Knicks · The tense second coming of Porzingis (page 1)
His return from injury and how he returns is one of the most paramount events in modern knick history. How, when, and attitude all contribute.
He returns to a new coach and many new teammates. He returns to a team focused on the future and not the present. Might call that “Tank”.
Him playing final 20 games this season and risking injury vs. sitting. Does his return effect the ability to draft a player that might be even greater than him? AKA: he plays, we win and blow the Tank?
There is media rumor that there are “Tensions” because he wants to play and Knicks want to hold him back. We don’t know the cause of that other than what media feeds us or our own speculations. If you don’t like KP, you’ll side with Knicks, and if you love him your worried knicks are fucking it up. After all, Knicks manage to fuck a lot of things up in the past.
Let’s not pretend as children and ignore the business of this. KP is injured and stands to reason a team wants to wait before paying him upwards to $150,000,000. By doing so the knicks can also have $10mm more to spend on a player that can help the team. IF players want to win, this is something KP should want. Knicks can ill afford KP to leave without compensation and control his restricted free agency this summer. They can match and pay him more.
“Respect and ego”. Never does these things help. Is he mad at the knicks because of this? Logic might stand to reason here and its mutually beneficial to have waited. That unless KP and his family thought knicks should have extended him without a thought as if he was not injured. As much as I love KP, I can’t agree with that. His vast potential is one thing but he is anemic and who he was from day was always a durability question and he has not answered with any resounding proof of being able to sustain himself on the court. If the market value proves to be max money then knicks will have to choose this by matching an offer or not. Knicks might be inclined to give him max money but want him to not play to give him the time to further heal (and tank!) If so the money is not an issue.
Logic also dictates that after the last 25 games he does not play and wants to move why hold a grudge? He can’t get those games back and he does not know if another team would have done the same thing?
He wants to play with a contender or he does not want to play in New York. I can respect that. The bright lights and big city are not for everyone. As for playing for a contender I get that. I’m sure Knicks can make a decent deal with Boston but will they want him if he gets hurt or has problems coming back? By that, pay full retail for him and a max contract? They might want to see first before making a substantial investment. Is this why KP wants to play? Is that smart for him? KP does not have Phil anymore to be mad at, nor Hornacek either. He has a coach that has a reputation for being very player friendly. In fact I would guess Fiz was hired with KP in mind. Further in fact this franchise was rebooted with KP in mind as all off season moves were made knowing our star player would not return so fast. This franchise is very different from the one KP skipped his exit meeting with. We have drafted twice and traded Melo. The hard lifting of a rebuild will have been over by the end of this season. If KP is confident of his ability he can see the emerging talent Knox, Frank (Who I think will be just fine in a more system oriented offense with talent), Hardaway (I think he is fine for the money and also better suited to be a 3 or 4th option), a likely top 3 lottery pick, and perhaps an elite talent FA. If KD shares my dream and sees not what is, but what could be then he can be a big part of that.
So what is the basis of the rumors of tension? Lack of communication? Has the Knicks and KP not on the same page as Nalod would think? He a petulant child with a vindictive hissy fit thinking all an be better somewhere else? Has the knicks not shown him proper respect or is he delusionally thiking he deserves more than received? This is what confuses me and were fans start to install their own logic. As I said, I just can’t fathom there would be a wide fissure of miscommunication where everyone is not on the same page unless there are conflicting objectives. WE are talking about multi generational wealth for KP and his family vs. an asset worth over 200 million regarding KP as 23 year old player. I’d think they BOTH want to get it right!
My main concern is can he stay healthy. There is a slight chance he could get his money and then become a bad teammate but I don’t think that will happen.
He wants to win. I get it. He wants to play for a contender. I get it. He’ll want to play with other good players. Knicks are not known to be cheap. New coaching staff new public relations concepts, etc. This team has been remade for going forward.
Nalod wrote:Media does not discuss any reasons for the “tension”. They leave us to speculate. He wants to play. I get it.He would be giving up generational money just to have the chance to leave after next season. Health is the biggest concern. NY media sucks.
He wants to win. I get it. He wants to play for a contender. I get it. He’ll want to play with other good players. Knicks are not known to be cheap. New coaching staff new public relations concepts, etc. This team has been remade for going forward.
