Knicks · Bondy: High number of players w/expiring contracts has negatively affected ball movement (Fiz quote in his tweet) (page 1)

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CrushAlot wrote:

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Wow can't believe he said it, Its obvious but still. Its amazing to me how many Knick fans have fallen for Mudiays empty stats. Mudiay sucks, he is not a starter on a good team we should not resign him unles its very favorable. Last thing I want to see is some stupid 4 year 40 million dollar deal

Jmpasq wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

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Wow can't believe he said it, Its obvious but still. Its amazing to me how many Knick fans have fallen for Mudiays empty stats. Mudiay sucks, he is not a starter on a good team we should not resign him unles its very favorable. Last thing I want to see is some stupid 4 year 40 million dollar deal

I always think Mudiay has some of the worst looking highlights of any player. I'm pleased he's having some success, but I don't really want him as our PG next year.

Jmpasq wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

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Wow can't believe he said it, Its obvious but still. Its amazing to me how many Knick fans have fallen for Mudiays empty stats. Mudiay sucks, he is not a starter on a good team we should not resign him unles its very favorable. Last thing I want to see is some stupid 4 year 40 million dollar deal

I am actively trolled by 3-4 people on this board for saying this. The guy is exactly the wrong type of player for the Knicks. Mudiay signing is a mini Melo fiasco waiting to happen. He is atrocious on defense, the article by knicks film school on why Kornet couldn't help the defense much last game as a starter, shows 4-5 sequences where Mudiay gets beat or doesn't help. Apparently he had an "all star" December without playing a lick of defense. Empty stat worshippers want you to appreciate no defense chuckers, otherwise you are a hater. God save us from signing this stat padder.

smackeddog wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

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Wow can't believe he said it, Its obvious but still. Its amazing to me how many Knick fans have fallen for Mudiays empty stats. Mudiay sucks, he is not a starter on a good team we should not resign him unles its very favorable. Last thing I want to see is some stupid 4 year 40 million dollar deal

I always think Mudiay has some of the worst looking highlights of any player. I'm pleased he's having some success, but I don't really want him as our PG next year.

I agree. I really want Rubio or draft Morant. Either would fix the ball movement issue.

Knixkik wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

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Wow can't believe he said it, Its obvious but still. Its amazing to me how many Knick fans have fallen for Mudiays empty stats. Mudiay sucks, he is not a starter on a good team we should not resign him unles its very favorable. Last thing I want to see is some stupid 4 year 40 million dollar deal

I always think Mudiay has some of the worst looking highlights of any player. I'm pleased he's having some success, but I don't really want him as our PG next year.

I agree. I really want Rubio or draft Morant. Either would fix the ball movement issue.

I don't agree with relying on one player to create for all other teammates. We need multiple players cappable if doing so. Rubio or Morant would help but we would also need ball movers coming from the forward and big positions as well. KP hasn't shown yet to be strong at creating for others. Knox has work to do in that department. Either they need to improve in these areas when we get to full strength. Or we would need specialist filled in to cover for this need which is pretty hard to find.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

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Wow can't believe he said it, Its obvious but still. Its amazing to me how many Knick fans have fallen for Mudiays empty stats. Mudiay sucks, he is not a starter on a good team we should not resign him unles its very favorable. Last thing I want to see is some stupid 4 year 40 million dollar deal

I always think Mudiay has some of the worst looking highlights of any player. I'm pleased he's having some success, but I don't really want him as our PG next year.

I agree. I really want Rubio or draft Morant. Either would fix the ball movement issue.

I don't agree with relying on one player to create for all other teammates. We need multiple players cappable if doing so. Rubio or Morant would help but we would also need ball movers coming from the forward and big positions as well. KP hasn't shown yet to be strong at creating for others. Knox has work to do in that department. Either they need to improve in these areas when we get to full strength. Or we would need specialist filled in to cover for this need which is pretty hard to find.

Jokic is an exceptional ball mover taken at pick 41 the year we drafted Cleanthony Early 6 spots before him. Early lasted one whole season in the NBA

In today's league, you don't need just your PG to be a ball mover, look at Fiz's comments, he's talking about team ball movement. If Mudiay was unable to find teammates, he wouldn't be averaging almost 6 assists per game in December.
And by the way, this is with playing with players who do not cut hard.

