Knicks · find new homes for kanter vonleh mudiay burke (page 1)

they all have an upcoming payday. why not ship them for whatever second rounders we can get?

Agreed, and if we can package the better performers (e.g. Vonleh) with Hardaway, even better

Ship then all man...
We need some unknown dudes to dream that they will be future stars.
Otherwise... its so damm boring...

Hard to know if Dallas is looking for a playoff spot.

They just lost Barea. Would they consider Lee and Mudiay for Matthews?

ankurk wrote:they all have an upcoming payday. why not ship them for whatever second rounders we can get?

Vonleh has trade value. IIRC, the Knicks signed him with open cap space, so they don't have his Bird Rights. That's not a terribly huge issue, but it's a factor.

Kanter is only going to be traded in two situations. He's going for an injured player, where the warm body is worth more than a guy who can't play. Or he's a salary match in a four team deal where some team taking in draft picks/young assets needs to take in money to make the money equalize. Zero defender, doesn't space the floor, off the court problems. No rebuilding team wants him naturally/organically. No contender level team has the need/cap situation to absorb him.

Burke and Mudiay have close to no trade value. As throw ins to a larger deal, they offer roster complications. The 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 trade scenarios people throw up have conflict. Does the non Knicks team have 2 to 3 guys they want to cut to take in a volume of players? You need to take the player into your roster before you can actually cut him. The other issue is both make less than the "Cash Allotment" each team is given annually. Other teams would rather take the cash to equalize the salary matching than take Burke or Mudiay. Burke has zero trade value. Mudiay might have some to a team gutted with injuries. A contender level team would shop first though with buyouts ( Since the league pays for the Veterans Minimum Exception, it's also a cash savings though not a cap savings)

2.4 versus 4.3 for Mudiay might not seem a ton, but for a team cap locked and in the tax zone, that's actually huge. That could be the difference in getting a 2nd round pick another year of team control versus not.

We see zero interest for any of Knicks players so any trades are unlikely.
We can get invigilated in some technical exchanges between multiple teams but nothing significant.
Everything we do not need will expire anyway this year and next year so why brother?

arkrud wrote:We see zero interest for any of Knicks players so any trades are unlikely.
We can get invigilated in some technical exchanges between multiple teams but nothing significant.
Everything we do not need will expire anyway this year and next year so why brother?

We see Zero interest? How? Because its not “reported”??
Truth is there is little value in the expiring and thats true. We can get angry because we think FO is sleeping but teams won’t blow assets to get something they can get for free.
There need be a market for talent to extract value. SAC might want Enes but if Steven Adam’s gets hurt and his continuence is doubtful and perhaps Thunder knows and trusts Enes to some extent then they will be to bid for him vs. SAC. But if the market is thin then you do the player a favor all things being equal. Our objectives are to not put any salary on the books.

Nalod wrote:

arkrud wrote:We see zero interest for any of Knicks players so any trades are unlikely.
We can get invigilated in some technical exchanges between multiple teams but nothing significant.
Everything we do not need will expire anyway this year and next year so why brother?

We see Zero interest? How? Because its not “reported”??
Truth is there is little value in the expiring and thats true. We can get angry because we think FO is sleeping but teams won’t blow assets to get something they can get for free.
There need be a market for talent to extract value. SAC might want Enes but if Steven Adam’s gets hurt and his continuence is doubtful and perhaps Thunder knows and trusts Enes to some extent then they will be to bid for him vs. SAC. But if the market is thin then you do the player a favor all things being equal. Our objectives are to not put any salary on the books.

I doubt Spurs will even consider him. Pop will never play him more that one defensive possession.
No rebuilding team need him and no contender need him.
The Z-Bo swap was kind of the only possibility but even this never materialize. So Jabary Parker rumor.
Other teams feel we will have to give up assets to get read of Kantor but why we would for expiring.
If we never get anything going after trade deadline he will be waved with some discount if his agent will find any employer.
If not he should warm the bench and feel in in case we have no bodies to play at all. Which is already the case.

arkrud wrote:

Nalod wrote:

arkrud wrote:We see zero interest for any of Knicks players so any trades are unlikely.
We can get invigilated in some technical exchanges between multiple teams but nothing significant.
Everything we do not need will expire anyway this year and next year so why brother?

