Knicks · We deserve..... (page 1)

I thought we set the record straight as some of us are feeling victimized by Tank legend and lore:
Forget Ewing for a moment.

Timmy Duncan. It is assumed SAS tanked. They did. Sort of. Fact is David Robinson was lost early in the season. Did they mortgage the future or resign to the opportunity? I think the latter.
Final bad four 1997:
w-l
Grizz 14-68 0.0%
celtic 15-67 27.51%
Spurs 20-62 21.6%
Nuggs 21-61 16.5%
76ers 22-60 12.24%

Draft order after lottery.....Remember Toronto and Vancouver were recent expansion teams that had no chance at the top pick. Grizz were destined to fall to 4th.
Nugs fell a spot, 76ers rose three, Spurs Two.

SAS Duncan
Philly KVH
Boston Billups
Grizz Antonio Daniels
Nuggs Tony Battie

Shyt happens. Tanking more often did not pay then, or now. Spurs might have held Robinson out longer than needed but Celtics shamlessly tanked with Pitino.

http://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_...

1996-97 Boston Celtics

One of the most notorious years for tanking was 1997. It’s widely believed that the San Antonio Spurs tanked the season by holding out David Robinson longer than necessary to secure a higher draft pick, which became the most coveted player available, Tim Duncan. In fact, to many, this is one of the most incredibly successful tank jobs in NBA history, in part because the Spurs were already a very good team, and they have won four titles and counting with Duncan leading the way. But to our knowledge, no one involved has admitted that the Spurs were tanking.

The same year, though, the Boston Celtics did indeed tank, according to longtime Celtic M.L. Carr, who coached the team from 1995 to 1997. In 1996-97, the Celtics fell from 33 wins the previous season to 15 wins.

According to Mark Cofman of the Boston Herald, in 2001:

Carr suggested his last season as Celtics coach in 1996-97, during which the team suffered through a franchise-worst 15-67 record, was a tank job designed to deliver the incoming coach (Rick Pitino) with strong draft position. "That was part of the orchestration," said Carr, an obvious indictment of the entire organization and its part in encouraging a losing season in an attempt to get the first overall pick (Tim Duncan). As it turned out, the Celtics lost out on Duncan and settled for the third and sixth overall picks.

Pitino’s tenure as Boston coach would be a great disappointment, and he often lamented that he had taken the job with the expectation that the Celtics would get Duncan.

i've said this here before - we the fans deserve the top pick. for almost 20 years, this franchise has been a joke to root for.

The owner, however, deserves to have the pick drop to 5 and select another dud. He is a douche.

NO COLLUSION....NO CONSPIRACY..
ON THE LOTTERY

franco12 wrote:i've said this here before - we the fans deserve the top pick. for almost 20 years, this franchise has been a joke to root for.

The owner, however, deserves to have the pick drop to 5 and select another dud. He is a douche.

Suffering does not increase math.
We don't deserve to suffer but we choose.
We choose this team. We offer our support.
I live in NC, I can choose the Hornets. I choose not.
I can choose the Panthers, I choose the Giants.

We prefer, we pray, we want. But we don't deserve. If the system is not rigged, we get Math.

We deserve some luck once in a while

Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:i've said this here before - we the fans deserve the top pick. for almost 20 years, this franchise has been a joke to root for.

The owner, however, deserves to have the pick drop to 5 and select another dud. He is a douche.

Suffering does not increase math.
We don't deserve to suffer but we choose.
We choose this team. We offer our support.
I live in NC, I can choose the Hornets. I choose not.
I can choose the Panthers, I choose the Giants.

We prefer, we pray, we want. But we don't deserve. If the system is not rigged, we get Math.

I am not sure that the Cavs got math after LeBron left. Three #1 overall picks?

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:i've said this here before - we the fans deserve the top pick. for almost 20 years, this franchise has been a joke to root for.

The owner, however, deserves to have the pick drop to 5 and select another dud. He is a douche.

Suffering does not increase math.
We don't deserve to suffer but we choose.
We choose this team. We offer our support.
I live in NC, I can choose the Hornets. I choose not.
I can choose the Panthers, I choose the Giants.

