Knicks · ALL IN FOR AD (page 4)

Jmpasq wrote:i would love to send KP and his brother out of NY. Go play where no one gives a crap. You can go turn into Nuric. Guy demanding the direction of the franchise 2 years in the league. No other player has acted like that much of an asshat

Yeah, I have soured on him too. Too much diva acting for what he has accomplished. At this point, I'd even trade him for Lauri Markkanen, who pretty much gives you the same as KP, only without the drama.

Never going to happen, which isn't a bad thing (I have fears of the Melo trade all over again).

Just out of interest, and assuming we could shift Lee in a separate deal, what would be the better trade, one centred around KP, or one centred around Knox and this years first?

So: KP+Tim Jr and whatever fo AD, then sign Irving in the offseason, giving you a team of:

C-AD
PF- whoever (maybe Zion if we got the first pick)
SF- Knox
SG- whoever (again maybe a player we draft)
PG- Irving

or a trade centred around Knox, this years first and Tim Jr or whatever salary, leaving you with:

C- AD
PF- KP
SF- maybe sign KD in the offseason
SG- whoever (Trier, Dotson)
PG- Mud/Frank

smackeddog wrote:Never going to happen, which isn't a bad thing (I have fears of the Melo trade all over again).

Just out of interest, and assuming we could shift Lee in a separate deal, what would be the better trade, one centred around KP, or one centred around Knox and this years first?

So: KP+Tim Jr and whatever fo AD, then sign Irving in the offseason, giving you a team of:

C-AD
PF- whoever (maybe Zion if we got the first pick)
SF- Knox
SG- whoever (again maybe a player we draft)
PG- Irving

or a trade centred around Knox, this years first and Tim Jr or whatever salary, leaving you with:

C- AD
PF- KP
SF- maybe sign KD in the offseason
SG- whoever (Trier, Dotson)
PG- Mud/Frank

As the Knicks, if you can get AD without giving up a high first round pick, while keeping cap space for a max free agent this summer, you do it, though I do not think NOLA will. AD is a far superior centerpiece than KP. He scores like a lot more, rebounds a lot more, is a better and more willing passer, similar shotblocker. He may not have the same 3pt proficiency, but shoots a better effective percentage overall.
And this summer is when our centerpieces must get set, with max money going to KP, we will not have cap room for the next 4-5 years anyway.
I doubt KP and AD would mesh well on the same team. See the AD+Cousins experiment.

Man this could really really screw us. Even if we don't trade for AD. Picture this: we offer KP and filler( because two of them on the same team is not balanced), the Pels turn it down and wait for the summer to get that Celtics offer, word becomes public that we offered KP in a trade , KP gets upset and leaves in free agency. Now THAT would suck!

SupremeCommander wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Uptown wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Nalod wrote:

EnySpree wrote:AD only makes 24 million... this is not a Melo situation. We don't have to trade KP and the 1st together. We offer the 1st, Timmy, Mitch and Frank and that's it.... we don't have to do anything else. If they don't like that then take the bullshit deal the Lakers are gonna give them.

Our return? We get AD and KP together... we still have Knox.... we still have cap space to sign a point guard, maybe Rubio for instance. Then we start Trier or Dotson at the 2. So, AD, KP, Knox, Rubio and Trier.... that's not worth the ride?

If not we walk away and start the course. I see alot of anxiety here. Chill

That's a good take too. Lakers can offer some mix of players but NONE has the upside that KP has.
Pels like most teams need a bankable star. Thus they might be more drawn to KP as a center piece.
In my dream fantasy I have KP and Hardaway for AD. Naturally AD will resign. Since he stated he won't sign extension he will be traded. Question is does AD approve a NY deal? He wants to go to a contender which neither LA or NY is.
Now if Durant or Kyrie are in play and we get some of that, well there is now a host of possibilities including Trading Knox if need be.
Chips need three stars.
After months of embattlement with Rainman over the validity of Frank I have lost all objectivity to include him in any deal. Teams win championships with players like that. Players that play defense and are unselfish. If his value is as reported not so high, so why trade him??

