Brandon Robinson
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@ScoopB
6h6 hours ago
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Dennis Smith Jr. trade rumors: Knicks and Mavs have discussed a Smith Jr. and Wes Matthews swap in exchange for Tim Hardaway, Jr. & Frank Ntilikina.
Matthews contract is expiring this year.
Sounds made up. Neither team would go for it. Last thing we need is another ball hog. We already get no assists. Is it possible to have 0 assists in a game?
nyk2017 wrote:Sounds made up. Neither team would go for it. Last thing we need is another ball hog. We already get no assists. Is it possible to have 0 assists in a game?
And who's gonna play the D? Surely not D Smith. Rumor probably started by Cuban. He'd have his perfect back court with Donic and Frank. No thanks.
I'm surprised by the push back from this trade because its a huge win for the Knicks. I will preface this by saying no chance in hell Dallas would ever make this trade. However getting an expiring contract for TIm Hardaway Jr. is worth an asset. So even if you consider Frank better than Dennis Smith Jr. its still the cost of doing business. The Knicks getting back Dennis Smith Jr. makes the trade sweeter because he is still movable in a seperate deal.
Jmpasq wrote:I'm surprised by the push back from this trade because its a huge win for the Knicks. I will preface this by saying no chance in hell Dallas would ever make this trade. However getting an expiring contract for TIm Hardaway Jr. is worth an asset. So even if you consider Frank better than Dennis Smith Jr. its still the cost of doing business. The Knicks getting back Dennis Smith Jr. makes the trade sweeter because he is still movable in a seperate deal.
Unless you believe we will need that 18 mil in space, dealing hardaway for space is not a win. In a role where he isn’t asked to be #1 option, he’s a high level contributor. I personally wouldn’t do that trade. I don’t want to deal hardaway for space unless we have a player lined up during free agency who we need that space for that’s clearly better.
TripleThreat wrote:Knixkik wrote:Jmpasq wrote:I'm surprised by the push back from this trade because its a huge win for the Knicks. I will preface this by saying no chance in hell Dallas would ever make this trade. However getting an expiring contract for TIm Hardaway Jr. is worth an asset. So even if you consider Frank better than Dennis Smith Jr. its still the cost of doing business. The Knicks getting back Dennis Smith Jr. makes the trade sweeter because he is still movable in a seperate deal.
Unless you believe we will need that 18 mil in space, dealing hardaway for space is not a win. In a role where he isn’t asked to be #1 option, he’s a high level contributor. I personally wouldn’t do that trade. I don’t want to deal hardaway for space unless we have a player lined up during free agency who we need that space for that’s clearly better.
If the Knicks get offered this deal, they should take it.
Even if there is no FA specific signing associated with open money, it would still approximate value. THJr can have a few big games, but he's very inconsistent. Also the Knicks just can't afford to have a guy who can't defend and can't truly create his own shot at will. I suppose the argument there could be made against DSJr. The difference is THJr will never be a franchise player. DSJr at least has the raw talent base to be one.
Dallas would also want a pick too. This would be the real problem. A mid tier first round pick would value out at about one year of THJr's AAV. So Dallas would take the one year AAV hit on THJr for the difference in Frank N, whom they are rumored to like, and DSJr, who they'd rather see gone.
I struggle to see either side making this deal. Involving Kanter instead of THJr would make some difference, but I don't see Dallas doing that either.
Actually, I agree with this. Dallas would be crazy to do it.
Moving THjr wouldn't be horrible. He is a halfway decent player, and as others said- as a third tier option, could be more efficient than he has been.
I haven't watched any Maverick games - so, looking at the stats, DSjr seems to have taken some positive steps - improved shooting, while also seemingly taken some back. Still an awful defender.
We need talent and we need cap space. I can see the value for both sides, and the downsides as well.
toss up for sure.
I don't know what to think about this.
This would be a move to free up cap space for the summer. I like Frank more then DSJ but we are (1) auditioning points and (2) need scorers
The only way to win this deal though is to sign someone better than THJ. I've seen UFA enough times to know it's damned hard to get an even a B lister to show up, so I don't know if I like the strategy
I never saw THjr as a franchise player. He is not paid as one either. DSmith back, knee are all suspect. Knickix bring up a good point that we'd have to have a hell of a line on KD to do that.
Im not too up on Mav's roster but is that who they want paired with Luka?
Then it becomes about THjr being more valuable on a better team with talented players?
Dennis smith that good? Can he play starter minutes and not fall apart?
I see the attraction as a fan to trade frank. Some fans have hope, others see a player as is and static.
Nalod has hope. No evidence. Kid reminds me of Ariza. Good instincts and needs time. Solid potential. Dennis Johnson, Igudala, Reezy, etc. Kind of player you need on championship teams.
Not everyone has to be a star.
Why would the Knicks want DSmith Jr? He is not that good. He plays no D and does not pass.
Shipping out Hardaway makes sense and should be done if possible. Dotson and Trier can take over.
nyk2017 wrote:Sounds made up. Neither team would go for it. Last thing we need is another ball hog. We already get no assists. Is it possible to have 0 assists in a game?
Love how guys just go with the crowd breakdown of a player without checking stats or watching a game. How many Dallas games did you watch last year? Fact is Smith averaged over 5 dimes per game. Most games he looked to pass first and had good play making attributes. Yes he needs to work on his game but think he has shown signs he can be special. Thought he or Mitchell should have been our pick. Unfortunately, Frank is proving me right and playing like just another role player off the bench.