We see Zero interest? How? Because its not “reported”??
Truth is there is little value in the expiring and thats true. We can get angry because we think FO is sleeping but teams won’t blow assets to get something they can get for free.
There need be a market for talent to extract value. SAC might want Enes but if Steven Adam’s gets hurt and his continuence is doubtful and perhaps Thunder knows and trusts Enes to some extent then they will be to bid for him vs. SAC. But if the market is thin then you do the player a favor all things being equal. Our objectives are to not put any salary on the books.

I doubt Spurs will even consider him. Pop will never play him more that one defensive possession.
No rebuilding team need him and no contender need him.
The Z-Bo swap was kind of the only possibility but even this never materialize. So Jabary Parker rumor.
Other teams feel we will have to give up assets to get read of Kantor but why we would for expiring.
If we never get anything going after trade deadline he will be waved with some discount if his agent will find any employer.
If not he should warm the bench and feel in in case we have no bodies to play at all. Which is already the case.

All I did was paint a hypothetical situation where he would have value. Not saying that is going to happen or a prediction. Adams plays for the Thunder not the spurs and Enes played for OKC so he knows the system under Donovan. That give his more value to a team in a bind. They are not at this moment. Just hypothetical. You can't agree or disagree unless that condition existed. I don't expect a bag of beans for him in the current market. But come close to trade dead line and an injury occurs he be a stop gap. MAYBE. For a low 2nd round pick a team might want to use him as a viable back up in a bad situation. That's all. If not, I agree no team will give up anyting for him. Spurs and most teams have a body in the Dleague that could suffice without paying a price.
GS won with Zsa Zsa. Anything is possible.

I think that the Knicks have to send some of these guys out, but as of right now, I would probably keep Mudiay and Vonleh assuming the deals are fair

Both Mudiay and Vonleh look like late bloomers to me, and they are both former lotto picks. I like the diea of adding as many lotto picks as possible. I know everyone wants the draft night experience or whatever, but I'm willing to be both of these guys are better enxt year, and even better the year after. It's not the same as signong Amar'e or something like that... and I definitely think the strategy of "cleaning house" for the 68th time is not the best idea. Finding eight or nine guys that could be here for the next five seasons seems like a far better plan to me, especially when those guys will grow with our future picks

SupremeCommander wrote:I think that the Knicks have to send some of these guys out, but as of right now, I would probably keep Mudiay and Vonleh assuming the deals are fair

Both Mudiay and Vonleh look like late bloomers to me, and they are both former lotto picks. I like the diea of adding as many lotto picks as possible. I know everyone wants the draft night experience or whatever, but I'm willing to be both of these guys are better enxt year, and even better the year after. It's not the same as signong Amar'e or something like that... and I definitely think the strategy of "cleaning house" for the 68th time is not the best idea. Finding eight or nine guys that could be here for the next five seasons seems like a far better plan to me, especially when those guys will grow with our future picks

The right price is the key. I would also retain both.
Worth time to worth Von is a quality backup big and Mud can be end of the bench filler.
And why FO will try to get read of them unless they will be asked to be included in some trade we really have to do.
But this is very unlikely so I see them being back for short cap friendly deals.

Nalod wrote:

arkrud wrote:We see zero interest for any of Knicks players so any trades are unlikely.
We can get invigilated in some technical exchanges between multiple teams but nothing significant.
Everything we do not need will expire anyway this year and next year so why brother?

We see Zero interest? How? Because its not “reported”??
Truth is there is little value in the expiring and thats true. We can get angry because we think FO is sleeping but teams won’t blow assets to get something they can get for free.
There need be a market for talent to extract value. SAC might want Enes but if Steven Adam’s gets hurt and his continuence is doubtful and perhaps Thunder knows and trusts Enes to some extent then they will be to bid for him vs. SAC. But if the market is thin then you do the player a favor all things being equal. Our objectives are to not put any salary on the books.

Kanter does not defend the rim. He is one of the worst defensive pivots in the modern game. He does not space the floor. He is a black hole on offense. He is likely the very worst big man against the pick and roll in the entire league and has been so for probably the last five seasons. He bitches and moans to the press. He has off the court problems. He's even getting death threats. He has a large cap hold.