We prefer, we pray, we want. But we don't deserve. If the system is not rigged, we get Math.

I am not sure that the Cavs got math after LeBron left. Three #1 overall picks?

Off the top of my head, at least one of those #1 picks was a future first they traded for. I think they took on Baron Davis' contract from the Clippers and ended up getting Kyrie Irving.

Just wait and see. Not like we are guaranteed the worst record. Tie breakers and all, I want to assume that we are not just gonna go ahead and have ourselves a nice little surprise and win a few games to close the season. It would be foolish however. Not like we haven;t done this previouly.

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:i've said this here before - we the fans deserve the top pick. for almost 20 years, this franchise has been a joke to root for.

The owner, however, deserves to have the pick drop to 5 and select another dud. He is a douche.

Suffering does not increase math.
We don't deserve to suffer but we choose.
We choose this team. We offer our support.
I live in NC, I can choose the Hornets. I choose not.
I can choose the Panthers, I choose the Giants.

We prefer, we pray, we want. But we don't deserve. If the system is not rigged, we get Math.

I am not sure that the Cavs got math after LeBron left. Three #1 overall picks?

Off the top of my head, at least one of those #1 picks was a future first they traded for. I think they took on Baron Davis' contract from the Clippers and ended up getting Kyrie Irving.

I think you are right. Still, three number ones in 4 years after Lebron left was pretty amazing. Also, they got their hometown guy in Lebron. The Knicks have 1985 in their pocket but that was 34 years ago.

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:i've said this here before - we the fans deserve the top pick. for almost 20 years, this franchise has been a joke to root for.

The owner, however, deserves to have the pick drop to 5 and select another dud. He is a douche.

Suffering does not increase math.
We don't deserve to suffer but we choose.
We choose this team. We offer our support.
I live in NC, I can choose the Hornets. I choose not.
I can choose the Panthers, I choose the Giants.

We prefer, we pray, we want. But we don't deserve. If the system is not rigged, we get Math.

I am not sure that the Cavs got math after LeBron left. Three #1 overall picks?

Off the top of my head, at least one of those #1 picks was a future first they traded for. I think they took on Baron Davis' contract from the Clippers and ended up getting Kyrie Irving.

I think you are right. Still, three number ones in 4 years after Lebron left was pretty amazing. Also, they got their hometown guy in Lebron. The Knicks have 1985 in their pocket but that was 34 years ago.

And if we get the #1 in this lottery, they will be talking about dented, weighted ping pong balls for the next 20 years.

jrodmc wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:i've said this here before - we the fans deserve the top pick. for almost 20 years, this franchise has been a joke to root for.

The owner, however, deserves to have the pick drop to 5 and select another dud. He is a douche.

Suffering does not increase math.
We don't deserve to suffer but we choose.
We choose this team. We offer our support.
I live in NC, I can choose the Hornets. I choose not.
I can choose the Panthers, I choose the Giants.

We prefer, we pray, we want. But we don't deserve. If the system is not rigged, we get Math.

I am not sure that the Cavs got math after LeBron left. Three #1 overall picks?

Off the top of my head, at least one of those #1 picks was a future first they traded for. I think they took on Baron Davis' contract from the Clippers and ended up getting Kyrie Irving.

I think you are right. Still, three number ones in 4 years after Lebron left was pretty amazing. Also, they got their hometown guy in Lebron. The Knicks have 1985 in their pocket but that was 34 years ago.

And if we get the #1 in this lottery, they will be talking about dented, weighted ping pong balls for the next 20 years.

wouldn't that be fun? we can tell them to kiss our collective orange-and-blue ass for 20 years

Marv wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:i've said this here before - we the fans deserve the top pick. for almost 20 years, this franchise has been a joke to root for.

The owner, however, deserves to have the pick drop to 5 and select another dud. He is a douche.

Suffering does not increase math.
We don't deserve to suffer but we choose.
We choose this team. We offer our support.
I live in NC, I can choose the Hornets. I choose not.
I can choose the Panthers, I choose the Giants.