I agree that it is a good take. I personally think that if the Knicks are somewhat patient, the best offer the Pelicans could get is something like our pick, THJ, and Frank. I don't really see another team beating that. If you want to include another young asset in case of emergency, fine, but I can't see another team topping that offer, especially when our pick could very well be Zion

You cant be serious...The pick is valuable, obviously, THJ and Frank dont have much value at all...The Celtics can put together a much better package than that. They own a top ten pick plus they can trade Jalen Brown who is a much better player/prospect than Frank or THJ

Celtics can blow them away if they wanted to. They should

The Celtics literally cannot make an offer by league rules. I am somewhat serious uptown. The Knicks pick will get a building block. Maybe the Knicks have to include Robinson or something. But I think it's insane that people want to include Knox, KP, and the pick. I actually think what the Knicks have versus the field is enticing

Not right now they can't but in the off-season they can.

Cartman718 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

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Lol you are quoting your own tweets now?

Saves me the trouble of repeating myself.... besides my opinion is better than any beat writer. For instance Bleacher reports AD trade idea is trash. Bondy's son is a p.o.s.... so is Berman and some of the rest of the beat guys. I'd rather hear from fans

TLover wrote:My attempt at an Anthony Davis trade without KP.

Our 2019 1st round pick (protected for only #1 overall)
2021 #1 pick (top 5 protected)
Kevin Knox
Frank Ntlinkina
Mitchell Robinson
Tim Hardaway Jr

For

Anthony Davis & fillers

Drop the fillers... no reason to offer a future 1st or Knox.... fuck that

I think this trade is bullsh.... Knicks need act smart! Definitely not to give up: KP, Knox, Trier and Robinson. This players are untouchable!
If a Pelicans wants KP in the trade, then Perry need to tell them: go to hell and no deal!
The only option I see to trade for AD: this years pick + THJ + Kornet + Mudiay (and if pelicans want, some one future first round pick!) That would be enough!
Then sign Durnat.

Knicks possible roster after this trade:
C - AD / Robinson
PF - KP / Vonleh
SF - KD / Knox
SG - Trier / Dotson
PG - Ntilikina / Burke (you might try to get Rubbio, trade away Burke)

We are spinning ourselves into a frenzy. Media speculates way too much.
Fans are turning on KP and he has done nothing in a very long time to warrant this hate. He posted a picture of him sprinting and got called out for it.

Rental. Teams don’t do deals unless they have a commitment the player will resign. So lets stop the intrigue of stupidity. Regarding the “Starphuch Meloizonation” we have to assume Dolan didn’t think much or listen to his people in pursuit but this crew will. If not, shame on us and them. But I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt.
Have they deserved it? I can’t hold this FO responsible for 20 years of neglect.

Fiz is appropriate to say nothing. There should be no response.
Lebron is a driving force that delivers. You might not like him for it and he don’t care.
If Davis is hell bent on Lakers thats his choice. My assumption is League will insist they pay a fair price as they might have tampered in some fashion. Lakers core of Kuzma, INgram and Ball. None even an allstar. Two will have to go plus pics.

Stay the course. Keep KP, Knox, Frank, Trier, Mitch and the pick. Keep building a young talented team.

AD will stifle the rebuild just like trading for Melo did. If he wants to come in a year as a FA then consider him.

AD with a great PG has not gone past the first round. He is not the end of NY's problems. Great talent but he is also injury prone.

LegendD wrote:I think this trade is bullsh.... Knicks need act smart!

That's the key with all this... this is all media reported stuff. Ther knicks been driving what they are supposed to do since steve and Perry took over together. Nothing to worry about

For us fans it's fun to talk but we need to recognize whos leading us. It's not Dolan and the yes men anymore

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ekstarks94 wrote:

Vmart wrote:We should not trade for him. It will leave the Knicks in a Melo situation. We should wait for his free agency.