No rebuilding team will have any need for him. The only way he ends up on a team as such is in a 3-4 team huge trade where he's a salary match. Any contender level team is generally hard up against the cap. Is Kanter better than whatever they'd have to shed to get him?

Here's the thing with Kanter that forms the litmus of his value. HE'S WORTH MORE INJURED.

As an expiring contract, if he was injured the rest of the year, he'd at least garner the Disabled Player Exception, but that expires tonight at midnight PST.

Contender level teams will shop for buyouts first.

Rebuilding teams will want to give minutes to younger players/recently drafted dudes/UDFA types/G league types.

While a team might have injuries, they are still liable from the CASH HIT side of the equation to pay the remaining proration of his salary. For a team deep in the tax and repeater tax zone, do they want to spend 9ish million on a bitching and moaning zero defense no floor spacing turnstile who will go to war on social media and risk every player on that roster getting nailed in some bizarre ass firefight crossfire? Or get a buyout candidate, where the league pays for that salary via the Veterans Minimum Exception?

OK here is the reality of a pro sports franchise - The money has to come from somewhere.

Even a CASH RICH team has financial limits and constraints. The most open case was David Kahn wanting to fire Rambis, he needed to find the money to buy out Rambis without increasing the teams overall cash hit.

A team can go for Kanter and pay the 9ish million difference. They just have to do things like fire people. Do you need three janitors at X time? Maybe we can get by with two of them. You know that outreach program for kids, well it's good PR, but do you really need that? How about stipends for interns? Maybe the team is bringing in a nutritionist on top of their regular staff, maybe that person has to go. People who work cold calls to sell tickets?

Every time a team generates a CASH HIT, it has to come from somewhere. A team that could absorb Kanter's salary easily has no need for him, they definitely don't need his cash hit implied. Any team who can't absorb it easily have players already , that would form the salary match, where they offer more value of some kind. At minimum, if equalized, they'd likely won't bring the off the court bullshit.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tra...

and houston's first rounder. Capela down - vonleh can fit that role nicely

arkrud wrote:We see zero interest for any of Knicks players so any trades are unlikely.
We can get invigilated in some technical exchanges between multiple teams but nothing significant.
Everything we do not need will expire anyway this year and next year so why brother?

Volkurnov ( The Athletic) reported weeks ago that teams were contacting the Knicks about Kanter. Woj reported the Knicks and Kings were exploring a Kanter trade. Some sites have reported that the Sixers are interested in Vonleh and might trade this year's 1st for him. I think there is a good chance Kanter is traded.

Youre assuming this is an easy thing to do.

Not so sure about Vonleh, and if we trade Mudiay who's gonna run the point?

We'd have to make a trade, and we probably have to anyway if we don't draft a PG as he could be here for that next year.

The Knicks many changes in the starting-lineups and game-rotation in the 43 games played has never gave any Knick player enough time for players to learn to compliment their teammates.
Fizdale's clueless type of coaching/substitution has made no KEEPER-player on the roster.
In the offseason SLG I watched the trio of Trier/Knox/and MitchRob learn to compliment and improve each other performance game after game. I have not seen two Knick players compliment or improve each other performance in Fizdale's 43 game rotation.

I agree with the principle -- not sure how likely it is.

As in any trade you have to give to get and I think VOnleh offers the most value (and would pain me the most if he left). The other guys move under The Greater Fool theory (e.g.,looked at Enes offensive stats, or Mudiay's new EFG% -- don't look at the rest of their game)

Seems like every season we have a player requesting a trade..Kanter is definitely right, play me or trade me, dude is force to sit in a contract yr..wow...you go to a guy and straight lie to him telling him your going to play him (start him) and bench him the entire game..

This is just bad from A FA stand point..

first it was Jennings, then Melo, then Kuz, then willy, then noah, now kanter ..

knicks1248 wrote:Seems like every season we have a player requesting a trade..Kanter is definitely right, play me or trade me, dude is force to sit in a contract yr..wow...you go to a guy and straight lie to him telling him your going to play him (start him) and bench him the entire game..

This is just bad from A FA stand point..

first it was Jennings, then Melo, then Kuz, then willy, then noah, now kanter ..

all those guys did nothing when we did trade them so maybe we werent the problem.

Keep Vonleh because he can be a great fit next to KP next year if we don't land a big fish. Everyone else can go.

I want Vonley back next year