With that said..... don't think the Knicks should do this deal. Yes it would be great to get Timmy off the books and have at least a chance of getting a high tier free agent. Although of course we all know the success rate of the Knicks to do that. However, its not like we are giving up a player in Timmy that cannot be replaced with another mid level scoring talent. I like Timmy, never thought we should have traded him for scraps but think his contract is just too high for his skill set. The problem I have with this deal is giving up Frank for a player that is obviously not needed in Dallas. Obviously due to the ROY and potential replacement for Dirk in Doncic. Dallas clearly has less use for Smith since Doncic plays the Power Point role well. It will also help Dallas to get another 3pt. specialist or defensive wing to compliment him. Smith has also been sidelined due to his back which should be a buyers advantage. As for Frank, have said before that I don't believe in giving up on your draft picks so early. Think we can also build his value up from here. As he has not done much to do so this year.
I would prefer to throw in one of our over achievers. Maybe Dotson or Burke. But don't think that's gonna get the deal done. Wil be interesting to see how the Knicks FO plays this. My guess is this is just more click bait.
A deal of Hardaway, Kanter, & Mudiay for Matthews, Smith, & Powell is what I would initially offer.
TLover wrote:A deal of Hardaway, Kanter, & Mudiay for Matthews, Smith, & Powell is what I would initially offer.
Sheeeit. That would be highway robbery. Powell is a 6'11' energizer bunny. Get it done.
THJ is a better fit with DSJ and knox, athletic run and gun type players.
then in the off season my realistic targets would be
Nikola Vucevic
khris middlton
terry rozier
my 4 draft choices would be
zion
Ja morent
barret
cam reddish
You don't really have to make a move on THJ because there's plenty of teams with cap space that could absorb THJ contract if you need to create more room..
actually I could see Carlisle pushing this deal, and THJ and Frank N would thrive. Timmy would play 2 where he would draw a lot of fouls and be hitting transition 3s. Frank would get back to pg where his length is an advantage (makes no sense to play him at 2 or 3 where his length is mitigated), and he would not be expected to be some dynamic playmaker. You'd have 4 players roughly the same size plus Deandre manning the middle
Knicks get another reboot with an expiring contract and some position flexibility. THJ at SF is in tension with Knox playing there. THJ can play 2 here
DSJ is a ball hog but that's what Fizz wants anyway because he doesn't have an offensive plan anyway
FO wants it because it keeps them employed another year: you're supposed to lose when you rebuild and we're masters at losing
Having said all of that, if we do it I'm canceling League Pass and taking a back seat on this team until the current dumpster fire settles out (and hopefully KP is still here at that time but I'm not counting on it)
knicks1248 wrote:THJ is a better fit with DSJ and knox, athletic run and gun type players. then in the off season my realistic targets would be
Nikola Vucevic
khris middlton
terry rozier
my 4 draft choices would be
zion
Ja morent
barret
cam reddish
You don't really have to make a move on THJ because there's plenty of teams with cap space that could absorb THJ contract if you need to create more room..
If you trade Hardaway you get closer to signing KD and Possibly Rozier. He is not that high on my scope but then if Timmy got 18mm, why shouldn't Rozier? Problem is the value. He plays on a really good team. If Hardaway played on the Celtics and was not beaten up from being our no. 1 option might he also be seen as attractive? See where im going? Over valuing others until they become a knick.
I'll take Smith as he can be one of our new reclamation projects to "get him right" but its no shock that I would not give up Frank. There is a long list of others they can have. Im irrationally a fan of our rookies. They are "indigenous" knicks and we have had few of them over the years.
As for Rainman's 4 draft picks it reads like a mock of the top 4. Can't disagree.
Vocevic next to KP? Interesting. I thought Mitch is the future. I suppose at the right price he can fade to back up in time. That's where is is heading. Middleton? Not sure what his price is but also at the PF were does that put KP? At the 5? Where is knox at 6-9 and growing? If at the 3 for now?
Also if you draft Zion or Barrett, were do they play? Reddish a bonafide 2 or eventual 3?
Way to early to start this but im long on the theme of pick the best player available. That keeps the water murky for some time. Draft is just days past the end of the finals. Winter is here.
Smith is very talented but I would pass - little defense and he's still trying to establish "his" game like many young players do. Don't we have enough young guys trying to find their games - Trier, Knox, Burke, Dotson, Mudiay, etc... We don't need another guy who needs the ball in his hands that much - we need someone who will get the ball to Trier, Knox, Vonleh and make the game easier when KP returns. We need an experienced stable point guard that thinks pass-first. I previously said we need Rubio if he is available, but we still need this type of player even if he isn't available. Ideally a veteran (not super old) that can provide stability and leadership. Actually impressed with how Mud has found his game, but he is inexperienced and would do best as a combo guard off the bench. I would consider the deal if we re-routed DSJr to a different team.
I roll with Frank and I'm not very impressed with DSJ's game. He needs the ball alot to be in effective. That can work if you have high efficiency, but DSJ doesn't have that. I never saw those Steve Francis comparisons as compliments. All that said, I'd do this trade to clear THJs contract. He's not the SG we need or deserve. He'd be great as third, probably fourth option on a title team. Here, he's misplaced and he sucks up valuable salary cap space. I don't trust the source who tweeted this rumor, but I would definitely consider this move.
Who besides fans has said THjr contract is awful? Im not saying I am happy with his play but as I have said many times its not on him to carry the team. I think he would benefit from being on a better team. Dumb statement, what player isn't?
Triple makes a good point and does emphasize "IF". That is a logical scenario.
Nalod offers anyone not named Knox, Frank or KP to dallas with THjr's contract.