Players that cut hard or play PNR well in the half court: WholeTeamDot, Hezonja (but so many other bad plays that he doesn't get much playing time), Mitch...that's about it.

Kanter and Vonleh...average at best in that regard, how many times have they been called for moving fouls?
THJr...certified ball hog
Frank and Knox...nope they like to camp out at the arc
Trier... ball hog who I have more confidence in than THJr at least
Kornet...camp out at arc to blaze those 3s but at least he makes them at a good clip when Mudiay finds him

When Mitch comes back, the PNR play should improve even further between him and Mudiay.

If we don't sign a marquee FA, I am ok with Mudiay coming back because his weakness is PNR defense. But with Mitch and KP in the post...this should not be a huge concern.

The upside on offense with him finding teammates at a good clip (albeit some of them can't finish properly) is something that will show up even better next year.

Cartman718 wrote:aint nobody trolling you meloshouldgo...if anything you are trolling with the Mudiay hate. For the posters talking about no ball movement with Mudiay, please provide evidence. He is bad on D, not Kanter or Burke terrible, but still bad.

In today's league, you don't need just your PG to be a ball mover, look at Fiz's comments, he's talking about team ball movement. If Mudiay was unable to find teammates, he wouldn't be averaging almost 6 assists per game in December.
And by the way, this is with playing with players who do not cut hard.

Players that cut hard or play PNR well in the half court: WholeTeamDot, Hezonja (but so many other bad plays that he doesn't get much playing time), Mitch...that's about it.

Kanter and Vonleh...average at best in that regard, how many times have they been called for moving fouls?
THJr...certified ball hog
Frank and Knox...nope they like to camp out at the arc
Trier... ball hog who I have more confidence in than THJr at least
Kornet...camp out at arc to blaze those 3s but at least he makes them at a good clip when Mudiay finds him

When Mitch comes back, the PNR play should improve even further between him and Mudiay.

If we don't sign a marquee FA, I am ok with Mudiay coming back because his weakness is PNR defense. But with Mitch and KP in the post...this should not be a huge concern.

The upside on offense with him finding teammates at a good clip (albeit some of them can't finish properly) is something that will show up even better next year.

Jmpasq wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:aint nobody trolling you meloshouldgo...if anything you are trolling with the Mudiay hate. For the posters talking about no ball movement with Mudiay, please provide evidence. He is bad on D, not Kanter or Burke terrible, but still bad.

In today's league, you don't need just your PG to be a ball mover, look at Fiz's comments, he's talking about team ball movement. If Mudiay was unable to find teammates, he wouldn't be averaging almost 6 assists per game in December.
And by the way, this is with playing with players who do not cut hard.

Players that cut hard or play PNR well in the half court: WholeTeamDot, Hezonja (but so many other bad plays that he doesn't get much playing time), Mitch...that's about it.

Kanter and Vonleh...average at best in that regard, how many times have they been called for moving fouls?
THJr...certified ball hog
Frank and Knox...nope they like to camp out at the arc
Trier... ball hog who I have more confidence in than THJr at least
Kornet...camp out at arc to blaze those 3s but at least he makes them at a good clip when Mudiay finds him

When Mitch comes back, the PNR play should improve even further between him and Mudiay.

If we don't sign a marquee FA, I am ok with Mudiay coming back because his weakness is PNR defense. But with Mitch and KP in the post...this should not be a huge concern.

The upside on offense with him finding teammates at a good clip (albeit some of them can't finish properly) is something that will show up even better next year.

Bring back at what cost? 1 year deals are fine but I'm not proclaiming him as our PG for the next 3-4 years

Mud worked hard to put himself into consideration.
He may be an OK backup PG... but not starter on contending team for sure.
No need to overpay for sure. He is not going anywhere and will take what we will offer.

Cartman718 wrote:aint nobody trolling you meloshouldgo...if anything you are trolling with the Mudiay hate. For the posters talking about no ball movement with Mudiay, please provide evidence. He is bad on D, not Kanter or Burke terrible, but still bad.

