Knicks · Anybody here preferring to stick with young guys if Ja turns out to be our pick? (page 1)

As someone previously said, signing Durant and Kyrie is a shortcut. Agree it makes sense to draft best talent but is it a closer decision between Ja over RJ if we really know Kyrie is coming? Can we really see Ja waiting 2-3 years with limited minutes playing behind Kyrie? I don't want Kyrie regardless - but it seems like a package deal with Durant... Ja seems like the guy you hand the keys to and let him go. I've moved on from the possible Ja vs DSJr situation, but still think Ja off the bench until Kyrie leaves/moves on may be a problem we don't want (and both seem to need the ball in their hands and don't play defense well enough to consider playing together).

I'd rather scrap the free agent point guard thing if Ja is the best talent when we pick - even if it means Durant won't come. Can always go for Kris Middleton-types and save some coin while letting a Ja take the floor with our young players. We could potentially lose 2 years of development with a divided roster (1/2 young and 1/2 vets) and be left with the same guys who are not much better after Durant and Kyrie leave in 2-3 years. Hopefully we get Zion so this is all a moot point. Know this is probably a very unpopular position but just don't see it working out... anybody else?

I believe the young guys will get pulled up by the vets. I think there would be some trade in some form to round out and balance the roster. Win now with "stars" and develop yoot for on floor performance and salary cap management and for trade. A long run would have both.
I wish I could roadmap a plan to support the above.

Ja will be the new John Wall with the Knicks. lots of stats and not much to show.

signing durant and kyrie is a shortcut to relevancy. they haven't had a chance like this in ages. why do people insist on wanting to go with young guys and hope they develop. i do whatever it takes to get them here and if they aren't drafting number 1 i'd trade the pick. development in the nba only works if you commit years to it.

also don't even get me started on signing middleton. he'd be another waste of money for the knicks.

Draft comes first... and this will clear the FA path.
Zion will make Durant/??? a more probable possibility.
The team will became the center of NBA craze with all money/brand implications.
Any other selection makes KD like FA a remote possibility with AD type trades as an unlikely option down the road.
If non of this will transpire we will need to do it conventional way.
Then Ja/Frank/Dot/Knox/Mitch became a possible staring lineup with Allan/DSJr/Trier/Von/Kornet bench
I will call this ultimate rebuild year 2 or knicks1284-going-off-the-rails year

jskinny35 wrote:As someone previously said, signing Durant and Kyrie is a shortcut. Agree it makes sense to draft best talent but is it a closer decision between Ja over RJ if we really know Kyrie is coming? Can we really see Ja waiting 2-3 years with limited minutes playing behind Kyrie? I don't want Kyrie regardless - but it seems like a package deal with Durant... Ja seems like the guy you hand the keys to and let him go. I've moved on from the possible Ja vs DSJr situation, but still think Ja off the bench until Kyrie leaves/moves on may be a problem we don't want (and both seem to need the ball in their hands and don't play defense well enough to consider playing together).

I'd rather scrap the free agent point guard thing if Ja is the best talent when we pick - even if it means Durant won't come. Can always go for Kris Middleton-types and save some coin while letting a Ja take the floor with our young players. We could potentially lose 2 years of development with a divided roster (1/2 young and 1/2 vets) and be left with the same guys who are not much better after Durant and Kyrie leave in 2-3 years. Hopefully we get Zion so this is all a moot point. Know this is probably a very unpopular position but just don't see it working out... anybody else?

Let's frame it differently: You have Clyde the Glide on your team, do you draft MJ or someone else (even if MJ turned out to be only as good as Clyde).

For me, having too much very good talent is a problem to welcome.

I'd prefer to stay away from Kyrie if possible, he doesn't seem like a player you can really build around. Not because of his physical talents, but because of his mental makeup.

I hear you - just think Zion is this year's MJ (sure thing) and Ja and RJ are both talented (but 2nd tier talents). Maybe the analogy is more if you have Clyde - do you pick a Mark Price (PG) or Andrew Toney (SG) if both are considered pretty as prospects?

I pick whoever is the best, either talent wise for my team, or whatever can get me more assets down the line.

Could the Yankees need more help in the bullpen? Sure, why not. Sign KD, Sign Kyrie, Sign Clyde, Sign MJ, Sign Bill Russell, Sign Wilt...

But Draft Zion. Please. It's been a loooooooooong time since 1985. NBA owes this franchise another frozen envelope, Debusschere desk-pounding moment. (Cue TripleThreat with a story about the fat ugly desk at the end of the bar, that nobody would marry, who's got no kids, but tells everyone how to raise theirs...)