We prefer, we pray, we want. But we don't deserve. If the system is not rigged, we get Math.

I am not sure that the Cavs got math after LeBron left. Three #1 overall picks?

Off the top of my head, at least one of those #1 picks was a future first they traded for. I think they took on Baron Davis' contract from the Clippers and ended up getting Kyrie Irving.

I think you are right. Still, three number ones in 4 years after Lebron left was pretty amazing. Also, they got their hometown guy in Lebron. The Knicks have 1985 in their pocket but that was 34 years ago.

And if we get the #1 in this lottery, they will be talking about dented, weighted ping pong balls for the next 20 years.

wouldn't that be fun? we can tell them to kiss our collective orange-and-blue ass for 20 years

No.
If we will miss on Zion and KD but still build the winning team over years we "can tell them to kiss our collective orange-and-blue ass for 20 years".
If we will get lucky with Zion and FAs they will just tell "you are lucky but still no good."
Even worth if we will get lucky but f..ck it up as with Patrick. This will be a gigantic joke.

arkrud wrote:

Marv wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:i've said this here before - we the fans deserve the top pick. for almost 20 years, this franchise has been a joke to root for.

The owner, however, deserves to have the pick drop to 5 and select another dud. He is a douche.

Suffering does not increase math.
We don't deserve to suffer but we choose.
We choose this team. We offer our support.
I live in NC, I can choose the Hornets. I choose not.
I can choose the Panthers, I choose the Giants.

We prefer, we pray, we want. But we don't deserve. If the system is not rigged, we get Math.

I am not sure that the Cavs got math after LeBron left. Three #1 overall picks?

Off the top of my head, at least one of those #1 picks was a future first they traded for. I think they took on Baron Davis' contract from the Clippers and ended up getting Kyrie Irving.

I think you are right. Still, three number ones in 4 years after Lebron left was pretty amazing. Also, they got their hometown guy in Lebron. The Knicks have 1985 in their pocket but that was 34 years ago.

And if we get the #1 in this lottery, they will be talking about dented, weighted ping pong balls for the next 20 years.

wouldn't that be fun? we can tell them to kiss our collective orange-and-blue ass for 20 years

No.
If we will miss on Zion and KD but still build the winning team over years we "can tell them to kiss our collective orange-and-blue ass for 20 years".
If we will get lucky with Zion and FAs they will just tell "you are lucky but still no good."
Even worth if we will get lucky but f..ck it up as with Patrick. This will be a gigantic joke.

Lucky yes. Work the math. Cleveland post Lebron tanked because they had to. Kyrie, Wiggins and Bennett was not a good haul. So while they had opportunity, perhaps they did not do the prep work. That Wiggins was the centerpiece to get Love, who enabled a championship then it was worth it. Bennett was awful.

Im moving into Rainman territory saying its not just the draft, but a combination of draft, FA, and Trades. Obvious stuff. In the ewing era we traded too much youth. But when we "developed" we got Starks and Mase, who turned to LJ. Cartwright turned to Oak, and turned into Camby. That was a good transfer of talent over a long stretch of time. Trades are good too!!!! We won't lose them all! LOL!!

arkrud wrote:

Marv wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:i've said this here before - we the fans deserve the top pick. for almost 20 years, this franchise has been a joke to root for.

The owner, however, deserves to have the pick drop to 5 and select another dud. He is a douche.

Suffering does not increase math.
We don't deserve to suffer but we choose.
We choose this team. We offer our support.
I live in NC, I can choose the Hornets. I choose not.
I can choose the Panthers, I choose the Giants.

We prefer, we pray, we want. But we don't deserve. If the system is not rigged, we get Math.

I am not sure that the Cavs got math after LeBron left. Three #1 overall picks?

Off the top of my head, at least one of those #1 picks was a future first they traded for. I think they took on Baron Davis' contract from the Clippers and ended up getting Kyrie Irving.

I think you are right. Still, three number ones in 4 years after Lebron left was pretty amazing. Also, they got their hometown guy in Lebron. The Knicks have 1985 in their pocket but that was 34 years ago.