CrushAlot wrote:Nalod wrote:Media does not discuss any reasons for the “tension”. They leave us to speculate. He wants to play. I get it.He would be giving up generational money just to have the chance to leave after next season. Health is the biggest concern. NY media sucks.
He wants to win. I get it. He wants to play for a contender. I get it. He’ll want to play with other good players. Knicks are not known to be cheap. New coaching staff new public relations concepts, etc. This team has been remade for going forward.
The knicks have a limited amount of control over KP,meaning all him and his camp have to do is ask for a trade, and the knicks are forced. I know its rare to see a it happen, but when was the last time a players brother was his manager, and have a huge influence on him
Can you live with HOLDING YOUR BREATH every time KP hits the floor, and besides, I don't think KP is a franchise player, he certainly hasn't shown to have the stamina to sustain that level of play. He's needs another star or 2 without a shadow of a doubt, or he'll be overworked and risk more injury, and im sure janis knows this.
knicks1248 wrote:He can’t play anywhere else next year. Are you suggesting he will take 23 mil less so that he can become an unrestricted free agent and then sign for four years and a lot less money somewhere else? I absolutely take that risk. Health concerns are the only worry.CrushAlot wrote:Nalod wrote:Media does not discuss any reasons for the “tension”. They leave us to speculate. He wants to play. I get it.He would be giving up generational money just to have the chance to leave after next season. Health is the biggest concern. NY media sucks.
He wants to win. I get it. He wants to play for a contender. I get it. He’ll want to play with other good players. Knicks are not known to be cheap. New coaching staff new public relations concepts, etc. This team has been remade for going forward.The knicks have a limited amount of control over KP,meaning all him and his camp have to do is ask for a trade, and the knicks are forced. I know its rare to see a it happen, but when was the last time a players brother was his manager, and have a huge influence on him
Can you live with HOLDING YOUR BREATH every time KP hits the floor, and besides, I don't think KP is a franchise player, he certainly hasn't shown to have the stamina to sustain that level of play. He's needs another star or 2 without a shadow of a doubt, or he'll be overworked and risk more injury, and im sure janis knows this.
CrushAlot wrote:Nalod wrote:Media does not discuss any reasons for the “tension”. They leave us to speculate. He wants to play. I get it.He would be giving up generational money just to have the chance to leave after next season. Health is the biggest concern. NY media sucks.
He wants to win. I get it. He wants to play for a contender. I get it. He’ll want to play with other good players. Knicks are not known to be cheap. New coaching staff new public relations concepts, etc. This team has been remade for going forward.
Guy is going to live like a king regardless
I believe he wants to stay and win in ny
If he doesn’t feel he can win here he will leave
not sure if he can even signed anything less like 1-2 year deal with player option?
i mean after watching Patrick McGraw's RFA BS from GS to Cleveland to waivers........ what can't u do?
If he wants to play, Let him play IF HE IS READY BUT restrict minutes
RonRon wrote:He can sign a 2-3year deal with another team with a player option thoughnot sure if he can even signed anything less like 1-2 year deal with player option?
i mean after watching Patrick McGraw's RFA BS from GS to Cleveland to waivers........ what can't u do?
If he wants to play, Let him play IF HE IS READY BUT restrict minutes
He can sign with another team and we can match it. True.
We have not seen a player offered a max deal and not taken it.
KP does things like his hissy fit about not doing sprints. In my mind outdoor sprints are not indoor windsprints on the court. And if your not doing indoor sprints with cutting your not close to returning. That's what Fiz might have meant. I can't speak for either but media is eager to demonstrate KP being suspect in any way as its stressful to readers and evokes emotion. If that emotion is anger, it creates eyeballs.