I would hate to have to "settle" for Morant, mr. la-dee-da on defense... when you've got a legit monster who plays both ends, the sides, the roof, the walls...

Pick the BPA. If we get the 2nd pick then you pick Ja even if Kyrie comes here. You can then trade someone for better assets. Somebody will give you a 1st rounder and an All-Star for Ja or even more.

jrodmc wrote:Could the Yankees need more help in the bullpen? Sure, why not. Sign KD, Sign Kyrie, Sign Clyde, Sign MJ, Sign Bill Russell, Sign Wilt...

But Draft Zion. Please. It's been a loooooooooong time since 1985. NBA owes this franchise another frozen envelope, Debusschere desk-pounding moment. (Cue TripleThreat with a story about the fat ugly desk at the end of the bar, that nobody would marry, who's got no kids, but tells everyone how to raise theirs...)

I would hate to have to "settle" for Morant, mr. la-dee-da on defense... when you've got a legit monster who plays both ends, the sides, the roof, the walls...

Since 1985 the Knicks have never moved up in the lottery(Though I think Chi might have had the Knicks pick when they landed the #2 which was the LMA draft). While it's impossible to move up with the worst record. All we are asking is that we maintain the pick our record indicates. To move down again(even with the similar odds). I believe we should riot, and not accept this ****ery the NBA continues to provide us 😁.

arkrud wrote:Draft comes first... and this will clear the FA path.
Zion will make Durant/??? a more probable possibility.
The team will became the center of NBA craze with all money/brand implications.
Any other selection makes KD like FA a remote possibility with AD type trades as an unlikely option down the road.
If non of this will transpire we will need to do it conventional way.
Then Ja/Frank/Dot/Knox/Mitch became a possible staring lineup with Allan/DSJr/Trier/Von/Kornet bench
I will call this ultimate rebuild year 2 or knicks1284-going-off-the-rails year

exactly

martin wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:As someone previously said, signing Durant and Kyrie is a shortcut. Agree it makes sense to draft best talent but is it a closer decision between Ja over RJ if we really know Kyrie is coming? Can we really see Ja waiting 2-3 years with limited minutes playing behind Kyrie? I don't want Kyrie regardless - but it seems like a package deal with Durant... Ja seems like the guy you hand the keys to and let him go. I've moved on from the possible Ja vs DSJr situation, but still think Ja off the bench until Kyrie leaves/moves on may be a problem we don't want (and both seem to need the ball in their hands and don't play defense well enough to consider playing together).

I'd rather scrap the free agent point guard thing if Ja is the best talent when we pick - even if it means Durant won't come. Can always go for Kris Middleton-types and save some coin while letting a Ja take the floor with our young players. We could potentially lose 2 years of development with a divided roster (1/2 young and 1/2 vets) and be left with the same guys who are not much better after Durant and Kyrie leave in 2-3 years. Hopefully we get Zion so this is all a moot point. Know this is probably a very unpopular position but just don't see it working out... anybody else?

Let's frame it differently: You have Clyde the Glide on your team, do you draft MJ or someone else (even if MJ turned out to be only as good as Clyde).

For me, having too much very good talent is a problem to welcome.

Big differance between PG's and wings. Both Jordan and CLyde succede playing on or off the ball. Ja will not be effective off the ball

NYKBocker wrote:Pick the BPA. If we get the 2nd pick then you pick Ja even if Kyrie comes here. You can then trade someone for better assets. Somebody will give you a 1st rounder and an All-Star for Ja or even more.

Plus Kyrie is injury prone, so if you have Ja, you have insurance. Never turn down the chance of landing a star PG just because you might end up with two!

It's nice that we're even having this discussion - it might all blow up in our faces, but for a few weeks there's hope (or at least the possibility of hope).

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://mobile.twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1110701619543461889

Click here to view the Tweet

Imagine bailing now, after all the suffering, when we're just a month from the lottery and a few months from the off-season (at least wait until we luck out!)

newyorknewyork wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Could the Yankees need more help in the bullpen? Sure, why not. Sign KD, Sign Kyrie, Sign Clyde, Sign MJ, Sign Bill Russell, Sign Wilt...

But Draft Zion. Please. It's been a loooooooooong time since 1985. NBA owes this franchise another frozen envelope, Debusschere desk-pounding moment. (Cue TripleThreat with a story about the fat ugly desk at the end of the bar, that nobody would marry, who's got no kids, but tells everyone how to raise theirs...)