In today's league, you don't need just your PG to be a ball mover, look at Fiz's comments, he's talking about team ball movement. If Mudiay was unable to find teammates, he wouldn't be averaging almost 6 assists per game in December.
And by the way, this is with playing with players who do not cut hard.

You are splitting hairs with Mudiay. It's a bullshit way to look at actual personnel because it's looking for specific things to counter/exaggerate/ignore to avoid looking at the overall career arc/skills of a player.

Has Mudiay shown to be able to hit a consistent three point shot at least to league average rates of success for non pivots across his entire career?

No

Has Mudiay shown to be able to consistently play defense at least to league average rates of success for non pivots across his entire career?

No

Has Mudiay shown to be able to consistently maintain elite physical conditioning at least to league average rates of success for non pivots across his entire career?

No

Has Mudiay shown to be able to consistently make good decisions as the primary ball handler tasked to run an efficient NBA offense at least to league average rates of success for non pivots across his entire career?

No

I worded things to stop your bullshit loopholing.

Mudiay offers no 3 And D value in a league that covets/requires it. Can a guard survive without 3 and D value? As a starter, sure, an "Attack Guard", a guy who can penetrate and get to AND FINISH at the rim to such a high rate, it opens up the rest of the offense. But those guards need to be able to drive and kick, which means some actual good decision making is needed.

When you can't do certain things ( hit a three point shot, play defense), you need to offset with something of value that's borderline extreme. In MLB, Ozzie Smith was sort of fast and found a way to hit just enough, but what carried him was his all world defense. But he had to be a defender on an entirely different level to make up for his bat. It can happen, it rarely happens. Nothing Mudiay shows offsets the shit defense and lack of a three point shot.

It's been a solid month for him. Good for him. Good for the team. But it's not going to negate his entire career arc. You'll eventually point out how hard he's pushing. Yes, to get a new contract. But what about the rest of his career when he was clearly not giving much of a shit. I said the same thing about Kanter last year. People said, look how hard he's pushing. Yeah, to get a new contract. And when he's not getting one, or what he wants, what's going to happen? Well, what happened? He's sulking and showing the Fuck All Of You Then bullshit he pulled in Utah and OKC.

What is he going to give you when he only can play 10-12 minutes. When he only gets 6 shot attempts. When his shot isn't falling. When he's not allowed to be ball dominant. You are looking at a players value only through volume. Without context to role and efficiency.

No one hates Mudiay. They would however like him better as a Knick if he could play some defense and hit a fucking three point shot consistently ( feel free to not sample size the last month as if it shapes his entire career narrative, but my guess is you'll keep loopholing this and do it anyway)

A lot of three point shooting, defense and fitness just comes from attrition and hard work. So what does that say about Mudiay?

Yes, we hate him because he won't put down the fries, won't pick up a kettlebell and won't work on his three point shot relentlessly.

Mudiay gave a half hearted blowjob, in exchange you think he deserves an engagement ring. Well, I can see why you defend him, both of your decision making skills seem very aligned.

Cartman718 wrote:aint nobody trolling you meloshouldgo...if anything you are trolling with the Mudiay hate. For the posters talking about no ball movement with Mudiay, please provide evidence. He is bad on D, not Kanter or Burke terrible, but still bad.

In today's league, you don't need just your PG to be a ball mover, look at Fiz's comments, he's talking about team ball movement. If Mudiay was unable to find teammates, he wouldn't be averaging almost 6 assists per game in December.
And by the way, this is with playing with players who do not cut hard.

Players that cut hard or play PNR well in the half court: WholeTeamDot, Hezonja (but so many other bad plays that he doesn't get much playing time), Mitch...that's about it.

Kanter and Vonleh...average at best in that regard, how many times have they been called for moving fouls?
THJr...certified ball hog
Frank and Knox...nope they like to camp out at the arc
Trier... ball hog who I have more confidence in than THJr at least
Kornet...camp out at arc to blaze those 3s but at least he makes them at a good clip when Mudiay finds him

When Mitch comes back, the PNR play should improve even further between him and Mudiay.