If KP is all about winning and not money He'll not want to be traded but has to risk going a full season at under 5mm. Qualified offer is not 7.8mil because he has missed half a season already. It is stupid to pass on multi generational wealth. The knicks are positioned to draft and sign free agents going forward along with development of talent. He can stay, be part of something big, get huge money, and establish a career. He can request a trade down the road or go free agent in a few years if Knicks are not fixed.
the team sucks, so that's not interesting to cover
oh look over here, porzingis rehab + uncertainty = theories = story = clicks = more stories = more theorizing etc
If KP is NOT happy, he can screw us with another team that is willing to do so
I do NOT know if it is all NY's media or if KP's camp/brother but it is very toxic
if we somehow get a 7-10th pick, do not sign any B+ or better players, it is very likely KP would prefer his ass out if MAX is not offered
RonRon wrote:point is he is good enough to still sign a 1 and 1 deal or a 2 and 1 deal instead of QOIf KP is NOT happy, he can screw us with another team that is willing to do so
I do NOT know if it is all NY's media or if KP's camp/brother but it is very toxic
if we somehow get a 7-10th pick, do not sign any B+ or better players, it is very likely KP would prefer his ass out if MAX is not offered
First off good to see you back on pages RonRon!
Second its assumed he gets Max from most of us. Knicks have been known to send a guy out and get his best deal and set his market. We can match it. Its fair actually.
KP is not out to "screw us" but he will seek whats best for him. By not extending him I think we were able to go longer. Also have 10mm more in cap space. If winning matters than he should be cognizant to his waiting helps the team be better. This team in the last 18 mos has really been rebuild from the inside out.
Remember when Knicks public relations were slammed for it idiocy? "Kremlin like" was sometimes named. IN November of 2017 they bought in Dan Sabreen to head it up. Scott Perry and Mills would have headed that change.
Look at the front office:
https://www.nba.com/knicks/front-office
Funny, Gaines is still listed as a "consultant".
In any event Knicks are far from the Larry Brown incident. Spree is back in the house and if Dolan and Oak can just behave we might be normal again!!!!
anrst wrote:im not one to blame the media, but this is all 1000pct a media bs creationthe team sucks, so that's not interesting to cover
oh look over here, porzingis rehab + uncertainty = theories = story = clicks = more stories = more theorizing etc
They will keep making them because our fanbase gets sucked in. Not sure why, but we are so predictable as a fanbase when it comes to this stuff.
RonRon wrote:point is he is good enough to still sign a 1 and 1 deal or a 2 and 1 deal instead of QOIf KP is NOT happy, he can screw us with another team that is willing to do so
I do NOT know if it is all NY's media or if KP's camp/brother but it is very toxic
if we somehow get a 7-10th pick, do not sign any B+ or better players, it is very likely KP would prefer his ass out if MAX is not offered
Welcome back. Hope to see you posting more.
Maybe not so tense?
A rumor floated last week that the Knicks prefer for him to sit out the season while Porzingis wants to play, creating tension.According to a source close to the situation, it is an off-base premise. The source said Knicks management wants him back — as long as Porzingis is mentally and physically ready to go.
Nalod asks this question: Could it be a bad thing for the knicks as a sign of good will not put any pressure on the kid and paving the way for him to sit the season as a prerequisite to media who might after a year say "why isn't he playing yet?" Then it becomes about him being soft, protecting his money, etc. This way knicks take the pressure off him and if anything take the hit as being "bad cop". Naturally KP can't text out things that might be seen not as intended to be. His "Hissy fit" might not have been genuinely that. it came off like that.
Nalod wrote:https://nypost.com/2019/01/15/kristaps-p...Maybe not so tense?
A rumor floated last week that the Knicks prefer for him to sit out the season while Porzingis wants to play, creating tension.According to a source close to the situation, it is an off-base premise. The source said Knicks management wants him back — as long as Porzingis is mentally and physically ready to go.
Nalod asks this question: Could it be a bad thing for the knicks as a sign of good will not put any pressure on the kid and paving the way for him to sit the season as a prerequisite to media who might after a year say "why isn't he playing yet?" Then it becomes about him being soft, protecting his money, etc. This way knicks take the pressure off him and if anything take the hit as being "bad cop". Naturally KP can't text out things that might be seen not as intended to be. His "Hissy fit" might not have been genuinely that. it came off like that.