I would hate to have to "settle" for Morant, mr. la-dee-da on defense... when you've got a legit monster who plays both ends, the sides, the roof, the walls...

Since 1985 the Knicks have never moved up in the lottery(Though I think Chi might have had the Knicks pick when they landed the #2 which was the LMA draft). While it's impossible to move up with the worst record. All we are asking is that we maintain the pick our record indicates. To move down again(even with the similar odds). I believe we should riot, and not accept this ****ery the NBA continues to provide us 😁.

the fans deserve to move up.

The owner deserves to move down.

We'll see which one happens.

If we end up dropping to 4/5, honestly, that will be just one more crushing heart break, and my fandom dies a little more.

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:As someone previously said, signing Durant and Kyrie is a shortcut. Agree it makes sense to draft best talent but is it a closer decision between Ja over RJ if we really know Kyrie is coming? Can we really see Ja waiting 2-3 years with limited minutes playing behind Kyrie? I don't want Kyrie regardless - but it seems like a package deal with Durant... Ja seems like the guy you hand the keys to and let him go. I've moved on from the possible Ja vs DSJr situation, but still think Ja off the bench until Kyrie leaves/moves on may be a problem we don't want (and both seem to need the ball in their hands and don't play defense well enough to consider playing together).

I'd rather scrap the free agent point guard thing if Ja is the best talent when we pick - even if it means Durant won't come. Can always go for Kris Middleton-types and save some coin while letting a Ja take the floor with our young players. We could potentially lose 2 years of development with a divided roster (1/2 young and 1/2 vets) and be left with the same guys who are not much better after Durant and Kyrie leave in 2-3 years. Hopefully we get Zion so this is all a moot point. Know this is probably a very unpopular position but just don't see it working out... anybody else?

Let's frame it differently: You have Clyde the Glide on your team, do you draft MJ or someone else (even if MJ turned out to be only as good as Clyde).

For me, having too much very good talent is a problem to welcome.

Big differance between PG's and wings. Both Jordan and CLyde succede playing on or off the ball. Ja will not be effective off the ball

I don't know if that is accurate . He can hit the 3. He is willing to cut to the basket. He is willing to get in the paint and rebound in traffic. He has shown natural feel for the game with or without the ball.

Questions are there about his defense. Though he has all the physical tools to be a good defender. But he creates easy shots for other players continiously. That has been hard to come by here.

Him and Barrett would be in the discussion at 2 if that was the case. And Barret would provide almost the same questions even though he will play the wing. Barrett isn't a knock down shooter and will need the ball more to be effective. Morant looks like a better prospect to me though when all said and done.

I think he has the skill, talent, athleticsim, and feel for the game to make it work even if Kyrie was in the fold. Because skill and size wise they both can cover for either guard position.

I’m starting to get the feeling that we won’t sign anybody. Not because we don’t want to, but because none of our real options will represent an improvement good enough to tie yourself to a long contract. Durant is probably not coming and Irving isn’t coming alone. Leonard is probably going to the Clippers.

If that actually happens, I just hope we do get one of the first three picks so we can continue a slow rebuilding with Zion/Ja/Barret leading the pack.

Knicksfan wrote:I’m starting to get the feeling that we won’t sign anybody. Not because we don’t want to, but because none of our real options will represent an improvement good enough to tie yourself to a long contract. Durant is probably not coming and Irving isn’t coming alone. Leonard is probably going to the Clippers.

If that actually happens, I just hope we do get one of the first three picks so we can continue a slow rebuilding with Zion/Ja/Barret leading the pack.

You see what you still don't realize is we are not rebuilding. Rebuilding would require a young core that's improving every game, but what we have is a young core that is not getting better, and in some cases getting worse.

In 4 yrs we have had KP, Willy, Kuz, Grant, frank, thj, dotson, trier, mitch, langston galloway, knox, they should have all been on the knicks, and we should be on the Denver Nuggets level..thats development and building something.

But we lose so much and so often, that our young guys look lost, coaches get fired, presidents get fired, looker rooms get divided, no leadership, no accountability, and a owner who bans fans for asking him to retire and sell the team..