KP, AD, Zion, Hardaway and Ntlikina. Would win some games. Or we can complete deplete the roster.

AD is "NOT" making it to free agency...

please explain

KD took that route. OKC got nothing; GS was stronger for it

If AD is serious about winning, he may take a look around and see where he fits for young rosters where he could still be The Man. As much as we stink, KP and a top 3 pick is going to seem attractive to him. He is going to live like a king regardless of where he goes. Depends what he wants

My only hesitation on fully believing the FA option, is the public demand for a trade to a contender. (Then again are they any contenders to GS?)

EnySpree wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC/status/1089903326773293057?s=09

Click here to view the Tweet

Lol you are quoting your own tweets now?

Saves me the trouble of repeating myself.... besides my opinion is better than any beat writer. For instance Bleacher reports AD trade idea is trash. Bondy's son is a p.o.s.... so is Berman and some of the rest of the beat guys. I'd rather hear from fans

You are 100% right about that. Never liked Bondy...he's been hating since the mid 90s...in multiple sports. The Shrek...nuff said.

As far as AD trade idea being trash...the question that FO has to ask themselves is that after preaching patience to the fans and talking about not giving draft picks and treasuring them like gold, would they suddenly pivot from that?

Let's assume for the moment that they won't.
In that case, we are talking about a package most certainly involving eastern conference rookie of December Knox. Hardaway...? we should be so lucky. At this point, Lee has more value than him.

But wouldn't that be easily beat by Boston whose players have actually done something in the playoffs.
Lee is the only player coming to mind that has good playoff experience which is value to a young team, but that was as a journeyman.

If Boston puts together a package around Jaylen Brown, Smart and Rozier + picks...can the Knicks top that? We dont even know yet where the Knicks 2019 pick is going to land. And especially if we successfully trade for AD and have KP come back lets say end of Feb...that pick will not be a top 3 pick.

I think this is why Bleacher Report and/or others may be saying that Knicks trade idea is/may be trash.
AD wants to go to a team that will win. Any trade idea involving KP puts him in the same position as Pelicans current situation...can't win big.

People write here as if the Melo trade was this unmitigated disaster. But it is totally irrelevant here.First, the Melo trade was not as lopsided as people make it out to be. Judging by their subsequent careers, the core of Mozgov, Gallo, Chandler and Felton would have done jack. Certainly no better than the Melo teams we had after that, which underachieved because of an early decline of Amare, and because we could not get a quality PG who could last a whole season. Here as well we can afford to lose marginal talents like Timmy. Second, unlike with Melo, we will not get a chance to just sign a player of AD's caliber after this summer, we will be capped out once we sign an FA and KP.
AD is vastly superior to KP. If you get a chance to add him, plus a Kawhi or a Klay via FA, and then a third star via the 2019 draft pick or by trading this pick for a great PG like Jrue, you do it. All this provided you do not also trade our cheap youngsters.

Chandler wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

Vmart wrote:We should not trade for him. It will leave the Knicks in a Melo situation. We should wait for his free agency.

KP, AD, Zion, Hardaway and Ntlikina. Would win some games. Or we can complete deplete the roster.

AD is "NOT" making it to free agency...

please explain

KD took that route. OKC got nothing; GS was stronger for it

If AD is serious about winning, he may take a look around and see where he fits for young rosters where he could still be The Man. As much as we stink, KP and a top 3 pick is going to seem attractive to him. He is going to live like a king regardless of where he goes. Depends what he wants

My only hesitation on fully believing the FA option, is the public demand for a trade to a contender. (Then again are they any contenders to GS?)

My thought process on this:
The only way NO can extract maximum assets is if they trade him to a place that he will sign a long term deal. I do not think any team that will rent AD is throwing multiple picks and young players..so I do not think he will make free agency.

Durant is different....OKC chose not to trade him and Durant did not let them know that he was not returning...if he did...OKC F'ed up.....but they quickly recovered thru smart mgmt getting PG...