And if we get the #1 in this lottery, they will be talking about dented, weighted ping pong balls for the next 20 years.

wouldn't that be fun? we can tell them to kiss our collective orange-and-blue ass for 20 years

No.
If we will miss on Zion and KD but still build the winning team over years we "can tell them to kiss our collective orange-and-blue ass for 20 years".
If we will get lucky with Zion and FAs they will just tell "you are lucky but still no good."
Even worth if we will get lucky but f..ck it up as with Patrick. This will be a gigantic joke.

F..ck it up as with Patrick? Going to the Finals twice qualifies as a gigantic joke to you?
We get Zion and your "they", whoever that is, can still kiss my collective orange and blue ass.

As suffering fans we deserve a break

However the basketball gods might take a look at what we're doing and say they don't want to reward that

We shouldn’t get our hopes up for Zion, we should just know we are getting a top 5 pick. If we get the number one pick no doubt we keep the pick. Don’t be surprised if we don’t, we move it with frank and Knox plus our 2020 1st for AD I don’t think any other team can offer that package .... injury prone AD is not worth Zion. No gm in there right mind would trade Zion.

Pels also know they won’t get back equal value for a guy that doesn’t want to be there.... they don’t want a jimmy butler situation.

If we get Zion or AD it will probably seal the Deal for Durant.

Next year if we don’t get the number one.

Mitch
AD
Durant
Dot
Smith

With number one

Mitch
Zion
Durant
Dotson
Kyrie

Either way you look at it, we will go into next year contenders in the east.
You could tweak our free agents or trades and we still will contend.

Mitch is a superstar in the making. He already is the best shot blocker in the nba, a great rebounder, and probably the most athletic center in the nba..... he’s not even 21!!!!

The problem with getting AD, and I do like the idea is the fact we gave up assets to clear cap space. Its one thing to trade cap players and Rookies/picks but we sort of double pay. We can sign two max players. We can't if we bring in AD without trading cap out.

Nalod is partial to rookies and hard to suggest trading them. Mitch can be a big trading chip toward AD. Pels have to consider cap space as a benefit of a trade.
We have to consider AD's salary as limiting what can be done.

Nalod wrote:The problem with getting AD, and I do like the idea is the fact we gave up assets to clear cap space. Its one thing to trade cap players and Rookies/picks but we sort of double pay. We can sign two max players. We can't if we bring in AD without trading cap out.

Nalod is partial to rookies and hard to suggest trading them. Mitch can be a big trading chip toward AD. Pels have to consider cap space as a benefit of a trade.
We have to consider AD's salary as limiting what can be done.

Mitch to me is off limits, I too would like to see us keep the rookies even if we ended 2-5
AD to me is too injury prone. I just think our front office is pressured to make a big splash and can see them making the panic move to get AD if we land 2-5.

Mitch to me has future superstar written all over him. I wanna see the hook shot he’s been working on!

I’m really hoping for Zion or Ja I think both have separated themselves from the pack.

Could you imagine how good our interior defense would be with Zion and Mitch having a block party every night or the two man game of Ja and Mitch... it kills me watching how many times our pg’s miss mitch for wide open dunks/ally oops . Smith can get it to him sometimes but man mudiay has tunnel vision/ball hog dribble around and take a contested mid range fade-away. It would be nice to see a pass first pg set our players up with easy shots.

Regardless of the tough season, I haven’t been this excited about our future in a long time, F U C K KP that duche.

What Knick fans deserve the most are a WINNING experience head-coach that 85% of the Knick fan base want to give an extension contract to each time he's in his final contract season !!!

Deserve is a big word and totally subjective. Moreso, it is based off of expectations and expectations are known to disappoint. I don't want to be disappointed so I am not having any this time. Clean slate. Now, could we do anything to ^ our odds hypotheticaly? Probably not unless group pray counts. It has actually been shown through some published study(ies)to affect the outcome. So we could do that I suppose. Otherwise this might become a jinx tread. Or the anti-jinx. You decide.

I have the very bad feeling that Zion will go to a loaded team like Boston - some team with a single digit chance at #1.