If we don't sign a marquee FA, I am ok with Mudiay coming back because his weakness is PNR defense. But with Mitch and KP in the post...this should not be a huge concern.

The upside on offense with him finding teammates at a good clip (albeit some of them can't finish properly) is something that will show up even better next year.

I think I can tell what trolling is, thanks anyways.
Fiz basically admitted that there's no ball movement, ask him for evidence. If you can't tell by watching, that Mudiay doesnt have the IQ, desire or ability to run the offense, I don't know what to tell you. The guy looks to score everytime he touches the ball has no idea what offense we run much less execute plays and his defense is atrocious. He makes other people look bad on D, by failing to rotate and provide weak side help.

We should target guys like Rubio or Rondo whenever possible so our young guards can learn how to actually play the game and run a NBA offense.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

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Wow can't believe he said it, Its obvious but still. Its amazing to me how many Knick fans have fallen for Mudiays empty stats. Mudiay sucks, he is not a starter on a good team we should not resign him unles its very favorable. Last thing I want to see is some stupid 4 year 40 million dollar deal

I am actively trolled by 3-4 people on this board for saying this. The guy is exactly the wrong type of player for the Knicks. Mudiay signing is a mini Melo fiasco waiting to happen. He is atrocious on defense, the article by knicks film school on why Kornet couldn't help the defense much last game as a starter, shows 4-5 sequences where Mudiay gets beat or doesn't help. Apparently he had an "all star" December without playing a lick of defense. Empty stat worshippers want you to appreciate no defense chuckers, otherwise you are a hater. God save us from signing this stat padder.

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

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Wow can't believe he said it, Its obvious but still. Its amazing to me how many Knick fans have fallen for Mudiays empty stats. Mudiay sucks, he is not a starter on a good team we should not resign him unles its very favorable. Last thing I want to see is some stupid 4 year 40 million dollar deal

I am actively trolled by 3-4 people on this board for saying this. The guy is exactly the wrong type of player for the Knicks. Mudiay signing is a mini Melo fiasco waiting to happen. He is atrocious on defense, the article by knicks film school on why Kornet couldn't help the defense much last game as a starter, shows 4-5 sequences where Mudiay gets beat or doesn't help. Apparently he had an "all star" December without playing a lick of defense. Empty stat worshippers want you to appreciate no defense chuckers, otherwise you are a hater. God save us from signing this stat padder.

You are not trolled by anybody. People react when you blow up game threads with irrational hate towards Mudiay and the coach.

Yup, and global warming is a left wing conspiracy.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN/status/1081389433352409088

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Wow can't believe he said it, Its obvious but still. Its amazing to me how many Knick fans have fallen for Mudiays empty stats. Mudiay sucks, he is not a starter on a good team we should not resign him unles its very favorable. Last thing I want to see is some stupid 4 year 40 million dollar deal

I always think Mudiay has some of the worst looking highlights of any player. I'm pleased he's having some success, but I don't really want him as our PG next year.

I agree. I really want Rubio or draft Morant. Either would fix the ball movement issue.

I don't agree with relying on one player to create for all other teammates. We need multiple players cappable if doing so. Rubio or Morant would help but we would also need ball movers coming from the forward and big positions as well. KP hasn't shown yet to be strong at creating for others. Knox has work to do in that department. Either they need to improve in these areas when we get to full strength. Or we would need specialist filled in to cover for this need which is pretty hard to find.

Vonleh is a pretty decent passing big.

TripleThreat wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:aint nobody trolling you meloshouldgo...if anything you are trolling with the Mudiay hate. For the posters talking about no ball movement with Mudiay, please provide evidence. He is bad on D, not Kanter or Burke terrible, but still bad.

In today's league, you don't need just your PG to be a ball mover, look at Fiz's comments, he's talking about team ball movement. If Mudiay was unable to find teammates, he wouldn't be averaging almost 6 assists per game in December.
And by the way, this is with playing with players who do not cut hard.

You are splitting hairs with Mudiay. It's a bullshit way to look at actual personnel because it's looking for specific things to counter/exaggerate/ignore to avoid looking at the overall career arc/skills of a player.