Thanks Nalod and Crush,
It is comforting to being able to read off posters that I still know
Really glad that Nalod gives much more basketball related input
Yeah times have changed, read about Briggs and how times have changed...
i still lurk sometimes and look to catch up to Rumors and topics for Knicks
But i do not have time or patience to watch the any basketball for over 5years already
so no longer have the knowledge to post pages and paragraphs.....
my point about KP is that if in fact these rumors are somewhat true, there could be ways that it can get sour with the Knicks and management
i honestly think CA really messed up KP's way of thinking along with the HERO ball/style of play, the need to be "the man"
if these rumors are just a way to make KP scare Knicks to get the HIGHEST possible contract for KP, that is fine....
however, if these rumors are somewhat true then if a team and KP work together KP can still make a lot of money and leave the Knicks on a 1 and 1 deal or 2 and 1 *player option*
so either 1 year or 2 years
it is partially a question by me too, if any of these such contracts can not go through or unlikely for whatever reason...........
If KP wants to play just limit the minutes and back to backs, no need to piss him off, i feel he already has had a lot of frustrations with the Knicks organization the past few years already
Under the "new regime" of Fiz we just dont need any of it
remember Indiana let Paul George play little by little, it takes time to get back in NBA shape and KP must know where he stands after his year off of the NBA
so he get get an idea of what he needs physically, mentally, and what he may need to work on in the summer
Of course KP is very talented but is he a Center or PF? We still do not know
regarding the DS JR rumors.....
i like Frank but if we can get rid of Hardaways contract, it sounds really good but i would not look to give up any draft picks
i think Frank will be similar to Ariza, once he ages a bit and clicks with the right coach, player, system, it will just spark for him and he will be a solid player
not sure if it will ever happen in NYK currently though....
when i think back about Phils last days on the Knicks........
i think Phil jackson was looking at KINGS starting PG, in DeAaron Fox for some reason when he floated the rumors out for KP and maybe draft Don Mitchell since we were split on Frank and him
He probably wanted either Jae Crowder or Jaylen Brown as well, and Terry Rozier or Smart with Rozier being more likely
CrushAlot wrote:Nalod wrote:Media does not discuss any reasons for the “tension”. They leave us to speculate. He wants to play. I get it.He would be giving up generational money just to have the chance to leave after next season. Health is the biggest concern. NY media sucks.
He wants to win. I get it. He wants to play for a contender. I get it. He’ll want to play with other good players. Knicks are not known to be cheap. New coaching staff new public relations concepts, etc. This team has been remade for going forward.
KP should understand the Knicks want to wait till next year to sign him to extension. Gives Knicks flexibility to bring in more pieces to surround him with. Think he does. He should also understand that rushing back does NO one any good. If he comes back after the All Start break, I hope it is with minimal minutes. So as not to disrupt the tank and risk injury. Hope he does.
HofstraBBall wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Nalod wrote:Media does not discuss any reasons for the “tension”. They leave us to speculate. He wants to play. I get it.He would be giving up generational money just to have the chance to leave after next season. Health is the biggest concern. NY media sucks.
He wants to win. I get it. He wants to play for a contender. I get it. He’ll want to play with other good players. Knicks are not known to be cheap. New coaching staff new public relations concepts, etc. This team has been remade for going forward.KP should understand the Knicks want to wait till next year to sign him to extension. Gives Knicks flexibility to bring in more pieces to surround him with. Think he does. He should also understand that rushing back does NO one any good. If he comes back after the All Start break, I hope it is with minimal minutes. So as not to disrupt the tank and risk injury. Hope he does.
It stands on logic all you say. This is why I don't get that there is a contentious relationship unless KP is a brain dead diva.
Long term, I have concern that KP can stay healthy. Guys above 7'1" seem to have that issue.
Short term, KP needs time to get back to where he was. mid Term he will be as good as before and better...but his injury history must END now.
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Kp will be fine but people need to have patience. He MUST come back this year to work off his rust.Long term, I have concern that KP can stay healthy. Guys above 7'1" seem to have that issue.
Short term, KP needs time to get back to where he was. mid Term he will be as good as before and better...but his injury history must END now.
I agree that he needs 10-15 games this year to work off rust. I have concerns long-term about injury too, but it ultimately comes down to him modifying his game a bit. If he plays more like Dirk, and less above the rim, he will have a much better chance to stay healthy.