AD is serious about winning but lets not kid ourselves here...he still wants to get paid...he is turning down $240 mill super max....you are not then turning around and signing for half of that...

He also wants a big market...that eliminates half the league...also when a lot of teams go thru FA this year...and sign their own players....Philly w/ Butler, Kawhi w/Tor or the Clips, us and KP's max deal and whatever FA we sign in 2019 and unless we drop TH and roll dollars into 2020.......they will be either capped out or close to it...so a Trade is probably the best way to get $$$ and a winning environment(possibly)..

Don’t get me wrong, I really like KP. That said, his tendency to take 18 foot jump shots is a weakness, not a strength. He is a unicorn. But this injury scares me and I worry we overvalue our assets leading up to a large offseason. Given his RFA status, the “value” on KP’s contract is limited, in essence he should be brought up to fair market value, meaning his contract will likely be net zero sum or negative value as he is forced to outperform that contract. Think of Hardaway at 10m a year vs 19m a year. Which contract has more value? AD’s contract at 24m is a stud contract, albeit injury concerns. If you can use KP as the centerpiece there, I think you have to. They basically play the same position anyway.

EwingsGlass wrote:Don’t get me wrong, I really like KP. That said, his tendency to take 18 foot jump shots is a weakness, not a strength. He is a unicorn. But this injury scares me and I worry we overvalue our assets leading up to a large offseason. Given his RFA status, the “value” on KP’s contract is limited, in essence he should be brought up to fair market value, meaning his contract will likely be net zero sum or negative value as he is forced to outperform that contract. Think of Hardaway at 10m a year vs 19m a year. Which contract has more value? AD’s contract at 24m is a stud contract, albeit injury concerns. If you can use KP as the centerpiece there, I think you have to. They basically play the same position anyway.

You are forgetting about the risks of running this plan and losing both KP and AD.
If Knicks propose a trade with KP and AD and/or Pels will turn it out (90% chance ) KP is gone also and nobody will blame him for bolting.
The 10% of getting AD instead of KP is not worth the risk.
This is pretty clear case when FO should fold the hand with bad outs-to-value outcome.
Of course we should present some package out without KP and 1st not 5 protected in case all other suitors will be out of the hand for some reasons. And then if anyone will over-bet just fold. The night is long and it will be many other great players to bet on.

We run the same risk even if we do not discuss KP for AD. KP will dump us in an instant if we offer him anything short of the max, injury concerns and all.

AD just came out and said its LA only for an extension.

NY is not in his thought process. Good News. Now we can keep building as planned. AD and Lebron wont get out of the Western Conference.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Never going to happen, which isn't a bad thing (I have fears of the Melo trade all over again).

Just out of interest, and assuming we could shift Lee in a separate deal, what would be the better trade, one centred around KP, or one centred around Knox and this years first?

So: KP+Tim Jr and whatever fo AD, then sign Irving in the offseason, giving you a team of:

C-AD
PF- whoever (maybe Zion if we got the first pick)
SF- Knox
SG- whoever (again maybe a player we draft)
PG- Irving

or a trade centred around Knox, this years first and Tim Jr or whatever salary, leaving you with:

C- AD
PF- KP
SF- maybe sign KD in the offseason
SG- whoever (Trier, Dotson)
PG- Mud/Frank

As the Knicks, if you can get AD without giving up a high first round pick, while keeping cap space for a max free agent this summer, you do it, though I do not think NOLA will. AD is a far superior centerpiece than KP. He scores like a lot more, rebounds a lot more, is a better and more willing passer, similar shotblocker. He may not have the same 3pt proficiency, but shoots a better effective percentage overall.
And this summer is when our centerpieces must get set, with max money going to KP, we will not have cap room for the next 4-5 years anyway.
I doubt KP and AD would mesh well on the same team. See the AD+Cousins experiment.

I feel the same way- I'd rather deal KP for AD and keep Knox and/or our first, as I think you can build a much better rounded team that fits together well.