The culture is just as bad as it's ever been...probably as bad as the larry brown yrs

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:As someone previously said, signing Durant and Kyrie is a shortcut. Agree it makes sense to draft best talent but is it a closer decision between Ja over RJ if we really know Kyrie is coming? Can we really see Ja waiting 2-3 years with limited minutes playing behind Kyrie? I don't want Kyrie regardless - but it seems like a package deal with Durant... Ja seems like the guy you hand the keys to and let him go. I've moved on from the possible Ja vs DSJr situation, but still think Ja off the bench until Kyrie leaves/moves on may be a problem we don't want (and both seem to need the ball in their hands and don't play defense well enough to consider playing together).

I'd rather scrap the free agent point guard thing if Ja is the best talent when we pick - even if it means Durant won't come. Can always go for Kris Middleton-types and save some coin while letting a Ja take the floor with our young players. We could potentially lose 2 years of development with a divided roster (1/2 young and 1/2 vets) and be left with the same guys who are not much better after Durant and Kyrie leave in 2-3 years. Hopefully we get Zion so this is all a moot point. Know this is probably a very unpopular position but just don't see it working out... anybody else?

Let's frame it differently: You have Clyde the Glide on your team, do you draft MJ or someone else (even if MJ turned out to be only as good as Clyde).

For me, having too much very good talent is a problem to welcome.

Big differance between PG's and wings. Both Jordan and CLyde succede playing on or off the ball. Ja will not be effective off the ball

my example had nothing to do with position but rather talent and how much the player you are drafting has. BPA and you figure out the rest after.

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:I’m starting to get the feeling that we won’t sign anybody. Not because we don’t want to, but because none of our real options will represent an improvement good enough to tie yourself to a long contract. Durant is probably not coming and Irving isn’t coming alone. Leonard is probably going to the Clippers.

If that actually happens, I just hope we do get one of the first three picks so we can continue a slow rebuilding with Zion/Ja/Barret leading the pack.

You see what you still don't realize is we are not rebuilding. Rebuilding would require a young core that's improving every game, but what we have is a young core that is not getting better, and in some cases getting worse.

In 4 yrs we have had KP, Willy, Kuz, Grant, frank, thj, dotson, trier, mitch, langston galloway, knox, they should have all been on the knicks, and we should be on the Denver Nuggets level..thats development and building something.

But we lose so much and so often, that our young guys look lost, coaches get fired, presidents get fired, looker rooms get divided, no leadership, no accountability, and a owner who bans fans for asking him to retire and sell the team..

The culture is just as bad as it's ever been...probably as bad as the larry brown yrs

Larry Brown was here for one year.
One.
Anucha Brown Sanders was Fired in January of 2006.
Larry Brown was fired in June of 2006.
In this environment Team President Isiah Thomas as harassing Sanders prior to her firing.
In this environment the knicks won 23 games. We had Eddy curry on the roster and thus we had in that moment:

A turmoil at the top
Losing on the court
A salary cap that was 40% more than the next team (look it up)
had traded picks for Curry.

When a dog poops in the house some dog owners grab the dog and put their noses in the poop. WHen Brown was fired, and paid 18mm for his ONE YEAR, Dolan made Team President Isiah Thomas head coach.
Besides that, this is what Isiah was going thru:

Several days after her firing in January 2006, Browne Sanders filed a sexual harassment lawsuit against New York Knicks general manager Isiah Thomas and Madison Square Garden (the corporation which owns the Knicks and several other New York sports franchises). The suit claimed that Thomas sexually harassed her, starting with his hiring by the Knicks in December 2003. It further claimed that her firing was in retaliation for her complaints about the alleged harassment. The lawsuit alleged that after Browne Sanders' lawyer told Madison Square Garden of her complaint, Madison Square Garden forced her out of work while it investigated the situation. At the conclusion of the investigation, Madison Square Garden fired Browne Sanders, allegedly because of "an inability to fulfill professional responsibilities."

The lawsuit sought unspecified damages, and reinstatement to her former position with the Knicks.

In August 2006, the lawsuit was expanded to include Knicks and Cablevision owner James Dolan as a defendant.

On October 2, 2007, the jury returned a verdict finding Thomas and Madison Square Garden liable for sexual harassment. The jury also levied $11.6 million in punitive damages against MSG, but not Thomas. The defendants indicated that they would appeal the verdict.[9] However, on December 10, 2007, the Knicks announced that the lawsuit had been settled for an unspecified amount,[10] later revealed to be $11.5 million.

[11]

Besides your rant leaving out any possible positive development of any knick player by any measure or the lack of any turmoil in the locker room, the swift expulsion of KP, and that cap space/7 first round picks in 5 years and you compare the toxic environment of "The larry brown years" to this past season?

Do you even question why you don't get respected by some here?
Again, I defer to my signature: