe we don't have the minutes to give him to develop.

We should send him to the G League - but maybe we're scared of what he might not do there!

CrushAlot wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Mudiay is 22. He is in his 4th year in the league and ONLY now is showing signs of becoming a player who can be counted on.

Frank is 20. He does a lot well. His shot is not ugly He he has good form. He is 90% from the line. He can shoot. He lacks confidence. He will get there.

GIVE FRANK TIME!! Trust the process.

He is a really high character kid that works really hard as well. I think he gets this year and probably until the '19 trade deadline before the team starts looking to trade him/move on from him.

my thoughts exactly. i think you meant the 20 trade deadline since 19 trade deadline is coming up in a couple of months :)

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:In typical knicks (FO) fashion, they will wait until their players value is at rock bottom, then snag a 2nd rnd pick for him. He's not worth a 1rst round pick, and certainly not a lottery pick.. I would attach frank to any trade that gets LEE off the books

New front office. I haven't seen them do anything really stupid since Perry took over. Trades I recall are the Willy trade and Mudiay trade.

They should have traded willy in the summer if they knew he wasn't in the rotation, not wait until he wanted out. Perry did trade melo, but the damage was pretty much done by phil, then mills continued you on with it before perry came in and saved him from the rockets potential trade.

If frank finishes the season like he's playing now, there's no way you don't upgrade his position, and that would leave him pretty much out the rotation, almost like Trier pushing Baker out..

It's up to frank to turned into a GYM rat and get his game up, because there are so many players better than him now, and coming into the league..we already have a glut at the guard position..

The knicks can turn around and sign middleton and brogdon, keep mudiay and THJ, knox at SF..where's franks mins coming from..

I said the same thing about baker during SL when trier entered the picture

baker wow...what a prediction... i think half the planet predicted that.
regarding willy....that trade was a wash...we had traded two 2nd round picks to get him and we got two 2nd round picks by trading him...nothing gained nothing lost.

frank knows whats at state.....if we draft zion and durant somehow magically signs here, the pressure is off frank and on the starters...no way frank breaks into that starting lineup.

next season's trade deadline...that's his deadline imho.

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:In typical knicks (FO) fashion, they will wait until their players value is at rock bottom, then snag a 2nd rnd pick for him. He's not worth a 1rst round pick, and certainly not a lottery pick.. I would attach frank to any trade that gets LEE off the books

New front office. I haven't seen them do anything really stupid since Perry took over. Trades I recall are the Willy trade and Mudiay trade.

They should have traded willy in the summer if they knew he wasn't in the rotation, not wait until he wanted out. Perry did trade melo, but the damage was pretty much done by phil, then mills continued you on with it before perry came in and saved him from the rockets potential trade.

If frank finishes the season like he's playing now, there's no way you don't upgrade his position, and that would leave him pretty much out the rotation, almost like Trier pushing Baker out..

It's up to frank to turned into a GYM rat and get his game up, because there are so many players better than him now, and coming into the league..we already have a glut at the guard position..

The knicks can turn around and sign middleton and brogdon, keep mudiay and THJ, knox at SF..where's franks mins coming from..

I said the same thing about baker during SL when trier entered the picture

I don't think they expected Willy to come into camp out of shape. There was some speculation that he would beat out Kanter for the starting spot. Willy wanted out after he didn't earn a spot in the rotation. Perry did well to get those two picks in my opinion. I don't see Charlotte being very good in 20 or 21 especially if Kemba leaves.

If the knicks sign another PG (maybe kemba) and keep trier, where is franks mins coming from..please answer that question

They are already experimenting with trier as pg/sg and they are not playing trey, mudiay, trier and frank, in the same game, somebody has to sit..

backup SF

Knicks are not trading Frank until this summer at the earliest (unless someone offers them a solid 1st round pick, which I doubt will occur) and, if the do trade him this summer, it will likely be to clear cap space to sign a FA. It is still too early to give up on Frank. The kid needs to gain muscle and add some more experience to his game before we really know what he can do. He is 6'7" and he still looks thin, which I think impacts his confidence in driving to the lane and rebounding. The Knicks really should have sent him to the D-league last year and they may need to send him down this year. He needs a consistent 25-30 minutes a game to develop his offensive confidence.

frank needs our love.........LOL.