Has Mudiay shown to be able to hit a consistent three point shot at least to league average rates of success for non pivots across his entire career?

No

Has Mudiay shown to be able to consistently play defense at least to league average rates of success for non pivots across his entire career?

No

Has Mudiay shown to be able to consistently maintain elite physical conditioning at least to league average rates of success for non pivots across his entire career?

No

Has Mudiay shown to be able to consistently make good decisions as the primary ball handler tasked to run an efficient NBA offense at least to league average rates of success for non pivots across his entire career?

No

I worded things to stop your bullshit loopholing.

Mudiay offers no 3 And D value in a league that covets/requires it. Can a guard survive without 3 and D value? As a starter, sure, an "Attack Guard", a guy who can penetrate and get to AND FINISH at the rim to such a high rate, it opens up the rest of the offense. But those guards need to be able to drive and kick, which means some actual good decision making is needed.

When you can't do certain things ( hit a three point shot, play defense), you need to offset with something of value that's borderline extreme. In MLB, Ozzie Smith was sort of fast and found a way to hit just enough, but what carried him was his all world defense. But he had to be a defender on an entirely different level to make up for his bat. It can happen, it rarely happens. Nothing Mudiay shows offsets the shit defense and lack of a three point shot.

It's been a solid month for him. Good for him. Good for the team. But it's not going to negate his entire career arc. You'll eventually point out how hard he's pushing. Yes, to get a new contract. But what about the rest of his career when he was clearly not giving much of a shit. I said the same thing about Kanter last year. People said, look how hard he's pushing. Yeah, to get a new contract. And when he's not getting one, or what he wants, what's going to happen? Well, what happened? He's sulking and showing the Fuck All Of You Then bullshit he pulled in Utah and OKC.

What is he going to give you when he only can play 10-12 minutes. When he only gets 6 shot attempts. When his shot isn't falling. When he's not allowed to be ball dominant. You are looking at a players value only through volume. Without context to role and efficiency.

No one hates Mudiay. They would however like him better as a Knick if he could play some defense and hit a fucking three point shot consistently ( feel free to not sample size the last month as if it shapes his entire career narrative, but my guess is you'll keep loopholing this and do it anyway)

A lot of three point shooting, defense and fitness just comes from attrition and hard work. So what does that say about Mudiay?

Yes, we hate him because he won't put down the fries, won't pick up a kettlebell and won't work on his three point shot relentlessly.

Mudiay gave a half hearted blowjob, in exchange you think he deserves an engagement ring. Well, I can see why you defend him, both of your decision making skills seem very aligned.

Maybe, Fizdale wouldn't have this problem, if Fizdale would have stuck with developing one or two of the hundred different lineups he kept putting out on the court.
Fizdale has a line of BS. Also said the reason for his goofy lineups is he's trying to figure out what his players are capable of and when he does, you'll see more consistent lineups. Some NBA insider said he can't make any sense of what he's doing unlike the Hawks who are also young and bad but you can see a plan with their lineups. He talks a great game like trying to get LeBron to talk to KK which I didn't think happened but as they say you can only dazzle them with BS for so long. Maybe the Griz had reason to kick him to the curb a few months after he made national news at a playoff presser when he said "Take that for data", his line of BS had worn thin.

Kanter has never passed. Burke is a gunner. Hezonja is a willing passer but they're often attempts at highlight real (i.e., mostly dumb)

I do not think the criticism applies to Vonleh.

it's as much an indictment on the FO as it is on his holding players accountable. FO knew these guys are contract guys. Indeed if any rehabilitated their careers are reward would be a bigger contract demand. If they had any confidence in their ability to get Mudiay or anyone else "right" they should have done some form of contract extension to lock in a lower price for their taking on the risk. As it stands now, they'll be lucky to get Xmas cards from these guys if they get contract at end of season

also a bit hypocritical of Fizz when he was benching Frank for not gunning enough.

they have to get some winning ways established. I read an article the other day (SI?) where they were saying the current Knicks defense is near the historically worst in points per possession. Think about that. We have been in many blow outs where teams are more interested in milking clock at end than getting more points. We are near the bottom -- as far back as these stats have been kept

So much for accountability on defense and passing